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On May 19 2012 21:53 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:43 iSunrise wrote:On May 19 2012 21:42 s3rp wrote:On May 19 2012 21:38 iSunrise wrote:On May 19 2012 21:32 Naphal wrote:On May 19 2012 21:28 iSunrise wrote:On May 19 2012 21:20 torm3ntin wrote:On May 19 2012 21:16 Shadow_Dog wrote:
BCs, new late game TvP standard now? I thought they were pretty effective. also wondering the same lol MVP could have spread his BCs into 3-4 groups. Doesn´t say anything about BCs at all, but more about MVP´s decisions and the toilet+archon strat that basically beats almost everything in seconds. yeah one EMP on the mothership would have worked wonders as well ^.^ Indeed. It is such a rare occurance that players actually micro their BCs. They got a speed buffs ages ago and still they clump them up. IMHO, even pro players like MVP should learn from this.Squirtle might still have won the game (he had like 9000 minerals), but I just cannot believe how poorly MVP executed that BC attack. It was almost as bad as that island attack from Squirtle where he stranded most of his units. Game 5 was total chaos, but it climaxed like there was no tomorrow. What a great and also very weird game that was. Nice GSL finals! Considering how small the range of BC's is splitting them up isn't that good since its very easy to snipe them off if you do that. Also the speedbuff is only really in effect once the BC's accelerate after moving for a good amount of time. 5-6 BCs in one group shouldn´t be that easy to snipe of. He also didn´t need to spread them that far away, either. My 2 problems with that are that you will reasonably only have enough to for 2 of those groups and they are still vulnerable to archon aoe stacked up and a good vortex.
You also have to wonder if MVP would have won if he successfully EMP'd the mothership. I mean, he probably would have won the engagement but not without taking some serious damage. Protoss has the ability to quickly reinforce with units that do just fine against BC's, while BC's are very difficult to replace. I feel that, as Protoss, you cannot beat BC's straight up (unless Vortex ^^) but you can wear them down.
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Btw to everyone saying that PvT imbalanced and heavily favored Protoss, here're the PvT stats of whole GSL : 172 (P) - (T) 230.
That being said, no matter if you're P or Z in a GSL finals, almost everytime there's gonna be a T to stop you, sometimes with cheese.
I really wonder when a Protoss will win the GSL, it's been 1 year, srsly...we'll see at the next GSL if the 3 SF protoss are gonna perform as good as they did in this one.
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On May 19 2012 22:21 Sakray wrote:
Btw to everyone saying that PvT imbalanced and heavily favored Protoss, here're the PvT stats of whole GSL : 172 (P) - (T) 230.
That being said, no matter if you're P or Z in a GSL finals, almost everytime there's gonna be a T to stop you, sometimes with cheese.
I really wonder when a Protoss will win the GSL, it's been 1 year, srsly...we'll see at the next GSL if the 3 SF protoss are gonna perform as good as they did in this one.
There's difference forms of balance my man.
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On May 19 2012 22:21 Sakray wrote:
Btw to everyone saying that PvT imbalanced and heavily favored Protoss, here're the PvT stats of whole GSL : 172 (P) - (T) 230.
That being said, no matter if you're P or Z in a GSL finals, almost everytime there's gonna be a T to stop you, sometimes with cheese.
I really wonder when a Protoss will win the GSL, it's been 1 year, srsly...we'll see at the next GSL if the 3 SF protoss are gonna perform as good as they did in this one.
That was long long ago.
Anyway, I think the metagame is still evolving. Starcraft needs to grow more until we can make definite judgements.
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On May 19 2012 21:59 Belisarius wrote:
lol man. Saw this at a barcraft, came on to find the archon toilet LR.
Totally worth the effort. Page 176 on. Just do it.
haha, yes this is worth the effort, great reactions.
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Coultdnt have been more disappointed with the finals. I want to see someone new win
Someone that know one expected.
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On May 19 2012 22:33 SHOOG wrote:
Coultdnt have been more disappointed with the finals. I want to see someone new win
Someone that know one expected.
then you better watch something more luckbased.
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I wonder if this mass cattlebruiser strat will make it more reliable to go mech vs protoss. Good sim city with tanks and pf's is perhaps the safest way to get that gas count up.
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Best news to wake up to EVER!! MVP you are unreal. In these dire (can we still call them that?  ) times for Terran, in combination with his wrists... Simply too awesome.
Month just got made, easily.
Watching the VOD's in 3.. 2.. 1..
