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On June 05 2012 05:08 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 05:06 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:03 dani` wrote:On June 05 2012 05:00 Phobbers wrote:On June 05 2012 04:54 Nerchio wrote:
I watched the replays more carefully and it looks like a lot of points that OP makes are false, for example 4 scv's at shakuras plateau, he took them after he saw marine in his natural. Also a lot of movement on Tal'darim looks like standard mech play with taking good spots for tanks. Other than that we should assume that Spades is not the best player so moving your army without care isn't anything special. He can also use mini-map to send his scouting worker, i do that sometimes as well. In the end i don't really think it's cheating there is a lot of points that are not true and the rest we can include into luck which happens quite often in SC2. Don't jump on the witch hunt so soon folks. Nerchio took a look at the replays and tossed up his opinion on it. After which the thread was immediately closed by a mod. I don't know about that, the OP of the thread provided an insanely detailed log of 'suspicious actions', and while I agree not all of them were true it is quite weird to insta-close a thread based on 1 pro opinion? I hope the thread can be re-opened. mod said *until a pro disagrees* its closed. i think thats fair enough. why should the opinion of 1 pro be enough to close it? Is said pro somehow smarter than everybody else when it comes to matters of hacking? Its likely OP of that thread exaggeratted some points, but some points were not exaggerated. I think the closing of the thread was a bit early and more to avoid a mass witch hunt, even though the witch hunt might be correct. Anybody else notice that the mod that closed it said something along the lines of "the OP has ties to lucifron". That comment seemed to come entirely out of left field
Website feedback is that way.
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On June 05 2012 05:00 Phobbers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 04:54 Nerchio wrote:
I watched the replays more carefully and it looks like a lot of points that OP makes are false, for example 4 scv's at shakuras plateau, he took them after he saw marine in his natural. Also a lot of movement on Tal'darim looks like standard mech play with taking good spots for tanks. Other than that we should assume that Spades is not the best player so moving your army without care isn't anything special. He can also use mini-map to send his scouting worker, i do that sometimes as well. In the end i don't really think it's cheating there is a lot of points that are not true and the rest we can include into luck which happens quite often in SC2. Don't jump on the witch hunt so soon folks. Nerchio took a look at the replays and tossed up his opinion on it.
Exactly, Nerchio is a big expert so we should wait his opinion.
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On June 05 2012 05:03 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 05:00 Phobbers wrote:On June 05 2012 04:54 Nerchio wrote:
I watched the replays more carefully and it looks like a lot of points that OP makes are false, for example 4 scv's at shakuras plateau, he took them after he saw marine in his natural. Also a lot of movement on Tal'darim looks like standard mech play with taking good spots for tanks. Other than that we should assume that Spades is not the best player so moving your army without care isn't anything special. He can also use mini-map to send his scouting worker, i do that sometimes as well. In the end i don't really think it's cheating there is a lot of points that are not true and the rest we can include into luck which happens quite often in SC2. Don't jump on the witch hunt so soon folks. Nerchio took a look at the replays and tossed up his opinion on it. After which the thread was immediately closed by a mod. I don't know about that, the OP of the thread provided an insanely detailed log of 'suspicious actions', and while I agree not all of them were true it is quite weird to insta-close a thread based on 1 pro opinion? I hope the thread can be re-opened.
Why is it strange that they closed the thread after gaining an opinion from one pro? I bet you the majority of people in that thread never once watched the replay but still yelled Hacker! It's a stupid witch hunt that won't do any good other than attempt to ruin the career of a progamer.
