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On June 12 2012 22:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:40 MattBarry wrote:On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Naniwa convincingly beat the people he played in Season 2. He destroyed the previous season finalist. He lost to the greatest SC2 player ever and he still managed to make the games competitive. Naniwa deserves to be where he is. He only further proved that today That's an extremely rose tinted view. He beat Killer, Genius and Virus. Not to mention you're still so fantastically missing the point. He could win Code S and he still wouldn't deserve to be given a free ride past Code A.
At its core Code A exists solely as a qualification round for Code S. They dont even have a real winner of the thing anymore. Only 12 people make it thru that way. Following your logic the other 10 who go thru the up/downs dont deserve code S because they failed to do it in code A.
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On June 12 2012 22:27 KiZZeMiZZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8-Championship Code S level at times. GSL is a totaly diffrent thing compered to MLG and IPL. You need a diffrent skillset and we will soon se if stephano has it. Stephano plays a very instingktivly and i doubt he will prepair very good. (Sorry for my bad spelling)
Different skillset? Er no. You 'just' need to be extremely good at SC2. Stephano has proven he is good at it. Has he not beaten 12 Koreans in the past month alone? The answer is yes!
Attempting to take your opponent by surprise by doing something unexpected is part of the skillset of succeeding at SC2. Every player has succumbed to situations where they had BO losses or did not scout a coming attack, or their army just happened to be caught out of position at a crucial time. That's all part of SC2. GSL is no different. Both players can try and cook up a surprise for the opponent.
Anyway, I am really happy for Naniwa continuing to win in Code S.
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On June 12 2012 22:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:42 TaKemE wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:20 johnny123 wrote:On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. this asshole still talking? by his defination both Dongraegu and MMA do not deserve there Gsl Titles. Both were seeded into Code S from placing high at MLG. You have no argument son, just shut up and support a foreigner doing well in GSL. Apparently this is difficult for you to understand but making the Ro8, making the final or even winning a Code S doesn't mean to deserved to bypass the qualification process which you had FAILED to pass through. MMA and Polt could both win this Code S season were they in it but they lost in qualifying and therefore do not deserve to be the in the tournament. They dident bypass the qualification... they qualified by placeing high in other tournaments, what in the world makes you think that qualifying through Code A is better then winning other big tournaments? The only player to ever win a big tournament and get a seed from it (i.e comparable to Code S) is Violet. MMA (2nd in MLG to MVP) DRG (3rd in MLG to Coca/Bomber) MC (2nd to Huk) Idra (Never won anything comparable) Sen (Never won anything) Naniwa (2nd MLG to Leenock) Violet (Won MLG Spring Arena) Thorzain (Won Dreamhack Stockholm - not even close to Code S/A level of competition) Polt (Won Assembly - not even close to Code S/A level of competition)
You don't have to win code A to qualify for code S.. ^^
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On June 12 2012 22:43 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Playing in Korea, for NA and EU players, requires that you leave your home, family, and friends behind and go live for long periods of time in an environment with a different language, culture, and community and an insulated life-style. That works for Naniwa. It doesn't work for the vast majority of NA and EU players. The sacrifice NA and EU players have to make to stay in Korea for months on ends is tiers above what Korean players have to do when they go to a weekend MLG. Hell, DRG says he brings food from Korea to eat in MLGs because he doesn't enjoy the food in America. You think Naniwa has that option?
Being the best in the world at something is obviously going to require hard work and sacrifice. It's not an excuse for affirmative action.
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On June 12 2012 22:47 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:40 MattBarry wrote:On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Naniwa convincingly beat the people he played in Season 2. He destroyed the previous season finalist. He lost to the greatest SC2 player ever and he still managed to make the games competitive. Naniwa deserves to be where he is. He only further proved that today That's an extremely rose tinted view. He beat Killer, Genius and Virus. Not to mention you're still so fantastically missing the point. He could win Code S and he still wouldn't deserve to be given a free ride past Code A. At its core Code A exists solely as a qualification round for Code S. They dont even have a real winner of the thing anymore. Only 12 people make it thru that way. Following your logic the other 10 who go thru the up/downs dont deserve code S because they failed to do it in code A.
It's not just Code A though, it's also Code B.
