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On May 19 2012 20:59 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:49 SiroKO wrote:On May 19 2012 20:46 Lazzi wrote:
I was by from far for Squirtle, but you can't say MVP he's a bad player, nor a bonjwa. I don't blame him for using all-in: he's progamer, he does what it is needed to win, al-in are strat like other and he's a great player he has proved it so many times last year and in this season of the GSL how good it is: the three first game against Squirtle were well played and he did an amazing job against Parting .
I blame just a bit Blizzard for the MULE, couldn't they add something like the MULE can't mine if there are less than 5 scv mining or something like that? It wouldn't change the game at all except those all-in which are getting really annoying... But Terrans find current lategame against storm/colossi highly annoying as well... Put the situation into perspective please. The 3 games where nothing special went early on, MVP got demolished, and thus decided to all-in. I have no issue with the MULE helping for the two racks in its "early stage" , it was well played by MVP to play that, but there is a very precise situation where the MULE is , in my opinion, broken and it is when you can have income without SCV. My last sentence was badly formulated, T should be still able to do two racks, but with the change I propose itwouldn't last as long or with so much SCVs.
If Squirtle holds that, you don't whine about the MULE.
Squirtle overextended and got caught out by a sick flank, overwise he wins, MVPs only chance in that series was to hope Squirtle did that and then micro the rest of the game perfectly, which he did.
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United States496 Posts
I think people are forgetting that he has been playing with broken wrists for quite some time now. I wouldnt be surprised if he took the next GSL off just to get better.
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On May 19 2012 20:59 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:49 SiroKO wrote:On May 19 2012 20:46 Lazzi wrote:
I was by from far for Squirtle, but you can't say MVP he's a bad player, nor a bonjwa. I don't blame him for using all-in: he's progamer, he does what it is needed to win, al-in are strat like other and he's a great player he has proved it so many times last year and in this season of the GSL how good it is: the three first game against Squirtle were well played and he did an amazing job against Parting .
I blame just a bit Blizzard for the MULE, couldn't they add something like the MULE can't mine if there are less than 5 scv mining or something like that? It wouldn't change the game at all except those all-in which are getting really annoying... But Terrans find current lategame against storm/colossi highly annoying as well... Put the situation into perspective please. The 3 games where nothing special went early on, MVP got demolished, and thus decided to all-in. I have no issue with the MULE helping for the two racks in its "early stage" , it was well played by MVP to play that, but there is a very precise situation where the MULE is , in my opinion, broken and it is when you can have income without SCV. My last sentence was badly formulated, T should be still able to do two racks, but with the change I propose itwouldn't last as long or with so much SCVs.
Just like in some situation warpgate and larvae inject are broken.
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I'm still not surprised by the cheese in game 7. On Atlantis Spaceship you're a mile away from your opponent, which is generally bad for Terran, MVP hadn't cheesed yet in the series, when he used tons of cheesy play in the Ro8 and Ro4. You knew he'd have to cheese at least once. If I'm squirtle I expect a proxy rax and I go looking for it. He even held it. Squirtle shouldn't have lost that game. Aiur should have had its third championship. I'm mad 
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With this GSL under his belt, the prize money pushes him to the 300k+ club. Occupants: 1; IM_MVP
Winners gonna win, haters gonna hate.
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On May 19 2012 21:01 Phobbers wrote:
With this GSL under his belt, the prize money pushes him to the 300k+ club. Occupants: 1; IM_MVP
Winners gonna win, haters gonna hate.
Wonder how much he gave to his parents
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On May 19 2012 21:00 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:57 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 20:56 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 20:47 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 20:42 DYEAlabaster wrote:
A record speaks about the past and not the present. Look at the statistical racial balance in THIS GSL, rather than the curve over the past 2 years. Balance is present, records are past.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just.... silly. Racial balance this GSL: 15 Terran, 10 Protoss, 7 Zerg. Game, set, match. In the ro8 there were no zergs and 5 protosses which should actually just indicate how well protoss is doing that their attrition rate is so low And a Terran won the whole thing. You can't have it both ways. If winning is purely player skill and racial balance shows who is stronger than Terran had more players than Protoss or Zerg in Code S. If winning is based on racial balance then Terran won the whole thing. Arbitrarily picking a point and saying "oh look, more Protoss at this point" does not prove you right. ...Right, just like arbitrarily picking the Ro32. I'm trying to point out why his is bad: the sample size for GSL is way too small. In any case, Terran doesn't need any buff, we're the strongest race anyways. Then tell the rest of the Terran race to stop complaining about OP 'toss. I'm absolutely sick of the abuse people gleefully hurl at Protoss players because everyone likes to think "oh poor little me, can't do ANYTHING against Protoss".
Believe it or not I am not the Prime Minister of the Terran Race. However, as a member of the evil underground Terran cabal syndicate conspiracy cult, I will relay this communique to my dark master and hopefully it will get disseminated to the other Terrans.