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On June 05 2012 05:13 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 05:08 ExO_ wrote:On June 05 2012 05:06 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:03 dani` wrote:On June 05 2012 05:00 Phobbers wrote:On June 05 2012 04:54 Nerchio wrote:
I watched the replays more carefully and it looks like a lot of points that OP makes are false, for example 4 scv's at shakuras plateau, he took them after he saw marine in his natural. Also a lot of movement on Tal'darim looks like standard mech play with taking good spots for tanks. Other than that we should assume that Spades is not the best player so moving your army without care isn't anything special. He can also use mini-map to send his scouting worker, i do that sometimes as well. In the end i don't really think it's cheating there is a lot of points that are not true and the rest we can include into luck which happens quite often in SC2. Don't jump on the witch hunt so soon folks. Nerchio took a look at the replays and tossed up his opinion on it. After which the thread was immediately closed by a mod. I don't know about that, the OP of the thread provided an insanely detailed log of 'suspicious actions', and while I agree not all of them were true it is quite weird to insta-close a thread based on 1 pro opinion? I hope the thread can be re-opened. mod said *until a pro disagrees* its closed. i think thats fair enough. why should the opinion of 1 pro be enough to close it? Is said pro somehow smarter than everybody else when it comes to matters of hacking? Its likely OP of that thread exaggeratted some points, but some points were not exaggerated. I think the closing of the thread was a bit early and more to avoid a mass witch hunt, even though the witch hunt might be correct. Anybody else notice that the mod that closed it said something along the lines of "the OP has ties to lucifron". That comment seemed to come entirely out of left field its not enough to close it indefinitely, its enough to PAUSE (something that the community cannot do), TAKE A SECOND LOOK (something else the community cant do), and REJUDGE the accusation (something that the community wont do without it being closed), BEFORE saying he hacked. i still think its debatable and i do not fully agree with Nerchio but I am going to wait for more pro opinions, because why? They do actually know better than you when it comes to what actions at a high level of play could be suspicious.
I think it's safe to say you don't need to be a high level player to understand a few fundamental things: Never looking in fog of war is strange. Stranger, is the camera pausing in certain areas of your base for more than 1-2 seconds with no actions being issued, espicially as the game gets past the early game. I'm not currently at home so I cannot review the replays for myself, but I'm going to assume that at least the camera lock bits in the OP were true....otherwise it'll be obvious they aren't and this will all go away quickly anyway.
That being said, your putting too much faith in a pro gamer. A pro gamer is just a guy like you and me. The only area in which a pro's opinion would be more valid than somebody with a decent level of game knowledge would be with specific army movements, build orders, strategies, etc....none of which are what I would consider the "evidence" in this case. People get lucky and spot things all the time, or randomly move their troops to the right place at the right time. Camera locks and never looking in fog....that seems highly unusual to me.
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So what happens when you scan with this camerablock thing? Do you scan without seeing or just go to the fog of war then?
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On June 05 2012 05:17 IMoperator wrote:
The only thing I caught that might have been hacking was when Spades made a raven in the last game, basically countering lucifron's build. The caster even said "wow, how did spades know that?" or something to that effect. But that could just be him knowing how Luci plays and countering it.
DieStar made Raven in TvT almost every time. It's a viable opening specially against somone who is doing a lot of banshee openings.
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On June 05 2012 05:18 ngri wrote:
So what happens when you scan with this camerablock thing? Do you scan without seeing or just go to the fog of war then?
that's a very good question. From what I read (again, assuming the OP didn't flat out lie in that first post), the camera moved to an area after he scanned it, but was previously locked before that. I think the point he was making was he started reacting to something before he scanned it, then scanned it afterwards. But what's far more interesting to me is the way the camera would move like that (being locked, then suddenly moving to a scanned area without looking at the fog before scanning it). Yes he could've scanned on minimap, and then looked at said area. But its something to take into consideration.
Definetly needs testing and further review.