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On June 12 2012 22:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:42 TaKemE wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:20 johnny123 wrote:On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:49 Dodgin wrote:
hopefully people will shut up about naniwa not being deserving of code S making it past the first round 2 seasons in a row now. You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. this asshole still talking? by his defination both Dongraegu and MMA do not deserve there Gsl Titles. Both were seeded into Code S from placing high at MLG. You have no argument son, just shut up and support a foreigner doing well in GSL. Apparently this is difficult for you to understand but making the Ro8, making the final or even winning a Code S doesn't mean to deserved to bypass the qualification process which you had FAILED to pass through. MMA and Polt could both win this Code S season were they in it but they lost in qualifying and therefore do not deserve to be the in the tournament. They dident bypass the qualification... they qualified by placeing high in other tournaments, what in the world makes you think that qualifying through Code A is better then winning other big tournaments? The only player to ever win a big tournament and get a seed from it (i.e comparable to Code S) is Violet. MMA (2nd in MLG to MVP) DRG (3rd in MLG to Coca/Bomber) MC (2nd to Huk) Idra (Never won anything comparable) Sen (Never won anything) Naniwa (2nd MLG to Leenock) Violet (Won MLG Spring Arena) Thorzain (Won Dreamhack Stockholm - not even close to Code S/A level of competition) Polt (Won Assembly - not even close to Code S/A level of competition)
You dont have to win the event you just have to be better than the rest of the non Code S players. Every major event during the GSL basically functions as a code S qualifier (similer to Code A) and showing that you can win or perform highly at these major events earns you the seed just like winning an up/down match or a Ro24 code A match.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
On June 12 2012 22:35 bbm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:23 dezi wrote:
Couldn't watch last 2 games (Nani vs Creator). Is there a LR? Don't think so. Quick summary: Game 1, creator opened phoenix but did little damage, nani blink stalkers + robo. Naniwa was able to use blink and his observer's high ground vision to snipe the cyber core and robotics from out of the range of creator's army, sealing the deal. Game 2, both opened DTs but nani got an expansion, a robotics facility, and a sentry. FF'd creator's DTs out of his main until his observer got out, meanwhile sent 1 DT to creators base, creator didn't notice and so didnt FF it out, GG soon after.
Thanks 
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Are people still complaining about seeds? Haha.
Code A is merely one route of qualification into Code S. Doing well in foreign tournaments is another. The precedent has been set for a long time now. People who can't accept this fact just have to deal with it. GOM have this policy and will continue with it. Whining about it just seems pointless and makes you look out of touch with the GSL of 2012.
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On June 12 2012 22:48 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:27 KiZZeMiZZ wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8-Championship Code S level at times. GSL is a totaly diffrent thing compered to MLG and IPL. You need a diffrent skillset and we will soon se if stephano has it. Stephano plays a very instingktivly and i doubt he will prepair very good. (Sorry for my bad spelling) Different skillset? Er no. You 'just' need to be extremely good at SC2. Stephano has proven he is good at it. Has he not beaten 12 Koreans in the past month alone? The answer is yes! Attempting to take your opponent by surprise by doing something unexpected is part of the skillset of succeeding at SC2. Every player has succumbed to situations where they had BO losses or did not scout a coming attack, or their army just happened to be caught out of position at a crucial time. That's all part of SC2. GSL is no different. Both players can try and cook up a surprise for the opponent. Anyway, I am really happy for Naniwa continuing to win in Code S.
Dude what, GSL is a totally different beast from IPL and MLG. There will be a team of dedicated Koreans going over all his games to find holes in his play and prepare specific builds to counter his style. Stephano won't just march into Korea to collect some checks. I still think he'll make Ro8 though.
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On June 12 2012 22:48 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:27 KiZZeMiZZ wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8-Championship Code S level at times. GSL is a totaly diffrent thing compered to MLG and IPL. You need a diffrent skillset and we will soon se if stephano has it. Stephano plays a very instingktivly and i doubt he will prepair very good. (Sorry for my bad spelling) Different skillset? Er no. You 'just' need to be extremely good at SC2. Stephano has proven he is good at it. Has he not beaten 12 Koreans in the past month alone? The answer is yes! Attempting to take your opponent by surprise by doing something unexpected is part of the skillset of succeeding at SC2. Every player has succumbed to situations where they had BO losses or did not scout a coming attack, or their army just happened to be caught out of position at a crucial time. That's all part of SC2. GSL is no different. Both players can try and cook up a surprise for the opponent. Anyway, I am really happy for Naniwa continuing to win in Code S.
