On May 19 2012 21:01 Shaddar wrote: Squirtle's the real winner of the finals in my eyes, seemed like in the first few games he was a bit off, maybe nervous but then found his groove, such a shame about the last game, would have been amazing to have a 4-3 comeback. I don't normally say things like this but I think the better player lost today.
throwing 3 games away like that and you still say the "better" player lost today?
it gets ridiculous :D
Because I think that if Squirtle plays at his peak, like in games 4,5,6 then he's the better player based on what I saw today. MVP just has more experience at dealing with the nerves and being on the finals stage. Nothing ridiculous about it, that series really could have gone either way.
point is he didnt play at his peak, at least not for the first 3 games. he made mistakes which cost him 3 games, and a small one that cost him the 4th, imo he played well in the 3 other games so it was a nice final but saying the best player lost is ridiculous its like saying the best driver in f1 grand prix lost the race after he crashed into a wall
On May 19 2012 20:53 IshinShishi wrote: Except that the terran winning is MVP, he is not just the best terran, he is the best player, but you can keep on blaming whatever you want to blame.
*facepalm*
I'm not BLAMING anything. I'm telling the Terrans whining about Protoss being OP that they can shut up now.
I just got right to the actual point, your blabla about toss having only 2 championships was pretty clear, to which I responded that terran has so much because MVP exists.
Without MVP Terran still has more championships than Protoss.
On May 19 2012 21:03 Adreme wrote: You cant judge pro balance like this. There just arent enough televised games in a short enough span of the best (code S) on the same maps to judge anything. If you are going to judge balance, and I highly recomend you dont, the best method is the "eye test".
My point is facts do not support the widely-accepted allegation of Protoss being OP.
However you want to measure it Terran is at LEAST even. Everything from individual matches to the overall combined pro-level win statistics that regularly get posted up here show that. And yet Terrans abusing Protoss is acceptable because "lol 'toss OP".
Sorry, just pisses me off. Absolutely vile attitude from many people.
Why do you care unless you're GM league, chance is if you're in Diamond and losing to Toss / Terran / Zerg you're pretty bad regardless and should probably fix basic things before whining about overpowered strategys with close to perfect execution and decision making. The fact that you're taking the LR thread seriously is another thing you should stop doing, if you want an example of why not just look for TT1s posts or posts made when Idra loses.
On May 19 2012 21:01 Shaddar wrote: Squirtle's the real winner of the finals in my eyes, seemed like in the first few games he was a bit off, maybe nervous but then found his groove, such a shame about the last game, would have been amazing to have a 4-3 comeback. I don't normally say things like this but I think the better player lost today.
throwing 3 games away like that and you still say the "better" player lost today?
it gets ridiculous :D
Because I think that if Squirtle plays at his peak, like in games 4,5,6 then he's the better player based on what I saw today. MVP just has more experience at dealing with the nerves and being on the finals stage. Nothing ridiculous about it, that series really could have gone either way.
It was close as hell without a doubt, game 7 one of the closest and most nail biting games I've ever witnessed. I thought Squirtle had it after Mvp's first attack got thrown back. I even wrote " Congratulations Mr. President " in the thread thinking it was over, but then Mvp made me look like a fool.
Underestimating Mvp is a mistake players only get to make once.
Seriously I've been to the studio a few times but what i witnessed today was just unreal, and the games? out of this world, MvP got balls, reminds me when boxer cheesed Yellow for the a championship years ago, he built a few marines and pulled all the SCV's off the line and used em as a meat shield to win the game and the series.
A record speaks about the past and not the present. Look at the statistical racial balance in THIS GSL, rather than the curve over the past 2 years. Balance is present, records are past.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just.... silly.
Racial balance this GSL: 15 Terran, 10 Protoss, 7 Zerg.
Game, set, match.
In the ro8 there were no zergs and 5 protosses which should actually just indicate how well protoss is doing that their attrition rate is so low
And a Terran won the whole thing.
You can't have it both ways. If winning is purely player skill and racial balance shows who is stronger than Terran had more players than Protoss or Zerg in Code S. If winning is based on racial balance then Terran won the whole thing.
Arbitrarily picking a point and saying "oh look, more Protoss at this point" does not prove you right.
...Right, just like arbitrarily picking the Ro32. I'm trying to point out why his is bad: the sample size for GSL is way too small. In any case, Terran doesn't need any buff, we're the strongest race anyways.
Do you like pretending?Are you forgg's long lost brother?
If Zerg or Protoss were substantially stronger than Terran I'd play them instead. Terran units have a very high skill ceiling, and playing Terran has a few notable side effects:
1) ball enlargement 2) increased testosterone production 3) women will swoon 4) muscular growth 5) increased appreciation for bourbon and cigars
so as you can see, there are 2 reasons to stick with terran. 1) strongest race, 2) good side effects.
