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Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:55 lichter wrote: Life did have excellent fungals and Infestor retention. It was the only thing keeping him in the game yeah he didnt lose an infestor for like 20 min | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:51 Havik_ wrote: Meh. I just feel like Terrans have been stubborn since the Ghost Nerf in Jan/February. They nerfed Snipe and stopped making them when EMP still pwns Infestors. Terran's have been using Ghosts to beat HT since the game came out but are just now bringing them back into TvZ after almost a year? I don't get it. Nah, gumiho's econ was huge, he was pumping like 5 ghosts at a time and getting 4 nukes, for terran to have so much econ is really really rare, also, emp is quite bad vs infestors, they are enormous, gotta use snipe. | ||
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DidYuhim
Ukraine1905 Posts
I do know that GuMiho could just switch to Vikings and kill off the BL's, but he didn't, right? | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:53 bo1b wrote: Can link a single game where mvp played better then that vs an opponent who was playing as well as life was playing? I loved MVP. But he is the main reason Terran keeps on getting nerfed.=.= MVP first guy to use mass ghost and rape Ultras+Infestor+BL in Metalopolis against July. Blizz deemed it too powerful and nerfed sniper heavily. Blizz was supposed to buff raven and nerf creep spread. Blizz was watching IEM and MVP just rape all the top Euro zergs(Nerchio,Vortix) with his banshee+ hellions. Blizz then decide not to do anything. | ||
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ZjiublingZ
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:51 Havik_ wrote: Meh. I just feel like Terrans have been stubborn since the Ghost Nerf in Jan/February. They nerfed Snipe and stopped making them when EMP still pwns Infestors. Terran's have been using Ghosts to beat HT since the game came out but are just now bringing them back into TvZ after almost a year? I don't get it. There's no doubt the Ghosts were strong that game. But that first engagement that Life goes for, with his BL/Infestor/Corruptor/Ling composition outside of Gumiho's main/natural. What happens if Life has all those resources he had in Corruptors (of which he had at least 8 of), in either Brood Lords or Banelings or Infestors. Because there was literally 1 Viking. Does Life just win in that position if he plays it correctly? I don't know, but the game was close after that, and it certainly would have been even closer if he had the correct composition. | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + IdrA's been screaming that Terrans should be using ghosts in the late game, and I'm starting to think he's right. | ||
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Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:56 DidYuhim wrote: Let's be honest, Life didn't play his best. He has serious problems with Zerg lategame control. He kept massing Corrupters against massed M&M army, which didn't do him much good. I do know that GuMiho could just switch to Vikings and kill off the BL's, but he didn't, right? He could have earlier but he never went over 2 starports. he upgraded +1 ship weapons but then like you said Life overmade corruptors so making vikings would be pointless | ||
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Xpace
United States2209 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:53 bo1b wrote: Can link a single game where mvp played better then that vs an opponent who was playing as well as life was playing? That's pretty objective right there; find a Mvp TvZ on Entombed where he focuses on drops/Ghosts? I don't think such a game exists. Edit: I don't know why but I'm only remembering mech play; the last time he played a similar style was like... Bel'Shir Beach? Super old games lol. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:57 AgentW wrote: Did we just witness the future of late game TvZ? Seemed pretty effective and Gumiho wasn't exactly dodging fungals. Life wasn't looking too good either, but the quartering of Life's defense was very well done. + Show Spoiler + IdrA's been screaming that Terrans should be using ghosts in the late game, and I'm starting to think he's right. He also said that Protoss should use more Carriers late-game at BWC. lol. | ||
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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:56 DidYuhim wrote: Let's be honest, Life didn't play his best. He has serious problems with Zerg lategame control. He kept massing Corrupters against massed M&M army, which didn't do him much good. I do know that GuMiho could just switch to Vikings and kill off the BL's, but he didn't, right? I think it was more of a thing where Life didn't really know how to handle it. He massed Corruptors because ALL terrans switch into Vikings to deal with Brood Lords. So when GuMiho didn't, it messed Life up. Or at least that's what I would guess. | ||