It's still incredibly different when players have weeks to study and try to counter their opponents on specific maps. So it depends on two things, how well can he prepare for specific opponents and how easily will players be able to find counters to his overall style with immense preparation.
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On June 12 2012 22:46 TiTanIum_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:37 FakeDeath wrote:
MMA DRG MC all earned their Code S seeds spot through the MLG-GSL exchange program.
So frankly speaking they legitimately qualified for Code S.
Naniwa case was basically free seeding. I could even pick competitors who achieved more than him in foreign tournaments during 2012.
(Violet,Stephano).
But since he prove himself in GSL Code S till the round of 8, i guess he is legit? Maybe
You could pick other competitors, but you won't. Yeah... You are just bitter because sometime in the past you said that Naniwa was bad and now that he proved you wrong you are trying to tell everyone that he is still bad... Just stop posting, please.
Fuck that did i ever say Naniwa was bad??
He never achieve any notable foreign tournament results in 2012 and he got a free Code S seed to GSL when
other koreans or foreigners achieve better?
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On June 12 2012 22:51 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:47 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:42 TaKemE wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:20 johnny123 wrote:On June 12 2012 22:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:02 RaGnArOkY wrote:On June 12 2012 21:59 BackSideAttack wrote:On June 12 2012 21:54 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 BackSideAttack wrote:
[quote]
You realize even if you are the best player in the world, you still wouldn't "deserve" a seed. Spots in Code S are meant to be earned through qualification, not because your a foreigner. Which evidently means that he deserved his Code S spot this season. I don't think you understand my post. Just because your Code S caliber, doesn't mean you deserve to be seeded into Code S, especially if you've been given multiple seeds already and have chosen to live in Korea for the long term. I don't think you understand his post, he is saying Naniwa earned his qualification for this GSL and didn't get it from a seed. Anything about last seasons seed doesn't matter. He is still Code S because of a seed even if he managed to maintain it last season. No one should ever be seeded. this asshole still talking? by his defination both Dongraegu and MMA do not deserve there Gsl Titles. Both were seeded into Code S from placing high at MLG. You have no argument son, just shut up and support a foreigner doing well in GSL. Apparently this is difficult for you to understand but making the Ro8, making the final or even winning a Code S doesn't mean to deserved to bypass the qualification process which you had FAILED to pass through. MMA and Polt could both win this Code S season were they in it but they lost in qualifying and therefore do not deserve to be the in the tournament. They dident bypass the qualification... they qualified by placeing high in other tournaments, what in the world makes you think that qualifying through Code A is better then winning other big tournaments? The only player to ever win a big tournament and get a seed from it (i.e comparable to Code S) is Violet. MMA (2nd in MLG to MVP) DRG (3rd in MLG to Coca/Bomber) MC (2nd to Huk) Idra (Never won anything comparable) Sen (Never won anything) Naniwa (2nd MLG to Leenock) Violet (Won MLG Spring Arena) Thorzain (Won Dreamhack Stockholm - not even close to Code S/A level of competition) Polt (Won Assembly - not even close to Code S/A level of competition) You dont have to win the event you just have to be better than the rest of the non Code S players. Every major event during the GSL basically functions as a code S qualifier (similer to Code A) and showing that you can win or perform highly at these major events earns you the seed just like winning an up/down match or a Ro24 code A match.
Which is dumb because A) It's extremely arbitrary what actually grants you a seed, B) You have to do three times better as a Korean at a foreign tournament than a foreigner does to get a seed and C) Some of the tournaments considered like Dreamhack and Assembly are far, far easier than winning 5-8 rounds of Code B/A perhaps followed by a top two place in the up/downs.
At least with the MLG XP you had a set agreement before hand of exactly how you could qualified so it wasn't just GOM making random decisions (made mostly on fanbase rather than actual merit).
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On June 12 2012 22:37 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:27 KiZZeMiZZ wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8-Championship Code S level at times. GSL is a totaly diffrent thing compered to MLG and IPL. You need a diffrent skillset and we will soon se if stephano has it. Stephano plays a very instingktivly and i doubt he will prepair very good. (Sorry for my bad spelling) To be fair, these days you don't prepare for the GSL; you try to be unpredictable and to show new builds. The optimal way to play the GSL is to play differently from the way you do on ladder, because that's where people get their information about you and try to tailor their builds and styles against. Come in with a different build, a different style, and you waste your opponent's preparation. Stephano understands this, I think. He's said in a lot of interviews before matches against great players that he has to surprise them. He plays on instinct, which makes him solid against prepared builds that do not hard counter what he's doing. So long as Stephano stays away from playing the same builds he plays all the time, he has a decent shot at doing fine in the GSL.
