What is Sunday Showdown? NASL Sunday Showdown is a weekly event where NASL flys out two of the top Starcraft 2 competitors for a 1 Day $2000 BO7 Showmatch LIVE from Anthill Pub at UC Irvine. The showmatch is streamed and casted live ON SITE and viewers are encouraged to attend the event!
If Morrow wins, especially if he cheeses pretty heavily, I think Idra will actually fight him. So looking forward to that. :D
Doesnt even have to be cheese, if more than 1 reaper shows up, any number of cloaked banshees at any point, a lot of hellions etc. Doesnt matter exactly what !
On May 01 2012 11:44 Muggs wrote: I hope Idra comes to play. His games lately have been frustrating to watch.
QFT.
So it sounds like there is some rivalry or something between the two players stemming from a match a long time ago. Was said match the IEM Finals at the end of the beta?
Why does NASL still have Shattered in their map pool? I was wondering this the other day. That map is not only extremely outdated for tournament play but its even outdated for ladder play. O_o
On May 01 2012 11:44 Muggs wrote: I hope Idra comes to play. His games lately have been frustrating to watch.
QFT.
So it sounds like there is some rivalry or something between the two players stemming from a match a long time ago. Was said match the IEM Finals at the end of the beta?
Yeah, it was one of the first IEMs. Morrow abused the five rax reaper to take care of Idra. Or something like that.
I really want MorroW to win but I think IdrA will take it....
unless MorroW does his sick 2rax and puts IdrA into 6pool mode like aLive did. Also if MorroW plays like he did vs Leenock, we could be in for a surprise.
On May 01 2012 12:08 Bouyt wrote: I thought Gretorp said that NASL wouldn't invite IdrA for showmatches again as punishment for what happened in the aLive series.
Should be a good series nonetheless unless IdrA loses the first 2 games.
On May 01 2012 11:42 EcstatiC wrote: why do people keep putting idra in showmatches? havent we already learnt our lesson? he's gonna lose 2 games, then six pool the rest
I hope not, with 1500$ on the line I don't see him not caring so to speak, but we shall see.
On May 01 2012 12:30 Hulavuta wrote: So can someone tell me what "CC" is? I know (I think) it's a sponsor but I don't really know what CC is. Googling CC is kind of too vague to help.
On May 01 2012 12:30 Hulavuta wrote: So can someone tell me what "CC" is? I know (I think) it's a sponsor but I don't really know what CC is. Googling CC is kind of too vague to help.
On May 01 2012 12:30 Hulavuta wrote: So can someone tell me what "CC" is? I know (I think) it's a sponsor but I don't really know what CC is. Googling CC is kind of too vague to help.
On May 01 2012 12:10 LittleAtari wrote: A showmatch with IdrA...
are we sure this is a good idea? Especially after the most evil genius incident?
What happened there?
Anyways, IdrA's ZvT used to be pretty good, although I don't know how strong it is at the moment, given his current lackluster form. I really hope he turns on the heat though Go IdrA! ^^
This could either be the best or worst time for NASL to start the PPV. It could be a really good series, or Idra could get angry, cheese and make a quick exit.
Man after that showmatch against Alive. I lost hope in Idra in bringing good games in showmatches. Please just dun throw in some silly 6 pool please and play standard in all the games and it will be good. It's like Idra does not even care at all about showmatches.
On May 01 2012 12:10 LittleAtari wrote: A showmatch with IdrA...
are we sure this is a good idea? Especially after the most evil genius incident?
What happened there?
Anyways, IdrA's ZvT used to be pretty good, although I don't know how strong it is at the moment, given his current lackluster form. I really hope he turns on the heat though Go IdrA! ^^
On May 01 2012 12:10 LittleAtari wrote: A showmatch with IdrA...
are we sure this is a good idea? Especially after the most evil genius incident?
What happened there?
Anyways, IdrA's ZvT used to be pretty good, although I don't know how strong it is at the moment, given his current lackluster form. I really hope he turns on the heat though Go IdrA! ^^
On May 01 2012 12:10 LittleAtari wrote: A showmatch with IdrA...
are we sure this is a good idea? Especially after the most evil genius incident?
What happened there?
Anyways, IdrA's ZvT used to be pretty good, although I don't know how strong it is at the moment, given his current lackluster form. I really hope he turns on the heat though Go IdrA! ^^
After going 2-0 Idra then 6 pooled games 3 & 4.
Didn't he do the same thing vs Alive in their NASL show match a while back?
On May 01 2012 11:44 Muggs wrote: I hope Idra comes to play. His games lately have been frustrating to watch.
QFT.
So it sounds like there is some rivalry or something between the two players stemming from a match a long time ago. Was said match the IEM Finals at the end of the beta?
Yeah, it was one of the first IEMs. Morrow abused the five rax reaper to take care of Idra. Or something like that.
Yes but also don't forget that shortly after that Morrow said he was switching to Zerg. And then Idra said if Morrow ever won a big tournament as Zerg, then Idra would never use the word "balance" again, or something like that lol
ROFL! Idra didn't even give a damn about his recent showmatch which was primarily there to promote a team sponsor and his very own team, you know those guys who pay his salary. Hard to think he's even going to bother trying here as well. He'll phone it in the moment he loses a couple and enjoy his free trip and $500. Since it's paywalled I'll enjoy reading the reactions.
On May 01 2012 13:37 -JoKeR- wrote: NASL doesn't learn, this is the same guy that disrespected them a few months back against aLive in their show match.
They only care about the numbers he brings to the stream. Considering he's still insanely popular they proberly will get them.
I do like the MorroW choice though, i had my doubts but his terran play vs zerg is fantastic to watch.
ROFL at Idra above. I actually hope Idra does well, or at least shows good games, I don't really like his personality, but its sucky seeing doing soooo badly, I'd like a return of gosu Idra, at least for a bit.
so either idra wins with ridiculous handicaps and gains nothing from it or wanina rapes him despite being hugely handicapped? sounds like a win win scenario to me
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
Funny, you see naniwa crying on twitter for people talking shit. Then you go on TL and read his posts. Double standards is a wonderous thing.
OT: I'm considering buying their pass just for this match, but you never know what kind of IdrA shows up for these type of matches. If it's the one who really wants to win, this will be epic.
Edit: If I buy this season pass, do I get access to HD streams for the eventual LAN-finals?
On May 01 2012 15:38 Naniwa wrote: thats fine ^^ you can also choose all the maps. i have to practice for gsl now. lets do this afterwards!
both pick 3 maps and a neutral start map, whenever you want. im busy late may + june.
idra, come on dude...
you lose to random NA protosses on your stream and this guy has beaten nestea and leenock... Naniwa is top 3 foreigner and you probably are around 20. learn to pick and choose your battles man Would hate to see this wind up badly for you.
On May 01 2012 15:38 Naniwa wrote: thats fine ^^ you can also choose all the maps. i have to practice for gsl now. lets do this afterwards!
both pick 3 maps and a neutral start map, whenever you want. im busy late may + june.
idra, come on dude...
you lose to random NA protosses on your stream and this guy has beaten nestea and leenock... Naniwa is top 3 foreigner and you probably are around 20. learn to pick and choose your battles man Would hate to see this wind up badly for you.
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
Funny, you see naniwa crying on twitter for people talking shit. Then you go on TL and read his posts. Double standards is a wonderous thing.
OT: I'm considering buying their pass just for this match, but you never know what kind of IdrA shows up for these type of matches. If it's the one who really wants to win, this will be epic.
Edit: If I buy this season pass, do I get access to HD streams for the eventual LAN-finals?
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
Funny, you see naniwa crying on twitter for people talking shit. Then you go on TL and read his posts. Double standards is a wonderous thing.
OT: I'm considering buying their pass just for this match, but you never know what kind of IdrA shows up for these type of matches. If it's the one who really wants to win, this will be epic.
Edit: If I buy this season pass, do I get access to HD streams for the eventual LAN-finals?
why is wanting to play someone bm?
If your intentions behind that post were not how they came across, then I take back what I said
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
Funny, you see naniwa crying on twitter for people talking shit. Then you go on TL and read his posts. Double standards is a wonderous thing.
OT: I'm considering buying their pass just for this match, but you never know what kind of IdrA shows up for these type of matches. If it's the one who really wants to win, this will be epic.
Edit: If I buy this season pass, do I get access to HD streams for the eventual LAN-finals?
why is wanting to play someone bm?
If your intentions behind that post were not how they came across, then I take back what I said
Idra is another one of people who "talks shit" about Naniwa. Pretty sure he said Naniwa is a psychopath on SOTG.. amongst other things.
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
Funny, you see naniwa crying on twitter for people talking shit. Then you go on TL and read his posts. Double standards is a wonderous thing.
OT: I'm considering buying their pass just for this match, but you never know what kind of IdrA shows up for these type of matches. If it's the one who really wants to win, this will be epic.
Edit: If I buy this season pass, do I get access to HD streams for the eventual LAN-finals?
I am pretty sure this is a yes. They were included in the last two seasons as well.
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
too bad. much as i despise that matchup you're fucking awful pvz.
^^ we can play two weeks after my gsl run and see just how awful i am
how about we both put up 1000 dollar each ^_^
Since when do professional players go all wild wild west on each other. Play a showmatch on NASL or something, why throw around these foolish claims about betting against each other. Nothing but macho showing off...
On May 01 2012 15:38 Naniwa wrote: thats fine ^^ you can also choose all the maps. i have to practice for gsl now. lets do this afterwards!
both pick 3 maps and a neutral start map, whenever you want. im busy late may + june.
idra, come on dude...
you lose to random NA protosses on your stream and this guy has beaten nestea and leenock... Naniwa is top 3 foreigner and you probably are around 20. learn to pick and choose your battles man Would hate to see this wind up badly for you.
I just want to state that if Naniwa played on the NA ladder (or any pro), they will occasionally lose to a no name bad zerg. It happens, especially in sc2. I doubt you would say the same about naniwa if he did the same thing
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
too bad. much as i despise that matchup you're fucking awful pvz.
^^ we can play two weeks after my gsl run and see just how awful i am
how about we both put up 1000 dollar each ^_^
Since when do professional players go all wild wild west on each other. Play a showmatch on NASL or something, why throw around these foolish claims about betting against each other. Nothing but macho showing off...
Because this is better than a NASL show match. Macho showing off? It's two respected players confident in their skill to wager their own funds, in a series against each other.
im so exited for Idra vs Naniwa. Well exited for Morrow vs Idra too bad the second show-match will be better. Nani has to prove that he isn't weak versus Z and Idra can show us he can win versus P.
On May 01 2012 17:06 m3rciless wrote: NaNiWa, you're a god amongst men. I have literally 100% faith you will drink IdrA's blood with even 1 week of PvZ practice after GSL.
IdrA: I don't think you realize how irrelevant you* are in the foreigner skill pool these days.
this thread is quickly getting derailed... on topic though I wonder if Morrow would be allowed to race change midway if he felt like it. From Morrow I don't think it would come as a surprise.
On May 01 2012 17:36 JiYan wrote: this thread is quickly getting derailed... on topic though I wonder if Morrow would be allowed to race change midway if he felt like it. From Morrow I don't think it would come as a surprise.
Why would he race change? He always plays TvZ, switching to ZvZ midway would be stupid.
On May 01 2012 17:36 BlackPanther wrote: Something seems off about all of this. IdrA putting $1000 vs a top 5 protoss? He must have something up his sleave.
Naniwa isn't top 5 protoss lol, especially at PvZ.
On May 01 2012 17:36 BlackPanther wrote: Something seems off about all of this. IdrA putting $1000 vs a top 5 protoss? He must have something up his sleave.
Idra thinks he will get more viewers to his stream by doing this to offset his lose on that showmatch.
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
too bad. much as i despise that matchup you're fucking awful pvz.
^^ we can play two weeks after my gsl run and see just how awful i am
how about we both put up 1000 dollar each ^_^
Since when do professional players go all wild wild west on each other. Play a showmatch on NASL or something, why throw around these foolish claims about betting against each other. Nothing but macho showing off...
Because this is better than a NASL show match. Macho showing off? It's two respected players confident in their skill to wager their own funds, in a series against each other.
Sometimes I forget how young this community is on average. I'll bet you X on condition Y is something you do in primary school. Nowhere in professional sports do you see people putting money on the table to challenge someone. Could you imagine Tyson saying to Holyfield: "here's 20k, you and me, mano a mano"? No, right? It's silly. Nor did Jordan challenge Malone to a one on one. It's childish.
Which isn't to say that Idra and Naniwa shouldn't play the showmatch nor that I'm not looking forward to it.
On May 01 2012 17:06 m3rciless wrote: NaNiWa, you're a god amongst men. I have literally 100% faith you will drink IdrA's blood with even 1 week of PvZ practice after GSL.
IdrA: I don't think you realize how irrelevant you* are in the foreigner skill pool these days.
*and all of NA except maybe violet?
viOLet is Korean...?
Korean player on a russian team. Definitely american.
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
too bad. much as i despise that matchup you're fucking awful pvz.
^^ we can play two weeks after my gsl run and see just how awful i am
how about we both put up 1000 dollar each ^_^
Since when do professional players go all wild wild west on each other. Play a showmatch on NASL or something, why throw around these foolish claims about betting against each other. Nothing but macho showing off...
Because this is better than a NASL show match. Macho showing off? It's two respected players confident in their skill to wager their own funds, in a series against each other.
