EPT[GSTL] S2 R1 Group A Losers' Match - Page 150
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
|
Azuroz
Sweden1630 Posts
| ||
|
1st_Panzer_Div.
United States621 Posts
| ||
|
IceSlipper
Australia1028 Posts
To me it just seemed like (aside from hero in the last few games) the TL guys were never the aggressors.. Always just sitting back and trying to defend whatever the other players threw at them. Fair enough to play reactionary, but to me it just looked like they lacked confidence and were basically trying to hold off whatever the koreans sent at them. This could be seen in the first match where Life punished them with greedy build after greedy build. And in this match where several of the guys fell to timing attacks/sentry drops. Would have loved for one of them (jinro, tlo, haypro) to have come out with a map specific prepared cheese or timing attack rather than just play off the back foot. I haven't read the entire thread, and dont know the specifics but the jinro game stood out to me today as an example of this. Tassadar went for the hidden stargate/void ray play, and after scouting it perfectly, Jinro looked to be in a great position, proceeded to turtle up against the phoenix harass and allow his opponent to take a huge economic advantage in a game he should have been well behind. I do think TL can be competitive in time, but they should look to sign at least one more korean. Hero played really well and i feel was unlucky with the way things went in the last game. If taeja had taken down tassadar (was in a decent position to do so for a considerable amount of time) this match could have looked very different. With the current available roster in korea i think Zenio should be saved for later in the match in the future. And with the zerg heavy line up i think it has to be TLO/haypro to open, although sending a zerg out first is very predictable for TL at the moment. But with Zenio out first, once the match gets into the later stages, TL no longer has a top level Z they can send out. If it were up to me, I'd see TL sign another korean P. Start with a korean, and use the foreigners strictly as map specific/matchup specific snipers. Sending out guys like haypro (no offense to the guy), against high level koreans with no specific strategy/pre planned map of how the game should go, just isnt going to work because these guys are just on another level when it comes to standard play/mechanics. Too bad we wont get to see them in action again this season. I hope they stick around for another and look at add another 1, maybe 2 koreans. Would hate to see the team turn too korean heavy as alot of the entertainment/support comes from having a foreigner heavy team. I think one or two more koreans would see TL become very competitive. Just my 2c, feel free to shoot me down, point out where im wrong and call me an idiot! | ||
|
ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On June 01 2012 02:28 IceSlipper wrote: Just got around to watching the vods and thought id point out a trend i noticed with the TL guys in both of their matches. To me it just seemed like (aside from hero in the last few games) the TL guys were never the aggressors.. Always just sitting back and trying to defend whatever the other players threw at them. Fair enough to play reactionary, but to me it just looked like they lacked confidence and were basically trying to hold off whatever the koreans sent at them. This could be seen in the first match where Life punished them with greedy build after greedy build. And in this match where several of the guys fell to timing attacks/sentry drops. Would have loved for one of them (jinro, tlo, haypro) to have come out with a map specific prepared cheese or timing attack rather than just play off the back foot. I haven't read the entire thread, and dont know the specifics but the jinro game stood out to me today as an example of this. Tassadar went for the hidden stargate/void ray play, and after scouting it perfectly, Jinro looked to be in a great position, proceeded to turtle up against the phoenix harass and allow his opponent to take a huge economic advantage in a game he should have been well behind. I do think TL can be competitive in time, but they should look to sign at least one more korean. Hero played really well and i feel was unlucky with the way things went in the last game. If taeja had taken down tassadar (was in a decent position to do so for a considerable amount of time) this match could have looked very different. With the current available roster in korea i think Zenio should be saved for later in the match in the future. And with the zerg heavy line up i think it has to be TLO/haypro to open, although sending a zerg out first is very predictable for TL at the moment. But with Zenio out first, once the match gets into the later stages, TL no longer has a top level Z they can send out. If it were up to me, I'd see TL sign another korean P. Start with a korean, and use the foreigners strictly as map specific/matchup specific snipers. Sending out guys like haypro (no offense to the guy), against high level koreans with no specific strategy/pre planned map of how the game should go, just isnt going to work because these guys are just on another level when it comes to standard play/mechanics. Too bad we wont get to see them in action again this season. I hope they stick around for another and look at add another 1, maybe 2 koreans. Would hate to see the team turn too korean heavy as alot of the entertainment/support comes from having a foreigner heavy team. I think one or two more koreans would see TL become very competitive. Just my 2c, feel free to shoot me down, point out where im wrong and call me an idiot! You are an idiot! J/K... agree with you on TLO Haypro Jinro should throw some curveball in there. I think TL has a good shot to compete if Ret and Sheth were with the team, but I guess it's hard (and very expensive) for a non-Korean team to station so many people there for long periods of time. | ||
|
IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
I also agree that they should have had a player or two have a cheese ready to go but haypro and jinro never cheese much and maybe would have felt more out of place | ||
|
ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On June 01 2012 02:49 IamPryda wrote: So does anyone think trading sheth and ret for haypro and jinro would have made a difference? I know it's not fair to completely slam liquid with there short prep time and smaller lineup but to get 3 wins in two games is a little embarrassing Probably not win either match, but at least they'd be better prepared. Also I don't think trading Sheth and Ret, but rather have 8 people rather than 6, so their hands are not completely tied by having paper thin line up. | ||
|
Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
| ||
|
crms
United States11933 Posts