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
I think you might be looking for Axiom. Or Acer. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:57 Xpace wrote: That's pretty objective right there; find a Mvp TvZ on Entombed where he focuses on drops/Ghosts? I don't think such a game exists. I don't think a game exists of mvp playing tvz on any map using any style with more skill displayed then in that game. That is my opinion though  | ||
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TommyP
United States6231 Posts
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yoshi245
United States2974 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:52 GARcher wrote: The ghost play only worked because the first time Life brought no detection other than infestors. You can see the second time when life brought an overseer with him, Gumiho couldn't land any emps. And whoever thinks that Gumiho won because he found a new way to play TvZ needs to rewatch the game. Life went for a risky low econ early infestor play that got shut down. That's why Gumiho was able to secure a lead and win. This exactly. It's not Gumiho was bringing a new style, he just came with something Life was unprepared for. I figure Life would be prepared for a mech style Terran since he knows Gumiho is capable of mech(although not a good map to do it in for Emtombed). Gumiho's overall strats were sorta High Risk High Reward since he was constantly throwing bio away in hopes of sniping hatches, infestors, and important tech structures. If Life defended those better and made more overseers at an earlier time, Gumiho would have been shut down and possibly have lost. But that's all stipulation and what-if at this point. I am just glad he won, but don't be surprised next time you see Life in a ZvT be prepared for this style. It's not easy to do unless you have some great multi tasking skills like Gumiho to even pull off. | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:57 ZAiNs wrote: He also said that Protoss should use more Carriers late-game at BWC. lol. Uh... well.... yeah...  | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:56 DidYuhim wrote: Let's be honest, Life didn't play his best. He has serious problems with Zerg lategame control. He kept massing Corrupters against massed M&M army, which didn't do him much good. I do know that GuMiho could just switch to Vikings and kill off the BL's, but he didn't, right? It looked intentional. Knowing Gumiho was going pure bio and having a huge infestor count, Life repeatedly tried to clear out all of Gumi's medivacs before fungaling. Didn't work out though | ||
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GARcher
Canada294 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:57 AgentW wrote: Did we just witness the future of late game TvZ? Seemed pretty effective and Gumiho wasn't exactly dodging fungals. Life wasn't looking too good either, but the quartering of Life's defense was very well done. + Show Spoiler + IdrA's been screaming that Terrans should be using ghosts in the late game, and I'm starting to think he's right. Idra doesn't play Terran and he thinks Marines can counter banelings. | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:57 Xpace wrote: That's pretty objective right there; find a Mvp TvZ on Entombed where he focuses on drops/Ghosts? I don't think such a game exists. MVP never did that. But MVP is the first guy who pioneered mass ghost in TvZ late game. After that game against July,Korean ladder was filled with late game TvZ mass ghosts+siege tanks+ vikings with some planetary support. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:57 AgentW wrote: Did we just witness the future of late game TvZ? Seemed pretty effective and Gumiho wasn't exactly dodging fungals. Life wasn't looking too good either, but the quartering of Life's defense was very well done. + Show Spoiler + IdrA's been screaming that Terrans should be using ghosts in the late game, and I'm starting to think he's right. Not really. Life played very poorly for his standards. He had a bad opening that was directly countered, never took map control, responded late to almost every single drop, overmade corruptors, did not scout his opponent's base with overseers or changelings, was constantly caught out of position by the ghosts, and forgot to get baneling speed. Basically he played against all the strengths that made him so good at ZvT, and Gumiho made him look like a mediocre patchzerg. | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
On November 24 2012 14:57 Shellshock1122 wrote: He could have earlier but he never went over 2 starports. he upgraded +1 ship weapons but then like you said Life overmade corruptors so making vikings would be pointless TBH, I think it's time to forget vikings altogether and try massing ghosts, they just never win, I can't even remember the last time vikings beat zerg air with like 10+ corruptors. | ||
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