|
On May 19 2012 21:29 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:25 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 21:23 Adreme wrote:On May 19 2012 21:20 torm3ntin wrote:On May 19 2012 21:16 Shadow_Dog wrote:
BCs, new late game TvP standard now? I thought they were pretty effective. also wondering the same lol I might be wrong but I just cant see them staying. Squirtle seemed like that game he was just improving things to do to deal with what MVP was doing. For example that recall to snipe the island was clearly not planned out or he would have had a better way to get back. However the archon toilot, despite not being terribly well executed (2 more archons in there and those BCs dont even need to get stormed) it still decimated that style hard and in a way that I think might lend itself to dominating it in the future. I actually wonder about the archon toilet. In PvZ it's uniquely good because Z has no feedback/EMP. Against Terran I wonder how useful it can be-- it seems much more hit and miss, so to speak. Tbh it's pretty much a massive gamble because you're relying on avoiding an AoE energy drain coming from a cloaked unit. Self-evidently can be effective, but it's pretty much as volatile as the HT/Ghost relationship without the advantage of being able to have multiple units you can split (only one Mothership).
Yes its still a gamble but the archons werent even the most important part of it. What I believe helped him most was that he got half of the BCs out of the fight so that he could kill other half. Unless you go MVP style full turtle (which is kinda awesome on rare occaions he brings it out) you arent going to have an insane ghost count compared to your opponents HT count which nullify yamato fairly well and storm which is hard for BCs to move out of and even the archon splash which I think is more effective to just take than to try and split but I dont have much to go on for that.
|
I'm heartbroken after that last game. MVP definitely deserves his win, but I feel so bad for Squirtle that it had to end like that. At least he showed some amazing games after the first 3.
|
On May 19 2012 20:31 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:28 Miragee wrote:On May 19 2012 20:20 HaXXspetten wrote:On May 19 2012 20:19 opterown wrote:Poll: Rate Mvp vs. Squirtle overall??★★★★★ (431) 84% ★★★★ (47) 9% ★ (16) 3% ★★★ (13) 3% ★★ (6) 1% 513 total votes Your vote: Rate Mvp vs. Squirtle overall?? (Vote): ★★★★★
(Vote): ★★★★
(Vote): ★★★
(Vote): ★★
(Vote): ★
I would rate the games as following: g1 - 1 g2 - 3 g3 - 2 g4 - 3 g5- 99999999999999999 g6 - 5 g7 - 4 I voted: g1: / g2: / g3: / g4: 2 g5: 1 g6: 2 g7: 4 ^^ Not a fan of game six? Why's that? I can understand not liking game 5 as it was long, but game six was well paced and SO intense.
No, not a fan of game 6. 1. Too many rally and multitasking fails for my taste. 2. I knew the game was won by Squirtle (for 99,9%) when Mvp sieged up the Nat while Squirtle had a hidden forward pylon and an unscouted third base.
|
After reading this thread, I think people should realize, that being more skilled player doesnt equal to being better player in this game. Yes, Squirtle is more skilled. Yes, MVP is better player (which btw pisses me off, I dont like that guy at all - he is just too good for me to like, like Federer few years back -.-).
|
On May 19 2012 21:30 TheKefka wrote:Ok real talk for a moment now about that game 5. + Show Spoiler +That game was absolutely terrible.I can understand that people are hyped about when something unique happens but everything that led up to that point was just bad.
Once squirtle decided that it was a good idea to recall 50 supply of his army to an islandd(which,when it happened,I facepalmed so hard that I nearly tore half of my face off) and get his mothership sniped(which was even worse),he should have lost the game right there.
Fortunately for him,for some reason that's unknown to me,MVP decided it would be a good idea to sit back and wait till Squirtle recovers.All he had to do as soon as that mothership went down is 1A move the BCs and he would have rolled squirtle probably and even if he would have lost due to a influx of units since Squirtle had mad bank,that moment was absolutely the best time to win at that time,since squirtle had dead supply trapped.
He SAW the mothership explode,it exploaded right over his expo.To not attack right there and than was just mind boggling.
+ Show Spoiler +I agree with your assessment - MVP should've done what you suggested (1a his whole army). His army would've steamrolled all over the gateways and put Squirtle under huge pressure. I don't understand why he just sat back.