Sometimes I forget how young this community is on average. I'll bet you X on condition Y is something you do in primary school. Nowhere in professional sports do you see people putting money on the table to challenge someone. Could you imagine Tyson saying to Holyfield: "here's 20k, you and me, mano a mano"? No, right? It's silly. Nor did Jordan challenge Malone to a one on one. It's childish.
Which isn't to say that Idra and Naniwa shouldn't play the showmatch nor that I'm not looking forward to it.
Money matches happened all the time in wc3, afaik. Also, just because it doesn't happen in pro sports is not a valid argument that it shouldnt happen in sc2. Personally, i think it's awesome.
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
too bad. much as i despise that matchup you're fucking awful pvz.
^^ we can play two weeks after my gsl run and see just how awful i am
how about we both put up 1000 dollar each ^_^
Since when do professional players go all wild wild west on each other. Play a showmatch on NASL or something, why throw around these foolish claims about betting against each other. Nothing but macho showing off...
Because this is better than a NASL show match. Macho showing off? It's two respected players confident in their skill to wager their own funds, in a series against each other.
Sometimes I forget how young this community is on average. I'll bet you X on condition Y is something you do in primary school. Nowhere in professional sports do you see people putting money on the table to challenge someone. Could you imagine Tyson saying to Holyfield: "here's 20k, you and me, mano a mano"? No, right? It's silly. Nor did Jordan challenge Malone to a one on one. It's childish.
Which isn't to say that Idra and Naniwa shouldn't play the showmatch nor that I'm not looking forward to it.
Since you feel like this should be tied around sports. Think of this as a skins match, golf. The other points you attempted to make, don't make sense for this discussion.
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
too bad. much as i despise that matchup you're fucking awful pvz.
^^ we can play two weeks after my gsl run and see just how awful i am
how about we both put up 1000 dollar each ^_^
Since when do professional players go all wild wild west on each other. Play a showmatch on NASL or something, why throw around these foolish claims about betting against each other. Nothing but macho showing off...
Because this is better than a NASL show match. Macho showing off? It's two respected players confident in their skill to wager their own funds, in a series against each other.
Sometimes I forget how young this community is on average. I'll bet you X on condition Y is something you do in primary school. Nowhere in professional sports do you see people putting money on the table to challenge someone. Could you imagine Tyson saying to Holyfield: "here's 20k, you and me, mano a mano"? No, right? It's silly. Nor did Jordan challenge Malone to a one on one. It's childish.
Which isn't to say that Idra and Naniwa shouldn't play the showmatch nor that I'm not looking forward to it.
Obviously showmatches are 1000x easier to organise when it's done online, with only two people involved.
I don't understand why IdrA gets invited after the showmatch with Alive :S I've always been a fan of IdrA, but as of late no more. I'm not gonna watch this
On May 01 2012 17:36 BlackPanther wrote: Something seems off about all of this. IdrA putting $1000 vs a top 5 protoss? He must have something up his sleave.
Naniwa isn't top 5 protoss lol, especially at PvZ.
And Idra is top 5 zerg, especially at ZvP ?
Should be intresting, though i put my money on Naniwa, give him a couple a weeks to shape up his vs Z and he's going to roll over Idra.
Well, I thought it'll be just an awful series, considering how much IrdA cares about showing fans good games in showmatches, especially when he's paid for just showing up. I wouldn't watch it anyway, so it seemed neither good _or_ bad.
But then:
This is a SUBSCRIBER ONLY event. You can only watch if you have a Season 3 HD Pass for NASL Season 3. There will be no free stream.
Lulz, que the , and check up reddit right after the series ends xD Peeps gonna be ragin'. They didn't appreciate his play in content provided for free, so I somehow doubt they'll be enthusiastic for the idea of it being premium xD
To clear a few things up, we will have 9 of these Sunday Showdowns. In the past they might have said that Idra wouldn't be invited anymore after what happened vs Alive but obviously NASL has gone trough quite some changes All the casters had a saying in the showmatches of this year, and I voted pretty strong for this one. I love both Idra and MorroW and I think every sc2 fan who has been watching since day 1 will always remember that IEM Gamescom final, maybe for all the wrong reasons, but that was the first international final of a big SC2 tournament we've ever had, and that is something that we will always remember. Just for that simple reason, almost 2 years later, I thought it would be super awesome to have a Idra vs MorroW rematch and the other guys agreed with me. A lot of things have changed at NASL, and of course bringing in new people means bringing in new opinions, I'm super stoked for Sunday, and I have absolute faith that we are going to see a killer bo7 ^^. this tvz makes my protoss heart beats faster, that must mean something :D. Also, can't wait to announce the other upcoming matches, unfortunately we can't announce untill the tickets are booked, but it's looking really good guys. Really good ^^;;
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
Funny, you see naniwa crying on twitter for people talking shit. Then you go on TL and read his posts. Double standards is a wonderous thing.
OT: I'm considering buying their pass just for this match, but you never know what kind of IdrA shows up for these type of matches. If it's the one who really wants to win, this will be epic.
Edit: If I buy this season pass, do I get access to HD streams for the eventual LAN-finals?
You will have acces to the other upcoming 7 Sunday Showdowns, 1080p for every regular broadcast and the offline finals , and other extra's. Ps considiring the fact that you're swedish, I don't think you will regret it looking at our possible line-ups for upcoming weeks!
I really love watching IdrA playing macrogames. I don't care if he wins or lose, his style is very fun to watch and I think he should continue with that and ditch the 6 pools
IdrA vs Morrow should be cool. IdrA vs Naniwa (later on perhaps) as well.
I like that the Naniwa Idra talk ended relatively GM from both sides, there hope yet for those 2. I think that people dismiss Idra far too easily these, sure he's had a shit 2012, but forget that he was genuinely good last year, and not just at the beginning at the GSL. He had a great run later on, winning IEM Guangzhou, top 8 at IPL 3, Top 4 at MLG Orlando and winning that AUS ROG invitational. I think he'll give Morrow a good series, considering that its live and Idra isn't as likely to six pool and rage when the player is in the same room as him.
I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Wow this is a pretty sick event. Props to NASL for flying the guys out and doing this completely live. HUGE prize pool as well. I regret that I can't watch more of the NASL this season as they seem to have really stepped up their game.
On May 01 2012 18:16 Yaki wrote: Why does Idra still play showmatches ? He 6 pools all the time and gets crushed.
The difference being this is played live, with audience, offline event, so he probably won't double 6 pool. ZvT is Idra's best match up, and Morrow's TvZ is pretty good, so I think these are going to be great matches
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Easy now. I'm not a superfan of Idra but, seriously, dont try to psychoanalyse a guy if you have no idea who he truly is. ~~
I think the match will be quite even against Morrow and I would love to see Nani vs Idra in a showmatch!
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
Funny, you see naniwa crying on twitter for people talking shit. Then you go on TL and read his posts. Double standards is a wonderous thing.
OT: I'm considering buying their pass just for this match, but you never know what kind of IdrA shows up for these type of matches. If it's the one who really wants to win, this will be epic.
Edit: If I buy this season pass, do I get access to HD streams for the eventual LAN-finals?
why is wanting to play someone bm?
If your intentions behind that post were not how they came across, then I take back what I said
Idra is another one of people who "talks shit" about Naniwa. Pretty sure he said Naniwa is a psychopath on SOTG.. amongst other things.
First of all I dont think Naniwa should call anyone out before he accept the showmatch with Stephano whom have been trying to get that match for like 2 months now.
Lool, if Idra and Naniwa really do this and get Day9 for a caster (with max troll instructions), I bet it would get as much viewers as dreamhack's final.
Back on topic: Morrow's TvZ is pretty sick, I can't see this going well for IdrA, but who knows.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Why would NASL invite Idra to a showmatch again? The last time he was invited to play a NASL showmatch he lost a bo7 in under 30 minutes and 6pooled twice in those games. Sorry, but I really don't understand NASL inviting him again to anything, cause that was just disrespectful.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
I'm pretty damn good at reading people (confirmed by experience many times). I mean, even if Idra says I'm wrong, I'd assume he's lying, I'm that good. (i'm almost serious)
He can stay a progamer if mediocre-decent money income is one of his top priorities. He said he doesn't enjoy the game, and he isn't really likely to win anything big soon. Changing a profession could bring him more joy, and more money in the long run. Just saying.
Of course, he CAN be a better player, and enjoy the game more if his attitude evolves.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
On May 01 2012 20:51 Champloo wrote: Why would NASL invite Idra to a showmatch again? The last time he was invited to play a NASL showmatch he lost a bo7 in under 30 minutes and 6pooled twice in those games. Sorry, but I really don't understand NASL inviting him again to anything, cause that was just disrespectful.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
He is definitely not a top 10 foreigner.
He definitely is though.
Stephano Naniwa Thorzain Huk are definitely better than Idra
then come White-Ra Sase Ret Kas Sheth Dimaga Grubby Socke NightEnd (I probably forgot some too)
Who are IMO capable of winning or losing a let's say BO7 vs Idra, depending on the form. But yeah Idra probably is top10.
On May 01 2012 17:06 m3rciless wrote: NaNiWa, you're a god amongst men. I have literally 100% faith you will drink IdrA's blood with even 1 week of PvZ practice after GSL.
IdrA: I don't think you realize how irrelevant you* are in the foreigner skill pool these days.
*and all of NA except maybe violet?
Do you realize how irrelevant your opinion (as well as mine for that matter, but I haven't said anything about those 2 duking it out) is?
Anyway, can't wait to see IdrA vs Morrow and IdrA vs Naniwa. Seems like some good matches
On May 01 2012 20:12 Benjamin99 wrote: Holt shit this thread lol.
First of all I dont think Naniwa should call anyone out before he accept the showmatch with Stephano whom have been trying to get that match for like 2 months now.
I think you must have missed the part where Naniwa accepted the Showmatch and Stephano backed down .
On May 01 2012 18:42 MCDayC wrote: I like that the Naniwa Idra talk ended relatively GM from both sides, there hope yet for those 2. I think that people dismiss Idra far too easily these, sure he's had a shit 2012, but forget that he was genuinely good last year, and not just at the beginning at the GSL. He had a great run later on, winning IEM Guangzhou, top 8 at IPL 3, Top 4 at MLG Orlando and winning that AUS ROG invitational. I think he'll give Morrow a good series, considering that its live and Idra isn't as likely to six pool and rage when the player is in the same room as him.
According to djwheat idra and huk were both in the EG lair at the time of the matches so he wouldve been in the same room as huk.
On May 01 2012 18:42 MCDayC wrote: I like that the Naniwa Idra talk ended relatively GM from both sides, there hope yet for those 2. I think that people dismiss Idra far too easily these, sure he's had a shit 2012, but forget that he was genuinely good last year, and not just at the beginning at the GSL. He had a great run later on, winning IEM Guangzhou, top 8 at IPL 3, Top 4 at MLG Orlando and winning that AUS ROG invitational. I think he'll give Morrow a good series, considering that its live and Idra isn't as likely to six pool and rage when the player is in the same room as him.
According to djwheat idra and huk were both in the EG lair at the time of the matches so he wouldve been in the same room as huk.
The fact that they're flown out, and there's going to be a live audience is going to make a huge difference. Idra thrives under such circumstances, and I am extremely doubtful that he's willling to throw it
More so, I think IdrA really has something to prove. According to TLPD, the only time IdrA has beaten MorroW was during that time that MorroW still played ZvZ. Everytime they've played TvZ it's been in MorroW's favor.
IdrA is probably much more motivated to beat MorroW. There's a bit of a rivalry there, unlike IdrA's match vs aLive. idk bout the huk match though.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
He is definitely not a top 10 foreigner.
He definitely is though.
Stephano Naniwa Thorzain Huk are definitely better than Idra
then come White-Ra Sase Ret Kas Sheth Dimaga Grubby Socke NightEnd (I probably forgot some too)
Who are IMO capable of winning or losing a let's say BO7 vs Idra, depending on the form. But yeah Idra probably is top10.
Nerchio, and he belongs in the "definitely better than idra" category
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
He is definitely not a top 10 foreigner.
He definitely is though.
Stephano Naniwa Thorzain Huk are definitely better than Idra
then come White-Ra Sase Ret Kas Sheth Dimaga Grubby Socke NightEnd (I probably forgot some too)
Who are IMO capable of winning or losing a let's say BO7 vs Idra, depending on the form. But yeah Idra probably is top10.
Nerchio, and he belongs in the "definitely better than idra" category
5 rax reaper first game please. I remember watching Morrow vs Idra live on the front seats at GamesCom 2010. If it worked then, it will work now for sure. Idra wont expect! :D
good luck have fun hoping to show good games and thank you very much nasl for inviting me, i got super happy and flattered
naniwa - out of here, if you were good enough youd be invited to showmatches instead of putting up your own money. go practice for your little tournament in korea, whatever its called now i cant remember~
On May 01 2012 20:12 Benjamin99 wrote: Holt shit this thread lol.
First of all I dont think Naniwa should call anyone out before he accept the showmatch with Stephano whom have been trying to get that match for like 2 months now.
I think you must have missed the part where Naniwa accepted the Showmatch and Stephano backed down .
Hmm no he didnt Stephano just didnt wanted to donate his own money but he are very interested in a showmatch. Matter infact he have wanted a showmatch for ages against Naniwa. You might want to keep up on the facts.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
He is definitely not a top 10 foreigner.
He definitely is though.
Stephano Naniwa Thorzain Huk are definitely better than Idra
then come White-Ra Sase Ret Kas Sheth Dimaga Grubby Socke NightEnd (I probably forgot some too)
Who are IMO capable of winning or losing a let's say BO7 vs Idra, depending on the form. But yeah Idra probably is top10.