Winning GSL right now is incredribly hard. It requires you to be really strong player overall and have many strategies that you are good at because your opponent will pick your style apart. You must have really good game sense as well because you will have to face countless amount of cheese. Macro game,all in,timing, whatever you must be good at all them to be unpredictable. It's basically everything MVP has. The player like MC can win GSL more than he did in the past but I think he is not so good at choosing what strategy to use in each game. He is good at everything but he just 2 bases too much.
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On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
so Thorzain, Sen and Idra deserved seeds?
ANYONE
it's the one and only objective point of view - anyone who is in code s - deserved it.
Any other opinion (this player should be or that player should or rules should be like this or rules should be like that etc) is very subjective
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On June 12 2012 22:50 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:47 Adreme wrote:On June 12 2012 22:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:40 MattBarry wrote:On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Naniwa convincingly beat the people he played in Season 2. He destroyed the previous season finalist. He lost to the greatest SC2 player ever and he still managed to make the games competitive. Naniwa deserves to be where he is. He only further proved that today That's an extremely rose tinted view. He beat Killer, Genius and Virus. Not to mention you're still so fantastically missing the point. He could win Code S and he still wouldn't deserve to be given a free ride past Code A. At its core Code A exists solely as a qualification round for Code S. They dont even have a real winner of the thing anymore. Only 12 people make it thru that way. Following your logic the other 10 who go thru the up/downs dont deserve code S because they failed to do it in code A. It's not just Code A though, it's also Code B.
Okay so....it still exists soley as a qualification for Code S. There are 3 ways to qualify into code S as it stands right now
1. Win your Ro24 code A match
2. Come in 1st/2nd in your up/down group
3. Compete in the major foreign events around the world and place highly at tehm.
I really dont see how any of these are less credible than the others. I dont fault people who win there up/downs because they lost to someone in Ro24 or even Ro32.
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On June 12 2012 22:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:43 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Playing in Korea, for NA and EU players, requires that you leave your home, family, and friends behind and go live for long periods of time in an environment with a different language, culture, and community and an insulated life-style. That works for Naniwa. It doesn't work for the vast majority of NA and EU players. The sacrifice NA and EU players have to make to stay in Korea for months on ends is tiers above what Korean players have to do when they go to a weekend MLG. Hell, DRG says he brings food from Korea to eat in MLGs because he doesn't enjoy the food in America. You think Naniwa has that option? Being the best in the world at something is obviously going to require hard work and sacrifice. It's not an excuse for affirmative action.
You don't quite get it. Without seeds, nobody from NA / EU aside from a few expats who enjoy being in Korea for the sake of being in Korea is going to bother with the GSL. Without international players, GSL is not an international tournament.
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On June 12 2012 22:55 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:37 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:27 KiZZeMiZZ wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8-Championship Code S level at times. GSL is a totaly diffrent thing compered to MLG and IPL. You need a diffrent skillset and we will soon se if stephano has it. Stephano plays a very instingktivly and i doubt he will prepair very good. (Sorry for my bad spelling) To be fair, these days you don't prepare for the GSL; you try to be unpredictable and to show new builds. The optimal way to play the GSL is to play differently from the way you do on ladder, because that's where people get their information about you and try to tailor their builds and styles against. Come in with a different build, a different style, and you waste your opponent's preparation. Stephano understands this, I think. He's said in a lot of interviews before matches against great players that he has to surprise them. He plays on instinct, which makes him solid against prepared builds that do not hard counter what he's doing. So long as Stephano stays away from playing the same builds he plays all the time, he has a decent shot at doing fine in the GSL. Winning GSL right now is incredribly hard. It requires you to be really strong player overall and have many strategies that you are good at because your opponent will pick your style apart. You must have really good game sense as well because you will have to face countless amount of cheese. Macro game,all in,timing, whatever you must be good at all them to be unpredictable. It's basically everything MVP has. The player like MC can win GSL but I think he is not so good at choosing what strategy to use in each game. He is good at everything but he just 2 bases too much.
.. and most of all, it requires luck. Just remember how much cheese we saw from the quarter-finals and forward last season. They weren't great games, they were games of people taking giant risks.
