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opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
October 31 2012 14:10 GMT
#1281
On October 31 2012 23:09 Grumbels wrote:
hyun was a brood war a-teamer guys o.o

so was bisu
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
ilikeLIONZ
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany427 Posts
October 31 2012 14:10 GMT
#1282
ZvP is incredibly frustrating and boring to watch! also HotS won't change that, ppl can still mass bl/infestor and not use the new units at all..
nice design blizzard.

i cheered for hero, he was definitely the better player in my eyes (+bias).. but ye, i guess the better player won *cough*
FakeDeath
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia6060 Posts
October 31 2012 14:10 GMT
#1283
On October 31 2012 23:04 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2012 23:01 shadymmj wrote:
of course soulkey isn't good. there is no need to state the obvious.

but if hero were that much better, he'd be the one advancing. after watching players like parting and by.sun, do you honestly think hero will stand a chance with this kind of sloppy play in the ro16?


sloppy play? what's sloppy he was transitioning from getting 6 pooled lol. If he's playing sloppy I wonder what you would call foreigners play :O


Well duh Hero was playing sloppy in Game 2 and Game 3.

Game 2:
The thing is with HerO is he did so many warp prism harass which is good but he did not have a strong standing army.
He tried to be too cute with all those warp prism harass and Soulkey decided it was enough and just go fucking killed him with the Bls+Infestor+Queen and spine crawler push.Hero 5th,4th,3th,2th and main base all go down uncontested.
He then tried to transition into void rays against 24 infestors???LOL
Void rays seriously? Better off making templars or collosus.

Game 3:
6 Pool and HerO defended it normally.Soulkey slightly ahead.
HerO proceeded to go into templar tech and tried to push into Soulkey base.
Couldn't because of infestors camping behind.
Soulkey saw that HerO composition was heavy on zealots and went mass roach/infestors to go kill him.
End of story.
Play your best
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-31 14:15:00
October 31 2012 14:11 GMT
#1284
On October 31 2012 23:10 ilikeLIONZ wrote:
ZvP is incredibly frustrating and boring to watch! also HotS won't change that, ppl can still mass bl/infestor and not use the new units at all..
nice design blizzard.


Well there's the incredibly dynamic Tempest coming in, that will revolutionize the way we see Esports. It'll be edge of your seat stuff.

Snusmumriken
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden1717 Posts
October 31 2012 14:12 GMT
#1285
On October 31 2012 23:07 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2012 23:05 Snusmumriken wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:59 Sedzz wrote:
It's funny because the patch did not affect ZvP one single bit.

Seriously whiners, just shut the fuck up. HerO lost, deal with it. No need to discredit soulkey as a player because you're a fanboy.



Im not a fan of hero and I dont care about soulkey either way but you have no fucking clue what youre talking about. Faster overlords means more scouting means much safer means you can eco up much quicker (or defend if need be).

I play terran and what stands out the most to me is how ridiculously boring zvp is. Statistically you either win with some trickery as protoss in early or midgame, or you lose to the massing zerg amoeba.

Remember the days when zerg had to be one base up to be even with terran and protoss? Well those are long gone now.


zerg can be a base down or two or three and still win lol.


I know its almost like blizzard is intentionally shitting all over wol in order to make hots seem at least somewhat appealing.
Amove for Aiur
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
October 31 2012 14:13 GMT
#1286
On October 31 2012 23:12 Snusmumriken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2012 23:07 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On October 31 2012 23:05 Snusmumriken wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:59 Sedzz wrote:
It's funny because the patch did not affect ZvP one single bit.

Seriously whiners, just shut the fuck up. HerO lost, deal with it. No need to discredit soulkey as a player because you're a fanboy.



Im not a fan of hero and I dont care about soulkey either way but you have no fucking clue what youre talking about. Faster overlords means more scouting means much safer means you can eco up much quicker (or defend if need be).

I play terran and what stands out the most to me is how ridiculously boring zvp is. Statistically you either win with some trickery as protoss in early or midgame, or you lose to the massing zerg amoeba.

Remember the days when zerg had to be one base up to be even with terran and protoss? Well those are long gone now.


zerg can be a base down or two or three and still win lol.


I know its almost like blizzard is intentionally shitting all over wol in order to make hots seem at least somewhat appealing.

My god this man is onto something it's all a conspiracy the patch paves the way to hots :O.
Glorious SEA doto
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
October 31 2012 14:14 GMT
#1287
On October 31 2012 23:01 tomatriedes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2012 22:56 liberate71 wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:55 tomatriedes wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:47 liberate71 wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:44 tomatriedes wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:35 habeck wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:33 InoyouS2 wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:31 Darkhoarse wrote:
That was ridiculous. If a protoss proxy two gates he can never recover no matter what if it fails. If a zerg six pools he just transitions out without doing any damage...


Well, to be honest it screwed up HerO's build quite a bit, but yeah, the other two races have it sooooo tough against Zerg nowadays.


well i dont think that 6pool failed, everything went quite good for SOULkey


That's the problem- a zerg can 6 pool, throw away all their lings without killing a single worker and still end up economically ahead.



