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On June 28 2012 22:19 duct_TAPE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 22:06 MangoMountain wrote:On June 28 2012 22:05 Havik_ wrote:
Protoss is designed around FF and when you can Overlord drop and negate FFs, that could just force the metagame down to even fewer strategies. What beats Overlord drop? 2 Stargate Void Ray? Blink Stalker all in? Well clearly the answer to an all-in not working anymore is more all-ins. I despise this kind of all-in mindset as well, "well if that all-in can't do it, then what all-in can?" this GSL cast went from people bashing protoss for being too strong when Squirtle beat Symbol in the first set, to people jumping to the other side saying zerg is too strong when Symbol won the second set they had. It is so easy to get caught up in the entire matchup balance when you see a strategy get wrecked by another. All games in the Squirtle/Symbol sets were very one-sided one way or another, so people start get agitated by the overall balance of the game, just after the match is done. People need to start realising you can't just judge a couple of games and say "well the world for protoss/zerg no longer stands, let's start whining about balance" Clearly Symbol's only option wasn't to go 4 base roach corruptor in the first game, clearly Squirtle's only option wasn't to 2 base immortal/sentry all-in the last game. I hope someone understands this.
Well if you take the third vs that, then they could drop over top of your Sentries. This could end up with Protoss doing air opening exclusively if this becomes super common.
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MC so gosu. Best toss fighting go for 3rd Championship!
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Yeah, MC should go grab a third.
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On June 28 2012 22:29 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 22:18 Biane wrote:On June 28 2012 22:16 Heavenlee wrote:On June 28 2012 22:11 Dosey wrote:On June 28 2012 22:09 rutian wrote:On June 28 2012 22:06 Biane wrote:On June 28 2012 22:06 Bam Lee wrote:
damn squirtle is out. How could MC beat squirtle 4 gate did you even watch the games? It was a joke Mr. Angry Neckbeard. Squirtle 4 Gated and MC held for the win. Thus, MC won because of 4gate. That's still incredibly misleading. MC outmicro'd and often had better decision making in general. He was behind due to build orders, which you can consider a form of being better on Squirtle's part, but utilized his own specialties to take the win. There is absolutely no reason to act like MC can never beat Squirtle, the guy is arguably the most consistent high level player (definitely top 3) despite people always acting like he's somehow not performing well anymore. MC is an O.G., I have absolutely no idea why people were writing him off. i only have 1 question what does O.G. stands for? Old generation (gamer) I would assume, also @ MC's old team oGs.
Haha, I was assuming that he meant 'original gangster,' which totally applies to MC.
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What a joke? Best Terran in the world got Fourth in this group. lol
User was warned for this post
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On June 28 2012 22:30 Havik_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 22:19 duct_TAPE wrote:On June 28 2012 22:06 MangoMountain wrote:On June 28 2012 22:05 Havik_ wrote:
Protoss is designed around FF and when you can Overlord drop and negate FFs, that could just force the metagame down to even fewer strategies. What beats Overlord drop? 2 Stargate Void Ray? Blink Stalker all in? Well clearly the answer to an all-in not working anymore is more all-ins. I despise this kind of all-in mindset as well, "well if that all-in can't do it, then what all-in can?" this GSL cast went from people bashing protoss for being too strong when Squirtle beat Symbol in the first set, to people jumping to the other side saying zerg is too strong when Symbol won the second set they had. It is so easy to get caught up in the entire matchup balance when you see a strategy get wrecked by another. All games in the Squirtle/Symbol sets were very one-sided one way or another, so people start get agitated by the overall balance of the game, just after the match is done. People need to start realising you can't just judge a couple of games and say "well the world for protoss/zerg no longer stands, let's start whining about balance" Clearly Symbol's only option wasn't to go 4 base roach corruptor in the first game, clearly Squirtle's only option wasn't to 2 base immortal/sentry all-in the last game. I hope someone understands this. Well if you take the third vs that, then they could drop over top of your Sentries. This could end up with Protoss doing air opening exclusively if this becomes super common.
I don't get it, is this your reply? I am not trying to talk about certain strategies here. I am talking about the overall consensus that people get too caught up in what build beats what, the games balance judged by a few games.
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MC always does it when people don't expect him to.
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On June 28 2012 22:37 polyphonyEX wrote:
Yeah, MC should go grab a third.
I see what you did there :D
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On June 28 2012 22:46 Boner55 wrote:
What a joke? Best Terran in the world got Fourth in this group. lol
They all have to lose eventually man, only one person can win GSL
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On June 28 2012 22:46 Boner55 wrote:
What a joke? Best Terran in the world got Fourth in this group. lol
MKP have shown he is quite terrible in GSL style competitions for a while tho.