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On May 19 2012 20:58 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:56 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 20:47 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 20:42 DYEAlabaster wrote:
A record speaks about the past and not the present. Look at the statistical racial balance in THIS GSL, rather than the curve over the past 2 years. Balance is present, records are past.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just.... silly. Racial balance this GSL: 15 Terran, 10 Protoss, 7 Zerg. Game, set, match. In the ro8 there were no zergs and 5 protosses which should actually just indicate how well protoss is doing that their attrition rate is so low And a Terran won the whole thing. You can't have it both ways. If winning is purely player skill and racial balance shows who is stronger than Terran had more players than Protoss or Zerg in Code S. If winning is based on racial balance then Terran won the whole thing. Arbitrarily picking a point and saying "oh look, more Protoss at this point" does not prove you right. Except the real world doesn't work by such simplistic rules, so it's more about analyzing who won why on a case-by-case basis than coming up with some universal guideline that automatically applies to every single case.
Watch the GSL. Notice that whenever the protoss gets storm+colosus, he (almost) never loses.
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On May 19 2012 20:57 Kiett wrote:
Silly Squirtle.
Only GGplay can pull a GGplay.
Effort!
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On May 19 2012 20:56 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 20:47 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 20:42 DYEAlabaster wrote:
A record speaks about the past and not the present. Look at the statistical racial balance in THIS GSL, rather than the curve over the past 2 years. Balance is present, records are past.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just.... silly. Racial balance this GSL: 15 Terran, 10 Protoss, 7 Zerg. Game, set, match. In the ro8 there were no zergs and 5 protosses which should actually just indicate how well protoss is doing that their attrition rate is so low And a Terran won the whole thing. You can't have it both ways. If winning is purely player skill and racial balance shows who is stronger than Terran had more players than Protoss or Zerg in Code S. If winning is based on racial balance then Terran won the whole thing. Arbitrarily picking a point and saying "oh look, more Protoss at this point" does not prove you right.
You cant judge pro balance like this. There just arent enough televised games in a short enough span of the best (code S) on the same maps to judge anything. If you are going to judge balance, and I highly recomend you dont, the best method is the "eye test".
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I would not be surprised if the next patch, whenever that will be, will buff protoss
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On May 19 2012 20:52 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:45 how2TL wrote:On May 19 2012 20:35 Saracen wrote:On May 19 2012 20:32 Dodgin wrote:On May 19 2012 20:30 Saracen wrote:On May 19 2012 20:27 L3g3nd_ wrote:On May 19 2012 20:26 Saracen wrote:On May 19 2012 20:22 Ace1123 wrote:On May 19 2012 20:21 windsupernova wrote:On May 19 2012 20:20 Freak705 wrote:
Anyone that thinks that Game 7 was not exciting is nuts. That was a micro clinic! This That! ^ It was really amazing all the micro involved and such decision making Really? MVP cheesed and won a game with subpar micro. Squirtle did no better. You honestly can't say it was one of the better games you've seen. sure if it was a ladder game it would just be an okay game, but as a game 7 of an insane GSL finals comeback after 6 macro games? HOLY DOUBLE BACK FLIP BATMAN So you're saying because MVP decided to cheese in the last game of a Bo7, that made the game good? It was good because you didn't know who was going to win for a good portion of the game, it only became obvious in the last few seconds. I was entertained. So you're saying it was good because the situation made it entertaining for a casual observer, not because it was an actual legitimate display of skill... Honestly, I'm not hating on MVP for what he did. He won, and props to him for that. I'm just saying it wasn't a legitimately good game with respect to a showcase of skill and decision making. Choosing a high-risk strategy and committing to it under the most high-pressure situation possible in the GSL is an example of both. It wasn't won based on a long-term game plan with tip-top mechanics. Props to you for noticing that. I'm just saying that your opinion of this game not being "legitimately good" makes me think you're one of those people that complains about anything to sound insightful. Everyone will remember this game. It is going to be enshrined as the finale to an amazing GSL finals. I'm just saying I tuned in for the last game hoping for a game that showcased good mechanics and decision making and I was dissapointed. I'm just saying that the execution wasn't that good on either end. Thus, despite the fact that it was the last game in the Bo7 of the GSL finals, the game wasn't, in my opinion, good. I don't care whether it was "memorable" or "surprising" or "omg MVP's got mad balls look at how much he's blowing my mind" or not. I'm just commenting on how the game itself played out. You may or may not share the same opinion, but it's entirely up to you.
So you tuned in for one game of a seven game final and then want to spread your words of wisdom on it? Context is EVERYTHING in a multi-game series. If you haven't seen all the games then do not comment on the last game being "bad". The game was amazing because it was the final game in an amazing seven game GSL final, do not comment unless you have seen all the games.
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Well, /r/starcraft is flooded with posts about the games  That says more than enough about this series.
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Also I can't believe people are complaining about balance based on such a close series.
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Drat, this sounds like an amazing series overall; can't believe I fell asleep after game 3
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On May 19 2012 21:01 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:59 Lazzi wrote:On May 19 2012 20:49 SiroKO wrote:On May 19 2012 20:46 Lazzi wrote:
I was by from far for Squirtle, but you can't say MVP he's a bad player, nor a bonjwa. I don't blame him for using all-in: he's progamer, he does what it is needed to win, al-in are strat like other and he's a great player he has proved it so many times last year and in this season of the GSL how good it is: the three first game against Squirtle were well played and he did an amazing job against Parting .
