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On June 12 2012 22:07 Slardar wrote:Naniwa is fighting bravely in enemy territory, while Stephano holds the ground from invasion in the home country defense. Can't wait until Stephano nydus worms into Korea to see who can hold the title as....... BEST FOREIGNER. SOLID STEPHANO VERSUS ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZVtem.jpg) LIQUID NANILOT ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bcrKY.jpg)
stephano had some help, from SaSe for one, hopefully Naniwa can get some support from Thorzain
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Naaaaaaaniiiiiiiiiiwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Yes! So happy! Yes, yes, yes! Go Nani!
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On June 12 2012 22:11 samw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:05 Soma.bokforlag wrote:
whos the best foreigner in the world? naniwa or sase? hard one!
great games by nani today! easily stephano
Will likely have a great chance to give it more thought after this weekend. It's tough to say, pure H2H I would lean more to Stephano. Overall, can't deny NaNiwa.
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On June 12 2012 22:11 HQuality wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. anyone who is in code S - deserved it. It CANNOT be simpler than that
so Thorzain, Sen and Idra deserved seeds?
On June 12 2012 22:12 hefty wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. Seeding makes a lot of sense with all the tournaments going on - Especially seeing how participation in some of them requires a huge effort (ie moving to Korea to play qualifiers). Without seeds the best players in the world can't be represented at the various big tourneys around the world, meaning the champions of these turnaments could be questioned. I think seeds enable more tourneys to have the "right" winners.
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
On June 12 2012 22:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:09 Adreme wrote:On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. Naniwa earned his code S seed in the same way Thorzain did and Violet did which is by doing well at foreign events. Every major foreign event now is basically like playing in Code A. This is also why you noticed a few non code S level players being sent to MLG (MVP sending there 3, Alicia who might be in line for next one). So to say they are just being handed out is wrong, they are being earned albeit in a different format than winning in Ro24 or winning in up/down. I think that's a good way of looking at it. It's not like winning a super-stacked tournament like MLG is a walk in the park either. And if players think that it *is* considerably easier than the alternatives, then all they need is to convince their teams to fund their flight out to MLG or wherever else so they can take their shot at winning their GSL spot. It's a different way of qualifying, but it's not like you get chosen at random for a GSL Code S seed by merely showing up to the event. You need to practically win the event!
That's great and all but Naniwa never won an MLG (aside from Dallas obviously which means next to nothing), he came second in an MLG when he was seeded into the quarter finals with a 7-6 map score but he's never won a Korean MLG.
Idra and Sen won nothing close to a Code S in difficulty (Sen's never even won anything).
Thorzain won a Dreamhack with three Code S players in it (and he only played one of them).
Polt won an Assembly by beating Taeja and Stephano and a load of player nowhere near Code S level.
The only seeded player to ever win a tournament which even remotely resembles a Code S in difficulty is Violet with his MLG Spring Arena win.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Couldn't watch last 2 games (Nani vs Creator). Is there a LR?
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Naniwa silencing the haters with his play as per usual
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On June 12 2012 22:20 johnny123 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. this asshole still talking? by his defination both Dongraegu and MMA do not deserve there Gsl Titles. Both were seeded into Code S from placing high at MLG. You have no argument son, just shut up and support a foreigner doing well in GSL.
Both DRG and MMA don't deserve a seed. They may be the best, but being the best shouldn't bar you from having to qualify.
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On June 12 2012 22:19 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8- Championship Code S level at times. haha good one ... no
I'm not saying he could go in and win a Code S whenever he wanted. But with a bit of group/bracket luck he could definitely make the finals. There's a reason top Koreans put him right up there with DRG in interviews.
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On June 12 2012 22:20 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:12 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. Seeding makes a lot of sense with all the tournaments going on - Especially seeing how participation in some of them requires a huge effort (ie moving to Korea to play qualifiers). Without seeds the best players in the world can't be represented at the various big tourneys around the world, meaning the champions of these turnaments could be questioned. I think seeds enable more tourneys to have the "right" winners. nono...Naniwa moved to Korea for the long-term, and was given MULTIPLE seeds, so this logic doesn't apply for him.
I were mostly commenting because he stated that "no one should ever be seeded". A point I disagree with as the concept of seeding is fairer than the alternative, imo.
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On June 12 2012 21:58 FakeDeath wrote:
Don't really like Naniwa.
Got a little lucky in those games.
Don't worry Creator.Come back strong next season.
No he didnt, he played better.
Naniwa played that last game as perfect as you can.