In game 6, MVP had the game won as well, but he made mistakes in that contain. He should've just committed earlier (I reckon he would've won), or just sit back and build siege tanks behind the contain. Instead, he started sacrificing small groups of units in an attempt to snipe the robo. Or he could expand faster and just out-resource Squirtle.
BUT..... I DON'T CARE SINCE MVP WON IN THE END!!!!! 
HE BROUGHT SUNSHINE TO MY RAIN!!!
LIGHT TO MY DESPAIR!!!
I WAS SO DEVASTATED ABOUT PROTOSS THIS SEASON AND MVP DID IT!!!
|
On May 19 2012 21:36 Ammanas wrote:
After reading this thread, I think people should realize, that being more skilled player doesnt equal to being better player in this game. Yes, Squirtle is more skilled. Yes, MVP is better player (which btw pisses me off, I dont like that guy at all - he is just too good for me to like, like Federer few years back -.-).
In what universe is Squirtle more skilled than MVP? There's nothing to suggest that this is the case.
|
Well.... best finals of all time its a damn shame Squirtle lost though.
|
On May 19 2012 21:32 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:28 iSunrise wrote:On May 19 2012 21:20 torm3ntin wrote:On May 19 2012 21:16 Shadow_Dog wrote:
BCs, new late game TvP standard now? I thought they were pretty effective. also wondering the same lol MVP could have spread his BCs into 3-4 groups. Doesn´t say anything about BCs at all, but more about MVP´s decisions and the toilet+archon strat that basically beats almost everything in seconds. yeah one EMP on the mothership would have worked wonders as well ^.^
Indeed. It is such a rare occurance that players actually micro their BCs. They got a speed buffs ages ago and still they clump them up. IMHO, even pro players like MVP should learn from this.
Squirtle might still have won the game (he had like 9000 minerals), but I just cannot believe how poorly MVP executed that BC attack. It was almost as bad as that island attack from Squirtle where he stranded most of his units.
Game 5 was total chaos, but it climaxed like there was no tomorrow. What a great and also very weird game that was.
Nice GSL finals!
|
On May 19 2012 21:33 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:29 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 21:25 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 21:23 Adreme wrote:On May 19 2012 21:20 torm3ntin wrote:On May 19 2012 21:16 Shadow_Dog wrote:
BCs, new late game TvP standard now? I thought they were pretty effective. also wondering the same lol I might be wrong but I just cant see them staying. Squirtle seemed like that game he was just improving things to do to deal with what MVP was doing. For example that recall to snipe the island was clearly not planned out or he would have had a better way to get back. However the archon toilot, despite not being terribly well executed (2 more archons in there and those BCs dont even need to get stormed) it still decimated that style hard and in a way that I think might lend itself to dominating it in the future. I actually wonder about the archon toilet. In PvZ it's uniquely good because Z has no feedback/EMP. Against Terran I wonder how useful it can be-- it seems much more hit and miss, so to speak. Tbh it's pretty much a massive gamble because you're relying on avoiding an AoE energy drain coming from a cloaked unit. Self-evidently can be effective, but it's pretty much as volatile as the HT/Ghost relationship without the advantage of being able to have multiple units you can split (only one Mothership). Yes its still a gamble but the archons werent even the most important part of it. What I believe helped him most was that he got half of the BCs out of the fight so that he could kill other half. Unless you go MVP style full turtle (which is kinda awesome on rare occaions he brings it out) you arent going to have an insane ghost count compared to your opponents HT count which nullify yamato fairly well and storm which is hard for BCs to move out of and even the archon splash which I think is more effective to just take than to try and split but I dont have much to go on for that.
It was a hell of a smart positioning on where he dropped the Vortex, agreed.
I think MVP's problem at that point was he didn't know what to do about the vortex. When half your BC army gets vortexed like that do you want to throw everything in it and hope you got enough or try to pull back until the rest of your army is released? I mean...how many times does terran even have to make that kind of decision? It's not like BC play is exactly massively explored.
