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On May 19 2012 20:57 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:56 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 20:47 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 20:42 DYEAlabaster wrote:
A record speaks about the past and not the present. Look at the statistical racial balance in THIS GSL, rather than the curve over the past 2 years. Balance is present, records are past.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just.... silly. Racial balance this GSL: 15 Terran, 10 Protoss, 7 Zerg. Game, set, match. In the ro8 there were no zergs and 5 protosses which should actually just indicate how well protoss is doing that their attrition rate is so low And a Terran won the whole thing. You can't have it both ways. If winning is purely player skill and racial balance shows who is stronger than Terran had more players than Protoss or Zerg in Code S. If winning is based on racial balance then Terran won the whole thing. Arbitrarily picking a point and saying "oh look, more Protoss at this point" does not prove you right. ...Right, just like arbitrarily picking the Ro32. I'm trying to point out why his is bad: the sample size for GSL is way too small. In any case, Terran doesn't need any buff, we're the strongest race anyways.
Do you like pretending?Are you forgg's long lost brother?
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i noticed earlier a mod was saying the final game wasn't "legitimately good" skill-wise.
you're probably one of those people who can't appreciate the good points and tries to only identify the faults within a person.
MVP showed tremendous nerve when pulling his scvs for the SECOND time when he could have just as well gone for the easy way out by "resetting" the game as Artosis said, after he saw his push fail. Squirtle did amazingly well for holding the push as he did but made one mistake small yet big enough for MVP to decide to send his second round of scvs.
whether or not you meant it, comments like your's are pretty condescending towards MVP because they emit a hint of intent to delegitimize his accomplishments, something that was achieved through a tremendous amount of effort.
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On May 19 2012 21:03 Zer atai wrote:
I would not be surprised if the next patch, whenever that will be, will buff protoss
I would be surprised.
Toss did extremely well this season, the fact that they didn't win does not tell anything - players win tournaments, not races.
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
TL Live Report @TeamLiquidLIVE
Q: How did you feel about losing all your BC's in game 5?
TL Live Report @TeamLiquidLIVE
Mvp: I thought "Hmm, this could be hard"
lmfao.
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On May 19 2012 21:05 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:03 Zer atai wrote:
I would not be surprised if the next patch, whenever that will be, will buff protoss I would be surprised. Toss did extremely well this season, the fact that they didn't win does not tell anything - players win tournaments, not races.
Well said.
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On May 19 2012 21:06 Asha` wrote:
TL Live Report @TeamLiquidLIVE
Q: How did you feel about losing all your BC's in game 5?
TL Live Report @TeamLiquidLIVE
Mvp: I thought "Hmm, this could be hard"
lmfao.
OOOH smack talk!
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On May 19 2012 21:03 Fluffboll wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:52 Saracen wrote:On May 19 2012 20:45 how2TL wrote:On May 19 2012 20:35 Saracen wrote:On May 19 2012 20:32 Dodgin wrote:On May 19 2012 20:30 Saracen wrote:On May 19 2012 20:27 L3g3nd_ wrote:On May 19 2012 20:26 Saracen wrote:On May 19 2012 20:22 Ace1123 wrote:On May 19 2012 20:21 windsupernova wrote:
[quote]
This That! ^ It was really amazing all the micro involved and such decision making Really? MVP cheesed and won a game with subpar micro. Squirtle did no better. You honestly can't say it was one of the better games you've seen. sure if it was a ladder game it would just be an okay game, but as a game 7 of an insane GSL finals comeback after 6 macro games? HOLY DOUBLE BACK FLIP BATMAN So you're saying because MVP decided to cheese in the last game of a Bo7, that made the game good? It was good because you didn't know who was going to win for a good portion of the game, it only became obvious in the last few seconds. I was entertained. So you're saying it was good because the situation made it entertaining for a casual observer, not because it was an actual legitimate display of skill... Honestly, I'm not hating on MVP for what he did. He won, and props to him for that. I'm just saying it wasn't a legitimately good game with respect to a showcase of skill and decision making. Choosing a high-risk strategy and committing to it under the most high-pressure situation possible in the GSL is an example of both. It wasn't won based on a long-term game plan with tip-top mechanics. Props to you for noticing that. I'm just saying that your opinion of this game not being "legitimately good" makes me think you're one of those people that complains about anything to sound insightful. Everyone will remember this game. It is going to be enshrined as the finale to an amazing GSL finals. I'm just saying I tuned in for the last game hoping for a game that showcased good mechanics and decision making and I was dissapointed. I'm just saying that the execution wasn't that good on either end. Thus, despite the fact that it was the last game in the Bo7 of the GSL finals, the game wasn't, in my opinion, good. I don't care whether it was "memorable" or "surprising" or "omg MVP's got mad balls look at how much he's blowing my mind" or not. I'm just commenting on how the game itself played out. You may or may not share the same opinion, but it's entirely up to you. So you tuned in for one game of a seven game final and then want to spread your words of wisdom on it? Context is EVERYTHING in a multi-game series. If you haven't seen all the games then do not comment on the last game being "bad". The game was amazing because it was the final game in an amazing seven game GSL final, do not comment unless you have seen all the games.