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On June 05 2012 05:18 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 05:13 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:08 ExO_ wrote:On June 05 2012 05:06 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:03 dani` wrote:On June 05 2012 05:00 Phobbers wrote:On June 05 2012 04:54 Nerchio wrote:
I watched the replays more carefully and it looks like a lot of points that OP makes are false, for example 4 scv's at shakuras plateau, he took them after he saw marine in his natural. Also a lot of movement on Tal'darim looks like standard mech play with taking good spots for tanks. Other than that we should assume that Spades is not the best player so moving your army without care isn't anything special. He can also use mini-map to send his scouting worker, i do that sometimes as well. In the end i don't really think it's cheating there is a lot of points that are not true and the rest we can include into luck which happens quite often in SC2. Don't jump on the witch hunt so soon folks. Nerchio took a look at the replays and tossed up his opinion on it. After which the thread was immediately closed by a mod. I don't know about that, the OP of the thread provided an insanely detailed log of 'suspicious actions', and while I agree not all of them were true it is quite weird to insta-close a thread based on 1 pro opinion? I hope the thread can be re-opened. mod said *until a pro disagrees* its closed. i think thats fair enough. why should the opinion of 1 pro be enough to close it? Is said pro somehow smarter than everybody else when it comes to matters of hacking? Its likely OP of that thread exaggeratted some points, but some points were not exaggerated. I think the closing of the thread was a bit early and more to avoid a mass witch hunt, even though the witch hunt might be correct. Anybody else notice that the mod that closed it said something along the lines of "the OP has ties to lucifron". That comment seemed to come entirely out of left field its not enough to close it indefinitely, its enough to PAUSE (something that the community cannot do), TAKE A SECOND LOOK (something else the community cant do), and REJUDGE the accusation (something that the community wont do without it being closed), BEFORE saying he hacked. i still think its debatable and i do not fully agree with Nerchio but I am going to wait for more pro opinions, because why? They do actually know better than you when it comes to what actions at a high level of play could be suspicious. I think it's safe to say you don't need to be a high level player to understand a few fundamental things: Never looking in fog of war is strange. Stranger, is the camera pausing in certain areas of your base for more than 1-2 seconds with no actions being issued, espicially as the game gets past the early game. I'm not currently at home so I cannot review the replays for myself, but I'm going to assume that at least the camera lock bits in the OP were true....otherwise it'll be obvious they aren't and this will all go away quickly anyway. That being said, your putting too much faith in a pro gamer. A pro gamer is just a guy like you and me. The only area in which a pro's opinion would be more valid than somebody with a decent level of game knowledge would be with specific army movements, build orders, strategies, etc....none of which are what I would consider the "evidence" in this case. People get lucky and spot things all the time, or randomly move their troops to the right place at the right time. Camera locks and never looking in fog....that seems highly unusual to me.
i agree with you in that i was using his knowledge of army movements that was listed as suspicious, to say that maybe he is right and we should RELOOK, not just accuse. im not trying to defend spades here. if this is true i hope hes banned from the community forever to hang out with the likes of deezer/combatex.
however, camera locks could be many things, not just hacking.
the suspicious thing to me, which i agree with you, is never looking in fog (IF he never looked at fog). and i wonder why nerchio didnt say anything about that...
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On June 05 2012 05:18 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 05:13 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:08 ExO_ wrote:On June 05 2012 05:06 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:03 dani` wrote:On June 05 2012 05:00 Phobbers wrote:On June 05 2012 04:54 Nerchio wrote:
I watched the replays more carefully and it looks like a lot of points that OP makes are false, for example 4 scv's at shakuras plateau, he took them after he saw marine in his natural. Also a lot of movement on Tal'darim looks like standard mech play with taking good spots for tanks. Other than that we should assume that Spades is not the best player so moving your army without care isn't anything special. He can also use mini-map to send his scouting worker, i do that sometimes as well. In the end i don't really think it's cheating there is a lot of points that are not true and the rest we can include into luck which happens quite often in SC2. Don't jump on the witch hunt so soon folks. Nerchio took a look at the replays and tossed up his opinion on it. After which the thread was immediately closed by a mod. I don't know about that, the OP of the thread provided an insanely detailed log of 'suspicious actions', and while I agree not all of them were true it is quite weird to insta-close a thread based on 1 pro opinion? I hope the thread can be re-opened. mod said *until a pro disagrees* its closed. i think thats fair enough. why should the opinion of 1 pro be enough to close it? Is said pro somehow smarter than everybody else when it comes to matters of hacking? Its likely OP of that thread exaggeratted some points, but some points were not exaggerated. I think the closing of the thread was a bit early and more to avoid a mass witch hunt, even though the witch hunt might be correct. Anybody else notice that the mod that closed it said something along the lines of "the OP has ties to lucifron". That comment seemed to come entirely out of left field its not enough to close it indefinitely, its enough to PAUSE (something that the community cannot do), TAKE A SECOND LOOK (something else the community cant do), and REJUDGE the accusation (something that the community wont do without it being closed), BEFORE saying he hacked. i still think its debatable and i do not fully agree with Nerchio but I am going to wait for more pro opinions, because why? They do actually know better than you when it comes to what actions at a high level of play could be suspicious. I think it's safe to say you don't need to be a high level player to understand a few fundamental things: Never looking in fog of war is strange. Stranger, is the camera pausing in certain areas of your base for more than 1-2 seconds with no actions being issued, espicially as the game gets past the early game. I'm not currently at home so I cannot review the replays for myself, but I'm going to assume that at least the camera lock bits in the OP were true....otherwise it'll be obvious they aren't and this will all go away quickly anyway. That being said, your putting too much faith in a pro gamer. A pro gamer is just a guy like you and me. The only area in which a pro's opinion would be more valid than somebody with a decent level of game knowledge would be with specific army movements, build orders, strategies, etc....none of which are what I would consider the "evidence" in this case. People get lucky and spot things all the time, or randomly move their troops to the right place at the right time. Camera locks and never looking in fog....that seems highly unusual to me.