Nerchio, and he belongs in the "definitely better than idra" category
Judged by what?
His result the last 6 months. Can you read stats plz and then come back and we can have this discussion again. Its pointless arguing with you when you dont even check result or stats the last 6 months you just spout useless crap without any sort of evidence to backup you enormous claims.
Whats the point of having ELO or statistic or tournaments if people like you just ignore all the facts becuase in you mind Idra is still a top competive player.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
He is definitely not a top 10 foreigner.
He definitely is though.
Stephano Naniwa Thorzain Huk are definitely better than Idra
then come White-Ra Sase Ret Kas Sheth Dimaga Grubby Socke NightEnd (I probably forgot some too)
Who are IMO capable of winning or losing a let's say BO7 vs Idra, depending on the form. But yeah Idra probably is top10.
Morrow, Nerchio, Lucifron, BeastyQT, Feast... as you said, the list still may be extended, but the point is, almost any foreigner can win or lose a BO7 series against Idra at the moment.
Right now, Idra is an average foreigner, he can take series off of most other foreigners and occasionally beat top foreigners or sometimes even koreans, but that's the case for almost any full-time pro in SC2. He's in the spectrum where talking about top 10 or top 20 doesn't really matter because he's in no way significantly better than the wide range of other foreigners. And that's exactly what everyone could observe in at least the past 6 months.
However, this also indicates Idra vs. Morrow should be a good series because it can go either way.
this thread is full of all sorts of win. this thread should be hyped more cuz its making me want to buy a pass for this showmatch! i think i just might. morrow/idra FIGHTING!
On May 01 2012 23:14 MorroW wrote: good luck have fun hoping to show good games and thank you very much nasl for inviting me, i got super happy and flattered
naniwa - out of here, if you were good enough youd be invited to showmatches instead of putting up your own money. go practice for your little tournament in korea, whatever its called now i cant remember~
:-)
hahaha, yessssss. thank god I follow Morrow on twitter or I would have missed all this....cannot wait for everything that's already been put out there the last 9 pages of this thread!!!
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
too bad. much as i despise that matchup you're fucking awful pvz.
^^ we can play two weeks after my gsl run and see just how awful i am
how about we both put up 1000 dollar each ^_^
Since when do professional players go all wild wild west on each other. Play a showmatch on NASL or something, why throw around these foolish claims about betting against each other. Nothing but macho showing off...
Because this is better than a NASL show match. Macho showing off? It's two respected players confident in their skill to wager their own funds, in a series against each other.
Sometimes I forget how young this community is on average. I'll bet you X on condition Y is something you do in primary school. Nowhere in professional sports do you see people putting money on the table to challenge someone. Could you imagine Tyson saying to Holyfield: "here's 20k, you and me, mano a mano"? No, right? It's silly. Nor did Jordan challenge Malone to a one on one. It's childish.
Which isn't to say that Idra and Naniwa shouldn't play the showmatch nor that I'm not looking forward to it.
Money matches happened all the time in wc3, afaik. Also, just because it doesn't happen in pro sports is not a valid argument that it shouldnt happen in sc2. Personally, i think it's awesome.
These kind of bets are soooo common, just not in SC2... Happens all the time in poker etc. Don't you think it happens in golf, dart, snooker, etc aswell? I bet you it's a lot more common then you think...
So Naniwa all but confirmed he's going to be in one of these showmatches against a player of his choice (since he said they wouldn't let him pick Idra). In before Naniwa vs Thorzain is announced.
On May 01 2012 20:12 Benjamin99 wrote: Holt shit this thread lol.
First of all I dont think Naniwa should call anyone out before he accept the showmatch with Stephano whom have been trying to get that match for like 2 months now.
I think you must have missed the part where Naniwa accepted the Showmatch and Stephano backed down .
Hmm no he didnt Stephano just didnt wanted to donate his own money but he are very interested in a showmatch. Matter infact he have wanted a showmatch for ages against Naniwa. You might want to keep up on the facts.
If there's no money on the line, why would anyone play their best? To show good games? Reveal new strategies just for the pride?
Yeah, that's probably it..
If you want a REAL showmatch, there has to be something on the line. Otherwise nobody will play their best...
Maybe if Idra have to put from his own pocket he will play legit games, not put up half-ass shows as those we've seen lately which make him look like a total loser?
On May 02 2012 00:13 subl1me wrote: Holy shit Morrow, this thread is burning
haha dont worry
i was just joking. me and naniwa are very good friends and ive been cheering on him very much in gsl (cant describe how excited i am for nani vs mvp xD)
On May 01 2012 20:10 Digitalis wrote: He called him a sociopath not a psychopath.
There's no functional difference between terms sociopathy, psychopathy, antisocial personality, antisociality, sociopathic personality with antisocial reactions or personality disorder of antisocial type. They're refering to the same phenomenon, and the only difference is who is the author, and what angle he's writing given text from. There has been suggestions to use one term sociopath for all people with the disorder, and psychopath only to those with criminal tendencies, but it never caught on, as no serious researcher will do this since there's been very little success in telling the two groups apart on any other basis than "got caught".
That said... if he called him goal oriented, fearless person that does not make needless attachements - doesn't seen like such a bad thing. Though I'm not sure where he got superficial niceness vibe from Nani, that's kind of a biggie.
As an Idra fan I sure hope he doesn't decide to 6 pool if he start losing. Has a bad habit of doing that in show matches. Should be easy for Idra if he plays well.
People who are trash talking Idra and Naniwa need to grow the fuck up. Please it's embarrassing to see those sort of posts and they're the reasons why pros don't post at TL more. I'm going to go a step further and say that haters are retarded. This is esports, not football. If you want to legitimize esports you can't have fans trash talking like teenagers on Xbox live. Being a fan of a player is great. "Hating" a player, ie openly being an asshole to someone who's contributed more to the scene than you probably ever will, is stupid. You have every right to not like X or Y player, but openly berating a player for a reason that doesn't involve that player doing something that harms esports is just dumb. Don't do it. Players will do it to themselves, but they've earned that right because they're the reasons esports exists. Fans are important. Haters kill esports. Think about it, stop trash-talking, thanks!
Props to Idra vs Naniwa, I'd watch that shit. x)
And also props to Morrow vs Idra, nice show match.
On May 01 2012 20:12 Benjamin99 wrote: Holt shit this thread lol.
First of all I dont think Naniwa should call anyone out before he accept the showmatch with Stephano whom have been trying to get that match for like 2 months now.
I think you must have missed the part where Naniwa accepted the Showmatch and Stephano backed down .
Hmm no he didnt Stephano just didnt wanted to donate his own money but he are very interested in a showmatch. Matter infact he have wanted a showmatch for ages against Naniwa. You might want to keep up on the facts.
NaNi wanted to play a serious match for money. He wants to play a serious match for money now, as well. He is not interested in playing a silly match for the hell of it. He has been consistent. Stephano, on the other hand, was inconsistent with his joking around about throwing money in.
IdrA is known for his ZvT beating players like Bomber, MVP, and MKP. On the other hand MorroW is a monster at TvZ, beating none other than the a ZvT specialist in Leenock in a Bo7. This should be a fantastic series, IdrA fighting!~
On May 01 2012 17:36 BlackPanther wrote: Something seems off about all of this. IdrA putting $1000 vs a top 5 protoss? He must have something up his sleave.
Naniwa isn't top 5 protoss lol, especially at PvZ.
Uhh we have MC, Huk, Naniwa and recently Hero? Who else has been consistently on top as a solid Protoss player?
On May 02 2012 00:56 ZisforZerg wrote: IdrA is known for his ZvT beating players like Bomber, MVP, and MKP. On the other hand MorroW is a monster at TvZ, beating none other than the a ZvT specialist in Leenock in a Bo7. This should be a fantastic series, IdrA fighting!~
When did Idra beat MKP and when did Morrow beat leenock in a bo7? Leenock won 4-2 in the NASL showmatch.
On May 02 2012 00:56 ZisforZerg wrote: IdrA is known for his ZvT beating players like Bomber, MVP, and MKP. On the other hand MorroW is a monster at TvZ, beating none other than the a ZvT specialist in Leenock in a Bo7. This should be a fantastic series, IdrA fighting!~
Okay, we cannot be giving him credit for series that happened MONTHS ago. Fact of the matter is that Idra hasn't beaten anyone of note since Supernova at the IEM WC.
On May 02 2012 01:04 scatmango2 wrote: Lol. Why is Idra even relevant to the SC2 community. I feel so bad for EG. None of their players garner the right to be on a pro team.
He's relevant because he brings in a SHIT TON of viewers, he's kind of an icon for e-sports(At least he was), and he is one of the biggest personalities in the SC2 community. That, and he's able to compete with Koreans, which not a lot of foreigners can do.
As for the rest of EG, they put out great content, great results(some of the players at least) and they do more to promote e-Sports than any other team. That alone makes them worth more than almost all the other American SC2 teams added up together. I feel bad for you if that is your honest opinion and view of the, D:
On May 02 2012 00:56 ZisforZerg wrote: IdrA is known for his ZvT beating players like Bomber, MVP, and MKP. On the other hand MorroW is a monster at TvZ, beating none other than the a ZvT specialist in Leenock in a Bo7. This should be a fantastic series, IdrA fighting!~
IdrA never beat MarineKing and MorroW never beat Leenock. IdrA lost 1-2 and MorroW lost 2-4.
^^@scatmango^^ EG is a great company that provides alot for our community. The players could probably do for some bucklin' down, but I wouldnt say they are undeserving. I think they're just getting comfortable with their position in the grand scheme.
On May 01 2012 17:36 BlackPanther wrote: Something seems off about all of this. IdrA putting $1000 vs a top 5 protoss? He must have something up his sleave.
Naniwa isn't top 5 protoss lol, especially at PvZ.
Uhh we have MC, Huk, Naniwa and recently Hero? Who else has been consistently on top as a solid Protoss player?
We have Oz, Parting, Squirtle, Genius and i probably forgot some.
On May 02 2012 00:56 ZisforZerg wrote: IdrA is known for his ZvT beating players like Bomber, MVP, and MKP. On the other hand MorroW is a monster at TvZ, beating none other than the a ZvT specialist in Leenock in a Bo7. This should be a fantastic series, IdrA fighting!~
Okay, we cannot be giving him credit for series that happened MONTHS ago. Fact of the matter is that Idra hasn't beaten anyone of note since Supernova at the IEM WC.
MvP and Thorzain in ironsquid like a month ago. Min in something a few weeks ago. (EGMC maybe?)
Those three are all fairly skilled players who he has beaten recently.
On May 02 2012 00:56 ZisforZerg wrote: IdrA is known for his ZvT beating players like Bomber, MVP, and MKP. On the other hand MorroW is a monster at TvZ, beating none other than the a ZvT specialist in Leenock in a Bo7. This should be a fantastic series, IdrA fighting!~
Okay, we cannot be giving him credit for series that happened MONTHS ago. Fact of the matter is that Idra hasn't beaten anyone of note since Supernova at the IEM WC.
There is no point saying against the fact that his ZvT is good enough to consistently compete with Koreans though ;o His ZvT has always been stellar, and I doubt anyone but Stephano has a better LAN showing against terran... Then he gets totally butchered by Morrow, now after I say this
On May 02 2012 01:12 DayWalk3r wrote: why is everyone so fond of idra ???
Cus he's so sexy. It's always been like this, many hate him, many love him, and a lot of people doesn't give a shit. I like arguing, so I'm more vocal about it :D
On May 02 2012 00:56 ZisforZerg wrote: IdrA is known for his ZvT beating players like Bomber, MVP, and MKP. On the other hand MorroW is a monster at TvZ, beating none other than the a ZvT specialist in Leenock in a Bo7. This should be a fantastic series, IdrA fighting!~
Okay, we cannot be giving him credit for series that happened MONTHS ago. Fact of the matter is that Idra hasn't beaten anyone of note since Supernova at the IEM WC.
Just MVP, Thorzain. Also Min and Inori.
He also took macro games of Bomber and jjakji.
IdrA's ZvT is still quite good. It's the rest that's not so hot anymore...
I could see both players win this, but just the fact that they start on Shakuras and that they have Antiga with gold, i'm going to go with Morrow.
On May 01 2012 17:36 BlackPanther wrote: Something seems off about all of this. IdrA putting $1000 vs a top 5 protoss? He must have something up his sleave.
Naniwa isn't top 5 protoss lol, especially at PvZ.
Uhh we have MC, Huk, Naniwa and recently Hero? Who else has been consistently on top as a solid Protoss player?
First of all, not Huk. Not even close.
Parting, Squirtle, MC, Oz and fifth place would be between Naniwa, Hero and Genius.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
... Not even going to respond further with that
well he's right lol
idra in his current form is probably not top 30 foreigners...
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
... Not even going to respond further with that
well he's right lol
idra in his current form is probably not top 30 foreigners...
On May 01 2012 14:12 Naniwa wrote: ahh.. they said i couldnt pick idra T_T
Funny, you see naniwa crying on twitter for people talking shit. Then you go on TL and read his posts. Double standards is a wonderous thing.
OT: I'm considering buying their pass just for this match, but you never know what kind of IdrA shows up for these type of matches. If it's the one who really wants to win, this will be epic.
Edit: If I buy this season pass, do I get access to HD streams for the eventual LAN-finals?
You will have acces to the other upcoming 7 Sunday Showdowns, 1080p for every regular broadcast and the offline finals , and other extra's. Ps considiring the fact that you're swedish, I don't think you will regret it looking at our possible line-ups for upcoming weeks!