Great post Made me laugh. Would you mind elaborating on the side effects of playing the other two races?
On May 19 2012 21:03 Adreme wrote: You cant judge pro balance like this. There just arent enough televised games in a short enough span of the best (code S) on the same maps to judge anything. If you are going to judge balance, and I highly recomend you dont, the best method is the "eye test".
My point is facts do not support the widely-accepted allegation of Protoss being OP.
However you want to measure it Terran is at LEAST even. Everything from individual matches to the overall combined pro-level win statistics that regularly get posted up here show that. And yet Terrans abusing Protoss is acceptable because "lol 'toss OP".
Sorry, just pisses me off. Absolutely vile attitude from many people.
Why do you care unless you're GM league, chance is if you're in Diamond and losing to Toss / Terran / Zerg you're pretty bad regardless and should probably fix basic things before whining about overpowered strategys with close to perfect execution and decision making. The fact that you're taking the LR thread seriously is another thing you should stop doing, if you want an example of why not just look for TT1s posts or posts made when Idra loses.
How does that have anything to do with anything?
Being pissed off at the constant abuse of people on here based on their race pick has precisely nothing to do with my own games. I'm a goddamn terrible player, that's hardly relevant.
More to the point I watch these games and browse these forums. Every discussion of PvT comes down to Terrans whining about balance if Protoss ever wins a match. Absolutely disgusting.
A record speaks about the past and not the present. Look at the statistical racial balance in THIS GSL, rather than the curve over the past 2 years. Balance is present, records are past.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just.... silly.
Racial balance this GSL: 15 Terran, 10 Protoss, 7 Zerg.
Game, set, match.
In the ro8 there were no zergs and 5 protosses which should actually just indicate how well protoss is doing that their attrition rate is so low
And a Terran won the whole thing.
You can't have it both ways. If winning is purely player skill and racial balance shows who is stronger than Terran had more players than Protoss or Zerg in Code S. If winning is based on racial balance then Terran won the whole thing.
Arbitrarily picking a point and saying "oh look, more Protoss at this point" does not prove you right.
...Right, just like arbitrarily picking the Ro32. I'm trying to point out why his is bad: the sample size for GSL is way too small. In any case, Terran doesn't need any buff, we're the strongest race anyways.
Do you like pretending?Are you forgg's long lost brother?
If Zerg or Protoss were substantially stronger than Terran I'd play them instead. Terran units have a very high skill ceiling, and playing Terran has a few notable side effects:
1) ball enlargement 2) increased testosterone production 3) women will swoon 4) muscular growth 5) increased appreciation for bourbon and cigars
so as you can see, there are 2 reasons to stick with terran. 1) strongest race, 2) good side effects.
Great post Made me laugh. Would you mind elaborating on the side effects of playing the other two races?
Side effects of playing Zerg: 1) start with 25 energy 2) can spend energy to inject larvae or to spread creep
Side effects of playing Protoss: 1) may build up to 4 additional interceptors for a total of 8 2) interceptors can be launched to attack both air and land units
On May 19 2012 21:01 Shaddar wrote: Squirtle's the real winner of the finals in my eyes, seemed like in the first few games he was a bit off, maybe nervous but then found his groove, such a shame about the last game, would have been amazing to have a 4-3 comeback. I don't normally say things like this but I think the better player lost today.
throwing 3 games away like that and you still say the "better" player lost today?
it gets ridiculous :D
Because I think that if Squirtle plays at his peak, like in games 4,5,6 then he's the better player based on what I saw today. MVP just has more experience at dealing with the nerves and being on the finals stage. Nothing ridiculous about it, that series really could have gone either way.
point is he didnt play at his peak, at least not for the first 3 games. he made mistakes which cost him 3 games, and a small one that cost him the 4th, imo he played well in the 3 other games so it was a nice final but saying the best player lost is ridiculous its like saying the best driver in f1 grand prix lost the race after he crashed into a wall
I know, it was frustrating to watch. I don't mean he played better in that series, I just think he's the better player in the matchup is he plays his best and it's a shame he didn't in all of the games, I really think he had the potential to win that series.
On May 19 2012 21:03 Adreme wrote: You cant judge pro balance like this. There just arent enough televised games in a short enough span of the best (code S) on the same maps to judge anything. If you are going to judge balance, and I highly recomend you dont, the best method is the "eye test".
My point is facts do not support the widely-accepted allegation of Protoss being OP.
