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On May 22 2012 16:44 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:41 roymarthyup wrote:On May 22 2012 16:37 Sawamura wrote:On May 22 2012 16:36 roymarthyup wrote:
ummm i think your faulting lizzy too hard here
yes he did choose a horrible build but i bet bisu/stork using that horrible build and in situation would have still been in that horrible position given the two builds
lizzy chose to press his attack that pretty much had a 100% chance of failing due to the build order loss
if stork/bisu tries that they would fail just as hard you cannot break that bunker and tank
bisu/stork at that point could have pulled back and tried to power through the disadvantage through macro and skill, however the main problem was it was a pure build order loss and you can either press your attack that has a 100% chance to fail and hope your enemy makes a mistake, or pull back and you are at a 100% disadvantage macro wise and once again hope your vastly better than your enemy to win
not much lizzy could have done there given he decided to press on his failed attack and give it a chance
if flash does CC first and dies to 4pool and looks pathetic while it happens, its the same thing. BO losses exist Stork will open 1 gate goon range rather than 10/15 so no your argument is invalid. wrong. my argument is valid because i never said stork was allowed to use a different build. In my argument i said stork has to use the same build as lizzy, and i said IF stork was retarded enough to use lizzies horrible build, theres no way he could use "skill" to make the build work in that situation if you put stork in that situation, with lizzies retarded build, and expect stork to break that bunker and tank, it wont happen theres no way you can use skill to use that horrible build and end up breaking that bunker/tank. its impossible. lizzy just looked horrible because he thought he would give it a shot and hope maybe he might be able to make something happen even though the game was 100% lost at that point given his horrible build The thing is no Protoss would have gone for a 10/15 build in modern day match up ...... So that's why putting an if Stork or Bisu will do in this situation he would also fail . It's not going to work at all because it's kind of dumb you might as well open up double nexus and go 15 gate way and core at the same time and get the same result with good economy and army.
I don't blame Lizzy for going 10/15 gate. I think it's fine and would've worked well against a Rax Expand. Not that I think any competent terran would rax expand on a rampless map against Lizzy, but it's a good thought.
The difference with Stork or any decent protoss is that they'd see they have no chance, and immediately switch out of the build. Lizzy could've quicklly transitioned to an expansion in the back and use his goons to defend against the first push. It wouldn't be an optimal build, but very playable. And no competent protoss player would've let 3 goons die before withdrawing in his forces in that initial attack.
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On May 22 2012 16:46 PhoenixDark wrote:
This is like first GSL quality play, and even that would be generous. Clearly they need some time to learn the game
really? That TvZ wasn't nearly as bad as the first GSL games let's be honest.
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On May 22 2012 16:46 a9arnn wrote:So lame, KT's (essentially) cheating the system against ACE, it seems kinda unfair to buy these guys up  . ACE better take the next 2 games to smash these guys.
How is it cheating the system? Both teams play by the same rules, KT just seems to have a better stratagy with who they send out what days and matches.
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On May 22 2012 16:48 VENDIZ wrote:
Hmm, I have yet to see a decent terran play in PL.. I get that it's a new game for them, but the protoss & zerg players have shown themselves from a lot better side than the terrans.
Reality is legit.
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On May 22 2012 16:47 IshinShishi wrote:
We are back to terrans not knowing how to split, expect 20% win ratio vs zerg.
-.- don't judge bw pros on ACE, piano is terrible
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On May 22 2012 16:44 alffla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:44 las91 wrote:
Oh man. Busted. Acacia is pretty good man. Also what's with every PL Zerg using infested terrans at any point in time? when are infested terrans supposed to use? (new to sc2 here.)
zvt you should typically only use them as you attack into a siege line (use a few burrow infestor to throw out the eggs to absorb siege tank shots as you charge in).
or (less common) you burrow infestor and go into terran production and throw out bunch of infested terran.
They can be situationally used in battle like if you cant afford a fungal but the reason they usually arent very good is they benefit from range attack upgrade which zergs usually don't get unless they are doing a weird mass roach build. So upgraded marines vs unupgraded infested marines they aren't very effective so fungal is better.
Also used to kill dropships since in infestor based builds you usually don't go muta since both are gas heavy.
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On May 22 2012 16:48 VENDIZ wrote:
Hmm, I have yet to see a decent terran play in PL.. I get that it's a new game for them, but the protoss & zerg players have shown themselves from a lot better side than the terrans.
Very simple and known for a quite while explanation really.
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On May 22 2012 16:48 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:46 PhoenixDark wrote:
This is like first GSL quality play, and even that would be generous. Clearly they need some time to learn the game really? That TvZ wasn't nearly as bad as the first GSL games let's be honest.
The entertainement quality was better because it wasn't just a marine/scv allin or a doubleport banshee. But at least in the first seasons of GSL the builds were thougt out and executed cleanly whilst i get the idea that these BW pro's are just winging it.