Your post directly contradicts itself. You criticize others for "putting too much faith in a pro gamer" when you yourself are blindly believing a one-post anonymous account: On June 05 2012 05:08 ExO_ wrote:I'm not currently at home so I cannot review the replays for myself, but I'm going to assume that at least the camera lock bits in the OP were true
There's a reason why modern legal systems operate under the mantra of "innocent until proven guilty": so stupid witch hunts don't start and tamper with due process and objective investigation. Likewise, the mods/system err on innocence until proven guilty, as this is a person with real reputation and real professional potential that could be irreversibly damaged by bullshit slander. If he is guilty, a pro will eventually come out and review it (Nerchio has already seen it so soon after the thread began, doubtless other pros have and will hear about this thread).
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The whole "camera block" thing is total bull.
Ive watched a couple of the replays and during the so called "blocks" spades is actually issuing commands.
Like in game 1 in that 9 sec "block" he is rearranging his scvs after the banshee harass.
How could he do that if he is supposed to be watching his opponents base?
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On June 05 2012 05:18 ngri wrote:
So what happens when you scan with this camerablock thing? Do you scan without seeing or just go to the fog of war then?
I assume he can look through fog of war all the time, but he doesnt since it is suspicous. So he freezes his cam, it will not move or anything if you check replay but in reality he's looking at the opponents base through fog of war etc.
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On June 05 2012 05:22 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 05:18 ExO_ wrote:On June 05 2012 05:13 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:08 ExO_ wrote:On June 05 2012 05:06 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:03 dani` wrote:On June 05 2012 05:00 Phobbers wrote:On June 05 2012 04:54 Nerchio wrote:
I watched the replays more carefully and it looks like a lot of points that OP makes are false, for example 4 scv's at shakuras plateau, he took them after he saw marine in his natural. Also a lot of movement on Tal'darim looks like standard mech play with taking good spots for tanks. Other than that we should assume that Spades is not the best player so moving your army without care isn't anything special. He can also use mini-map to send his scouting worker, i do that sometimes as well. In the end i don't really think it's cheating there is a lot of points that are not true and the rest we can include into luck which happens quite often in SC2. Don't jump on the witch hunt so soon folks. Nerchio took a look at the replays and tossed up his opinion on it. After which the thread was immediately closed by a mod. I don't know about that, the OP of the thread provided an insanely detailed log of 'suspicious actions', and while I agree not all of them were true it is quite weird to insta-close a thread based on 1 pro opinion? I hope the thread can be re-opened. mod said *until a pro disagrees* its closed. i think thats fair enough. why should the opinion of 1 pro be enough to close it? Is said pro somehow smarter than everybody else when it comes to matters of hacking? Its likely OP of that thread exaggeratted some points, but some points were not exaggerated. I think the closing of the thread was a bit early and more to avoid a mass witch hunt, even though the witch hunt might be correct. Anybody else notice that the mod that closed it said something along the lines of "the OP has ties to lucifron". That comment seemed to come entirely out of left field its not enough to close it indefinitely, its enough to PAUSE (something that the community cannot do), TAKE A SECOND LOOK (something else the community cant do), and REJUDGE the accusation (something that the community wont do without it being closed), BEFORE saying he hacked. i still think its debatable and i do not fully agree with Nerchio but I am going to wait for more pro opinions, because why? They do actually know better than you when it comes to what actions at a high level of play could be suspicious. I think it's safe to say you don't need to be a high level player to understand a few fundamental things: Never looking in fog of war is strange. Stranger, is the camera pausing in certain areas of your base for more than 1-2 seconds with no actions being issued, espicially as the game gets past the early game. I'm not currently at home so I cannot review the replays for myself, but I'm going to assume that at least the camera lock bits in the OP were true....otherwise it'll be obvious they aren't and this will all go away quickly anyway. That being said, your putting too much faith in a pro gamer. A pro gamer is just a guy like you and me. The only area in