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On June 12 2012 22:21 dormer wrote:Wow, I left during the winner's match, come back and see that Naniwa made it out! So clutch! I'm really thrilled that he pulled it off -- you can have a good season, and that's great, but being able to compete at the top consistently is really important imo. And the other great thing about about Naniwa advancing is all the haters that look silly now :-p It's okay, keep explaining why Naniwa isn't really Code S level, I don't think he really cares right now because he's through to Ro16 for the second season in a row. + Show Spoiler +On June 12 2012 19:10 F1rstAssau1t wrote:
Naniwalk running out of luck, he gonna lose next match and bump he is gone.
Then lets hope GOM stop inviting lucky foreigners, if they wana be in the GSL they better qualify from Code B to Code S. On June 12 2012 19:05 F1rstAssau1t wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 19:02 michielbrands wrote:On June 12 2012 19:02 F1rstAssau1t wrote:
YEAH!!! GO CREATOR!!!
No more naniwalk and invites plz. he went round of 8? How the f*ck was his invitee unjustified? And how he got to the GSL? With a invite. He just had luck last season, this season he is getting out just watch. 0-1 so far. On June 12 2012 19:11 NoGasfOu wrote:
Naniwa is preparing for what's happening down the road (Code B) and trying to figure out when his 6th bailout seed will come.
sad thing is, kids like that will be back every time until they "get it right" ._.
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On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects.
It almost means you can't play in foreign tournaments. The privilige of being able to travel the world to participate is only for a select few. You need to be very accomplished and have a really good backing. I think you are simplifying things.
I think it safe to say that with no seeds the GSL would perhabs be more "pure" but the potential quality would suffer.
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On June 12 2012 22:32 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:27 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:26 farnham wrote:On June 12 2012 22:24 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 22:19 farnham wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8- Championship Code S level at times. haha good one ... no I'm not saying he could go in and win a Code S whenever he wanted. But with a bit of group/bracket luck he could definitely make the finals. There's a reason top Koreans put him right up there with DRG in interviews. bracket luck existed in open seasons but not anymore Bracket luck definitely still exists. MMA's made three GSL finals and dodged Protoss in all of them except Blizzard Cup where he Thor rushed Naniwa in a best of 1. Nestea won a GSL by playing one Terran player -- the woeful Ensnare. so were the players nestea or mma faced pushovers? def not
MMA played a lot of great players but he dodged the one matchup he's useless at. I call that bracket luck.
Nestea didn't have to play Rain because he quit GSL so he beat July (terrible ZvZ). Then he beat Ensnare (terrible TvEverything), Coca (Nestea's best matchup and a weak vs Z player), Hongun (awful player) and Losira (very good player but again Nestea vs Z).
There's a lot of good Terran's in GSL who could have beaten Nestea then (as TOP showed in the Super Tournament, SC almost showed in the May GSL and Clide showed in the May GSL, as well as MVP and MMA numerous times) but he managed to dodge them all and play most vs Zerg or vs horrible players like Hongun and Ensnare.
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On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects.
Naniwa convincingly beat the people he played in Season 2. He destroyed the previous season finalist. He lost to the greatest SC2 player ever and he still managed to make the games competitive. Naniwa deserves to be where he is. He only further proved that today
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Nestea and Nani. Everything is right in the world, even if they didn't get to play each other :D
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On June 12 2012 22:39 hefty wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. It almost means you can't play in foreign tournaments. The privilige of being able to travel the world to participate is only for a select few. You need to be very accomplished and have a really good backing. I think you are simplifying teams. I think it safe to say that with no seeds the GSL would perhabs be more "pure" but the potential quality would suffer.
It might be a select few for Koreans but most of the foreign big names travel the world and the ones that are good but don't (Dimaga, Kas, Mana, Nerchio) don't because either they are still in school or they don't join teams like Quantic, Liquid, EG, Mouz who have the money to send their players places.
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On June 12 2012 22:31 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:20 johnny123 wrote:On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. this asshole still talking? by his defination both Dongraegu and MMA do not deserve there Gsl Titles. Both were seeded into Code S from placing high at MLG. You have no argument son, just shut up and support a foreigner doing well in GSL. Apparently this is difficult for you to understand but making the Ro8, making the final or even winning a Code S doesn't mean to deserved to bypass the qualification process which you had FAILED to pass through. MMA and Polt could both win this Code S season were they in it but they lost in qualifying and therefore do not deserve to be the in the tournament.
They dident bypass the qualification... they qualified by placeing high in other tournaments, what in the world makes you think that qualifying through Code A is better then winning other big tournaments?
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On June 12 2012 22:37 FakeDeath wrote:
MMA DRG MC all earned their Code S seeds spot through the MLG-GSL exchange program.