Feels like the White-ra MC final game from Dreamhack where MC inbase 2 gates him.
everybody was like "how could you do that to white-ra man he's so nice i hate MC"
smart people were appreciating the whole series, the fact that MC picked up on White-ras scouting pattern and timings during the series of all things to be focusing on is amazing and then decide the timing to manage that to work made for a brilliant game / series, like you said you have to take the whole thing in mind when judging it.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On May 19 2012 21:05 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:57 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 20:56 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 20:47 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 20:42 DYEAlabaster wrote:
A record speaks about the past and not the present. Look at the statistical racial balance in THIS GSL, rather than the curve over the past 2 years. Balance is present, records are past.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just.... silly. Racial balance this GSL: 15 Terran, 10 Protoss, 7 Zerg. Game, set, match. In the ro8 there were no zergs and 5 protosses which should actually just indicate how well protoss is doing that their attrition rate is so low And a Terran won the whole thing. You can't have it both ways. If winning is purely player skill and racial balance shows who is stronger than Terran had more players than Protoss or Zerg in Code S. If winning is based on racial balance then Terran won the whole thing. Arbitrarily picking a point and saying "oh look, more Protoss at this point" does not prove you right. ...Right, just like arbitrarily picking the Ro32. I'm trying to point out why his is bad: the sample size for GSL is way too small. In any case, Terran doesn't need any buff, we're the strongest race anyways. Do you like pretending?Are you forgg's long lost brother?
If Zerg or Protoss were substantially stronger than Terran I'd play them instead. Terran units have a very high skill ceiling, and playing Terran has a few notable side effects:
1) ball enlargement
2) increased testosterone production
3) women will swoon
4) muscular growth
5) increased appreciation for bourbon and cigars
so as you can see, there are 2 reasons to stick with terran. 1) strongest race, 2) good side effects.
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On May 19 2012 21:04 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:01 Shaddar wrote:
Squirtle's the real winner of the finals in my eyes, seemed like in the first few games he was a bit off, maybe nervous but then found his groove, such a shame about the last game, would have been amazing to have a 4-3 comeback. I don't normally say things like this but I think the better player lost today. throwing 3 games away like that and you still say the "better" player lost today? it gets ridiculous :D
Because I think that if Squirtle plays at his peak, like in games 4,5,6 then he's the better player based on what I saw today. MVP just has more experience at dealing with the nerves and being on the finals stage. Nothing ridiculous about it, that series really could have gone either way.
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I never doubt mvp would do it :D
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On May 19 2012 21:07 Shaddar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:04 gTank wrote:On May 19 2012 21:01 Shaddar wrote:
Squirtle's the real winner of the finals in my eyes, seemed like in the first few games he was a bit off, maybe nervous but then found his groove, such a shame about the last game, would have been amazing to have a 4-3 comeback. I don't normally say things like this but I think the better player lost today. throwing 3 games away like that and you still say the "better" player lost today? it gets ridiculous :D Because I think that if Squirtle plays at his peak, like in games 4,5,6 then he's the better player based on what I saw today. MVP just has more experience at dealing with the nerves and being on the finals stage. Nothing ridiculous about it, that series really could have gone either way.
If MVPs wrists don't hurt and he practices, I'm pretty sure the 4 time GSL Champion is better.
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On May 19 2012 21:03 Adreme wrote:
You cant judge pro balance like this. There just arent enough televised games in a short enough span of the best (code S) on the same maps to judge anything. If you are going to judge balance, and I highly recomend you dont, the best method is the "eye test".
My point is facts do not support the widely-accepted allegation of Protoss being OP.
However you want to measure it Terran is at LEAST even. Everything from individual matches to the overall combined pro-level win statistics that regularly get posted up here show that. And yet Terrans abusing Protoss is acceptable because "lol 'toss OP".
Sorry, just pisses me off. Absolutely vile attitude from many people.
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On May 19 2012 20:58 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:53 IshinShishi wrote:
Except that the terran winning is MVP, he is not just the best terran, he is the best player, but you can keep on blaming whatever you want to blame. *facepalm* I'm not BLAMING anything. I'm telling the Terrans whining about Protoss being OP that they can shut up now.
I just got right to the actual point, your blabla about toss having only 2 championships was pretty clear, to which I responded that terran has so much because MVP exists.
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On May 19 2012 21:05 hmmm... wrote:
i noticed earlier a mod was saying the final game wasn't "legitimately good" skill-wise.
you're probably one of those people who can't appreciate the good points and tries to only identify the faults within a person.