Cause HerO had to fuck about microing probes and then starting a normal gateway expand cause he went FFE...


And do you really think pros only go FFE because they're too lazy to do anything else? One gate expand just isn't effective which is part of the problem.


Did he HAVE to expand? Soulkey didnt... lol :|


Because you're going to know that in advance? It's so stupid when people think pros do things for no reason. They have to FFE because if they don't when zergs play a normal build they're just so behind. Anyway nothing's going to change in this matchup now- just gotta wait for HOTS.


So Soulkey Meta'd HerO and countered the predictable PvZ Entombed build and that makes zerg imba?

He took a calculated risk - he didnt go for 6 pool with a guarantee he'd be ahead
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
NovemberstOrm
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada16217 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-31 14:17:59
October 31 2012 14:15 GMT
#1288
On October 31 2012 23:10 FakeDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2012 23:04 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On October 31 2012 23:01 shadymmj wrote:
of course soulkey isn't good. there is no need to state the obvious.

but if hero were that much better, he'd be the one advancing. after watching players like parting and by.sun, do you honestly think hero will stand a chance with this kind of sloppy play in the ro16?


sloppy play? what's sloppy he was transitioning from getting 6 pooled lol. If he's playing sloppy I wonder what you would call foreigners play :O


Well duh Hero was playing sloppy in Game 2 and Game 3.

Game 2:
The thing is with HerO is he did so many warp prism harass which is good but he did not have a strong standing army.
He tried to be too cute with all those warp prism harass and Soulkey decided it was enough and just go fucking killed him with the Bls+Infestor+Queen and spine crawler push.Hero 5th,4th,3th,2th and main base all go down uncontested.
He then tried to transition into void rays against 24 infestors???LOL
Void rays seriously? Better off making templars or collosus.

Game 3:
6 Pool and HerO defended it normally.Soulkey slightly ahead.
HerO proceeded to go into templar tech and tried to push into Soulkey base.
Couldn't because of infestors camping behind.
Soulkey saw that HerO composition was heavy on zealots and went mass roach/infestors to go kill him.
End of story.

Dude that's not sloppy play LOL please go Google the definition of sloppy. If you're going to reply please understand what "sloppy" means

Strong standing army? how else are you supposed to beat brood lord infestor? you can't unless your opponent messes up and his army gets vortexed, it's impossible to win with a protoss 200/200 army vs zerg 200/200 army if the composition is right for the zerg which was in this case.
Moderatorlickypiddy
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
October 31 2012 14:17 GMT
#1289
On October 31 2012 23:10 ilikeLIONZ wrote:
ZvP is incredibly frustrating and boring to watch! also HotS won't change that, ppl can still mass bl/infestor and not use the new units at all..
nice design blizzard.

Tempest is a direct counter to that unit comp.

Please don't say "tempests suck", Blizzard will buff them until they do their job correctly.
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
October 31 2012 14:18 GMT
#1290
So fun watching Zergs defend their race
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-31 14:18:50
October 31 2012 14:18 GMT
#1291
On October 31 2012 23:10 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2012 23:09 Grumbels wrote:
hyun was a brood war a-teamer guys o.o

so was bisu


hey

don't talk bad about my beesuit

his time will come
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
October 31 2012 14:20 GMT
#1292
On October 31 2012 23:18 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2012 23:10 opterown wrote:
On October 31 2012 23:09 Grumbels wrote:
hyun was a brood war a-teamer guys o.o

so was bisu


hey

don't talk bad about my beesuit

his time will come

Too late by.rain has taken his place bisu and best are soooooo last game.
Glorious SEA doto
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-31 14:24:28
October 31 2012 14:21 GMT
#1293
On October 31 2012 23:03 Serelitz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2012 22:57 NightOfTheDead wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:50 Serelitz wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:47 Fusilero wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:47 Cuce wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:37 LimitSEA wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:34 liberate71 wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:33 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Lol when I first opened this thread I was on a page that was joking about the seeds this season being no better than foreigners xD I guess Soulkey's seed is closer to naniwa than the standard foreigner ones


As in he's made himself easy to dislike?

All he's really done is play zerg and beat a Liquid player in ZvP. The state of the match up can't really be his fault, can it? He played well against Maru, and I won't put his victory against HerO exclusively to balance, though it played it's role for sure.



well people are not hating on soulkey. they whine about pvz.

Quite a few people are blatantly indicating that soulkey has just been carried by his race which is as silly as in WC3 when people accused players like lucifron of being carried by orc.


No doubt Soulkey is a good player but his wins vs Hero took pretty much no skill at all. He defended against harass very poorly on Whirlwind and just sat on 3.5 bases until he was invincible. Game 3 he won the toss up of 'drones or lings' after 6pool vs FFE.




Cant agree sorry. Mass roaches vs archives first is a good choice. I guess Hero thought that going robo was too clunky and late, but Soulkey got that just right. They were pretty on equal footing in midgame despite 6pool.


They weren't even at all though - Hero's harass denied the 4th but Soulkey was ahead on drones by a lot more than usual. If you go robo in that situation your timing window for a 3base Anti hive timing is gone, and it just devolves into a similar scenario as game 2. His only chance was to hit a timing before Hive while hoping Soulkey would go straight from infestor / ling to BL / festor. You saw it by the timing he tried to hit with his moveout.