which a pro's opinion would be more valid than somebody with a decent level of game knowledge would be with specific army movements, build orders, strategies, etc....none of which are what I would consider the "evidence" in this case. People get lucky and spot things all the time, or randomly move their troops to the right place at the right time. Camera locks and never looking in fog....that seems highly unusual to me. Your post directly contradicts itself. You criticize others for "putting too much faith in a pro gamer" when you yourself are blindly believing a one-post anonymous account: Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 05:08 ExO_ wrote:I'm not currently at home so I cannot review the replays for myself, but I'm going to assume that at least the camera lock bits in the OP were true There's a reason why modern legal systems operate under the mantra of "innocent until proven guilty": so stupid witch hunts don't start and tamper with due process and objective investigation. Likewise, the mods/system err on innocence until proven guilty, as this is a person with real reputation and real professional potential that could be irreversibly damaged by bullshit slander. If he is guilty, a pro will eventually come out and review it (Nerchio has already seen it so soon after the thread began, doubtless other pros have and will hear about this thread).
I never said I'm 100% in agreement with the 1 post OP. So let me clearly state I don't think the thread should've been closed off the opinion of 1 pro, and I think the evidence should still be discussed. And again, I'm making a basic assumption that the camera locks and not looking in fog of war parts of the replay are true. Do you really think this is such an unreasonable assumption? I will ofc review the replays when I get home, but in my opinion if at least these parts of the OP's post aren't true then it's just flat out lying and it won't matter anyway.
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On June 05 2012 05:30 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 05:22 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On June 05 2012 05:18 ExO_ wrote:On June 05 2012 05:13 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:08 ExO_ wrote:On June 05 2012 05:06 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:03 dani` wrote:On June 05 2012 05:00 Phobbers wrote:On June 05 2012 04:54 Nerchio wrote:
I watched the replays more carefully and it looks like a lot of points that OP makes are false, for example 4 scv's at shakuras plateau, he took them after he saw marine in his natural. Also a lot of movement on Tal'darim looks like standard mech play with taking good spots for tanks. Other than that we should assume that Spades is not the best player so moving your army without care isn't anything special. He can also use mini-map to send his scouting worker, i do that sometimes as well. In the end i don't really think it's cheating there is a lot of points that are not true and the rest we can include into luck which happens quite often in SC2. Don't jump on the witch hunt so soon folks. Nerchio took a look at the replays and tossed up his opinion on it. After which the thread was immediately closed by a mod. I don't know about that, the OP of the thread provided an insanely detailed log of 'suspicious actions', and while I agree not all of them were true it is quite weird to insta-close a thread based on 1 pro opinion? I hope the thread can be re-opened. mod said *until a pro disagrees* its closed. i think thats fair enough. why should the opinion of 1 pro be enough to close it? Is said pro somehow smarter than everybody else when it comes to matters of hacking? Its likely OP of that thread exaggeratted some points, but some points were not exaggerated. I think the closing of the thread was a bit early and more to avoid a mass witch hunt, even though the witch hunt might be correct. Anybody else notice that the mod that closed it said something along the lines of "the OP has ties to lucifron". That comment seemed to come entirely out of left field its not enough to close it indefinitely, its enough to PAUSE (something that the community cannot do), TAKE A SECOND LOOK (something else the community cant do), and REJUDGE the accusation (something that the community wont do without it being closed), BEFORE saying he hacked. i still think its debatable and i do not fully agree with Nerchio but I am going to wait for more pro opinions, because why? They do actually know better than you when it comes to what actions at a high level of play could be suspicious. I think it's safe to say you don't need to be a high level player to understand a few fundamental things: Never looking in fog of war is strange. Stranger, is the camera pausing in certain areas of your base for more than 1-2 seconds with no actions being issued, espicially as the game gets past the early game. I'm not currently at home so I cannot review the replays for myself, but