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On May 22 2012 16:47 [17]Purple wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:46 PhoenixDark wrote:
This is like first GSL quality play, and even that would be generous. Clearly they need some time to learn the game You obviously did not see the Carriers during the first day
I didn't, what happened? I'd imagine the opponent must have done something wrong to lose to Carriers though
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On May 22 2012 16:48 VENDIZ wrote:
Hmm, I have yet to see a decent terran play in PL.. I get that it's a new game for them, but the protoss & zerg players have shown themselves from a lot better side than the terrans.
Skyhigh looked pretty competent in the TvT he played.
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On May 22 2012 16:48 VENDIZ wrote:
Hmm, I have yet to see a decent terran play in PL.. I get that it's a new game for them, but the protoss & zerg players have shown themselves from a lot better side than the terrans.
Reality was pretty decent
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kt has a plan going. i doubt their sc2 players even touch any bw.
for bw bo3, aim to get 2-0 so lizzy and acacia does not need to appear.
week a: flash, action, lizzy
week a+1: hoejja, stats, acacia
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On May 22 2012 16:48 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:48 VENDIZ wrote:
Hmm, I have yet to see a decent terran play in PL.. I get that it's a new game for them, but the protoss & zerg players have shown themselves from a lot better side than the terrans. Reality is legit.
The build FBH was employing didn't lend itself well to defending Reality's aggressive drop play. Not saying he isn't good, but I think 1 game is a ltittle too soon to say he is "legit".
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On May 22 2012 16:44 alffla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:44 las91 wrote:
Oh man. Busted. Acacia is pretty good man. Also what's with every PL Zerg using infested terrans at any point in time? when are infested terrans supposed to use? (new to sc2 here.)
You can burrow a few infestors and cast IT burrowed. A popular tactic is to burrow them to a base then pop out a lot of it's and ff the cc.
IT also has a lot of non harass uses. IF you go infestors midgame, you're really open to drops, so they're used to kill dropships, to waste tank shots before running in, and some more.
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I mean this in the best way possible, but honestly, a lot of these games are just lolzy. Seeing SC2 pros fail spectacularly at BW, and then seeing the huge skill gap between SC2 pros and BW pros who are still learning the game. I like this proleague format quite a bit, but it's gonna take some time before we actually see mostly competitive games.
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On May 22 2012 16:44 alffla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:44 las91 wrote:
Oh man. Busted. Acacia is pretty good man. Also what's with every PL Zerg using infested terrans at any point in time? when are infested terrans supposed to use? (new to sc2 here.)
When the terran has a big fortified position with a lot of tanks, the zerg burrow 2 or 3 infestors and move them in the middle of all that, then send eggs to the tanks so they splash themselves, and the zerg can send his army without getting decimated by the initial tank volley.
They're also sometimes used to break a protoss front before he has any splash damage. (this was a common build last year, not used for some time tho)
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On May 22 2012 16:48 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:48 VENDIZ wrote:
Hmm, I have yet to see a decent terran play in PL.. I get that it's a new game for them, but the protoss & zerg players have shown themselves from a lot better side than the terrans. Reality is legit.
Yeah Reality was the only one who looked anywhere near decent.
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On May 22 2012 16:50 PhoenixDark wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:47 [17]Purple wrote:On May 22 2012 16:46 PhoenixDark wrote:
This is like first GSL quality play, and even that would be generous. Clearly they need some time to learn the game You obviously did not see the Carriers during the first day I didn't, what happened? I'd imagine the opponent must have done something wrong to lose to Carriers though
Some sort of crazy skytoss carrier/void ray/mothership build.
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On May 22 2012 16:44 alffla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:44 las91 wrote:
Oh man. Busted. Acacia is pretty good man. Also what's with every PL Zerg using infested terrans at any point in time? when are infested terrans supposed to use? (new to sc2 here.)
There are quite a few number of use for infested terrans.
1. It can be used to busted a tank line that is tightly packed. Because tank does AoE to itself, throwing infested terran into clumped tank line will make tanks kill each other. And it also can be used to snipe sieged tank that is left over after the engagement because tank cannot shoot near itself.
2. Medivac snipe. Fungal + infested terran is a way to defend Terran drop if you don't build muta. Because if the medivac is fungaled, they cannot move or unloaded, so it's very effective to deal with drop.
3. Snipe expansion, especially the orbital command one because it can lift off to avoid zergling or roach.
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On May 22 2012 16:50 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 16:48 VENDIZ wrote:
Hmm, I have yet to see a decent terran play in PL.. I get that it's a new game for them, but the protoss & zerg players have shown themselves from a lot better side than the terrans. Skyhigh looked pretty competent in the TvT he played.
Yeah Skyhigh looked good too, at least in TvT.
He crushed Sea pretty badly.
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EPT