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
... Not even going to respond further with that
well he's right lol
idra in his current form is probably not top 30 foreigners...
he has really fallen off in the last months
I knew people were out of touch with reality but this is just becoming a joke. Come on, try to at least view this objectively. There's no way you can be serious with that claim.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
... Not even going to respond further with that
well he's right lol
idra in his current form is probably not top 30 foreigners...
he has really fallen off in the last months
I knew people were out of touch with reality but this is just becoming a joke. Come on, try to at least view this objectively. There's no way you can be serious with that claim.
Just for the record, IdrA is well below top 30 in ELO, I can't remember the last time he got a result, and hes definitely not top 30 foreigners on ladder ranking. What makes you think he IS top 30?
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
... Not even going to respond further with that
well he's right lol
idra in his current form is probably not top 30 foreigners...
he has really fallen off in the last months
I knew people were out of touch with reality but this is just becoming a joke. Come on, try to at least view this objectively. There's no way you can be serious with that claim.
Just for the record, IdrA is well below top 30 in ELO, I can't remember the last time he got a result, and hes definitely not top 30 foreigners on ladder ranking. What makes you think he IS top 30?
Oh I dunno, the part where he competes with Koreans? Name 30 other foregeigners that can take a series off of Jiakji, Bomber and players like that. oh that's right, you can't -.- Look at the TLPD, LiveZerg and Titan are present in the top5. That does not make them even remotely close to the actualy top5 foreigners
On May 02 2012 02:05 Chunhyang wrote: I hope Idra gets swept again.
He needs to change something in the way he plays his game, 'coz whatever it is right now, Idrastyle ain't working out for him.
Have you seen Idra's baneling style on his stream recently? Looks kinda promising, but of course, that's vs NA GMs He's trying out new shit in both ZvZ and ZvP it seems, so maybe we'll see something new soon
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
... Not even going to respond further with that
well he's right lol
idra in his current form is probably not top 30 foreigners...
i am pretty sure that most of these players are better than idra. the follwing ten players however are pretty debatable. (i myself do not think that all of them are better than idra)
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
... Not even going to respond further with that
well he's right lol
idra in his current form is probably not top 30 foreigners...
he has really fallen off in the last months
Easy way to settle this. Name 30 that are better.
List of 30 international players that are better than Idra right now, could probably go to 40-50 + Show Spoiler +
On May 02 2012 02:14 Aocowns wrote: Hahahhaha, these lists are funny
If you find peoples' haughtiness funny I guess. I actually just think half the people posting are pathetic.
Woah, settle down junior. While I do think Idra is an excellent player I don't think it is out of the question to place him outside the top 30. This might be the worst point in his career.
People do often forget that he has insanely good TvZ, debatably good ZvZ, and JYP-esq
Doesn't come close to mid last year. At that time he lost to players like Socke, DDE and Minigun. Now he loses to Huk, Jiakji and Hero. See the difference?
On May 02 2012 02:14 Aocowns wrote: Hahahhaha, these lists are funny
If you find peoples' haughtiness funny I guess. I actually just think half the people posting are pathetic.
Woah, settle down junior. While I do think Idra is an excellent player I don't think it is out of the question to place him outside the top 30. This might be the worst point in his career.
People do often forget that he has insanely good TvZ, debatably good ZvZ, and JYP-esque weakness to Protoss - but it's hard to say how good he is in any of these match ups right now because simply put he isn't getting far enough in tournaments to show us. People know how to defeat IdrA. Go for cheese. Go for early aggression. Pressure him in any way. Do that enough and Idra starts to defeat himself.
Looking at some of the lists that people made I would not place Xigua, bischu, Moonglade and a few others above IdrA (some of the players listed I don't know enough about to say either way). But IdrA is definately not top 10 and I think he would would comfortably sit in the top twenty range (on a good day). But when IdrA is defeating himself, I would be worried that actionJesuz would be able to defeat IdrA in a Macro game. Edit: apparantly I posted this comment already halfway through. Sorry. Will delete the other one.
On May 02 2012 02:14 Aocowns wrote: Hahahhaha, these lists are funny
If you find peoples' haughtiness funny I guess. I actually just think half the people posting are pathetic.
Woah, settle down junior. While I do think Idra is an excellent player I don't think it is out of the question to place him outside the top 30. This might be the worst point in his career.
People do often forget that he has insanely good TvZ, debatably good ZvZ, and JYP-esque weakness to Protoss - but it's hard to say how good he is in any of these match ups right now because simply put he isn't getting far enough in tournaments to show us. People know how to defeat IdrA. Go for cheese. Go for early aggression. Pressure him in any way. Do that enough and Idra starts to defeat himself.
Looking at some of the lists that people made I would not place Xigua, bischu, Moonglade and a few others above IdrA (some of the players listed I don't know enough about to say either way). But IdrA is definately not top 10 and I think he would would comfortably sit in the top twenty range (on a good day). But when IdrA is defeating himself, I would be worried that actionJesuz would be able to defeat IdrA in a Macro game. Edit: apparantly I posted this comment already halfway through. Sorry. Will delete the other one.
I don't care how much you hate Idra, but saying actionjesuz is even close to Idra is just bullshit. Bad day or not, Idra could wipe his ass with a player like actionjezuz if he went macro
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
... Not even going to respond further with that
You can name 10 players stronger in play than idra pretty easily in terms of play.
Thorzain, Stephano, Sen, Naniwa, Titan, Mana, Ret, Sheth, HuK, Nerchio, Kas, DIMAGA, Sjow, Happy, White-Ra, Illusion
On May 02 2012 00:56 ZisforZerg wrote: IdrA is known for his ZvT beating players like Bomber, MVP, and MKP. On the other hand MorroW is a monster at TvZ, beating none other than the a ZvT specialist in Leenock in a Bo7. This should be a fantastic series, IdrA fighting!~
Okay, we cannot be giving him credit for series that happened MONTHS ago. Fact of the matter is that Idra hasn't beaten anyone of note since Supernova at the IEM WC.
MvP and Thorzain in ironsquid like a month ago. Min in something a few weeks ago. (EGMC maybe?)
Those three are all fairly skilled players who he has beaten recently.
Online cross server lag. I dont know how many times I heard the TL community say online means nothing
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
... Not even going to respond further with that
You can name 10 players stronger in play than idra pretty easily in terms of play.
Thorzain, Stephano, Sen, Naniwa, Titan, Mana, Ret, Sheth, HuK, Nerchio, Kas, DIMAGA, Sjow, Happy, White-Ra, Illusion
10? Possibly, but not easily. 30? No.
On that list of yours I disagree with Titan, Sheth, Dimaga, Sjow, Happy and WhiteRa. Not sure about Mana(Overall I say Idra, but 1v1 Mana maybe). Not sure about Sen, Ret or Kas either. Probably Ret, but have we even seen LAN play from Sen recently?
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
... Not even going to respond further with that
well he's right lol
idra in his current form is probably not top 30 foreigners...
he has really fallen off in the last months
Easy way to settle this. Name 30 that are better.
List of 30 international players that are better than Idra right now, could probably go to 40-50 + Show Spoiler +
On May 02 2012 02:14 Aocowns wrote: Hahahhaha, these lists are funny
If you find peoples' haughtiness funny I guess. I actually just think half the people posting are pathetic.
Woah, settle down junior. While I do think Idra is an excellent player I don't think it is out of the question to place him outside the top 30. This might be the worst point in his career.
People do often forget that he has insanely good TvZ, debatably good ZvZ, and JYP-esque weakness to Protoss - but it's hard to say how good he is in any of these match ups right now because simply put he isn't getting far enough in tournaments to show us. People know how to defeat IdrA. Go for cheese. Go for early aggression. Pressure him in any way. Do that enough and Idra starts to defeat himself.
Looking at some of the lists that people made I would not place Xigua, bischu, Moonglade and a few others above IdrA (some of the players listed I don't know enough about to say either way). But IdrA is definately not top 10 and I think he would would comfortably sit in the top twenty range (on a good day). But when IdrA is defeating himself, I would be worried that actionJesuz would be able to defeat IdrA in a Macro game. Edit: apparantly I posted this comment already halfway through. Sorry. Will delete the other one.
I don't care how much you hate Idra, but saying actionjesuz is even close to Idra is just bullshit. Bad day or not, Idra could wipe his ass with a player like actionjezuz if he went macro
Nah, I was just making a point. Of course actionJesuz sucks, I was just saying that when IdrA tilts I'm worried that anyone could defeat him. And I don't hate IdrA, I just don't think he is very good right now. That being said, I think he's equal in terms of skill to MorroW.
Edit: can someone remind me why Titan is really good? I saw someone list him in the top 3 and besides a few great tournament results I didn't think he could ever rank up that highly.
On May 01 2012 19:23 niteReloaded wrote: I don't rate Morrow too highly, coz I didn't see any real proof of quality lately, but based on how terribad Idra is, I think the Swede takes this... btw Idra should either quit progaming, or hire a shrink, he's stuck in his "I should be winning because I do stuff that are 1% +EV, but since every possible circumstance is agianst me, I lose, and am frustrated - therefore ragequit to protest against those painful circumstances" mindset for too long, while for example Stephano rapes even Asian asses and goes to the bank over and over.
Hahahahah, quit progaming when he is well etablished in top10 foreigners? That's just stupid ;o You don't know Idra, and you are still able to evaluate how his mind works? Can you teach me how to do that to people I don't know?
What are you talking about? Idra is probobly not even top 30.
... Not even going to respond further with that
You can name 10 players stronger in play than idra pretty easily in terms of play.
Thorzain, Stephano, Sen, Naniwa, Titan, Mana, Ret, Sheth, HuK, Nerchio, Kas, DIMAGA, Sjow, Happy, White-Ra, Illusion
10? Possibly, but not easily. 30? No.
On that list of yours I disagree with Titan, Sheth, Dimaga, Sjow, Happy and WhiteRa. Not sure about Mana(Overall I say Idra, but 1v1 Mana maybe). Not sure about Sen, Ret or Kas either. Probably Ret, but have we even seen LAN play from Sen recently?
Sure, these are just ones that came to mind. TLO and Sheth both look a little stronger. I forgot snute. At least Happy wins his CW games, he looks amazing occasionally. Idra barely beat cruncher. I say Mana for sure.
However, what has idra done lately either? Yeah, sure, these players aren't showing huge results. But neither is he.
On May 02 2012 02:04 Aocowns wrote: Oh I dunno, the part where he competes with Koreans? Name 30 other foregeigners that can take a series off of Jiakji, Bomber and players like that. oh that's right, you can't -.- Look at the TLPD, LiveZerg and Titan are present in the top5. That does not make them even remotely close to the actualy top5 foreigners
A series? I'm not surprised your memory is faulty; IdrA's performance has probably caused some real trauma to his fans.
He took a single game in a Bo3 against Jiakji and Bomber at IPL4. He lost 0-2 to MMA and GhostKing. If you think him taking a single game makes him competitive (making him "top 5"), then we can argue that CrunCher is competitive with IdrA (putting him out of the "top 50"). So winning single games don't give you the whole picture.
Let's look at IdrA's 2012 results:
GSL Code S 1-2 Lucky 0-2 Nestea
ESV TV 0-4 TaeJa
NASL Team League 1-4 Leenock, Hero, Thorzain, Axslav, SaSe
GSL Code A 0-2 Avenge
NASL Sunday Showdown 0-4 Alive
Iron Squid 0-2 MC 0-2 Symbol 2-0 MVP note: MVP didn't have use of his wrists for this series 2-1 Thorzain
IEM Season 6 0-2 ReaL 0-2 Feast 0-2 Kas 1-2 DarkForce 2-1 SuperNova
NASL Season 3 2-1 CrunCher 0-2 Alicia
EG Master's cup 0-2 ClouD 1-2 DRG 2-1 Min 2-1 Domorin 0-2 HerO
I'm probably missing some results, but he basically takes only the occasional game off tier-1 players (anyone who would consistently be Code B or higher). It's usually 0-2. And against tier-2 players (people who don't have any real wins, but make occasional small runs in foreign tournaments, etc.) IdrA is 50/50. He's also dropped some to tier-3 players ("progamers" who fill up tournament slots but never get past the first or second round). That makes him middle / high middle Tier 2.
Is he top 15? top 30? It doesn't really matter. In the foreign scene only about 5 people are contenders, and IdrA isn't one of them. The next ~20 people are part of the scene, but haven't put up any results in some time. Because of that, it's impossible to rank them precisely. And that's where IdrA is.
I really, really, really hope IdrA comes out of his rut and gets back to his former place in the top 5. He's the only U.S. player that has put up good results historically. But all I see is him doing what's comfortable--playing NR20 min ok? games--and quitting when things are uncomfortable (like when he gets cannon rushed on ladder). If he quits and he thinks "ok, I should have scouted at X location at Y min, I wasn't prepared because of Z factors" that's fine. Maybe he is, I can't read his mind. But based on what I've seen he quits and blames everything except himself. And so IdrA's decision-making and scouting is in 2011 while all the contenders' skills are in 2012.
Ironically, his own fanboys contribute to his 2012 performance. They enable his quitting atittude by, as an example, justifying his pissed off 2x 6-pool against aLive, saying that aLive cheesed first by going mass hellions or whatever (see thread here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=314767). But every Korean terran does the same thing once in a while, precisely because it's medium risk and high reward. Stephano got demolished by something similar against Polt, learned from it, and when someone tried it again at IPL4 he scouted it and held it off to win the game. And DRG or Leenock or Nestea would scout it and hold it off most of the time too. So would a lot of Code A/B level zergs. IdrA hasn't learned how to do this.
