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On May 02 2012 03:41 keindo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:39 Aocowns wrote:On May 02 2012 03:34 keindo wrote:On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote:
I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
Also, barely winning against Cruncher? C'mon, Cruncher got fuckin murdered -.- If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself. But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something. He said that about 1 game....? Just read my post. It presents the entire argument. If you don't feel like it that's cool, but then there's no real point in discussing things.
I think you're wrong. I doubt he thinks like that. He forces enemy hands with early pushes several times in ZvT. There is no reliable way to do this in ZvP, but that's not even his problem in ZvP. I dunno what to say besides I highly doubt Idra or his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters. I think I heard him mention he was blind countered in one game against GhotKing, what's the problem about that?
EDIT: I'm just being too lazy to do more than skim your entire post right now, but can you TL;DR it or something? To me it seems you're just repeating the mindset debate, which isn't really a debate anymore(As I said, just skimmed it)
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On May 02 2012 03:41 keindo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:39 Aocowns wrote:On May 02 2012 03:34 keindo wrote:On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote:
I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
Also, barely winning against Cruncher? C'mon, Cruncher got fuckin murdered -.- If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself. But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something. He said that about 1 game....? Just read my post. It presents the entire argument. If you don't feel like it that's cool, but then there's no real point in discussing things.
He's a blind fanboy dude. It's fine. He'll never listen or change his mind.
User was warned for this post
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On May 02 2012 03:47 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:41 keindo wrote:On May 02 2012 03:39 Aocowns wrote:On May 02 2012 03:34 keindo wrote:On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote:
I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
Also, barely winning against Cruncher? C'mon, Cruncher got fuckin murdered -.- If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself. But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something. He said that about 1 game....? Just read my post. It presents the entire argument. If you don't feel like it that's cool, but then there's no real point in discussing things. He's a blind fanboy dude. It's fine. He'll never listen or change his mind.
Fuck you too?
User was warned for this post
User was temp banned for this post.
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MorroW going to cruuuuuuussh a nerd.
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On May 02 2012 03:48 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:47 DamageControL wrote:On May 02 2012 03:41 keindo wrote:On May 02 2012 03:39 Aocowns wrote:On May 02 2012 03:34 keindo wrote:On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote:
I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
Also, barely winning against Cruncher? C'mon, Cruncher got fuckin murdered -.- If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself. But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something. He said that about 1 game....? Just read my post. It presents the entire argument. If you don't feel like it that's cool, but then there's no real point in discussing things. He's a blind fanboy dude. It's fine. He'll never listen or change his mind. Fuck you too?
You essentially told him "I'm too lazy to read your post but you're wrong Idra so good"
edit: use of literally.
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On May 02 2012 03:57 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 03:48 Aocowns wrote:On May 02 2012 03:47 DamageControL wrote:On May 02 2012 03:41 keindo wrote:On May 02 2012 03:39 Aocowns wrote:On May 02 2012 03:34 keindo wrote:On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote:
I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
Also, barely winning against Cruncher? C'mon, Cruncher got fuckin murdered -.- If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself. But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something. He said that about 1 game....? Just read my post. It presents the entire argument. If you don't feel like it that's cool, but then there's no real point in discussing things. He's a blind fanboy dude. It's fine. He'll never listen or change his mind. Fuck you too? You essentially told him "I'm too lazy to read your post but you're wrong Idra so good" edit: use of literally.
No, I didn't
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On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote:
EDIT: I'm just being too lazy to do more than skim your entire post right now, but can you TL;DR it or something? To me it seems you're just repeating the mindset debate, which isn't really a debate anymore(As I said, just skimmed it)
You're spending countless posts on Idra, but refuse to read an excellent summary about his current state and problems?
I don't see why even a very enthusiastic fan like you wouldn't do that, all your "counter" arguments and relativizations don't disprove his statements at all. Also, reducing Idra's issues to this "mindset" debate isn't what he says as well.
Essentially, right now Idra is an average foreigner, he's not top-tier (i.e. top 5 or near) and he has only an average winrate against other foreigners. Yes, occasionally he can beat top foreigners and sometimes even take a match of Koreans, but that's what any full-time tier 2 pro is capable of in SC2. Also, there is not "one" single issue Idra has to overcome (like so many posts suggest), he's to step up his entire play in order to become a (foreigner) tournament favorite again.
However, again, this series against Morrow should be great because of exactly these reasons.