However you want to measure it Terran is at LEAST even. Everything from individual matches to the overall combined pro-level win statistics that regularly get posted up here show that. And yet Terrans abusing Protoss is acceptable because "lol 'toss OP".
Sorry, just pisses me off. Absolutely vile attitude from many people.
The cited facts are often misconstrued. misinterpretted or missused by people who have a point to make and want the data to support there point. People too often view debate as a competition to be won or lost when what debate is suppose to be is the exchange of ideas that leads both sides to a greater understanding then they had coming into it.
The statistics that are available, in my view support nothing because there isnt enough. The only thing I can confidently say is that Protoss really like to pick Daybreak and Terran really like to pick Antiga but other than that there just isnt enough data to say anything overarching in my view.
That! ^ It was really amazing all the micro involved and such decision making
Really? MVP cheesed and won a game with subpar micro. Squirtle did no better. You honestly can't say it was one of the better games you've seen.
sure if it was a ladder game it would just be an okay game, but as a game 7 of an insane GSL finals comeback after 6 macro games? HOLY DOUBLE BACK FLIP BATMAN
So you're saying because MVP decided to cheese in the last game of a Bo7, that made the game good?
It was good because you didn't know who was going to win for a good portion of the game, it only became obvious in the last few seconds.
I was entertained.
So you're saying it was good because the situation made it entertaining for a casual observer, not because it was an actual legitimate display of skill... Honestly, I'm not hating on MVP for what he did. He won, and props to him for that. I'm just saying it wasn't a legitimately good game with respect to a showcase of skill and decision making.
Choosing a high-risk strategy and committing to it under the most high-pressure situation possible in the GSL is an example of both.
It wasn't won based on a long-term game plan with tip-top mechanics. Props to you for noticing that. I'm just saying that your opinion of this game not being "legitimately good" makes me think you're one of those people that complains about anything to sound insightful.
Everyone will remember this game. It is going to be enshrined as the finale to an amazing GSL finals.
I'm just saying I tuned in for the last game hoping for a game that showcased good mechanics and decision making and I was dissapointed. I'm just saying that the execution wasn't that good on either end. Thus, despite the fact that it was the last game in the Bo7 of the GSL finals, the game wasn't, in my opinion, good. I don't care whether it was "memorable" or "surprising" or "omg MVP's got mad balls look at how much he's blowing my mind" or not. I'm just commenting on how the game itself played out. You may or may not share the same opinion, but it's entirely up to you.
So you tuned in for one game of a seven game final and then want to spread your words of wisdom on it? Context is EVERYTHING in a multi-game series. If you haven't seen all the games then do not comment on the last game being "bad". The game was amazing because it was the final game in an amazing seven game GSL final, do not comment unless you have seen all the games.
Dude chill out. All I'm saying is the game itself wasn't a high quality game. Are you really going to argue with me about that? I don't care if the previous six games were macro games and you think it was some sort of brilliant move that MVP changed it up in game seven. I'm all for that. Go MVP, you decided to do a 2rax that was scouted and probably should have been defended, and you won. And you deserved the win. I don't see what's wrong about this. But that has nothing to do with my saying that the game itself wasn't that great. Also, your argument of "the game was amazing because it was the final game in an amazing seven game GSL final" is pretty silly...
On May 19 2012 21:03 Adreme wrote: You cant judge pro balance like this. There just arent enough televised games in a short enough span of the best (code S) on the same maps to judge anything. If you are going to judge balance, and I highly recomend you dont, the best method is the "eye test".
My point is facts do not support the widely-accepted allegation of Protoss being OP.
However you want to measure it Terran is at LEAST even. Everything from individual matches to the overall combined pro-level win statistics that regularly get posted up here show that. And yet Terrans abusing Protoss is acceptable because "lol 'toss OP".
Sorry, just pisses me off. Absolutely vile attitude from many people.
Why do you care unless you're GM league, chance is if you're in Diamond and losing to Toss / Terran / Zerg you're pretty bad regardless and should probably fix basic things before whining about overpowered strategys with close to perfect execution and decision making. The fact that you're taking the LR thread seriously is another thing you should stop doing, if you want an example of why not just look for TT1s posts or posts made when Idra loses.
How does that have anything to do with anything?
Being pissed off at the constant abuse of people on here based on their race pick has precisely nothing to do with my own games. I'm a goddamn terrible player, that's hardly relevant.
More to the point I watch these games and browse these forums. Every discussion of PvT comes down to Terrans whining about balance if Protoss ever wins a match. Absolutely disgusting.
Then refer to point 2, why are you reading the LR thread / obvious places that are going to be full of QQ?
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i47.tinypic.com/2im9g8y.jpg)