Take a look at Polt's response to his opponent here http://www.twitch.tv/tslpolt/b/316683050?t=7m30s and ask yourself where IdrA is. Obviously you can't compare Terran and Zerg exactly, but IdrA is at least two steps behind. 1) He would not have scouted it in the first place because he doesn't ever do the zerg equivalent of timing pushes to force the opponent to show their hand. 2) Polt's decision after seeing the 7 sentries was to go back, bunker up, wall up, switch to maruders, pull SCVs and it resulted in him barely holding. IdrA's decision-making under stress is not at that level.
I typed a lot, but it's really only in hopes that IdrA gets better. If fanboys continue to say "oh he's still top 5 and he's just in a slump" it makes things worse, because when you watch his games, it's clear that it's not just bad luck or slip ups in micro. IdrA has to move forward. It's not 2011 where every game was one of three build orders. Every other game now features an odd timing push where you scout or you die.
I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote: I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself.
But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something.
On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote: I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself.
But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something.
On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote: I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself.
But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something.
He said that about 1 game....?
Just read my post. It presents the entire argument. If you don't feel like it that's cool, but then there's no real point in discussing things.
On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote: I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself.
But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something.
He said that about 1 game....?
Just read my post. It presents the entire argument. If you don't feel like it that's cool, but then there's no real point in discussing things.
I think you're wrong. I doubt he thinks like that. He forces enemy hands with early pushes several times in ZvT. There is no reliable way to do this in ZvP, but that's not even his problem in ZvP. I dunno what to say besides I highly doubt Idra or his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters. I think I heard him mention he was blind countered in one game against GhotKing, what's the problem about that?
EDIT: I'm just being too lazy to do more than skim your entire post right now, but can you TL;DR it or something? To me it seems you're just repeating the mindset debate, which isn't really a debate anymore(As I said, just skimmed it)
On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote: I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself.
But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something.
He said that about 1 game....?
Just read my post. It presents the entire argument. If you don't feel like it that's cool, but then there's no real point in discussing things.
He's a blind fanboy dude. It's fine. He'll never listen or change his mind.
On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote: I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself.
But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something.
He said that about 1 game....?
Just read my post. It presents the entire argument. If you don't feel like it that's cool, but then there's no real point in discussing things.
He's a blind fanboy dude. It's fine. He'll never listen or change his mind.
On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote: I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself.
But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something.
He said that about 1 game....?
Just read my post. It presents the entire argument. If you don't feel like it that's cool, but then there's no real point in discussing things.
He's a blind fanboy dude. It's fine. He'll never listen or change his mind.
Fuck you too?
You essentially told him "I'm too lazy to read your post but you're wrong Idra so good" edit: use of literally.
On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote: I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
If you don't feel like reading my post, that's fine, but it addresses this exact attitude. Somehow every win against IdrA is a blind counter or a lucky timing push. It's an attitude that IdrA has himself.
But at some point you should wonder, if your opponents blind counter you over and over and over again, maybe you're the one that's not seeing something.
He said that about 1 game....?
Just read my post. It presents the entire argument. If you don't feel like it that's cool, but then there's no real point in discussing things.
He's a blind fanboy dude. It's fine. He'll never listen or change his mind.
Fuck you too?
You essentially told him "I'm too lazy to read your post but you're wrong Idra so good" edit: use of literally.
On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote: EDIT: I'm just being too lazy to do more than skim your entire post right now, but can you TL;DR it or something? To me it seems you're just repeating the mindset debate, which isn't really a debate anymore(As I said, just skimmed it)
You're spending countless posts on Idra, but refuse to read an excellent summary about his current state and problems?
I don't see why even a very enthusiastic fan like you wouldn't do that, all your "counter" arguments and relativizations don't disprove his statements at all. Also, reducing Idra's issues to this "mindset" debate isn't what he says as well.
Essentially, right now Idra is an average foreigner, he's not top-tier (i.e. top 5 or near) and he has only an average winrate against other foreigners. Yes, occasionally he can beat top foreigners and sometimes even take a match of Koreans, but that's what any full-time tier 2 pro is capable of in SC2. Also, there is not "one" single issue Idra has to overcome (like so many posts suggest), he's to step up his entire play in order to become a (foreigner) tournament favorite again.
However, again, this series against Morrow should be great because of exactly these reasons.
On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote: I think you're wrong. I doubt he thinks like that. He forces enemy hands with early pushes several times in ZvT. There is no reliable way to do this in ZvP, but that's not even his problem in ZvP. I dunno what to say besides I highly doubt Idra or his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters. I think I heard him mention he was blind countered in one game against GhotKing, what's the problem about that?
Let's break this down into individual steps:
Fact: In 2012 IdrA has lost to almost every. single. timing push by anyone who's a contender. He loses often to timing pushes by people who aren't even close to contenders.
Fact: Some of those games are micro slip-ups, but many of those are simply "oh crap there's 20 hellions that I didn't scout and I've only made zerglings" games.
Please review the VODs if you disagree with those two facts.
Based on that, there's only two possibilities: 1) IdrA is unable to learn to scout / react. 2) IdrA is unwilling to learn to scout / react.
If you think he has a good attitude and he's trying his best, then fine. If that's the case, then it's possible IdrA reached his skill or intelligence max late 2011 and will never be a contender.
Personally, I think it's the second case. What's my evidence? Obviously I'm not Professor Xavier and can't read minds (I even said that in my post) so anyone can disagree all day long and nobody can be 100% sure. But the evidence I gave was 1) watching ladder games and him quitting when it gets out of his comfort zone, 2) 2x rage-pooling after aLive, and 3) I've only watched IdrA comment on 4-5 pro games this year. If he says he was blind countered in 2 of them, that's a problem.
But more to the point, when have you EVER seen e.g. a coach of a professional NBA team say their opponent got lucky 3s, or some football coach saying their opponent got a lucky bounce? It's ALWAYS "we should have closed out more" or things like that. Because the moment you blame your opponent for going mass hellions blind, you stop thinking about how to scout better for the NEXT time someone goes mass hellions.
On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote: I highly doubt [...] his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters.
Please do take a couple minutes to really take things I said under consideration. I feel like you're just saying I'm wrong because that's your gut reaction. Because if you read the aLive thread, it's 100% fact that a lot of IdrA fans blame his losses on luck or blind counters. I mean, the posts are right there!
On May 02 2012 03:19 Aocowns wrote: I'm not going to bother reading your entire post, but I am however going to say: Did you see the games vs Jiakji and Bomber? Idra had the series against Bomber 2-0, but then Bomber had hellions on the right place at the right time when Idra was maynarding. In the last game he did a marauder hellion all in I think, so take what you will from that as long as you see the fact that Idra outplayed Bomber in macro games again. Same against Jiakji, he took a great macro game in the first one, the lost the games early on later because Jiakji did these early attacks and killed his 3rd. MMA is MMA and MMA does not lose vs foreign zergs. We didn't see the GhostKing games, but I think Idra said something about him blindly hard countering Idra or something in one of the games(Don't quote me on this though)
"I'm not going to read your thoughtful post because it's long. However, I'm going to share an anecdote about this one time when Idra almost beat a couple of Koreans if it hadn't been because, you know, they attacked."
Also, won't be able to watch the NASL showmatch, but I'll be rooting for Morrow. It has the potential of being a good and close series though.
This extra content in form of showmatches is a great idea. It'll bring matches a lot of people want to see and will be willing to pay for, while still having the main content free. Great move by NASL.
On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote: I think you're wrong. I doubt he thinks like that. He forces enemy hands with early pushes several times in ZvT. There is no reliable way to do this in ZvP, but that's not even his problem in ZvP. I dunno what to say besides I highly doubt Idra or his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters. I think I heard him mention he was blind countered in one game against GhotKing, what's the problem about that?
Let's break this down into individual steps:
Fact: In 2012 IdrA has lost to almost every. single. timing push by anyone who's a contender. He loses often to timing pushes by people who aren't even close to contenders.
Fact: Some of those games are micro slip-ups, but many of those are simply "oh crap there's 20 hellions that I didn't scout and I've only made zerglings" games.
Please review the VODs if you disagree with those two facts.
Based on that, there's only two possibilities: 1) IdrA is unable to learn to scout / react. 2) IdrA is unwilling to learn to scout / react.
If you think he has a good attitude and he's trying his best, then fine. If that's the case, then it's possible IdrA reached his skill or intelligence max late 2011 and will never be a contender.
Personally, I think it's the second case. What's my evidence? Obviously I'm not Professor Xavier and can't read minds (I even said that in my post) so anyone can disagree all day long and nobody can be 100% sure. But the evidence I gave was 1) watching ladder games and him quitting when it gets out of his comfort zone, 2) 2x rage-pooling after aLive, and 3) I've only watched IdrA comment on 4-5 pro games this year. If he says he was blind countered in 2 of them, that's a problem.
But more to the point, when have you EVER seen e.g. a coach of a professional NBA team say their opponent got lucky 3s, or some football coach saying their opponent got a lucky bounce? It's ALWAYS "we should have closed out more" or things like that. Because the moment you blame your opponent for going mass hellions blind, you stop thinking about how to scout better for the NEXT time someone goes mass hellions.
On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote: I highly doubt [...] his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters.
Please do take a couple minutes to really take things I said under consideration. I feel like you're just saying I'm wrong because that's your gut reaction. Because if you read the aLive thread, it's 100% fact that a lot of IdrA fans blame his losses on luck or blind counters. I mean, the posts are right there!
o.o I think you should take some of your own advice... hmmm lets look at some more recent matches such as the most recent page of TLPD (/lazy)... in all matches Losses: Alicia, Hero, Jjaki, Byun, MMA, Bomber, Polt, JYP, DRG, Wins: Domorin, Cruncher, Min, MVP (whose wrsts are exploding and online granted but MVP still isnt a slacker), Inori, Jinro, Thorzain
Ok. Which guy who idra lost to in the last month and half isn't a contender? Alicia probs least strong, but damn scary still... So he really lost vs. EVERY SINGLE TIMING PUSH, or is that hyperbole?
Granted he had a HORRIBLE losing stream earlier this year, you should really watch his games. like his stream which is on now and will be for several more hours! He's moved from muta-ling to infestor-ling vs terran, his vP has looked better and better and if he gets a few more weeks to smooth things out he can win, i mean he often wins games and then throws it, but thats a lot better than getting roflstomped. he's experimenting with banelings vP...
and how much of IdrA's ladder games do you actually watch? i'm questioning that a little, not because I think you are lying or mis-citing facts, but rather perhaps you have a different view of the streams I watch as often as they are on and watch the vods of when they are not... and listen to more interviews because when he's actually seriously discussing the games, he knows why he lost... saying "fuckign protoss" doesn't mean he doesn't know that scouting more is important
and the shit he pulls with showmatches is explainable, perhaps not defendable, but has reasoning, however maddening it is. that should be changed, agreed, but its not a point that correlates with if he is trying to improve
honestly, the tl;dr is take the middle road... I agree that IdrA hasn't been playing his best, and isn't the best there is. However when you go out and say that he loses to every single timing push and in short he has not improved and does not want to improve, all the while citing VODs and the stream which you may or may not have actually watched (or have only watched the infamous ones and gotten a skewed perspective), I think that you are far against IdrA as "fanboys" are rabid for him
On May 02 2012 01:04 scatmango2 wrote: Lol. Why is Idra even relevant to the SC2 community. I feel so bad for EG. None of their players garner the right to be on a pro team.
puma isnt terrible. and IdrA is relevant because he has a shit ton of fans who will support him on his long journey to bronze league,
On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote: I think you're wrong. I doubt he thinks like that. He forces enemy hands with early pushes several times in ZvT. There is no reliable way to do this in ZvP, but that's not even his problem in ZvP. I dunno what to say besides I highly doubt Idra or his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters. I think I heard him mention he was blind countered in one game against GhotKing, what's the problem about that?
Let's break this down into individual steps:
Fact: In 2012 IdrA has lost to almost every. single. timing push by anyone who's a contender. He loses often to timing pushes by people who aren't even close to contenders.
Fact: Some of those games are micro slip-ups, but many of those are simply "oh crap there's 20 hellions that I didn't scout and I've only made zerglings" games.
Please review the VODs if you disagree with those two facts.
Based on that, there's only two possibilities: 1) IdrA is unable to learn to scout / react. 2) IdrA is unwilling to learn to scout / react.
If you think he has a good attitude and he's trying his best, then fine. If that's the case, then it's possible IdrA reached his skill or intelligence max late 2011 and will never be a contender.
Personally, I think it's the second case. What's my evidence? Obviously I'm not Professor Xavier and can't read minds (I even said that in my post) so anyone can disagree all day long and nobody can be 100% sure. But the evidence I gave was 1) watching ladder games and him quitting when it gets out of his comfort zone, 2) 2x rage-pooling after aLive, and 3) I've only watched IdrA comment on 4-5 pro games this year. If he says he was blind countered in 2 of them, that's a problem.
But more to the point, when have you EVER seen e.g. a coach of a professional NBA team say their opponent got lucky 3s, or some football coach saying their opponent got a lucky bounce? It's ALWAYS "we should have closed out more" or things like that. Because the moment you blame your opponent for going mass hellions blind, you stop thinking about how to scout better for the NEXT time someone goes mass hellions.
On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote: I highly doubt [...] his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters.