I think MVP might have even been better off keeping those Vikings honestly. Might have sniped the mothership.
|
On May 19 2012 21:38 iSunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:32 Naphal wrote:On May 19 2012 21:28 iSunrise wrote:On May 19 2012 21:20 torm3ntin wrote:On May 19 2012 21:16 Shadow_Dog wrote:
BCs, new late game TvP standard now? I thought they were pretty effective. also wondering the same lol MVP could have spread his BCs into 3-4 groups. Doesn´t say anything about BCs at all, but more about MVP´s decisions and the toilet+archon strat that basically beats almost everything in seconds. yeah one EMP on the mothership would have worked wonders as well ^.^ Indeed. It is such a rare occurance that players actually micro their BCs. They got a speed buffs ages ago and still they clump them up. IMHO, even pro players like MVP should learn from this. Squirtle might still have won the game (he had like 9000 minerals), but I just cannot believe how poorly MVP executed that BC attack. It was almost as bad as that island attack from Squirtle where he stranded most of his units. Game 5 was total chaos, but it climaxed like there was no tomorrow. What a great and also very weird game that was. Nice GSL finals!
I think he was just waiting for the Nukes and wanted to end the game with a 'bang' literally. he scanned the voids and was probably thinking meh I can deal with it. He just waited too long.
|
Watched this at a barcraft, game 5 was INSANE. Best game on SCII I've ever seen, as good as some of the better BW games I've seen. Amazing comeback from squirtle, I wish he coulda pulled off that last game.
|
On May 19 2012 21:38 iSunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:32 Naphal wrote:On May 19 2012 21:28 iSunrise wrote:On May 19 2012 21:20 torm3ntin wrote:On May 19 2012 21:16 Shadow_Dog wrote:
BCs, new late game TvP standard now? I thought they were pretty effective. also wondering the same lol MVP could have spread his BCs into 3-4 groups. Doesn´t say anything about BCs at all, but more about MVP´s decisions and the toilet+archon strat that basically beats almost everything in seconds. yeah one EMP on the mothership would have worked wonders as well ^.^ Indeed. It is such a rare occurance that players actually micro their BCs. They got a speed buffs ages ago and still they clump them up. IMHO, even pro players like MVP should learn from this.Squirtle might still have won the game (he had like 9000 minerals), but I just cannot believe how poorly MVP executed that BC attack. It was almost as bad as that island attack from Squirtle where he stranded most of his units. Game 5 was total chaos, but it climaxed like there was no tomorrow. What a great and also very weird game that was. Nice GSL finals!
Considering how small the range of BC's is splitting them up isn't that good since its very easy to snipe them off if you do that.
Also the speedbuff is only really in effect once the BC's accelerate after moving for a good amount of time.
|
United Kingdom16710 Posts
Yes MVP! Almost gave me a heart attack there losing 3 in a row. Still, I knew you would pull through. 4 time champion baby!
|
On May 19 2012 21:42 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:38 iSunrise wrote:On May 19 2012 21:32 Naphal wrote:On May 19 2012 21:28 iSunrise wrote:On May 19 2012 21:20 torm3ntin wrote:On May 19 2012 21:16 Shadow_Dog wrote:
BCs, new late game TvP standard now? I thought they were pretty effective. also wondering the same lol MVP could have spread his BCs into 3-4 groups. Doesn´t say anything about BCs at all, but more about MVP´s decisions and the toilet+archon strat that basically beats almost everything in seconds. yeah one EMP on the mothership would have worked wonders as well ^.^ Indeed. It is such a rare occurance that players actually micro their BCs. They got a speed buffs ages ago and still they clump them up. IMHO, even pro players like MVP should learn from this.Squirtle might still have won the game (he had like 9000 minerals), but I just cannot believe how poorly MVP executed that BC attack. It was almost as bad as that island attack from Squirtle where he stranded most of his units. Game 5 was total chaos, but it climaxed like there was no tomorrow. What a great and also very weird game that was. Nice GSL finals! Considering how small the range of BC's is splitting them up isn't that good since its very easy to snipe them off if you do that. Also the speedbuff is only really in effect once the BC's accelerate after moving for a good amount of time.
5-6 BCs in one group shouldn´t be that easy to snipe of. He also didn´t need to spread them that far away, either.
|
Really...? Devastated...? About what, that terrans haven't roflstomped protoss in this season, like they have for a whole 2011?
|
On May 19 2012 21:37 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:36 Ammanas wrote:
After reading this thread, I think people should realize, that being more skilled player doesnt equal to being better player in this game. Yes, Squirtle is more skilled. Yes, MVP is better player (which btw pisses me off, I dont like that guy at all - he is just too good for me to like, like Federer few years back -.-). In what universe is Squirtle more skilled than MVP? There's nothing to suggest that this is the case.