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On June 12 2012 22:24 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:19 farnham wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8- Championship Code S level at times. haha good one ... no I'm not saying he could go in and win a Code S whenever he wanted. But with a bit of group/bracket luck he could definitely make the finals. There's a reason top Koreans put him right up there with DRG in interviews.
bracket luck existed in open seasons
but not anymore
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On June 12 2012 22:24 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:19 farnham wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8- Championship Code S level at times. haha good one ... no I'm not saying he could go in and win a Code S whenever he wanted. But with a bit of group/bracket luck he could definitely make the finals. There's a reason top Koreans put him right up there with DRG in interviews.
People in interviews might say things like Stephano is as good as DRG but results suggests he certainly isn't.
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Guys anyone know the build order for Nestea vs STC in both games where he went for 6 queen build and taking a fast third?
I would like to know how long he went gasless and then he takes his gas.
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On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8-Championship Code S level at times.
GSL is a totaly diffrent thing compered to MLG and IPL. You need a diffrent skillset and we will soon se if stephano has it. Stephano plays a very instingktivly and i doubt he will prepair very good.
(Sorry for my bad spelling)
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On June 12 2012 22:26 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:24 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 22:19 farnham wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8- Championship Code S level at times. haha good one ... no I'm not saying he could go in and win a Code S whenever he wanted. But with a bit of group/bracket luck he could definitely make the finals. There's a reason top Koreans put him right up there with DRG in interviews. bracket luck existed in open seasons but not anymore
Bracket luck definitely still exists. MMA's made three GSL finals and dodged Protoss in all of them except Blizzard Cup where he Thor rushed Naniwa in a best of 1.
Nestea won a GSL by playing one Terran player -- the woeful Ensnare.
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Out of Naniwa or Creator, I definitely wanted Naniwa to qualify - never a fan of creator.
Would've wanted TheStc to qualify obviously, but I'll accept Byun qualifying (from yesterday) over him
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On June 12 2012 22:24 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:20 johnny123 wrote:On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. this asshole still talking? by his defination both Dongraegu and MMA do not deserve there Gsl Titles. Both were seeded into Code S from placing high at MLG. You have no argument son, just shut up and support a foreigner doing well in GSL. Both DRG and MMA don't deserve a seed. They may be the best, but being the best shouldn't bar you from having to qualify.
dont forget MC, he also got seeded into gsl
according to some people in this thread MMA, DRG och MC are simply not GSL-material because they didnt make it through code b
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and ofcourse polt
mma, drg, mc and polt
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On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:11 HQuality wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. anyone who is in code S - deserved it. It CANNOT be simpler than that so Thorzain, Sen and Idra deserved seeds? Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:12 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. Seeding makes a lot of sense with all the tournaments going on - Especially seeing how participation in some of them requires a huge effort (ie moving to Korea to play qualifiers). Without seeds the best players in the world can't be represented at the various big tourneys around the world, meaning the champions of these turnaments could be questioned. I think seeds enable more tourneys to have the "right" winners. I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do). But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament. Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce. If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player. Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 12 2012 22:09 Adreme wrote:On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. Naniwa earned his code S seed in the same way Thorzain did and Violet did which is by doing well at foreign events. Every major foreign event now is basically like playing in Code A. This is also why you noticed a few non code S level players being sent to MLG (MVP sending there 3, Alicia who might be in line for next one). So to say they are just being handed out is wrong, they are being earned albeit in a different format than winning in Ro24 or winning in up/down. I think that's a good way of looking at it. It's not like winning a super-stacked tournament like MLG is a walk in the park either. And if players think that it *is* considerably easier than the alternatives, then all they need is to convince their teams to fund their flight out to MLG or wherever else so they can take their shot at winning their GSL spot. It's a different way of qualifying, but it's not like you get chosen at random for a GSL Code S seed by merely showing up to the event. You need to practically win the event! That's great and all but Naniwa never won an MLG (aside from Dallas obviously which means next to nothing), he came second in an MLG when he was seeded into the quarter finals with a 7-6 map score but he's never won a Korean MLG. Idra and Sen won nothing close to a Code S in difficulty (Sen's never even won anything). Thorzain won a Dreamhack with three Code S players in it (and he only played one of them). Polt won an Assembly by beating Taeja and Stephano and a load of player nowhere near Code S level. The only seeded player to ever win a tournament which even remotely resembles a Code S in difficulty is Violet with his MLG Spring Arena win.
He also won invitational at that event beating MVP and Nestea(who he beat again in the tournament). If he hadnt had his controversy at the blizzard cup than he would have been one of the first 2 invited and no one would have questioned it.
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On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree.
As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds.
On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing.
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EPT