Please do take a couple minutes to really take things I said under consideration. I feel like you're just saying I'm wrong because that's your gut reaction. Because if you read the aLive thread, it's 100% fact that a lot of IdrA fans blame his losses on luck or blind counters. I mean, the posts are right there!
o.o I think you should take some of your own advice... hmmm lets look at some more recent matches such as the most recent page of TLPD (/lazy)... in all matches Losses: Alicia, Hero, Jjaki, Byun, MMA, Bomber, Polt, JYP, DRG, Wins: Domorin, Cruncher, Min, MVP (whose wrsts are exploding and online granted but MVP still isnt a slacker), Inori, Jinro, Thorzain
Ok. Which guy who idra lost to in the last month and half isn't a contender? Alicia probs least strong, but damn scary still... So he really lost vs. EVERY SINGLE TIMING PUSH, or is that hyperbole?
Granted he had a HORRIBLE losing stream earlier this year, you should really watch his games. like his stream which is on now and will be for several more hours! He's moved from muta-ling to infestor-ling vs terran, his vP has looked better and better and if he gets a few more weeks to smooth things out he can win, i mean he often wins games and then throws it, but thats a lot better than getting roflstomped. he's experimenting with banelings vP...
and how much of IdrA's ladder games do you actually watch? i'm questioning that a little, not because I think you are lying or mis-citing facts, but rather perhaps you have a different view of the streams I watch as often as they are on and watch the vods of when they are not... and listen to more interviews because when he's actually seriously discussing the games, he knows why he lost... saying "fuckign protoss" doesn't mean he doesn't know that scouting more is important
and the shit he pulls with showmatches is explainable, perhaps not defendable, but has reasoning, however maddening it is. that should be changed, agreed, but its not a point that correlates with if he is trying to improve
honestly, the tl;dr is take the middle road... I agree that IdrA hasn't been playing his best, and isn't the best there is. However when you go out and say that he loses to every single timing push and in short he has not improved and does not want to improve, all the while citing VODs and the stream which you may or may not have actually watched (or have only watched the infamous ones and gotten a skewed perspective), I think that you are far against IdrA as "fanboys" are rabid for him
Thanks for the discussion. I fully admit that I haven't been following IdrA as closely in the past 2-3 weeks, which is why my argument was couched in 2012 as a whole. I was thinking of lost games versus non-contenders, not lost series; it bothers me that his wins are mostly 2-1 (including against e.g. CrunCher and Domorin) while his losses are mostly 0-2 (which is shown in my original point). However, you are correct that it's a relatively minor point and not a strong argument.
For the games that I have watched, you and I have seem to have two pretty different impressions. Yes he's sort of switched to infestor ling instead of muta ling, but that hasn't really addressed the concerns. IdrA has always had excellent macro and his strict build order timings are probably better than Stephano's (whose time between injects is decent, but a longer than you would expect for a player of his level), but fundamentally Zerg is a reactive race. There's several games I watched this month where IdrA seems to have something in mind that e.g. doesn't consist of banelings, and then fails to produce them due to lack of scouting or a lack of reaction to an opponent going for an early timing.
Please note that when I say lack of scouting, I don't mean he didn't send a drone out and doesn't note what a watchtower is. Any tier 1 or 2 player can do that relatively consistently. What I mean is scouting at the top level of play, which includes deducing things that aren't seen. When watching the top tier players stream, I frequently wonder "why are they doing that?"--only to find out that they were absolutely right. When watching IdrA stream, my thought process is "oh that's reasonable"--only to get surprised when IdrA is surprised. IdrA makes a lot of assumptions which would be reasonable against a NA GM player, but which don't pan out when facing a tier 1 player. The tier 1 knows what they've revealed and the common assumptions that go along with that, and then adds a twist.
That's the difference in scouting. And yes, I'm sure when IdrA watches it later he can deduce the chain of logic. But that's different from real-time decision-making, and Korean players take advantage of it seemingly every time. If I were coaching IdrA (and I'm not remotely qualified to, but this is a hypothetical), I think it might be a good idea for him to watch a lot of first-person views of people playing against e.g. MKP or aLive or someone who's good at early aggression. Pause it every once in a while and ask him what he thinks the other player is doing. Have him write it down, and then figure out if there's a disparity, and if so, how that came about.
Those are my thoughts. But if you've been watching his streams more carefully in the past 2-3 weeks, then I'll take your word for his improvement and look forward to better results soon!
On May 02 2012 01:04 scatmango2 wrote: Lol. Why is Idra even relevant to the SC2 community. I feel so bad for EG. None of their players garner the right to be on a pro team.
Are you drunk?
Puma's earnt the 8th most money of anyone in the entire business and has won 3 major LAN's and come 2nd at two others and 3rd at another two. Puma is a more successful player than any foreign player.
Huk took 3rd at the Winter Arena, 4th at the Winter Championships, which is better than most non Koreans have ever achieved in their entire career. Not to mention he won several major lan's last year.
JYP was Code S in GSL S1 and has had some decent finishes for EG.
On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote: I think you're wrong. I doubt he thinks like that. He forces enemy hands with early pushes several times in ZvT. There is no reliable way to do this in ZvP, but that's not even his problem in ZvP. I dunno what to say besides I highly doubt Idra or his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters. I think I heard him mention he was blind countered in one game against GhotKing, what's the problem about that?
Let's break this down into individual steps:
Fact: In 2012 IdrA has lost to almost every. single. timing push by anyone who's a contender. He loses often to timing pushes by people who aren't even close to contenders.
Fact: Some of those games are micro slip-ups, but many of those are simply "oh crap there's 20 hellions that I didn't scout and I've only made zerglings" games.
Please review the VODs if you disagree with those two facts.
Based on that, there's only two possibilities: 1) IdrA is unable to learn to scout / react. 2) IdrA is unwilling to learn to scout / react.
If you think he has a good attitude and he's trying his best, then fine. If that's the case, then it's possible IdrA reached his skill or intelligence max late 2011 and will never be a contender.
Personally, I think it's the second case. What's my evidence? Obviously I'm not Professor Xavier and can't read minds (I even said that in my post) so anyone can disagree all day long and nobody can be 100% sure. But the evidence I gave was 1) watching ladder games and him quitting when it gets out of his comfort zone, 2) 2x rage-pooling after aLive, and 3) I've only watched IdrA comment on 4-5 pro games this year. If he says he was blind countered in 2 of them, that's a problem.
But more to the point, when have you EVER seen e.g. a coach of a professional NBA team say their opponent got lucky 3s, or some football coach saying their opponent got a lucky bounce? It's ALWAYS "we should have closed out more" or things like that. Because the moment you blame your opponent for going mass hellions blind, you stop thinking about how to scout better for the NEXT time someone goes mass hellions.
On May 02 2012 03:47 Aocowns wrote: I highly doubt [...] his fans blame every loss on luck or blind counters.
Please do take a couple minutes to really take things I said under consideration. I feel like you're just saying I'm wrong because that's your gut reaction. Because if you read the aLive thread, it's 100% fact that a lot of IdrA fans blame his losses on luck or blind counters. I mean, the posts are right there!
o.o I think you should take some of your own advice... hmmm lets look at some more recent matches such as the most recent page of TLPD (/lazy)... in all matches Losses: Alicia, Hero, Jjaki, Byun, MMA, Bomber, Polt, JYP, DRG, Wins: Domorin, Cruncher, Min, MVP (whose wrsts are exploding and online granted but MVP still isnt a slacker), Inori, Jinro, Thorzain
Ok. Which guy who idra lost to in the last month and half isn't a contender? Alicia probs least strong, but damn scary still... So he really lost vs. EVERY SINGLE TIMING PUSH, or is that hyperbole?
Granted he had a HORRIBLE losing stream earlier this year, you should really watch his games. like his stream which is on now and will be for several more hours! He's moved from muta-ling to infestor-ling vs terran, his vP has looked better and better and if he gets a few more weeks to smooth things out he can win, i mean he often wins games and then throws it, but thats a lot better than getting roflstomped. he's experimenting with banelings vP...
and how much of IdrA's ladder games do you actually watch? i'm questioning that a little, not because I think you are lying or mis-citing facts, but rather perhaps you have a different view of the streams I watch as often as they are on and watch the vods of when they are not... and listen to more interviews because when he's actually seriously discussing the games, he knows why he lost... saying "fuckign protoss" doesn't mean he doesn't know that scouting more is important
and the shit he pulls with showmatches is explainable, perhaps not defendable, but has reasoning, however maddening it is. that should be changed, agreed, but its not a point that correlates with if he is trying to improve
honestly, the tl;dr is take the middle road... I agree that IdrA hasn't been playing his best, and isn't the best there is. However when you go out and say that he loses to every single timing push and in short he has not improved and does not want to improve, all the while citing VODs and the stream which you may or may not have actually watched (or have only watched the infamous ones and gotten a skewed perspective), I think that you are far against IdrA as "fanboys" are rabid for him
Thanks for the discussion. I fully admit that I haven't been following IdrA as closely in the past 2-3 weeks, which is why my argument was couched in 2012 as a whole. I was thinking of lost games versus non-contenders, not lost series; it bothers me that his wins are mostly 2-1 (including against e.g. CrunCher and Domorin) while his losses are mostly 0-2 (which is shown in my original point). However, you are correct that it's a relatively minor point and not a strong argument.
For the games that I have watched, you and I have seem to have two pretty different impressions. Yes he's sort of switched to infestor ling instead of muta ling, but that hasn't really addressed the concerns. IdrA has always had excellent macro and his strict build order timings are probably better than Stephano's (whose time between injects is decent, but a longer than you would expect for a player of his level), but fundamentally Zerg is a reactive race. There's several games I watched this month where IdrA seems to have something in mind that e.g. doesn't consist of banelings, and then fails to produce them due to lack of scouting or a lack of reaction to an opponent going for an early timing.
Please note that when I say lack of scouting, I don't mean he didn't send a drone out and doesn't note what a watchtower is. Any tier 1 or 2 player can do that relatively consistently. What I mean is scouting at the top level of play, which includes deducing things that aren't seen. When watching the top tier players stream, I frequently wonder "why are they doing that?"--only to find out that they were absolutely right. When watching IdrA stream, my thought process is "oh that's reasonable"--only to get surprised when IdrA is surprised. IdrA makes a lot of assumptions which would be reasonable against a NA GM player, but which don't pan out when facing a tier 1 player. The tier 1 knows what they've revealed and the common assumptions that go along with that, and then adds a twist.
That's the difference in scouting. And yes, I'm sure when IdrA watches it later he can deduce the chain of logic. But that's different from real-time decision-making, and Korean players take advantage of it seemingly every time. If I were coaching IdrA (and I'm not remotely qualified to, but this is a hypothetical), I think it might be a good idea for him to watch a lot of first-person views of people playing against e.g. MKP or aLive or someone who's good at early aggression. Pause it every once in a while and ask him what he thinks the other player is doing. Have him write it down, and then figure out if there's a disparity, and if so, how that came about.
Those are my thoughts. But if you've been watching his streams more carefully in the past 2-3 weeks, then I'll take your word for his improvement and look forward to better results soon!
I'm not part of this conversation, but I do hope Idra breaks out of the funk. I'm not a fan, but everyone knows that he is capable of much more, and it is sad that he is not able to perform to his full ability.
Naniwa, it's me....one of the guys from Fire & Ice in Providence last year.... Remember me? Actually, remember my friend you flipped off for no god damn good reason? You really have no idea how lucky you are to have been with a friend with decency & respect a friendly kind hearted fan.......... I look forward to watching you help fund our dying American economy you unappreciative mook
On May 02 2012 05:05 mTwTT1 wrote: idra was forced into burning 1k just to save his image, wp by naniwa
NASL, I know you don't want to have IdrA twice in a show match, but damn it, you have to know how big this IdrA vs. Naniwa grudge match is going to be. Jump on it!
Man... all the trashtalk.. I thought the game must have happened already. You guys really have so much energy to burn that you sit here and flame someone who is still a very solid player? He is likely to get back on his feet too. He has sucked so far this year as far as his results go and I'm sure he would admit it but some of the things people say are either trolly or crazy.
On May 03 2012 18:55 mrtomjones wrote: Man... all the trashtalk.. I thought the game must have happened already. You guys really have so much energy to burn that you sit here and flame someone who is still a very solid player? He is likely to get back on his feet too. He has sucked so far this year as far as his results go and I'm sure he would admit it but some of the things people say are either trolly or crazy.
Yeah man, Idra doesn't deserve all the hate, he is so mature and polite himself.
On May 03 2012 18:55 mrtomjones wrote: Man... all the trashtalk.. I thought the game must have happened already. You guys really have so much energy to burn that you sit here and flame someone who is still a very solid player? He is likely to get back on his feet too. He has sucked so far this year as far as his results go and I'm sure he would admit it but some of the things people say are either trolly or crazy.
Yeah man, Idra doesn't deserve all the hate, he is so mature and polite himself.
I am simply amazed at the lengths people go to to trash talk someone and the length of an argument they will go to to do so. I personally just wish people acted online like they do in RL. There would be at least a tiny bit less retardedness.
i hope this is gonna be a 4-0 for morrow, so mad and frustrated little idra can continue wishing bad things to other people. negative ppl get negative comments.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
lololol wut??? What was the last time that IdrA won something anyway? btw Morrow just beat Zenio fyi, and Zenio was code A/S btw.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
lololol wut??? What was the last time that IdrA won something anyway? btw Morrow just beat Zenio fyi, and Zenio was code A/S btw.
Yeah and IdrA wasn't in Code S? Do you even know IdrA's reason for voluntarily leaving the most prestigious most difficult leave in the world? It was too easy for him. Who else would willingly leave a tournament that everybody else would kill to take?
