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I dont see the big deal about the whole "NaniWa not deserving his seed"-thing, because by GOM rules he has qualified for this season just like Mvp, Squirtle, Hero, Taeja, Parting, Oz and Supernova did.
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So nice to see Naniwa advance, hopefully he can get really far.
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go go nestea & good job to both the guys who advanced!
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On June 12 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 23:00 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:58 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:57 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:43 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Playing in Korea, for NA and EU players, requires that you leave your home, family, and friends behind and go live for long periods of time in an environment with a different language, culture, and community and an insulated life-style. That works for Naniwa. It doesn't work for the vast majority of NA and EU players. The sacrifice NA and EU players have to make to stay in Korea for months on ends is tiers above what Korean players have to do when they go to a weekend MLG. Hell, DRG says he brings food from Korea to eat in MLGs because he doesn't enjoy the food in America. You think Naniwa has that option? Being the best in the world at something is obviously going to require hard work and sacrifice. It's not an excuse for affirmative action. You don't quite get it. Without seeds, nobody from NA / EU aside from a few expats who enjoy being in Korea for the sake of being in Korea is going to bother with the GSL. Without international players, GSL is not an international tournament. They will bother because A) They want to prove themselves in the best tournament and B) You become the best by living in Korea in a Korean house in which case you may as well play GSL anyway. That's why out of all the pros in the NA / EU scene, we have a grand total of 3-4 of them living in Korea for long periods of time, half of whom are there because of seeds, amirite? There's actually loads of foreigners in Korea right now but aside from Stephano basically all the top foreigners have tried at some point but they've generally just been raped in Code A and gone home, if they were good enough they'd have stayed.
When a Korean player tries and fails to get into Code A, he tries and tries again until he gets in. That's what they're able to do because they live there and it costs next to nothing to qualify for Code A.
When a NA / EU player tries and fails to get into Code A, he has just wasted >$2000 of his team's money. Do you understand how different the situation is?
Top NA / EU players are able to get a month in Korea here and there. Nobody else is given an opportunity. Plenty of pros have spoken about the logistical difficulty of trying to qualify for Code A for NA / EU players because GOM won't hold online qualifiers despite MLG, IPL, etc. holding them for Korean players all the fucking time.
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On June 12 2012 23:28 MyFirstProbe wrote:
I dont see the big deal about the whole "NaniWa not deserving his seed"-thing, because by GOM rules he has qualified for this season just like Mvp, Squirtle, Hero, Taeja, Parting, Oz and Supernova did.
Well, he won, so it's difficult to call him bad. This is the next best thing. TL is always really funny when a hated player like Naniwa wins, you can almost feel the repressed anger in some of these posts.
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Biggest winner of the day is clearly wolf!
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On June 12 2012 23:43 foen wrote:
Biggest winner of the day is clearly wolf!
I thought that was his.....sister????
god I hope not that'll be sooooooooooooo awwwwkward
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On June 12 2012 23:43 foen wrote:
Biggest winner of the day is clearly wolf!
he should get a code s seed!
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NANIWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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On June 12 2012 23:45 ref4 wrote:I thought that was his.....sister???? god I hope not that'll be sooooooooooooo awwwwkward
lol i'm curious now...
Naniwa fighting!
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On June 12 2012 23:34 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 23:00 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:58 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:57 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:43 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
I don't mind seeds/invites for Dreamhack, Assembly and other lesser tournaments because there's obviously not enough times for players to qualify for everything and still practice and attend LAN's (although all tournaments should ideally have some form of online/offline qualifier or open bracket and I prefer online qualifiers more like MLG do).
But GSL is different, GSL is the premier tournament for the best of the best where winning Code S means far more than winning any other tournament.
Code S should be the one untouchable where only players who've made it through the Code A and ideally Code B (although I can live with foreigner Code B seeds) should be included. What I hate especially is Thorzain's invite, the tournament he won wasn't even comparable to the difficulty of Code B nevermind Code A, he has absolutely no right getting that invite. Idra and Sen's invites were just a total farce.
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree. As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds. On June 12 2012 22:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
If as a professional player you can't be bothered to put in the commitment to qualify for the World Cup of Starcraft I don't think that says much of you as a player.