MVP showed tremendous nerve when pulling his scvs for the SECOND time when he could have just as well gone for the easy way out by "resetting" the game as Artosis said, after he saw his push fail. Squirtle did amazingly well for holding the push as he did but made one mistake small yet big enough for MVP to decide to send his second round of scvs.
whether or not you meant it, comments like your's are pretty condescending towards MVP because they emit a hint of intent to delegitimize his accomplishments, something that was achieved through a tremendous amount of effort.
lets just say he didn't play his best games in this series. not even close.
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On May 19 2012 21:04 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:01 Wildmoon wrote:On May 19 2012 20:59 Lazzi wrote:On May 19 2012 20:49 SiroKO wrote:On May 19 2012 20:46 Lazzi wrote:
I was by from far for Squirtle, but you can't say MVP he's a bad player, nor a bonjwa. I don't blame him for using all-in: he's progamer, he does what it is needed to win, al-in are strat like other and he's a great player he has proved it so many times last year and in this season of the GSL how good it is: the three first game against Squirtle were well played and he did an amazing job against Parting .
I blame just a bit Blizzard for the MULE, couldn't they add something like the MULE can't mine if there are less than 5 scv mining or something like that? It wouldn't change the game at all except those all-in which are getting really annoying... But Terrans find current lategame against storm/colossi highly annoying as well... Put the situation into perspective please. The 3 games where nothing special went early on, MVP got demolished, and thus decided to all-in. I have no issue with the MULE helping for the two racks in its "early stage" , it was well played by MVP to play that, but there is a very precise situation where the MULE is , in my opinion, broken and it is when you can have income without SCV. My last sentence was badly formulated, T should be still able to do two racks, but with the change I propose itwouldn't last as long or with so much SCVs. Just like in some situation warpgate and larvae inject are broken. Right, but then try to find something which can fix it in those situation but not in the rest of the game . I had an idea for MULE, it isn't maybe the best , but it's better than nothing.
Asymmetrical design, different races are supposed to have different advantages and disadvantages. The mule is an advantage for terran that other races don't share. Those races have their own mechanics that are advantages in other situations. This isn't a problem to be fixed, but a feature.
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I think the most impressive part of MVP's win was the backdrop it transpired against. The running theme of this whole season was the 'changing of the guard'. MMA, Nestea, Jjakji, DRG, Genius, MC, MKP etc all vanished, by the round of 8 we had a foreigner and two liquid players and a bunch of other new up-and-coming players. The only member of the old guard was MVP and despite being dismissed at every single stage, comes through and wins it. Apart from being #4 for him, which is absurdly good in and of itself (ignoring his wrists being in shambles), the fact that in the season of change, he not only outlasted, but won it all on the highest stage yet again reflects a certain timelessness to his play that goes beyond any mechanical ability. As he said in one of his interviews, winners will, in the end, win. He's proved he's unquestionably one of them tonight.
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On May 19 2012 21:04 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:01 Shaddar wrote:
Squirtle's the real winner of the finals in my eyes, seemed like in the first few games he was a bit off, maybe nervous but then found his groove, such a shame about the last game, would have been amazing to have a 4-3 comeback. I don't normally say things like this but I think the better player lost today. throwing 3 games away like that and you still say the "better" player lost today? it gets ridiculous :D
As Naniwa said in his interview : skill is half of the game, the other half is mental. I think that Squirtle has a bit more skill but MVP has a way better mental, which makes MVP the best player. You can't judge a player about how good he can be but he good he is. MKP is the best example, every pros say that he's almost unbeatable in practice but that his mental isn't strong enough.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Lightspeaker, try not to let balance whine get to you. After all, if you start arguing with them, that just makes things worse, right? It's better to just take the high road and enjoy the game as part of the glorious TL community <3
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On May 19 2012 21:07 Shaddar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 21:04 gTank wrote:On May 19 2012 21:01 Shaddar wrote:
Squirtle's the real winner of the finals in my eyes, seemed like in the first few games he was a bit off, maybe nervous but then found his groove, such a shame about the last game, would have been amazing to have a 4-3 comeback. I don't normally say things like this but I think the better player lost today. throwing 3 games away like that and you still say the "better" player lost today? it gets ridiculous :D Because I think that if Squirtle plays at his peak, like in games 4,5,6 then he's the better player based on what I saw today. MVP just has more experience at dealing with the nerves and being on the finals stage. Nothing ridiculous about it, that series really could have gone either way.
It was close as hell without a doubt, game 7 one of the closest and most nail biting games I've ever witnessed. I thought Squirtle had it after Mvp's first attack got thrown back. I even wrote " Congratulations Mr. President " in the thread thinking it was over, but then Mvp made me look like a fool.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i47.tinypic.com/2im9g8y.jpg)