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
lololol wut??? What was the last time that IdrA won something anyway? btw Morrow just beat Zenio fyi, and Zenio was code A/S btw.
Yeah and IdrA wasn't in Code S? Do you even know IdrA's reason for voluntarily leaving the most prestigious most difficult leave in the world? It was too easy for him. Who else would willingly leave a tournament that everybody else would kill to take?
On May 03 2012 18:55 mrtomjones wrote: Man... all the trashtalk.. I thought the game must have happened already. You guys really have so much energy to burn that you sit here and flame someone who is still a very solid player? He is likely to get back on his feet too. He has sucked so far this year as far as his results go and I'm sure he would admit it but some of the things people say are either trolly or crazy.
Yeah man, Idra doesn't deserve all the hate, he is so mature and polite himself.
I am simply amazed at the lengths people go to to trash talk someone and the length of an argument they will go to to do so. I personally just wish people acted online like they do in RL. There would be at least a tiny bit less retardedness.
its not necessarily the trashtalk, but people going like "oh well he is sometimes bm so that makes it perfectly acceptable for me to call him names"
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
On May 05 2012 03:51 JohnMatrix wrote: games has been played or it will be live?
On May 01 2012 11:27 NASL.tv wrote:
What is Sunday Showdown? NASL Sunday Showdown is a weekly event where NASL flys out two of the top Starcraft 2 competitors for a 1 Day $2000 BO7 Showmatch LIVE from Anthill Pub at UC Irvine. The showmatch is streamed and casted live ON SITE and viewers are encouraged to attend the event!
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
lololol wut??? What was the last time that IdrA won something anyway? btw Morrow just beat Zenio fyi, and Zenio was code A/S btw.
IdrA beat Supernova who is code S. Supernova sucks at TvZ but then again Zenio completely sucks at ZvT.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
So.... according to you IdrA when not on tilt is just as good as DRG? Lol?
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
So.... according to you IdrA when not on tilt is just as good as DRG? Lol?
You've probably never seen IdrA on a good day. When he gets to those 3 bases or more.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
So.... according to you IdrA when not on tilt is just as good as DRG? Lol?
You've probably never seen IdrA on a good day. When he gets to those 3 bases or more.
Well a player that loses a lot before he can get to 3 bases or more isn't considered a good player i would say...
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
So.... according to you IdrA when not on tilt is just as good as DRG? Lol?
You've probably never seen IdrA on a good day. When he gets to those 3 bases or more.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
So.... according to you IdrA when not on tilt is just as good as DRG? Lol?
You've probably never seen IdrA on a good day. When he gets to those 3 bases or more.
Well a player that loses a lot before he can get to 3 bases or more isn't considered a good player i would say...
So every Zerg? Well unless all they do are all-ins like Leenock does.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
You are so wrong. DRG's mechanics are better than Idra, it's quite evident from DRG's stream he's on another level.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
Goto Youtupe and watch Stephano vs Idra in Korea and you can see how many injects Idra miss. Those games really hightlight the difference in macro. Idra dont got very good mechanics and hes macro are avarege. everyone can spam drones but mechanics also aplies when to make drones and when to make units.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
Goto Youtupe and watch Stephano vs Idra in Korea and you can see how many injects Idra miss. Those games really hightlight the difference in macro. Idra dont got very good mechanics and hes macro are avarege. everyone can spam drones but mechanics also aplies when to make drones and when to make units.
people know what mechanics means... and its pretty much consensus that IdrA has very very good mechanics...
so in terms of that game several things should be noted: 1. mutas are a lot more micro intensive so idra should be a little behind on injects 2. that game was not won/lost off macro -_- what wound up happening is that stephano defended mutas without taking much damage, built up a bunch of queens to defend the hatches too, and then just attacked idra with more roaches and INFESTORS and queens agaist a limited amount of roaches + some blings + mutas... IdrA also got a little greedy taking the gold and presumably would have switched into infestor + roach production at that point once established. he got hit before that, and so his army, much of which was invested in mutas, didnt have enough killing power
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
So.... according to you IdrA when not on tilt is just as good as DRG? Lol?
You've probably never seen IdrA on a good day. When he gets to those 3 bases or more.
Holy shit I love threads that involve Idra. You always get great quotes like these from his fans.
IdrA doesn't seem like he is really enjoying the game or even the scene anymore. Sure, at the EG house he is basically getting pampered to play a computer game, but that can only motivate someone to dedicate his life to the game so long. There is just a notable lack of "Idungiveafuk" towards his actions ingame and out.. :/
I really wish he'd bounce back though and win something huge
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
Goto Youtupe and watch Stephano vs Idra in Korea and you can see how many injects Idra miss. Those games really hightlight the difference in macro. Idra dont got very good mechanics and hes macro are avarege. everyone can spam drones but mechanics also aplies when to make drones and when to make units.
people know what mechanics means... and its pretty much consensus that IdrA has very very good mechanics...
so in terms of that game several things should be noted: 1. mutas are a lot more micro intensive so idra should be a little behind on injects 2. that game was not won/lost off macro -_- what wound up happening is that stephano defended mutas without taking much damage, built up a bunch of queens to defend the hatches too, and then just attacked idra with more roaches and INFESTORS and queens agaist a limited amount of roaches + some blings + mutas... IdrA also got a little greedy taking the gold and presumably would have switched into infestor + roach production at that point once established. he got hit before that, and so his army, much of which was invested in mutas, didnt have enough killing power
There's nothing exceptional about IdrA's mechanics these days. Top foreigner Zergs all have his macro. His army control is mediocre. The one thing he had - great muta control - he thinks is an out of date play style. The one thing going for him is his decent infestor control. That he has over Ret, but that's about it.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
Goto Youtupe and watch Stephano vs Idra in Korea and you can see how many injects Idra miss. Those games really hightlight the difference in macro. Idra dont got very good mechanics and hes macro are avarege. everyone can spam drones but mechanics also aplies when to make drones and when to make units.
people know what mechanics means... and its pretty much consensus that IdrA has very very good mechanics...
so in terms of that game several things should be noted: 1. mutas are a lot more micro intensive so idra should be a little behind on injects 2. that game was not won/lost off macro -_- what wound up happening is that stephano defended mutas without taking much damage, built up a bunch of queens to defend the hatches too, and then just attacked idra with more roaches and INFESTORS and queens agaist a limited amount of roaches + some blings + mutas... IdrA also got a little greedy taking the gold and presumably would have switched into infestor + roach production at that point once established. he got hit before that, and so his army, much of which was invested in mutas, didnt have enough killing power
He used to when the game was in the infant phase. Today its nothing special every pro zerg player in the foriegn scene got those mechanics. And btw the games wasnt important we talking about mechanics. check out the injects in that game
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
Each of these 4 sentences is plain wrong.
Nobody who follows the scene a bit would suggest Idra was on par with good Koreans, let alone top level code S Koreans (DRG) at the moment, I don't know where you take this from. Please, name 5 pros who recently stated Idra was anywhere near those players.
Did you ever watch, for example, Losira stream? He's twice as fast as Idra, has way better macro, better micro, better multitasking, and, most importantly, way better decision making and game sense. There's such a huge gap between their play that you don't even need recent win statistics to see it. And that's true for any good Korean, DRG, Nestea, Leenock, whoever, you've to be delusional to think Idra was on their level even if he had a different attitude.
Also, Idra's macro is certainly "good", but it's nothing special that distinguishes him from every other pro. Most average foreigners are close to his level and Koreans obviously are stronger in general. This whole "Idra and his sick mechanics" thing primarily still lives because in the beta he had his korean training advantage and could go beyond 3 bases better than most other foreigners, but right now, playing against a 4-5 base Idra isn't different from playing against a 4-5 base Nerchio, Sheth, Morrow, Ret, anybody. And not to mention Stephano.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
Each of these 4 sentences is plain wrong.
Nobody who follows the scene a bit would suggest Idra was on par with good Koreans, let alone top level code S Koreans (DRG) at the moment, I don't know where you take this from. Please, name 5 pros who recently stated Idra was anywhere near those players.
Did you ever watch, for example, Losira stream? He's twice as fast as Idra, has way better macro, better micro, better multitasking, and, most importantly, way better decision making and game sense. There's such a huge gap between their play that you don't even need recent win statistics to see it. And that's true for any good Korean, DRG, Nestea, Leenock, whoever, you've to be delusional to think Idra was on their level even if he had a different attitude.
Also, Idra's macro is certainly "good", but it's nothing special that distinguishes him from every other pro. Most average foreigners are close to his level and Koreans obviously are stronger in general. This whole "Idra and his sick mechanics" thing primarily still lives because in the beta he had his korean training advantage and could go beyond 3 bases better than most other foreigners, but right now, playing against a 4-5 base Idra isn't different from playing against a 4-5 base Nerchio, Sheth, Morrow, Ret, anybody. And not to mention Stephano.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
are you serious?
you say he is playing horribly the entire year just because of tilt but actually he is as good as the code s champion?
that is what i call fanboyism... i mean srsly? you don't play horrible every game because you are on tilt maybe he is on tilt after he plays horribly in the first 2 games of a bo5 and then he plays even worst in game 3 because he is on tilt but other thatn that you can't play him doing sooooo poorly on tilt he is just not up to the international level anymore but i think he can get back up there if he changes the way he plays most of the matchups
Morrow is a progamer that has an incredibly high understanding of the TvZ matchup from both sides, Idra does good only when the opponent implicitly agrees to play with very specific styles. And Morrow knows them well. 4-2 for Morrow to be generous, but I wouldn't be surprised for an easy 4-0 at all.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
Each of these 4 sentences is plain wrong.
Nobody who follows the scene a bit would suggest Idra was on par with good Koreans, let alone top level code S Koreans (DRG) at the moment, I don't know where you take this from. Please, name 5 pros who recently stated Idra was anywhere near those players.
Did you ever watch, for example, Losira stream? He's twice as fast as Idra, has way better macro, better micro, better multitasking, and, most importantly, way better decision making and game sense. There's such a huge gap between their play that you don't even need recent win statistics to see it. And that's true for any good Korean, DRG, Nestea, Leenock, whoever, you've to be delusional to think Idra was on their level even if he had a different attitude.
Also, Idra's macro is certainly "good", but it's nothing special that distinguishes him from every other pro. Most average foreigners are close to his level and Koreans obviously are stronger in general. This whole "Idra and his sick mechanics" thing primarily still lives because in the beta he had his korean training advantage and could go beyond 3 bases better than most other foreigners, but right now, playing against a 4-5 base Idra isn't different from playing against a 4-5 base Nerchio, Sheth, Morrow, Ret, anybody. And not to mention Stephano.
LOL why would a Korean Zerg openly admit that a foreign Zerg is better than them? They'd lose all of their pride. If IdrA were to stay in Code S last year, he would've easily gotten Top 8 every season. He's in a slump right now, which is why he didn't do too well in GSL Season 1 2012.
And I am not a fanboy, I am just pointing out the facts... telling it like it is, making them think. I am an unbiased objective Starcraft 2 fan who is just looking for some good games to watch then all of you randomly come in here and bash on IdrA.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
Each of these 4 sentences is plain wrong.
Nobody who follows the scene a bit would suggest Idra was on par with good Koreans, let alone top level code S Koreans (DRG) at the moment, I don't know where you take this from. Please, name 5 pros who recently stated Idra was anywhere near those players.
Did you ever watch, for example, Losira stream? He's twice as fast as Idra, has way better macro, better micro, better multitasking, and, most importantly, way better decision making and game sense. There's such a huge gap between their play that you don't even need recent win statistics to see it. And that's true for any good Korean, DRG, Nestea, Leenock, whoever, you've to be delusional to think Idra was on their level even if he had a different attitude.
Also, Idra's macro is certainly "good", but it's nothing special that distinguishes him from every other pro. Most average foreigners are close to his level and Koreans obviously are stronger in general. This whole "Idra and his sick mechanics" thing primarily still lives because in the beta he had his korean training advantage and could go beyond 3 bases better than most other foreigners, but right now, playing against a 4-5 base Idra isn't different from playing against a 4-5 base Nerchio, Sheth, Morrow, Ret, anybody. And not to mention Stephano.
LOL why would a Korean Zerg openly admit that a foreign Zerg is better than them? They'd lose all of their pride. If IdrA were to stay in Code S last year, he would've easily gotten Top 8 every season. He's in a slump right now, which is why he didn't do too well in GSL Season 1 2012.
And I am not a fanboy, I am just pointing out the facts... telling it like it is, making them think. I am an unbiased objective Starcraft 2 fan who is just looking for some good games to watch then all of you randomly come in here and bash on IdrA.
3/10 for effort.
I think Morrow will take this, with Idra taking 1-2 maps.
I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
On May 05 2012 07:09 mememolly wrote: I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
Why would he show his state-of-the-art builds in a petty little show match that means nothing? He gets $500 regardless. Not only that by he gets flown out by NASL to a bar where fans will buy him alcohol? Sounds good to me. IdrA can probably show Stephano or Ret level mechanics and win regardless, he doesn't have to unleash the Grack inside.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
No, Idra's queens often float a lot of energy from what I seen. His mechanics are really solid compared to a lot of the other foreigner Zergs though, but definitely not comparable to Korean Zergs or other top foreigner Zergs imo.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
are you serious?
you say he is playing horribly the entire year just because of tilt but actually he is as good as the code s champion?
that is what i call fanboyism... i mean srsly? you don't play horrible every game because you are on tilt maybe he is on tilt after he plays horribly in the first 2 games of a bo5 and then he plays even worst in game 3 because he is on tilt but other thatn that you can't play him doing sooooo poorly on tilt he is just not up to the international level anymore but i think he can get back up there if he changes the way he plays most of the matchups
These posts are what makes me tear up.