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Playing in Korea, for NA and EU players, requires that you leave your home, family, and friends behind and go live for long periods of time in an environment with a different language, culture, and community and an insulated life-style. That works for Naniwa. It doesn't work for the vast majority of NA and EU players. The sacrifice NA and EU players have to make to stay in Korea for months on ends is tiers above what Korean players have to do when they go to a weekend MLG. Hell, DRG says he brings food from Korea to eat in MLGs because he doesn't enjoy the food in America. You think Naniwa has that option? Being the best in the world at something is obviously going to require hard work and sacrifice. It's not an excuse for affirmative action. You don't quite get it. Without seeds, nobody from NA / EU aside from a few expats who enjoy being in Korea for the sake of being in Korea is going to bother with the GSL. Without international players, GSL is not an international tournament. They will bother because A) They want to prove themselves in the best tournament and B) You become the best by living in Korea in a Korean house in which case you may as well play GSL anyway. That's why out of all the pros in the NA / EU scene, we have a grand total of 3-4 of them living in Korea for long periods of time, half of whom are there because of seeds, amirite? There's actually loads of foreigners in Korea right now but aside from Stephano basically all the top foreigners have tried at some point but they've generally just been raped in Code A and gone home, if they were good enough they'd have stayed. When a Korean player tries and fails to get into Code A, he tries and tries again until he gets in. That's what they're able to do because they live there and it costs next to nothing to qualify for Code A. When a NA / EU player tries and fails to get into Code A, he has just wasted >$2000 of his team's money. Do you understand how different the situation is? Top NA / EU players are able to get a month in Korea here and there. Nobody else is given an opportunity. Plenty of pros have spoken about the logistical difficulty of trying to qualify for Code A for NA / EU players because GOM won't hold online qualifiers despite MLG, IPL, etc. holding them for Korean players all the fucking time.
Only an offline qualifier guarantees cheatfree games. Its just that simple.
Look how poorly NASL Season 2 went (with a few koreans who were on foreign teams). MLG and Co are always claiming to have the worlds best players, not inviting/helping/having korean players would be a disaster for them. (Just take the difference of crowd noise levels at MLG during the WCS National and the Finals as an indicator what the sc2 fans want to see)
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On June 12 2012 23:28 MyFirstProbe wrote:
I dont see the big deal about the whole "NaniWa not deserving his seed"-thing, because by GOM rules he has qualified for this season just like Mvp, Squirtle, Hero, Taeja, Parting, Oz and Supernova did.
Basicly this, he himself said he did not deserve the slot last season. This season how ever he's earned it 100% by beating players who thought him weak and finishing in the top 8.
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On June 12 2012 23:57 gingerfluffmuff wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 23:34 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 23:00 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:58 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:57 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:43 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:31 hefty wrote:
[quote]
You have the right to believe that code S should not have seeds. It is jusr very subjective and I feel most would disagree.
As for "farce invites". Sure, they will occur, but at least the players that are not worthy will get crushed quickly. That also serves the purpose of quelching the voices that overhype them on false grounds.
[quote]
Don't agree here either. A professional player has to think of his career. has to ensure his income. Spending months in Korea for a small shot at the most competitive tourney is rather irrational when that player could have a decent shot at numerous other money prizes around the world. You may argue that if he is a true champ, he would want to try himself out in the most competive arena. Perhabs, but that is only feasible for someone really, really good with a great finansial backing. Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Playing in Korea, for NA and EU players, requires that you leave your home, family, and friends behind and go live for long periods of time in an environment with a different language, culture, and community and an insulated life-style. That works for Naniwa. It doesn't work for the vast majority of NA and EU players. The sacrifice NA and EU players have to make to stay in Korea for months on ends is tiers above what Korean players have to do when they go to a weekend MLG. Hell, DRG says he brings food from Korea to eat in MLGs because he doesn't enjoy the food in America. You think Naniwa has that option? Being the best in the world at something is obviously going to require hard work and sacrifice. It's not an excuse for affirmative action. You don't quite get it. Without seeds, nobody from NA / EU aside from a few expats who enjoy being in Korea for the sake of being in Korea is going to bother with the GSL. Without international players, GSL is not an international tournament. They will bother because A) They want to prove themselves in the best tournament and B) You become the best by living in Korea in a Korean house in which case you may as well play GSL anyway. That's why out of all the pros in the NA / EU scene, we have a grand total of 3-4 of them living in Korea for long periods of time, half of whom are there because of seeds, amirite? There's actually loads of foreigners in Korea right now but aside from Stephano basically all the top foreigners have tried at some point but they've generally just been raped in Code A and gone home, if they were good enough they'd have stayed. When a Korean player tries and fails to get into Code A, he tries and tries again until he gets in. That's what they're able to do because they live there and it costs next to nothing to qualify for Code A. When a NA / EU player tries and fails to get into Code A, he has just wasted >$2000 of his team's money. Do you understand how different the situation is? Top NA / EU players are able to get a month in Korea here and there. Nobody else is given an opportunity. Plenty of pros have spoken about the logistical difficulty of trying to qualify for Code A for NA / EU players because GOM won't hold online qualifiers despite MLG, IPL, etc. holding them for Korean players all the fucking time. Only an offline qualifier guarantees cheatfree games. Its just that simple. Look how poorly NASL Season 2 went (with a few koreans who were on foreign teams). MLG and Co are always claiming to have the worlds best players, not inviting/helping/having korean players would be a disaster for them. (Just take the difference of crowd noise levels at MLG during the WCS National and the Finals as an indicator what the sc2 fans want to see)
Every NA / EU international tournament that uses qualifiers use online qualifiers out of necessity. Yes, cheating is unfortunately rampant, but there are ways to guard against it - don't stream live games, ban observers except for admins, and have the referees review every replay for hack use. Then there's the option of holding these qualifiers in designated local locations with computers provided by trusted admins, but that's expensive.