I'm going to assume that at least the camera lock bits in the OP were true....otherwise it'll be obvious they aren't and this will all go away quickly anyway. That being said, your putting too much faith in a pro gamer. A pro gamer is just a guy like you and me. The only area in which a pro's opinion would be more valid than somebody with a decent level of game knowledge would be with specific army movements, build orders, strategies, etc....none of which are what I would consider the "evidence" in this case. People get lucky and spot things all the time, or randomly move their troops to the right place at the right time. Camera locks and never looking in fog....that seems highly unusual to me. Your post directly contradicts itself. You criticize others for "putting too much faith in a pro gamer" when you yourself are blindly believing a one-post anonymous account: On June 05 2012 05:08 ExO_ wrote:I'm not currently at home so I cannot review the replays for myself, but I'm going to assume that at least the camera lock bits in the OP were true There's a reason why modern legal systems operate under the mantra of "innocent until proven guilty": so stupid witch hunts don't start and tamper with due process and objective investigation. Likewise, the mods/system err on innocence until proven guilty, as this is a person with real reputation and real professional potential that could be irreversibly damaged by bullshit slander. If he is guilty, a pro will eventually come out and review it (Nerchio has already seen it so soon after the thread began, doubtless other pros have and will hear about this thread). I never said I'm 100% in agreement with the 1 post OP. So let me clearly state I don't think the thread should've been closed off the opinion of 1 pro, and I think the evidence should still be discussed. And again, I'm making a basic assumption that the camera locks and not looking in fog of war parts of the replay are true. Do you really think this is such an unreasonable assumption? I will ofc review the replays when I get home, but in my opinion if at least these parts of the OP's post aren't true then it's just flat out lying and it won't matter anyway.
It would have been closed eventually with or without the post from a pro. However his opinion weighs higher than most, especially yours. A person who has not watched the replays yet but wants to continue making an ass out of himself assuming. That's all that thread was turning into, if people care they will continue digging to get the "bust".
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On June 05 2012 05:30 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 05:22 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On June 05 2012 05:18 ExO_ wrote:On June 05 2012 05:13 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:08 ExO_ wrote:On June 05 2012 05:06 nath wrote:On June 05 2012 05:03 dani` wrote:On June 05 2012 05:00 Phobbers wrote:On June 05 2012 04:54 Nerchio wrote:
I watched the replays more carefully and it looks like a lot of points that OP makes are false, for example 4 scv's at shakuras plateau, he took them after he saw marine in his natural. Also a lot of movement on Tal'darim looks like standard mech play with taking good spots for tanks. Other than that we should assume that Spades is not the best player so moving your army without care isn't anything special. He can also use mini-map to send his scouting worker, i do that sometimes as well. In the end i don't really think it's cheating there is a lot of points that are not true and the rest we can include into luck which happens quite often in SC2. Don't jump on the witch hunt so soon folks. Nerchio took a look at the replays and tossed up his opinion on it. After which the thread was immediately closed by a mod. I don't know about that, the OP of the thread provided an insanely detailed log of 'suspicious actions', and while I agree not all of them were true it is quite weird to insta-close a thread based on 1 pro opinion? I hope the thread can be re-opened. mod said *until a pro disagrees* its closed. i think thats fair enough. why should the opinion of 1 pro be enough to close it? Is said pro somehow smarter than everybody else when it comes to matters of hacking? Its likely OP of that thread exaggeratted some points, but some points were not exaggerated. I think the closing of the thread was a bit early and more to avoid a mass witch hunt, even though the witch hunt might be correct. Anybody else notice that the mod that closed it said something along the lines of "the OP has ties to lucifron". That comment seemed to come entirely out of left field its not enough to close it indefinitely, its enough to PAUSE (something that the community cannot do), TAKE A SECOND LOOK (something else the community cant do), and REJUDGE the accusation (something that the community wont do without it being closed), BEFORE saying he hacked. i still think its debatable and i do not fully agree with