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On May 19 2012 22:01 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 22:00 Jojo131 wrote:On May 19 2012 21:48 Archybaldie wrote:On May 19 2012 21:39 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 21:33 Adreme wrote:On May 19 2012 21:29 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 21:25 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 21:23 Adreme wrote:On May 19 2012 21:20 torm3ntin wrote:On May 19 2012 21:16 Shadow_Dog wrote:
BCs, new late game TvP standard now? I thought they were pretty effective. also wondering the same lol I might be wrong but I just cant see them staying. Squirtle seemed like that game he was just improving things to do to deal with what MVP was doing. For example that recall to snipe the island was clearly not planned out or he would have had a better way to get back. However the archon toilot, despite not being terribly well executed (2 more archons in there and those BCs dont even need to get stormed) it still decimated that style hard and in a way that I think might lend itself to dominating it in the future. I actually wonder about the archon toilet. In PvZ it's uniquely good because Z has no feedback/EMP. Against Terran I wonder how useful it can be-- it seems much more hit and miss, so to speak. Tbh it's pretty much a massive gamble because you're relying on avoiding an AoE energy drain coming from a cloaked unit. Self-evidently can be effective, but it's pretty much as volatile as the HT/Ghost relationship without the advantage of being able to have multiple units you can split (only one Mothership). Yes its still a gamble but the archons werent even the most important part of it. What I believe helped him most was that he got half of the BCs out of the fight so that he could kill other half. Unless you go MVP style full turtle (which is kinda awesome on rare occaions he brings it out) you arent going to have an insane ghost count compared to your opponents HT count which nullify yamato fairly well and storm which is hard for BCs to move out of and even the archon splash which I think is more effective to just take than to try and split but I dont have much to go on for that. It was a hell of a smart positioning on where he dropped the Vortex, agreed. I think MVP's problem at that point was he didn't know what to do about the vortex. When half your BC army gets vortexed like that do you want to throw everything in it and hope you got enough or try to pull back until the rest of your army is released? I mean...how many times does terran even have to make that kind of decision? It's not like BC play is exactly massively explored. I think MVP might have even been better off keeping those Vikings honestly. Might have sniped the mothership. If this becomes the "lategame" TvP go-to situation i think it could be quite intresting to see the potential ways it can be fleshed out for terran. After a few tests, 2: In that engagement a ton of feedbacks went off, is there an arguement for terran emp'ing their own battlecruisers before the engagement to nullify the feedbacks.. Does this actually work? I'm a bit blown away that I never thought of this. o.0 Of course it works, it's why I'm surprised everyone stopped using the thorzain Thor build, just EMP your Thors and the templar feedbacks get worse
What made the Thorzain build strong was the use of strike cannons to nullify Immortals, you need energy for that now.
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On May 19 2012 22:21 Sakray wrote:
Btw to everyone saying that PvT imbalanced and heavily favored Protoss, here're the PvT stats of whole GSL : 172 (P) - (T) 230.
That being said, no matter if you're P or Z in a GSL finals, almost everytime there's gonna be a T to stop you, sometimes with cheese.
I really wonder when a Protoss will win the GSL, it's been 1 year, srsly...we'll see at the next GSL if the 3 SF protoss are gonna perform as good as they did in this one.
Your post is laughable
Top 8 of this GSL, 5 protoss, 3 zerg, 1 terran. You say "almost everytime there's gonna be a T to stop you" No, there's going to be MvP to stop you.
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Denmark10305 Posts
Man that final was freaking amazing. game 5 was just mindblowing, that comeback by Squirtle, the epic cheese micro war in the last game. So perfect
Really glad i showed my GF Starcraft 2 for the first time and this was the series she saw. Afterwards she thought it was super exciting to watch, and really bummed that Squirtle didn't win
GG, both are winners in my book <3
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I wish Squirtle could have won, but MVP played very smartly.
And the greatest part is that MVP got to show all the terrans in the world how to play lategame TvP.
Tons of cloaked ghosts with nukes, and Battlecruisers. Lots of Battlecruisers. He even said in his interview, no army can beat those Battlecruisers, as long as you don't make a huge control blunder like he admitted to. Ghosts with EMP plus yamato lets Terran snipe everything scary in seconds. Because of this, Protoss has no hard counter to groups of battlecruisers. Voidrays die to one yamato, and everything toss has dies to one yamato if it has lost its shields to EMP. Even a carrier. I'm excited to see many more sky terran transitions in future pro play.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 19 2012 22:54 PolishxThunder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 22:21 Sakray wrote:
Btw to everyone saying that PvT imbalanced and heavily favored Protoss, here're the PvT stats of whole GSL : 172 (P) - (T) 230.