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On June 13 2012 00:05 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 23:57 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On June 12 2012 23:34 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 23:00 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:58 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:57 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 12 2012 22:43 Azarkon wrote:On June 12 2012 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
Because playing in Korea means you can't play in foreign tournaments right? Look at MC, Huk, MMA, DRG, MKP. They all play every GSL season but have made 10s of tousands from foreign tournaments. Playing in GSL raises your profile as a player too (just look at Sase who had zero results but just losing to random Zergs in Code A meant he got invited to everything over guys like Nerchio and Mana who stayed in EU and actually won stuff) and lets you get into more tournaments, gets you more fans and improves your career prospects. Playing in Korea, for NA and EU players, requires that you leave your home, family, and friends behind and go live for long periods of time in an environment with a different language, culture, and community and an insulated life-style. That works for Naniwa. It doesn't work for the vast majority of NA and EU players. The sacrifice NA and EU players have to make to stay in Korea for months on ends is tiers above what Korean players have to do when they go to a weekend MLG. Hell, DRG says he brings food from Korea to eat in MLGs because he doesn't enjoy the food in America. You think Naniwa has that option? Being the best in the world at something is obviously going to require hard work and sacrifice. It's not an excuse for affirmative action. You don't quite get it. Without seeds, nobody from NA / EU aside from a few expats who enjoy being in Korea for the sake of being in Korea is going to bother with the GSL. Without international players, GSL is not an international tournament. They will bother because A) They want to prove themselves in the best tournament and B) You become the best by living in Korea in a Korean house in which case you may as well play GSL anyway. That's why out of all the pros in the NA / EU scene, we have a grand total of 3-4 of them living in Korea for long periods of time, half of whom are there because of seeds, amirite? There's actually loads of foreigners in Korea right now but aside from Stephano basically all the top foreigners have tried at some point but they've generally just been raped in Code A and gone home, if they were good enough they'd have stayed. When a Korean player tries and fails to get into Code A, he tries and tries again until he gets in. That's what they're able to do because they live there and it costs next to nothing to qualify for Code A. When a NA / EU player tries and fails to get into Code A, he has just wasted >$2000 of his team's money. Do you understand how different the situation is? Top NA / EU players are able to get a month in Korea here and there. Nobody else is given an opportunity. Plenty of pros have spoken about the logistical difficulty of trying to qualify for Code A for NA / EU players because GOM won't hold online qualifiers despite MLG, IPL, etc. holding them for Korean players all the fucking time. Only an offline qualifier guarantees cheatfree games. Its just that simple. Look how poorly NASL Season 2 went (with a few koreans who were on foreign teams). MLG and Co are always claiming to have the worlds best players, not inviting/helping/having korean players would be a disaster for them. (Just take the difference of crowd noise levels at MLG during the WCS National and the Finals as an indicator what the sc2 fans want to see) Every NA / EU international tournament that uses qualifiers use online qualifiers out of necessity. Yes, cheating is unfortunately rampant, but there are ways to guard against it - don't stream live games, ban observers except for admins, and have the referees review every replay for hack use. Then there's the option of holding these qualifiers in designated local locations with computers provided by trusted admins, but that's expensive.
People don't know this but ESL is actually known for banning hackers even for minor offenses. Online qualifiers is a viable solution.
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Would people consider NaNiwa a "StarTale" Protoss? He would be wouldn't he since he has lived and trained there for such a long time and would SaSe count as well?
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On June 13 2012 00:11 [17]Purple wrote:
Would people consider NaNiwa a "StarTale" Protoss? He would be wouldn't he since he has lived and trained there for such a long time and would SaSe count as well?
Not officially. He does seem to be friends with Squirtle, Ace etc. So maybe emotionally!
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Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck
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On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck
needs to show his pvz skill still
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On June 13 2012 00:15 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:11 [17]Purple wrote:
Would people consider NaNiwa a "StarTale" Protoss? He would be wouldn't he since he has lived and trained there for such a long time and would SaSe count as well? Not officially. He does seem to be friends with Squirtle, Ace etc. So maybe emotionally!
Well he competes in the GSTL under the StartaleQ banner and he lives in their house. I think it's fair to call him a Startale Protoss.
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EPT