I blame just a bit Blizzard for the MULE, couldn't they add something like the MULE can't mine if there are less than 5 scv mining or something like that? It wouldn't change the game at all except those all-in which are getting really annoying... But Terrans find current lategame against storm/colossi highly annoying as well... Put the situation into perspective please. The 3 games where nothing special went early on, MVP got demolished, and thus decided to all-in. I have no issue with the MULE helping for the two racks in its "early stage" , it was well played by MVP to play that, but there is a very precise situation where the MULE is , in my opinion, broken and it is when you can have income without SCV. My last sentence was badly formulated, T should be still able to do two racks, but with the change I propose itwouldn't last as long or with so much SCVs. Just like in some situation warpgate and larvae inject are broken.
Right, but then try to find something which can fix it in those situation but not in the rest of the game . I had an idea for MULE, it isn't maybe the best , but it's better than nothing.
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On May 19 2012 21:02 DYEAlabaster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:58 Talin wrote:On May 19 2012 20:56 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:On May 19 2012 20:47 Lightspeaker wrote:On May 19 2012 20:42 DYEAlabaster wrote:
A record speaks about the past and not the present. Look at the statistical racial balance in THIS GSL, rather than the curve over the past 2 years. Balance is present, records are past.
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just.... silly. Racial balance this GSL: 15 Terran, 10 Protoss, 7 Zerg. Game, set, match. In the ro8 there were no zergs and 5 protosses which should actually just indicate how well protoss is doing that their attrition rate is so low And a Terran won the whole thing. You can't have it both ways. If winning is purely player skill and racial balance shows who is stronger than Terran had more players than Protoss or Zerg in Code S. If winning is based on racial balance then Terran won the whole thing. Arbitrarily picking a point and saying "oh look, more Protoss at this point" does not prove you right. Except the real world doesn't work by such simplistic rules, so it's more about analyzing who won why on a case-by-case basis than coming up with some universal guideline that automatically applies to every single case. Watch the GSL. Notice that whenever the protoss gets storm+colosus, he (almost) never loses.
Yet Terrans are winning.
Therefore by your logic if all Protoss has to do is get Storm + Colossus they should be godlike and never lose anything.
Why aren't Protoss learning to defend these all ins / cheese so they can become godlike?
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On May 19 2012 20:51 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2012 20:48 DigitalDevil wrote:On May 19 2012 20:34 Zarahtra wrote:On May 19 2012 20:31 DigitalDevil wrote:On May 19 2012 20:28 medic_ro wrote:You know how u win vs toss ! LISTEN to BLIZZARD ! Punish Toss IN THE EARLY GAME and win ! Don't PUNISH TOSS, play straight macro game = 100% loss. That's how i keep my toss win over 60%. Never, but never, macro game I believe the message from Blizzard is to damage toss early game to come even late game. Terran going to late game with toss wouldn't necessarily mean the toss has an advantage. It's relative to how much damage was done. Blizzard is not telling you to win early game and that otherwise you lose... They kind of said, kill toss in the midgame but then you can drag it out to the lategame if you like(rather than just take the w) and fight heads on. This is what they said
We do agree that if both sides take few to no losses going into the late game, protoss can have an advantage. That said, we also know that terran players have a lot of offensive capability and harassment options at their fingertips in the mid-game. If terran players press that mid-game advantage, then protoss can’t necessarily get into the late game at their full potential, which can nullify any advantage they might have had. So, pressing that mid-game advantage is important (just as it would be important for protoss players to mitigate mid-game damage so they can to move into the late game in the strongest possible position). Ultimately, each game plays out differently, and depending on how the two races enter the late game, each side has a fair chance to win.
From that quote, they are definitely not advocating for terran to win early or during the midgame. As game designers, they would never say or even mean to hint at that. It's clear they are saying that terran has to do more damage earlier to break even or to gain an advantage later because they are supposedly designed that way. And my logic is, if you do that dmg in the early/midgame, in a lot of circumstances a followup push(rather than putting resources into upgrades that wouldn't be done in time/expos) would just win in that timeframe rather than risking getting the toss back into the game via good turtling.
It's really up to circumstances in terms of damage dealt. For example, killing 30 probes, which is insane damage, and then immediately going for a followup push is in most cases not the best of ideas. By waiting it out, you can attack at some point even later in the game where your rate of production reaches the highest effectiveness. Why would you risk trading armies with your opponent and break even? Of course, after a certain point, the advantage starts to decrease and the gap inches closer, but that's what you need to figure out.
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On May 19 2012 21:01 Shaddar wrote:
Squirtle's the real winner of the finals in my eyes, seemed like in the first few games he was a bit off, maybe nervous but then found his groove, such a shame about the last game, would have been amazing to have a 4-3 comeback. I don't normally say things like this but I think the better player lost today.
throwing 3 games away like that and you still say the "better" player lost today?
it gets ridiculous :D
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EPT