That being said, no matter if you're P or Z in a GSL finals, almost everytime there's gonna be a T to stop you, sometimes with cheese.
I really wonder when a Protoss will win the GSL, it's been 1 year, srsly...we'll see at the next GSL if the 3 SF protoss are gonna perform as good as they did in this one. Your post is laughable Top 8 of this GSL, 5 protoss, 3 zerg, 1 terran. You say "almost everytime there's gonna be a T to stop you" No, there's going to be MvP to stop you.
Wait, what? It was 5 toss 3 terran?
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On May 19 2012 22:20 Elp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:53 Adreme wrote:On May 19 2012 21:43 iSunrise wrote:On May 19 2012 21:42 s3rp wrote:On May 19 2012 21:38 iSunrise wrote:On May 19 2012 21:32 Naphal wrote:On May 19 2012 21:28 iSunrise wrote:On May 19 2012 21:20 torm3ntin wrote:On May 19 2012 21:16 Shadow_Dog wrote:
BCs, new late game TvP standard now? I thought they were pretty effective. also wondering the same lol MVP could have spread his BCs into 3-4 groups. Doesn´t say anything about BCs at all, but more about MVP´s decisions and the toilet+archon strat that basically beats almost everything in seconds. yeah one EMP on the mothership would have worked wonders as well ^.^ Indeed. It is such a rare occurance that players actually micro their BCs. They got a speed buffs ages ago and still they clump them up. IMHO, even pro players like MVP should learn from this.Squirtle might still have won the game (he had like 9000 minerals), but I just cannot believe how poorly MVP executed that BC attack. It was almost as bad as that island attack from Squirtle where he stranded most of his units. Game 5 was total chaos, but it climaxed like there was no tomorrow. What a great and also very weird game that was. Nice GSL finals! Considering how small the range of BC's is splitting them up isn't that good since its very easy to snipe them off if you do that. Also the speedbuff is only really in effect once the BC's accelerate after moving for a good amount of time. 5-6 BCs in one group shouldn´t be that easy to snipe of. He also didn´t need to spread them that far away, either. My 2 problems with that are that you will reasonably only have enough to for 2 of those groups and they are still vulnerable to archon aoe stacked up and a good vortex. You also have to wonder if MVP would have won if he successfully EMP'd the mothership. I mean, he probably would have won the engagement but not without taking some serious damage. Protoss has the ability to quickly reinforce with units that do just fine against BC's, while BC's are very difficult to replace. I feel that, as Protoss, you cannot beat BC's straight up (unless Vortex ^^) but you can wear them down.
I wonder how much MVP and Squirtle actually practiced the mothership/BC scenario. I mean it's really hard to make balance discussion on Mothership/BC based on this single game because it's just a very small sample.
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On May 19 2012 22:57 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 22:54 PolishxThunder wrote:On May 19 2012 22:21 Sakray wrote:
Btw to everyone saying that PvT imbalanced and heavily favored Protoss, here're the PvT stats of whole GSL : 172 (P) - (T) 230.
That being said, no matter if you're P or Z in a GSL finals, almost everytime there's gonna be a T to stop you, sometimes with cheese.
I really wonder when a Protoss will win the GSL, it's been 1 year, srsly...we'll see at the next GSL if the 3 SF protoss are gonna perform as good as they did in this one. Your post is laughable Top 8 of this GSL, 5 protoss, 3 zerg, 1 terran. You say "almost everytime there's gonna be a T to stop you" No, there's going to be MvP to stop you. Wait, what? It was 5 toss 3 terran?
Think he means GSL rankings thus far since the new year reset.
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What I realized after today´s GSL finals:
A player can only win (the GSL) if someone beats MVP beforehand or if they either have more experience than MVP (is that even possible?) or are in better mental shape than MVP, when playing against him. BO3 is doable, but if a set goes BO5 or BO7, it´s almost impossible to beat him.
If MVP is out of a tournament/league, your chances of winning increase dramatically. MarineKing had to learn that the hard way. He would´ve won several GSLs otherwise if it weren´t for MVP.
What amazed me is that Squirtle almost beat him, and while I thought that this is possible before the finals, I never would have thought it after I had actually seen the games.
DRG is almost in the same boat, he has a lot of experience and that counters everything.
What this means is that once MVP or DRG are out, suddenly everyone can win the GSL.
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which game has this shitload of bc's and ghosts ?
Needs to tune into that vod quick
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On May 19 2012 23:05 Vertical wrote:
which game has this shitload of bc's and ghosts ?
Needs to tune into that vod quick
Game 5
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EPT