In the one where MVP cant properly (or at all) train SC2 because of his wrists?
|
On May 19 2012 21:39 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:33 Adreme wrote:On May 19 2012 21:29 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 21:25 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 21:23 Adreme wrote:On May 19 2012 21:20 torm3ntin wrote:On May 19 2012 21:16 Shadow_Dog wrote:
BCs, new late game TvP standard now? I thought they were pretty effective. also wondering the same lol I might be wrong but I just cant see them staying. Squirtle seemed like that game he was just improving things to do to deal with what MVP was doing. For example that recall to snipe the island was clearly not planned out or he would have had a better way to get back. However the archon toilot, despite not being terribly well executed (2 more archons in there and those BCs dont even need to get stormed) it still decimated that style hard and in a way that I think might lend itself to dominating it in the future. I actually wonder about the archon toilet. In PvZ it's uniquely good because Z has no feedback/EMP. Against Terran I wonder how useful it can be-- it seems much more hit and miss, so to speak. Tbh it's pretty much a massive gamble because you're relying on avoiding an AoE energy drain coming from a cloaked unit. Self-evidently can be effective, but it's pretty much as volatile as the HT/Ghost relationship without the advantage of being able to have multiple units you can split (only one Mothership). Yes its still a gamble but the archons werent even the most important part of it. What I believe helped him most was that he got half of the BCs out of the fight so that he could kill other half. Unless you go MVP style full turtle (which is kinda awesome on rare occaions he brings it out) you arent going to have an insane ghost count compared to your opponents HT count which nullify yamato fairly well and storm which is hard for BCs to move out of and even the archon splash which I think is more effective to just take than to try and split but I dont have much to go on for that. It was a hell of a smart positioning on where he dropped the Vortex, agreed. I think MVP's problem at that point was he didn't know what to do about the vortex. When half your BC army gets vortexed like that do you want to throw everything in it and hope you got enough or try to pull back until the rest of your army is released? I mean...how many times does terran even have to make that kind of decision? It's not like BC play is exactly massively explored. I think MVP might have even been better off keeping those Vikings honestly. Might have sniped the mothership.
If this becomes the "lategame" TvP go-to situation i think it could be quite intresting to see the potential ways it can be fleshed out for terran.
After a few tests,
1: To emp a mothership the hitbox is quite large so unlike mutalisks you dont have to hit right on the small dot you can actually just hit near-ish the edge of the mothership. In that exact situation an emp on the mothership was probabaly a guarenteed win for MVP
2: In that engagement a ton of feedbacks went off, is there an arguement for terran emp'ing their own battlecruisers before the engagement to nullify the feedbacks.
3: Zerg have faced this situation many times. However Corruptors are 6 range vikings are 9 range. How would that range difference affect the engagement with a few vikings.
4: If going for that similar situation as a terran, will it become a "requirement" to be liberal with scans just to get information on the positioning of the mothership for possible snipe/emp.
That seemed like an engagement where both players wernt really sure the specifics of what would happen or what response was needed, whether or not it becomes a staple of the matchup i do quite hope that situation gets fleshed out over the next few weeks..
|
Mvp, the first Starcraft II Bonjwa.
|
On May 19 2012 21:46 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:37 forsooth wrote:On May 19 2012 21:36 Ammanas wrote:
After reading this thread, I think people should realize, that being more skilled player doesnt equal to being better player in this game. Yes, Squirtle is more skilled. Yes, MVP is better player (which btw pisses me off, I dont like that guy at all - he is just too good for me to like, like Federer few years back -.-). In what universe is Squirtle more skilled than MVP? There's nothing to suggest that this is the case. In the one where MVP cant properly (or at all) train SC2 because of his wrists?
I like how biased you are.
|
On May 19 2012 20:23 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:22 An2quamaraN wrote:On May 19 2012 20:18 liberate71 wrote:On May 19 2012 20:18 Affluenza wrote:
That was a disappointing final match...
Squirtle deserved to win... If he deserved to win, he would of won. lol, no? Which other race has range units that cost only minerals and can loose all the workers and still has income? Mvp took advantage of the fact that cheesing as terran is baby easy and no brainer. what other race has archon toilet?
so you really want to compare a skill and luck required to do a SUCCESSFUL archon toilet (against terran??) to dropping mules and making marines? It's obvious you got really mad in game 5 when a-move with mass BCs didn't work for MVP...but thankfully most people realized how sick play by Squirtle that was.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