So frankly speaking they legitimately qualified for Code S.
Naniwa case was basically free seeding. I could even pick competitors who achieved more than him in foreign tournaments during 2012.
(Violet,Stephano).
But since he prove himself in GSL Code S till the round of 8, i guess he is legit? Maybe
Don't forget he also earned it by being second in Providence and then he got denied after the probe rush incident.
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there is a reason why stephano doesn't prefer going to korea
just like what Naniwa said, he has few very very solid build but limited. remember the last time he played in GSL? he got countered so bad.
Stephano style is at best for MLG and ladder. He knows it.
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OMG!!! CREATOR AND THESTC SOOOOOOO BAADDDDD!!! EMBARRASSING PLAY!!!
+ Show Spoiler +No, not being serious. I just know that is what would have happened if Naniwa woulda lost 
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On June 12 2012 22:41 SolidMustard wrote:
Nestea and Nani. Everything is right in the world, even if they didn't get to play each other :D
They will meet in the finals!
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On June 12 2012 22:39 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:32 farnham wrote:On June 12 2012 22:27 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:26 farnham wrote:On June 12 2012 22:24 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 22:19 farnham wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8- Championship Code S level at times. haha good one ... no I'm not saying he could go in and win a Code S whenever he wanted. But with a bit of group/bracket luck he could definitely make the finals. There's a reason top Koreans put him right up there with DRG in interviews. bracket luck existed in open seasons but not anymore Bracket luck definitely still exists. MMA's made three GSL finals and dodged Protoss in all of them except Blizzard Cup where he Thor rushed Naniwa in a best of 1. Nestea won a GSL by playing one Terran player -- the woeful Ensnare. so were the players nestea or mma faced pushovers? def not MMA played a lot of great players but he dodged the one matchup he's useless at. I call that bracket luck. Nestea didn't have to play Rain because he quit GSL so he beat July (terrible ZvZ). Then he beat Ensnare (terrible TvEverything), Coca (Nestea's best matchup and a weak vs Z player), Hongun (awful player) and Losira (very good player but again Nestea vs Z). There's a lot of good Terran's in GSL who could have beaten Nestea then (as TOP showed in the Super Tournament, SC almost showed in the May GSL and Clide showed in the May GSL, as well as MVP and MMA numerous times) but he managed to dodge them all and play most vs Zerg or vs horrible players like Hongun and Ensnare.
But then again Nestea run was perfect and he never lost a fucking single set in a GSL Season.
Yeah you could argue Nestea dodge strong players and beaten weak player.
But going through a perfect win streak in GSL is pretty amazing.
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On June 12 2012 22:40 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Naniwa convincingly beat the people he played in Season 2. He destroyed the previous season finalist. He lost to the greatest SC2 player ever and he still managed to make the games competitive. Naniwa deserves to be where he is. He only further proved that today
That's an extremely rose tinted view. He beat Killer, Genius and Virus.
Not to mention you're still so fantastically missing the point. He could win Code S and he still wouldn't deserve to be given a free ride past Code A.
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On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects.
Playing in Korea, for NA and EU players, requires that you leave your home, family, and friends behind and go live for long periods of time in an environment with a different language, culture, and community and an insulated life-style.
That works for Naniwa. It doesn't work for the vast majority of NA and EU players. The sacrifice NA and EU players have to make to stay in Korea for months on ends is tiers above what Korean players have to do when they go to a weekend MLG.
Hell, DRG says he brings food from Korea to eat in MLGs because he doesn't enjoy the food in America. You think Naniwa has that option?
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On June 12 2012 22:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:40 MattBarry wrote:On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Naniwa convincingly beat the people he played in Season 2. He destroyed the previous season finalist. He lost to the greatest SC2 player ever and he still managed to make the games competitive. Naniwa deserves to be where he is. He only further proved that today That's an extremely rose tinted view. He beat Killer, Genius and Virus. Not to mention you're still so fantastically missing the point. He could win Code S and he still wouldn't deserve to be given a free ride past Code A.
Well that is your opinion. Thankfully, GOM disagrees
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On June 12 2012 22:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:39 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. It almost means you can't play in foreign tournaments. The privilige of being able to travel the world to participate is only for a select few. You need to be very accomplished and have a really good backing. I think you are simplifying teams. I think it safe to say that with no seeds the GSL would perhabs be more "pure" but the potential quality would suffer. It might be a select few for Koreans but most of the foreign big names travel the world and the ones that are good but don't (Dimaga, Kas, Mana, Nerchio) don't because either they are still in school or they don't join teams like Quantic, Liquid, EG, Mouz who have the money to send their players places.
