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On October 21 2012 22:51 Embir wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:47 Surili wrote:On October 21 2012 22:41 eieio wrote:On October 21 2012 22:40 TheHova wrote:On October 21 2012 22:39 eieio wrote:On October 21 2012 22:38 TheHova wrote:On October 21 2012 22:36 eieio wrote: Wow I guess if Fraer defends this he wins but I'm pretty sure he can't... Nah, that's the thing... Even if you defend against it. You still don't win. You just get to the next phase. I don't play this matchup(I'm T, clearly), but I always kinda assumed it was like holding two base muta in bw tvz or something, I guess I'm wrong? Yep, the Zerg takes multiple bases and a huge econ behind it. Then goes Hive and spines up. There's no timing and you never win a base race against mutas. hahaha shows how much I know about the matchup, thanks man. That actually makes a lot of sense, having no timing to win on seems pretty deadly for p to me. Can't they just remove Broods from the game, and replace them with something else? They are almost an a move unit that just make the game boring in PvZ sometimes :/ Broods aren't the problem, the problem is Infestor. It is unit that counters micro and all units in the game. Hell it is so fast I can't even EMP it sometimes.
Broodlings blocking unit movement on the ground is anti micro too though ;o
i would rather have guardians.
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On October 21 2012 22:49 Sent. wrote: Fraer didn't play bad vs Bly, but I wonder how could he beat Nerchio. First game was DT rush against no lair, no evo, second game he won was straightforward PvZ, midgame push with lots of micro, stalled until infestors came out but fraer built up too many units.
He's very good against players who go roaches into infestors a lot, but vs hydras and mutas into infestors he looks a bit worse.
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On October 21 2012 22:50 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:49 Sent. wrote: Fraer didn't play bad vs Bly, but I wonder how could he beat Nerchio. Sometimes players are just unable to beat someone else nerchio has this vs fraer.
Like ClouD vs GoOdy or MKP vs Mvp?
Interesting. I don't remember other instances where fraer beat Nerchio. Could you shed a bit of light?
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ROFL, best vid ever!!!!
MC Apollo on the stage, ladies and gentlemen!
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MC rApollo rap! DH is awesome as usuall!
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Italy12246 Posts
On October 21 2012 22:51 Embir wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:47 Surili wrote:On October 21 2012 22:41 eieio wrote:On October 21 2012 22:40 TheHova wrote:On October 21 2012 22:39 eieio wrote:On October 21 2012 22:38 TheHova wrote:On October 21 2012 22:36 eieio wrote: Wow I guess if Fraer defends this he wins but I'm pretty sure he can't... Nah, that's the thing... Even if you defend against it. You still don't win. You just get to the next phase. I don't play this matchup(I'm T, clearly), but I always kinda assumed it was like holding two base muta in bw tvz or something, I guess I'm wrong? Yep, the Zerg takes multiple bases and a huge econ behind it. Then goes Hive and spines up. There's no timing and you never win a base race against mutas. hahaha shows how much I know about the matchup, thanks man. That actually makes a lot of sense, having no timing to win on seems pretty deadly for p to me. Can't they just remove Broods from the game, and replace them with something else? They are almost an a move unit that just make the game boring in PvZ sometimes :/ Broods aren't the problem, the problem is Infestor. It is unit that counters micro and all units in the game. Hell it is so fast I can't even EMP it sometimes.
The big overall design problems are 1) Z lair tech units are insanely cost inefficient on their own so Z NEEDS hive to close off games and 2) at least in pvz, the combination of broodlords, infestors and spines, and the over reliance of P on Vortex to kill the deathball.
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On October 21 2012 22:51 Embir wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:47 Surili wrote:On October 21 2012 22:41 eieio wrote:On October 21 2012 22:40 TheHova wrote:On October 21 2012 22:39 eieio wrote:On October 21 2012 22:38 TheHova wrote:On October 21 2012 22:36 eieio wrote: Wow I guess if Fraer defends this he wins but I'm pretty sure he can't... Nah, that's the thing... Even if you defend against it. You still don't win. You just get to the next phase. I don't play this matchup(I'm T, clearly), but I always kinda assumed it was like holding two base muta in bw tvz or something, I guess I'm wrong? Yep, the Zerg takes multiple bases and a huge econ behind it. Then goes Hive and spines up. There's no timing and you never win a base race against mutas. hahaha shows how much I know about the matchup, thanks man. That actually makes a lot of sense, having no timing to win on seems pretty deadly for p to me. Can't they just remove Broods from the game, and replace them with something else? They are almost an a move unit that just make the game boring in PvZ sometimes :/ Broods aren't the problem, the problem is Infestor. It is unit that counters micro and all units in the game. Hell it is so fast I can't even EMP it sometimes.
really not trying to get into a balance whine but I kinda agree, units that can't move getting owned by broodlords is just gross.
I'm T but I kinda cry when stalkers get fungaled and destroyed by broods.
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rApollo is backkkk! :D
Now for some TLO!
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On October 21 2012 22:50 Skelith wrote:nerchio isnt a fan of TLO!  great matchup
...? why isn´t he a fan of TLO? few days ago i watched tlo´s stream when he beats nerchio. Nerchio wrote" god damn TLO u are so good"
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
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ahahaha MC apollo's return
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On October 21 2012 22:52 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:50 Fusilero wrote:On October 21 2012 22:49 Sent. wrote: Fraer didn't play bad vs Bly, but I wonder how could he beat Nerchio. Sometimes players are just unable to beat someone else nerchio has this vs fraer. Like ClouD vs GoOdy or MKP vs Mvp? Interesting. I don't remember other instances where fraer beat Nerchio. Could you shed a bit of light?
Beats him online a lot. Think he beat him at a previous DH too.
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Rapollo
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Sick hahaha.
Like I said guys, fraer is no loser. :D
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lmao I'm dying stop playing MC apollo or I'll wake up my housemates.
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Russian Federation1893 Posts
Balance complaining reminds me DotA forums  Earlier BW threads were more to discuss players' skils rather than imbalance of the races. ... though pre-Bisu pvz was like autoloss for toss
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should be balanced around with Ultras being the de-facto tier 3 tech.
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On October 21 2012 22:52 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:51 umelbumel wrote: pvz was once a pretty good matchup. The last good pvz I remember in the recent past was Nerchio vs. Grubby. I don't say one race is much stronger than the other. It's just always the same shit. :-( Starnan vs sortof was a fun PvZ, I think it's that a good PvZ is one where zerg loses when zerg wins the protoss looks hopeless and it's just stupid while when protoss wins the protoss gets to look like a boss if it's not lol archon toilet. I will put my faith in DRG vs. Rain in the OSL finals. Rain will pull of some pretty good moves I think. We'll see.
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On October 21 2012 22:54 eieio wrote: lmao I'm dying stop playing MC apollo or I'll wake up my housemates.
ahhhh the gods of dreamhack listened, thank goodness.
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