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On June 12 2012 22:48 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:27 KiZZeMiZZ wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8-Championship Code S level at times. GSL is a totaly diffrent thing compered to MLG and IPL. You need a diffrent skillset and we will soon se if stephano has it. Stephano plays a very instingktivly and i doubt he will prepair very good. (Sorry for my bad spelling) Different skillset? Er no. You 'just' need to be extremely good at SC2. Stephano has proven he is good at it. Has he not beaten 12 Koreans in the past month alone? The answer is yes! Attempting to take your opponent by surprise by doing something unexpected is part of the skillset of succeeding at SC2. Every player has succumbed to situations where they had BO losses or did not scout a coming attack, or their army just happened to be caught out of position at a crucial time. That's all part of SC2. GSL is no different. Both players can try and cook up a surprise for the opponent. Anyway, I am really happy for Naniwa continuing to win in Code S.
It's obviously a different skill set.
Just look at Zenio, Sase, Nestea, Genius, Oz, MC and plenty of others who clearly suit one format over the other.
Only Stephano can prove he can make it work with the GSL style format but clearly it requires something very different from you than MLG does.
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On June 12 2012 22:57 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:43 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Playing in Korea, for NA and EU players, requires that you leave your home, family, and friends behind and go live for long periods of time in an environment with a different language, culture, and community and an insulated life-style. That works for Naniwa. It doesn't work for the vast majority of NA and EU players. The sacrifice NA and EU players have to make to stay in Korea for months on ends is tiers above what Korean players have to do when they go to a weekend MLG. Hell, DRG says he brings food from Korea to eat in MLGs because he doesn't enjoy the food in America. You think Naniwa has that option? Being the best in the world at something is obviously going to require hard work and sacrifice. It's not an excuse for affirmative action. You don't quite get it. Without seeds, nobody from NA / EU aside from a few expats who enjoy being in Korea for the sake of being in Korea is going to bother with the GSL. Without international players, GSL is not an international tournament.
They will bother because A) They want to prove themselves in the best tournament and B) You become the best by living in Korea in a Korean house in which case you may as well play GSL anyway.
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On June 12 2012 22:57 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 22:55 Wildmoon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:37 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:27 KiZZeMiZZ wrote:On June 12 2012 22:16 Kiyo. wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 Zealously wrote:On June 12 2012 21:53 parker- wrote:On June 12 2012 21:52 M7Jagger wrote:
Best foreigner, don't understand why people always hype up Stephano because Stephano > naniwa When did they last face off in any significant tournament setting? It's not always about H2H. But even if, Stephano could probably win right now. I'm a big Naniwa fan, but Stephano is just on another level right now. Naniwa is like Ro16-Ro8 Code S material. Stephano is like Ro8-Championship Code S level at times. GSL is a totaly diffrent thing compered to MLG and IPL. You need a diffrent skillset and we will soon se if stephano has it. Stephano plays a very instingktivly and i doubt he will prepair very good. (Sorry for my bad spelling) To be fair, these days you don't prepare for the GSL; you try to be unpredictable and to show new builds. The optimal way to play the GSL is to play differently from the way you do on ladder, because that's where people get their information about you and try to tailor their builds and styles against. Come in with a different build, a different style, and you waste your opponent's preparation. Stephano understands this, I think. He's said in a lot of interviews before matches against great players that he has to surprise them. He plays on instinct, which makes him solid against prepared builds that do not hard counter what he's doing. So long as Stephano stays away from playing the same builds he plays all the time, he has a decent shot at doing fine in the GSL. Winning GSL right now is incredribly hard. It requires you to be really strong player overall and have many strategies that you are good at because your opponent will pick your style apart. You must have really good game sense as well because you will have to face countless amount of cheese. Macro game,all in,timing, whatever you must be good at all them to be unpredictable. It's basically everything MVP has. The player like MC can win GSL but I think he is not so good at choosing what strategy to use in each game. He is good at everything but he just 2 bases too much. .. and most of all, it requires luck. Just remember how much cheese we saw from the quarter-finals and forward last season. They weren't great games, they were games of people taking giant risks.
Luck plays the least part imo. If you are solid all around luck will not affect you very much. Do you remember the game that Naniwa scouted MVP's proxy rax and still failed to defend it and Squirtle already held MVP's cheese in game 7 but MVP just killed him?
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EPT