But they don't need housing for months in Korea while missing out on chances to win around the world (I say months because of preparation time in the different environment). I will not be discussing this further, we simply disagree.
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theres essentially two problems.
1. starcraft 2 is largely luck based. not different from many other sports, but unlike many sports a player can choose to leave alot up to random chance.
2. starcraft 2 changes rapidly making it hard for players to remain successfull over time.
Problem 1 has led to great players deserving of being in GSL losing and dropping out. This problem has become clearer lately when gom, because of problem 2 have made it easier to rise and fall through the ranks - as to avoid the pools becoming stagnant resulting in "GOMTvT".
This leads to players like mc and bomber dropping out of gsl, you only have to lose 2-3 games or so to fall down into code b - and made it almost impossible to go through code b. even if you hade a 70% win rate (like flash in BW), you need to win 4 or 5 games to gain code a-seed - meaning an excellent player will only have 16% chance.
this number ofcourse falls dramatically if you have less then a 70% chance of winning. if you only have 55% (still without a doubt the better player) the chance is only 5%. resulting in you needing 20 code b-qualifiers to make it
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On June 12 2012 22:42 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:39 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:32 farnham wrote:On June 12 2012 22:27 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:26 farnham wrote:On June 12 2012 22:24 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 22:19 farnham wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:
[quote]
because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8- Championship Code S level at times. haha good one ... no I'm not saying he could go in and win a Code S whenever he wanted. But with a bit of group/bracket luck he could definitely make the finals. There's a reason top Koreans put him right up there with DRG in interviews. bracket luck existed in open seasons but not anymore Bracket luck definitely still exists. MMA's made three GSL finals and dodged Protoss in all of them except Blizzard Cup where he Thor rushed Naniwa in a best of 1. Nestea won a GSL by playing one Terran player -- the woeful Ensnare. so were the players nestea or mma faced pushovers? def not MMA played a lot of great players but he dodged the one matchup he's useless at. I call that bracket luck. Nestea didn't have to play Rain because he quit GSL so he beat July (terrible ZvZ). Then he beat Ensnare (terrible TvEverything), Coca (Nestea's best matchup and a weak vs Z player), Hongun (awful player) and Losira (very good player but again Nestea vs Z). There's a lot of good Terran's in GSL who could have beaten Nestea then (as TOP showed in the Super Tournament, SC almost showed in the May GSL and Clide showed in the May GSL, as well as MVP and MMA numerous times) but he managed to dodge them all and play most vs Zerg or vs horrible players like Hongun and Ensnare. But then again Nestea run was perfect and he never lost a fucking single set in a GSL Season. Yeah you could argue Nestea dodge strong players and beaten weak player. But going through a perfect win streak in GSL is pretty amazing.
Nestea's streak was awesome but MVPs was more impressive. I would take 17-1 over the absolute best over 17-0 over the lower tier code S.
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On June 12 2012 22:37 FakeDeath wrote:
MMA DRG MC all earned their Code S seeds spot through the MLG-GSL exchange program.
So frankly speaking they legitimately qualified for Code S.
Naniwa case was basically free seeding. I could even pick competitors who achieved more than him in foreign tournaments during 2012.
(Violet,Stephano).
But since he prove himself in GSL Code S till the round of 8, i guess he is legit? Maybe
You could pick other competitors, but you won't. Yeah...
You are just bitter because sometime in the past you said that Naniwa was bad and now that he proved you wrong you are trying to tell everyone that he is still bad... Just stop posting, please.
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On June 12 2012 22:42 TaKemE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:31 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:20 johnny123 wrote:On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. this asshole still talking? by his defination both Dongraegu and MMA do not deserve there Gsl Titles. Both were seeded into Code S from placing high at MLG. You have no argument son, just shut up and support a foreigner doing well in GSL. Apparently this is difficult for you to understand but making the Ro8, making the final or even winning a Code S doesn't mean to deserved to bypass the qualification process which you had FAILED to pass through. MMA and Polt could both win this Code S season were they in it but they lost in qualifying and therefore do not deserve to be the in the tournament. They dident bypass the qualification... they qualified by placeing high in other tournaments, what in the world makes you think that qualifying through Code A is better then winning other big tournaments?
The only player to ever win a big tournament and get a seed from it (i.e comparable to Code S) is Violet.
MMA (2nd in MLG to MVP)
DRG (3rd in MLG to Coca/Bomber)
MC (2nd to Huk)
Idra (Never won anything comparable)
Sen (Never won anything)
Naniwa (2nd MLG to Leenock)
Violet (Won MLG Spring Arena)
Thorzain (Won Dreamhack Stockholm - not even close to Code S/A level of competition)
Polt (Won Assembly - not even close to Code S/A level of competition)
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EPT