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On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote:
I think you're wrong. I doubt he thinks like that. He forces enemy hands with early pushes several times in ZvT. There is no reliable way to do this in ZvP, but that's not even his problem in ZvP. I dunno what to say besides I highly doubt Idra or his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters. I think I heard him mention he was blind countered in one game against GhotKing, what's the problem about that?
Let's break this down into individual steps:
Fact: In 2012 IdrA has lost to almost every. single. timing push by anyone who's a contender. He loses often to timing pushes by people who aren't even close to contenders.
Fact: Some of those games are micro slip-ups, but many of those are simply "oh crap there's 20 hellions that I didn't scout and I've only made zerglings" games.
Please review the VODs if you disagree with those two facts.
Based on that, there's only two possibilities:
1) IdrA is unable to learn to scout / react.
2) IdrA is unwilling to learn to scout / react.
If you think he has a good attitude and he's trying his best, then fine. If that's the case, then it's possible IdrA reached his skill or intelligence max late 2011 and will never be a contender.
Personally, I think it's the second case. What's my evidence? Obviously I'm not Professor Xavier and can't read minds (I even said that in my post) so anyone can disagree all day long and nobody can be 100% sure. But the evidence I gave was 1) watching ladder games and him quitting when it gets out of his comfort zone, 2) 2x rage-pooling after aLive, and 3) I've only watched IdrA comment on 4-5 pro games this year. If he says he was blind countered in 2 of them, that's a problem.
But more to the point, when have you EVER seen e.g. a coach of a professional NBA team say their opponent got lucky 3s, or some football coach saying their opponent got a lucky bounce? It's ALWAYS "we should have closed out more" or things like that. Because the moment you blame your opponent for going mass hellions blind, you stop thinking about how to scout better for the NEXT time someone goes mass hellions.
On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote:
I highly doubt [...] his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters.
Please do take a couple minutes to really take things I said under consideration. I feel like you're just saying I'm wrong because that's your gut reaction. Because if you read the aLive thread, it's 100% fact that a lot of IdrA fans blame his losses on luck or blind counters. I mean, the posts are right there!
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On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote:
EDIT: I'm just being too lazy to do more than skim your entire post right now, but can you TL;DR it or something?
So you have enough energy to argue but not enough energy to read the counterarguments? Next time, please consider posting to this forum instead.
I'm done responding. It's not like debating on forums is ever productive, but thanks for completely wasting my time.
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On May 02 2012 03:54 starcraft911 wrote:
MorroW going to cruuuuuuussh a nerd.
Yeah i think so.
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You know, as much as I normally am not an Idra fan, I gotta respect the guy for never backing down from a fight.
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idra was forced into burning 1k just to save his image, wp by naniwa
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On May 02 2012 05:05 mTwTT1 wrote:
idra was forced into burning 1k just to save his image, wp by naniwa
well they get real salaries from e-sports, so its not so bad.
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On May 02 2012 05:19 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:05 mTwTT1 wrote:
idra was forced into burning 1k just to save his image, wp by naniwa well they get real salaries from e-sports, so its not so bad.
indeed and 1k is a small sum to pay just so u dont look like a pussy, naniwa should have said 5k
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On May 02 2012 05:35 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:19 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 05:05 mTwTT1 wrote:
idra was forced into burning 1k just to save his image, wp by naniwa well they get real salaries from e-sports, so its not so bad. indeed and 1k is a small sum to pay just so u dont look like a pussy, naniwa should have said 5k
You reall think he has no chance? 
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On May 02 2012 05:47 McFeser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:35 mTwTT1 wrote:On May 02 2012 05:19 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 05:05 mTwTT1 wrote:
idra was forced into burning 1k just to save his image, wp by naniwa well they get real salaries from e-sports, so its not so bad. indeed and 1k is a small sum to pay just so u dont look like a pussy, naniwa should have said 5k You reall think he has no chance?
0% chance in his current shape, theyre playing in 1 month tho so who knows
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Surprised Idras being invited to another showmatch after the one with alive o.o
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On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote:
I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
Also, barely winning against Cruncher? C'mon, Cruncher got fuckin murdered -.-
"I'm not going to read your thoughtful post because it's long. However, I'm going to share an anecdote about this one time when Idra almost beat a couple of Koreans if it hadn't been because, you know, they attacked."
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Also, won't be able to watch the NASL showmatch, but I'll be rooting for Morrow. It has the potential of being a good and close series though.
This extra content in form of showmatches is a great idea. It'll bring matches a lot of people want to see and will be willing to pay for, while still having the main content free. Great move by NASL.
Naniwa vs Idra will be awesome as well.
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EPT