Thats true, but Soulkey going 6 pool is by no means a fact that you are getting ahead as zerg. Soulkey's follow up with Nexus cancel is what Soulkey risked and got ahead. Also, in game 2 getting that mothership, catching some of Hero forces with fungles really turned everything around. There is no telling how would it go if Hero had more obs on the map/ with him. Well, Hots should fix lategame for PvZ, if not then when i will begin whining too (not saying ur whining by any means).
Sumahi
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Guam5609 Posts
October 31 2012 14:22 GMT
#1294
Great day for zergs! Nice play from Curious, always a pleasure to watch him in action.
Startale <3, ST_July <3, HongUn <3, Savior <3, Gretorp <3, Nada <3, Rainbow <3, Ret <3, Squirtle <3, Bomber <3
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-31 14:27:00
October 31 2012 14:26 GMT
#1295
The conversation in this thread is a bit odd at times though. Soulkey is not to blame for playing an abusive style, it's not like HerO deserves to win just because his play is more challenging. After all, chances are that Soulkey would do really well in a battle of mechanics - he has like 400apm? - it's just that the broodlord/infestor stuff is superior. So Blizzard is really the only one that's at fault here.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
ZerglingTwins
Profile Joined October 2012
United States850 Posts
October 31 2012 14:26 GMT
#1296
Protoss is a weaker race, accept it people. Won't make sense if an ancient race can still dominate the universe. Zerg is the future race of the cosmo. Terran can survive longer than toss.
Searching for my twin ling brother.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
October 31 2012 14:27 GMT
#1297
On October 31 2012 23:21 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2012 23:03 Serelitz wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:57 NightOfTheDead wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:50 Serelitz wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:47 Fusilero wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:47 Cuce wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:37 LimitSEA wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:34 liberate71 wrote:
On October 31 2012 22:33 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Lol when I first opened this thread I was on a page that was joking about the seeds this season being no better than foreigners xD I guess Soulkey's seed is closer to naniwa than the standard foreigner ones


As in he's made himself easy to dislike?

All he's really done is play zerg and beat a Liquid player in ZvP. The state of the match up can't really be his fault, can it? He played well against Maru, and I won't put his victory against HerO exclusively to balance, though it played it's role for sure.



well people are not hating on soulkey. they whine about pvz.

Quite a few people are blatantly indicating that soulkey has just been carried by his race which is as silly as in WC3 when people accused players like lucifron of being carried by orc.


No doubt Soulkey is a good player but his wins vs Hero took pretty much no skill at all. He defended against harass very poorly on Whirlwind and just sat on 3.5 bases until he was invincible. Game 3 he won the toss up of 'drones or lings' after 6pool vs FFE.




Cant agree sorry. Mass roaches vs archives first is a good choice. I guess Hero thought that going robo was too clunky and late, but Soulkey got that just right. They were pretty on equal footing in midgame despite 6pool.


They weren't even at all though - Hero's harass denied the 4th but Soulkey was ahead on drones by a lot more than usual. If you go robo in that situation your timing window for a 3base Anti hive timing is gone, and it just devolves into a similar scenario as game 2. His only chance was to hit a timing before Hive while hoping Soulkey would go straight from infestor / ling to BL / festor. You saw it by the timing he tried to hit with his moveout.


Thats true, but Soulkey going 6 pool is by no means a fact that you are getting ahead as zerg. Soulkey's follow up with Nexus cancel is what Soulkey risked and got ahead. Also, in game 2 getting that mothership, catching some of Hero forces with fungles really turned everything around. There is no telling how would it go if Hero had more obs on the map/ with him. Well, Hots should fix lategame for PvZ, if not then when i will begin whining too (not saying ur whining by any means).


I am not sure about that. HerO could not engage that army if the spread was good. Although having the mothership would give him a better chance. He really needed Soulkey to clump has army.
shadymmj
Profile Joined June 2010
1906 Posts
October 31 2012 14:27 GMT
#1298
if all zerg had to do was to turtle to BL/infestors and win...then why did DRG get beaten 4-1 when that's all he tried to do?

no doubt, zerg is rather broken. but beatable.
There is no such thing is "e-sports". There is Brood War, and then there is crap for nerds.
-TesteR-
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1165 Posts
October 31 2012 14:28 GMT
#1299
On October 31 2012 23:01 shadymmj wrote:
of course soulkey isn't good. there is no need to state the obvious.

but if hero were that much better, he'd be the one advancing. after watching players like parting and by.sun, do you honestly think hero will stand a chance with this kind of sloppy play in the ro16?


hero 3-2 soulkey
xNebulous
Profile Joined May 2012
United States142 Posts
October 31 2012 14:28 GMT
#1300
This is disgusting.

I knew TL was anti-zerg but wow. Discrediting a players wins? What player is going to want to keep training hard and practicing if they see coments like this? This is thier job and passion and instead of getting praised for their hard work people just say "blah he only won because zerg is imba." The worst part is everyone seems to be ok with this.
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