On June 01 2012 02:08 polyphonyEX wrote: He feasted on 3 koreans and 3 foreigners. 2 of them being top level code s players. Not an especially shocking result, but you've got to give credit where credit is due. my post had nothing to do with diminishing tassadar, was more an observation on how he shit canned TL's non-koreans, they never had a chance. | ||
|
Zinnwaldite
Norway1567 Posts
| ||
|
Vardant
Czech Republic620 Posts
On June 01 2012 03:01 Hardigan wrote: i thought sheth doesn't want to go to korea or a team house in korea? I thought that was the reason he left fxo Yup, I think he said something about having his own place or otherwise it wouldn't work for him. I totally understand that. | ||
|
ref4
2933 Posts
On May 31 2012 21:52 ZenithM wrote: Yes, it's what I'm feeling as well from Liquid and other foreign teams. However, I like to believe that in the future, being charismatic as a player will be a bonus to your immense skill at Starcraft (as it was the case for Kespa BW players), not the other way around. I don't see "speaking in talk shows", "having a cool hairstyle", "trash talking any opponent you cross paths with" or "messing around in platinum trolling newbies" as sustainable ways of a progamer. Eventually people start to criticize when you don't show any result, while they just can't blame you for being boring if you're the best player in the world. I mean, MVP could be the most boring dude ever, he would still be cool just because he has 4 motherfucking GSL titles... even IF MVP has the personality of a rock.......jesus dat smile.....instantly melts any heterosexual man's heart <3 | ||
|
Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
On June 01 2012 04:01 ref4 wrote: even IF MVP has the personality of a rock.......jesus dat smile.....instantly melts any heterosexual man's heart <3 Indeed | ||
|
Cyanocyst
2222 Posts
He acted as if a pool of Zerglings at the top of the ramp was enough to stop this. If this were true, it doesn't seem like Toss players would go for as much if that is all it takes to be stopped. Also If you do the build with blink, couldn't the Toss just blink the stalkers in, to be fodder for the lings, then drop the sentries relatively safely? Sure its not as smooth, but seems perfectly viable. If Toss players would like to elaborate better than Wolf did, i would appreciate that. | ||
|
neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
On June 01 2012 04:01 ref4 wrote: even IF MVP has the personality of a rock.......jesus dat smile.....instantly melts any heterosexual man's heart <3 mancrushing a bit hard, are we? Have you seen  Reach?He doesn't have to smile to melt hearts. | ||
|
TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
I obviously can't tell TL where it should be headed in the future. But here's my thoughts: I would say that recruiting more Koreans, of Terran and Protoss, would not be a bad idea. TL has a strong Zerg line-up (Zenio, TLO, Ret, and Sheth can all beat Code A level players), but without fleshing out the roster with more Terran and Protoss (whether they choose foreigners or zerg), TL will be handicapped in team leagues. Furthermore, I think TL has a responsibility to serve by its current players the best it can, and to keep an eye out on possible upcomers (Korean or foreign) as well as proven standards (like the Taeja-Hero-Zenio-Huk pick ups) - because I think all the teams out there have a responsibility to help E-sports grow by giving new, younger players a chance. However, Liquid'Supernova would be amazing =) | ||
|
ref4
2933 Posts
On May 31 2012 20:48 SkullZ9 wrote: Well, i really don't like his style. Bad isn't the right word though, i just don't like how he never plays macro game... Always gimmicky play or allin. But that's a subjective preference from me  as opposed to the "standard" macro games foreigners play but still get utterly demolished by "standard" macro Korean players? | ||
|
Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On June 01 2012 04:54 TheRealPaciFist wrote: @ Discussion about future of TL and what kind of players to recruit: I obviously can't tell TL where it should be headed in the future. But here's my thoughts: I would say that recruiting more Koreans, of Terran and Protoss, would not be a bad idea. TL has a strong Zerg line-up (Zenio, TLO, Ret, and Sheth can all beat Code A level players), but without fleshing out the roster with more Terran and Protoss (whether they choose foreigners or zerg), TL will be handicapped in team leagues. Furthermore, I think TL has a responsibility to serve by its current players the best it can, and to keep an eye out on possible upcomers (Korean or foreign) as well as proven standards (like the Taeja-Hero-Zenio-Huk pick ups) - because I think all the teams out there have a responsibility to help E-sports grow by giving new, younger players a chance. However, Liquid'Supernova would be amazing =) You can't simply just recruit players out of nowhere. They cost salaries, and additional expenses to send them abroad to tournaments, housing, etc. TL is not made out of money, and it would be hard for it to aggressively expand its roster. You talk about picking up new talent, yet also a "responsiblility to serve by its current players". I agree with you that both are important, but with limited financial resources, both tasks cannot be undertaken to the fullest. Either way, I think all this talk about recruiting more Koreans is simply the "easy way out" mentality. What happened to working more with the existing team members? Liquid also could have done much better if they had better preparation, and brought in their full roster to both matches. | ||
|
iGoTThiZ
103 Posts
On June 01 2012 05:14 Bagration wrote: You can't simply just recruit players out of nowhere. They cost salaries, and additional expenses to send them abroad to tournaments, housing, etc. TL is not made out of money, and it would be hard for it to aggressively expand its roster. You talk about picking up new talent, yet also a "responsiblility to serve by its current players". I agree with you that both are important, but with limited financial resources, both tasks cannot be undertaken to the fullest. Either way, I think all this talk about recruiting more Koreans is simply the "easy way out" mentality. What happened to working more with the existing team members? Liquid also could have done much better if they had better preparation, and brought in their full roster to both matches. Woking more with existing members? Jinro has been in the team since the first GSL and gets knocked out of foreign tournaments by nobody's. They need to end this care bear attitude and get rid of unmotivated, bad players if they want to compete in Korea. It is mind boggling how such a big name team has such bad players. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
| ||
|
andReslic
216 Posts
| ||
| ||