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On June 28 2012 22:19 duct_TAPE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 22:06 MangoMountain wrote:On June 28 2012 22:05 Havik_ wrote:
Protoss is designed around FF and when you can Overlord drop and negate FFs, that could just force the metagame down to even fewer strategies. What beats Overlord drop? 2 Stargate Void Ray? Blink Stalker all in? Well clearly the answer to an all-in not working anymore is more all-ins. I despise this kind of all-in mindset as well, "well if that all-in can't do it, then what all-in can?" this GSL cast went from people bashing protoss for being too strong when Squirtle beat Symbol in the first set, to people jumping to the other side saying zerg is too strong when Symbol won the second set they had. It is so easy to get caught up in the entire matchup balance when you see a strategy get wrecked by another. All games in the Squirtle/Symbol sets were very one-sided one way or another, so people start get agitated by the overall balance of the game, just after the match is done. People need to start realising you can't just judge a couple of games and say "well the world for protoss/zerg no longer stands, let's start whining about balance" Clearly Symbol's only option wasn't to go 4 base roach corruptor in the first game, clearly Squirtle's only option wasn't to 2 base immortal/sentry all-in the last game. I hope someone understands this.
Totally agree wrt the knee-jerk reactions people show depending on how their favorite players/races perform.
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On June 28 2012 22:52 ragnorr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 22:46 Boner55 wrote:
What a joke? Best Terran in the world got Fourth in this group. lol MKP have shown he is quite terrible in GSL style competitions for a while tho.
Yeah, I was looking up past results just now and was surprised to see that MKP hasn't made Ro8 in Code S since his runner-up finish in the very first one.
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On June 28 2012 07:23 Cokefreak wrote:
MKP and Symbol easy. MKP will take winner's match and Symbol will defeat MC in final match.
Well that went well...
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Min Chul Yesssss!!!!!! HE IS TITANIUMMMMMMMMM
Now....can MarineKing come out of this and beat Symbol and Squirtle? I hope so... revealing more results.
*edit*  ......MarineKing nooo! Sigh.... at least Symbol turned on beastmode and crushed through Squirtle to advance. ggs
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On June 28 2012 22:11 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 22:09 rutian wrote:On June 28 2012 22:06 Biane wrote:On June 28 2012 22:06 Bam Lee wrote:
damn squirtle is out. How could MC beat squirtle 4 gate did you even watch the games? It was a joke Mr. Angry Neckbeard. Squirtle 4 Gated and MC held for the win. Thus, MC won because of 4gate.
not smart + misleading.
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Wow, excectly the other people that i thought...
but great for MC...
sad that squirtle didn't myke it though
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Damn, the BossToss strikes again.
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On June 28 2012 22:14 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 22:13 Inflicted_ wrote:On June 28 2012 22:11 Hall0wed wrote:On June 28 2012 22:04 Asha` wrote:
Sad to see the best Protoss out like that T_T Yes I think Squirtle got too cocky against MC there and then for Symbol he just used bad builds and got countered hardcore. Well the Daybreak build is not bad at all but drops were the big counter to it. I think Symbol studied Squirtle a good deal and it showed in that 2nd series big time. I know he could have picked up the idea for drops against Squirtle just based on TSL4 replays. But if MC is going to give it his all for this GSL it should be fun to see what he does against Taeja and Seed vs. Symbol will also be a fun series. I don't think so. It felt like Squirtle was the one who had Symbol figured out, but he planned on advancing out 2-0 (or Symbol being taken out by MC/MKP) and so had no other strategies left for their 2nd Best of 3. I think I agree with you. Squirtle's strats for that second series was just... I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish with those, sheesh.
I disagree. I thought he had an incredible plan for that Bo3, especially after he had allined the frist Bo3.
Game 1 he shows the same allin as the first series (7-gate +2 blink), then fakes a different allin (sentry/immortal/gatway with a hallucinated WP, which he deliberately "accidentally" flew into tower range then pulled back). Then he took a 3rd and macroed. You follow that? Fake allin (which your opponent is paranoid about) into an entirely different fake allin into macro.
If Symbol doesn't get drop then he will be way behind if his low tech army fails to break the 3rd (I assume Squirtle is confident in his control vs. the standard dropless roach max). Symbol SHOULDN'T get drop in that situation - Khaldor and Wolf were talking about how it's basically a wasted 300/300 vs a blink allin, which Squirtle was feigning. It was an incredible read and response from him to get drop. Squirtle even talked about being fooled for a bit: "I expected him to do all-in after all-in even in the final match. So I decided to make units which he tried to counter by taking an expansion but I also had a counter to that so I was able to win."
Game 2 his build is the same build as the fast 2 immortal/sentry allin, but he plays it out with the macro variation (only 4gates -> 3rd nexus with wall at the ramp to the 3rd) that is very common on entombed. Then he allins with a delayed immortal/gateway/warp prism build (the same one as the second allin he faked in game 1). So he did a potential allin into a fake macro game (that his opponent had seen him play before, and is super common on this map that he chose) into a delayed allin (that his opponent had already seen faked, and might not have taken as seriously).
The level of mindfuckery Squirtle was pulling off in that series was so incredible that I barely noticed when Symbol smashed the shit out of him.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
i suppose it's good that i didn't LR this, or i would feel even more depressed haha
ggwp everyone, the players who played better advanced today.
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EPT