Nerchio but I am going to wait for more pro opinions, because why? They do actually know better than you when it comes to what actions at a high level of play could be suspicious. I think it's safe to say you don't need to be a high level player to understand a few fundamental things: Never looking in fog of war is strange. Stranger, is the camera pausing in certain areas of your base for more than 1-2 seconds with no actions being issued, espicially as the game gets past the early game. I'm not currently at home so I cannot review the replays for myself, but I'm going to assume that at least the camera lock bits in the OP were true....otherwise it'll be obvious they aren't and this will all go away quickly anyway. That being said, your putting too much faith in a pro gamer. A pro gamer is just a guy like you and me. The only area in which a pro's opinion would be more valid than somebody with a decent level of game knowledge would be with specific army movements, build orders, strategies, etc....none of which are what I would consider the "evidence" in this case. People get lucky and spot things all the time, or randomly move their troops to the right place at the right time. Camera locks and never looking in fog....that seems highly unusual to me. Your post directly contradicts itself. You criticize others for "putting too much faith in a pro gamer" when you yourself are blindly believing a one-post anonymous account: On June 05 2012 05:08 ExO_ wrote:I'm not currently at home so I cannot review the replays for myself, but I'm going to assume that at least the camera lock bits in the OP were true There's a reason why modern legal systems operate under the mantra of "innocent until proven guilty": so stupid witch hunts don't start and tamper with due process and objective investigation. Likewise, the mods/system err on innocence until proven guilty, as this is a person with real reputation and real professional potential that could be irreversibly damaged by bullshit slander. If he is guilty, a pro will eventually come out and review it (Nerchio has already seen it so soon after the thread began, doubtless other pros have and will hear about this thread). I never said I'm 100% in agreement with the 1 post OP. So let me clearly state I don't think the thread should've been closed off the opinion of 1 pro, and I think the evidence should still be discussed. And again, I'm making a basic assumption that the camera locks and not looking in fog of war parts of the replay are true. Do you really think this is such an unreasonable assumption? I will ofc review the replays when I get home, but in my opinion if at least these parts of the OP's post aren't true then it's just flat out lying and it won't matter anyway.
"The whole "camera block" thing is total bull.
Ive watched a couple of the replays and during the so called "blocks" spades is actually issuing commands.
Like in game 1 in that 9 sec "block" he is rearranging his scvs after the banshee harass.
How could he do that if he is supposed to be watching his opponents base?"
not the first post discrediting some of the listed 'camera blocks' (see closed thread for the others)
basically i dont think your assumptions are safe to make. your assumption is 100% tied to the outcome of the judgment. how can that be safe? just watch the replays first o.o THEN you can do w/e
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Spades' play didn't seem that suspicious to me. The OP seems to make an overwhelming case against Spades because of the sheer amount of timestamps, but when you check them point by point they're not nearly as convincing as he is making it sound. It would make basically every pro replay out there look "suspicious" in comparison.
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the 4-3 result alone is susicious, played on the EU server.
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TT1 should take a look at it.
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I don't think that thread should have been closed. Maybe the title and conclusion should be changed, but people need a place to discuss the evidence.
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On June 05 2012 05:42 Saechiis wrote:
Spades' play didn't seem that suspicious to me. The OP seems to make an overwhelming case against Spades because of the sheer amount of timestamps, but when you check them point by point they're not nearly as convincing as he is making it sound. It would make basically every pro replay out there look "suspicious" in comparison.
Yes in an isolated ladder game it wouldn't, but 7 straight games of incredible star sense, correctly scouting his opponent's direction first, and direct build order counters (including Daybreak with the 3rd cc and double e-bay) is suspicious if nothing else. In any case congratulations to Lucifron, gonna look at some more of his replays to help my horribad Terran play 
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EPT