I don't give a shi about idra's mindset or his shitty ZvP - Its the matter of fact that idra's mechanics are shit compared to before. He floats energy, he floats money - it is absolutely shit. People say it is good because idra is ''known for it'' but in tournaments the recent time its been horrible.
Stephano's domination seems to be a secret to people: Mechanics, dual hatcheries, no energy floating, creep spread, that is why he is dominating the foreign scene.
Same with DRG, drg just has insanely better mechanics.
Idra is not even close, not even close to drg in mechanics. When idra stops floating money, he will start to actually win. Low league players are stuck in this ''Be smarter, more intelligent'' when it boils down hugely to just doing the right thing but executing it perfectly with great mechanics.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
are you serious?
you say he is playing horribly the entire year just because of tilt but actually he is as good as the code s champion?
that is what i call fanboyism... i mean srsly? you don't play horrible every game because you are on tilt maybe he is on tilt after he plays horribly in the first 2 games of a bo5 and then he plays even worst in game 3 because he is on tilt but other thatn that you can't play him doing sooooo poorly on tilt he is just not up to the international level anymore but i think he can get back up there if he changes the way he plays most of the matchups
These posts are what makes me tear up.
I don't give a shi about idra's mindset or his shitty ZvP - Its the matter of fact that idra's mechanics are shit compared to before. He floats energy, he floats money - it is absolutely shit. People say it is good because idra is ''known for it'' but in tournaments the recent time its been horrible.
Stephano's domination seems to be a secret to people: Mechanics, dual hatcheries, no energy floating, creep spread, that is why he is dominating the foreign scene.
Same with DRG, drg just has insanely better mechanics.
Idra is not even close, not even close to drg in mechanics. When idra stops floating money, he will start to actually win. Low league players are stuck in this ''Be smarter, more intelligent'' when it boils down hugely to just doing the right thing but executing it perfectly with great mechanics.
He's not playing very well lately because of his mindset. Like I said before. Every single pro agrees that IdrA is a top 10 player (not top 10 foreign player but in the world) but his mindset keeps him from playing the game that he loves.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
are you serious?
you say he is playing horribly the entire year just because of tilt but actually he is as good as the code s champion?
that is what i call fanboyism... i mean srsly? you don't play horrible every game because you are on tilt maybe he is on tilt after he plays horribly in the first 2 games of a bo5 and then he plays even worst in game 3 because he is on tilt but other thatn that you can't play him doing sooooo poorly on tilt he is just not up to the international level anymore but i think he can get back up there if he changes the way he plays most of the matchups
These posts are what makes me tear up.
I don't give a shi about idra's mindset or his shitty ZvP - Its the matter of fact that idra's mechanics are shit compared to before. He floats energy, he floats money - it is absolutely shit. People say it is good because idra is ''known for it'' but in tournaments the recent time its been horrible.
Stephano's domination seems to be a secret to people: Mechanics, dual hatcheries, no energy floating, creep spread, that is why he is dominating the foreign scene.
Same with DRG, drg just has insanely better mechanics.
Idra is not even close, not even close to drg in mechanics. When idra stops floating money, he will start to actually win. Low league players are stuck in this ''Be smarter, more intelligent'' when it boils down hugely to just doing the right thing but executing it perfectly with great mechanics.
He's not playing very well lately because of his mindset. Like I said before. Every single pro agrees that IdrA is a top 10 player (not top 10 foreign player but in the world) but his mindset keeps him from playing the game that he loves.
No they don't, and he's not. I'm an IdrA fan, but when he gets obliterated by lower tier progamers in tournaments, then it's pretty obvious that he's not up to par. You're delusional if you think idra is top 10 in the world.
On May 05 2012 07:09 mememolly wrote: I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
Same here, any showmatch with idra is not worth it. I hope people stop giving him attention when he is terrible in showmatches, invite someone who actually wants to win.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
are you serious?
you say he is playing horribly the entire year just because of tilt but actually he is as good as the code s champion?
that is what i call fanboyism... i mean srsly? you don't play horrible every game because you are on tilt maybe he is on tilt after he plays horribly in the first 2 games of a bo5 and then he plays even worst in game 3 because he is on tilt but other thatn that you can't play him doing sooooo poorly on tilt he is just not up to the international level anymore but i think he can get back up there if he changes the way he plays most of the matchups
These posts are what makes me tear up.
I don't give a shi about idra's mindset or his shitty ZvP - Its the matter of fact that idra's mechanics are shit compared to before. He floats energy, he floats money - it is absolutely shit. People say it is good because idra is ''known for it'' but in tournaments the recent time its been horrible.
Stephano's domination seems to be a secret to people: Mechanics, dual hatcheries, no energy floating, creep spread, that is why he is dominating the foreign scene.
Same with DRG, drg just has insanely better mechanics.
Idra is not even close, not even close to drg in mechanics. When idra stops floating money, he will start to actually win. Low league players are stuck in this ''Be smarter, more intelligent'' when it boils down hugely to just doing the right thing but executing it perfectly with great mechanics.
He's not playing very well lately because of his mindset. Like I said before. Every single pro agrees that IdrA is a top 10 player (not top 10 foreign player but in the world) but his mindset keeps him from playing the game that he loves.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
are you serious?
you say he is playing horribly the entire year just because of tilt but actually he is as good as the code s champion?
that is what i call fanboyism... i mean srsly? you don't play horrible every game because you are on tilt maybe he is on tilt after he plays horribly in the first 2 games of a bo5 and then he plays even worst in game 3 because he is on tilt but other thatn that you can't play him doing sooooo poorly on tilt he is just not up to the international level anymore but i think he can get back up there if he changes the way he plays most of the matchups
These posts are what makes me tear up.
I don't give a shi about idra's mindset or his shitty ZvP - Its the matter of fact that idra's mechanics are shit compared to before. He floats energy, he floats money - it is absolutely shit. People say it is good because idra is ''known for it'' but in tournaments the recent time its been horrible.
Stephano's domination seems to be a secret to people: Mechanics, dual hatcheries, no energy floating, creep spread, that is why he is dominating the foreign scene.
Same with DRG, drg just has insanely better mechanics.
Idra is not even close, not even close to drg in mechanics. When idra stops floating money, he will start to actually win. Low league players are stuck in this ''Be smarter, more intelligent'' when it boils down hugely to just doing the right thing but executing it perfectly with great mechanics.
See...this is why no one takes TL strategy seriously any more, because people just jump on random numbers and try to extrapolate player ranking from anything they can grab.
IdrA plays an extremely minimalist style. He tries to defend with as little as possible until he hits a tech that's he feels is strong enough to win the game, and then he starts constantly producing units. It's not floating money if he's not spending it intentionally.
Whether his playstyle is good or not is an entirely different argument, but saying that his mechanics are shit is sheer ignorance.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
are you serious?
you say he is playing horribly the entire year just because of tilt but actually he is as good as the code s champion?
that is what i call fanboyism... i mean srsly? you don't play horrible every game because you are on tilt maybe he is on tilt after he plays horribly in the first 2 games of a bo5 and then he plays even worst in game 3 because he is on tilt but other thatn that you can't play him doing sooooo poorly on tilt he is just not up to the international level anymore but i think he can get back up there if he changes the way he plays most of the matchups
These posts are what makes me tear up.
I don't give a shi about idra's mindset or his shitty ZvP - Its the matter of fact that idra's mechanics are shit compared to before. He floats energy, he floats money - it is absolutely shit. People say it is good because idra is ''known for it'' but in tournaments the recent time its been horrible.
Stephano's domination seems to be a secret to people: Mechanics, dual hatcheries, no energy floating, creep spread, that is why he is dominating the foreign scene.
Same with DRG, drg just has insanely better mechanics.
Idra is not even close, not even close to drg in mechanics. When idra stops floating money, he will start to actually win. Low league players are stuck in this ''Be smarter, more intelligent'' when it boils down hugely to just doing the right thing but executing it perfectly with great mechanics.
He's not playing very well lately because of his mindset. Like I said before. Every single pro agrees that IdrA is a top 10 player (not top 10 foreign player but in the world) but his mindset keeps him from playing the game that he loves.
one of top 10 player or zerg in the world ?_?
Like I wrote... player. Not Zerg but straight up player.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
are you serious?
you say he is playing horribly the entire year just because of tilt but actually he is as good as the code s champion?
that is what i call fanboyism... i mean srsly? you don't play horrible every game because you are on tilt maybe he is on tilt after he plays horribly in the first 2 games of a bo5 and then he plays even worst in game 3 because he is on tilt but other thatn that you can't play him doing sooooo poorly on tilt he is just not up to the international level anymore but i think he can get back up there if he changes the way he plays most of the matchups
These posts are what makes me tear up.
I don't give a shi about idra's mindset or his shitty ZvP - Its the matter of fact that idra's mechanics are shit compared to before. He floats energy, he floats money - it is absolutely shit. People say it is good because idra is ''known for it'' but in tournaments the recent time its been horrible.
Stephano's domination seems to be a secret to people: Mechanics, dual hatcheries, no energy floating, creep spread, that is why he is dominating the foreign scene.
Same with DRG, drg just has insanely better mechanics.
Idra is not even close, not even close to drg in mechanics. When idra stops floating money, he will start to actually win. Low league players are stuck in this ''Be smarter, more intelligent'' when it boils down hugely to just doing the right thing but executing it perfectly with great mechanics.
See...this is why no one takes TL strategy seriously any more, because people just jump on random numbers and try to extrapolate player ranking from anything they can grab.
IdrA plays an extremely minimalist style. He tries to defend with as little as possible until he hits a tech that's he feels is strong enough to win the game, and then he starts constantly producing units. It's not floating money if he's not spending it intentionally.
Whether his playstyle is good or not is an entirely different argument, but saying that his mechanics are shit is sheer ignorance.
On May 05 2012 07:09 mememolly wrote: I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
Why would he show his state-of-the-art builds in a petty little show match that means nothing? He gets $500 regardless. Not only that by he gets flown out by NASL to a bar where fans will buy him alcohol? Sounds good to me. IdrA can probably show Stephano or Ret level mechanics and win regardless, he doesn't have to unleash the Grack inside.
Wow you are a pretty severe case of fanboyism man. Sure Idra has good macro, but mechanics are less important in SCII then they were in BW. SCII is more about making perfect decisions and scouting, which Idra seems to be lacking at the moment to be at the very top.
A bit sad it's suscribers only.. getting to watch MorroW TvZ is pretty rare. Hope he does well. And that Idra don't tilt 6pool the last games. ( because that's getting old already )
On May 05 2012 07:09 mememolly wrote: I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
Why would he show his state-of-the-art builds in a petty little show match that means nothing? He gets $500 regardless. Not only that by he gets flown out by NASL to a bar where fans will buy him alcohol? Sounds good to me. IdrA can probably show Stephano or Ret level mechanics and win regardless, he doesn't have to unleash the Grack inside.
Wow you are a pretty severe case of fanboyism man. Sure Idra has good macro, but mechanics are less important in SCII then they were in BW. SCII is more about making perfect decisions and scouting, which Idra seems to be lacking at the moment to be at the very top.
Because he's in a slump. He can't think right therefore he can't make the perfect decisions. I remember when he got to Ro8 GSL.
Edit. Forgot it until now but which foreign Zerg beat LG-IM_Mvp in Iron Squid?
On May 05 2012 07:09 mememolly wrote: I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
Why would he show his state-of-the-art builds in a petty little show match that means nothing? He gets $500 regardless. Not only that by he gets flown out by NASL to a bar where fans will buy him alcohol? Sounds good to me. IdrA can probably show Stephano or Ret level mechanics and win regardless, he doesn't have to unleash the Grack inside.
Wow you are a pretty severe case of fanboyism man. Sure Idra has good macro, but mechanics are less important in SCII then they were in BW. SCII is more about making perfect decisions and scouting, which Idra seems to be lacking at the moment to be at the very top.
Because he's in a slump. He can't think right therefore he can't make the perfect decisions. I remember when he got to Ro8 GSL.
Edit. Forgot it until now but which foreign Zerg beat LG-IM_Mvp in Iron Squid?
On May 05 2012 07:09 mememolly wrote: I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
Why would he show his state-of-the-art builds in a petty little show match that means nothing? He gets $500 regardless. Not only that by he gets flown out by NASL to a bar where fans will buy him alcohol? Sounds good to me. IdrA can probably show Stephano or Ret level mechanics and win regardless, he doesn't have to unleash the Grack inside.
Wow you are a pretty severe case of fanboyism man. Sure Idra has good macro, but mechanics are less important in SCII then they were in BW. SCII is more about making perfect decisions and scouting, which Idra seems to be lacking at the moment to be at the very top.
Because he's in a slump. He can't think right therefore he can't make the perfect decisions. I remember when he got to Ro8 GSL.
Edit. Forgot it until now but which foreign Zerg beat LG-IM_Mvp in Iron Squid?
On May 05 2012 07:09 mememolly wrote: I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
Why would he show his state-of-the-art builds in a petty little show match that means nothing? He gets $500 regardless. Not only that by he gets flown out by NASL to a bar where fans will buy him alcohol? Sounds good to me. IdrA can probably show Stephano or Ret level mechanics and win regardless, he doesn't have to unleash the Grack inside.
Wow you are a pretty severe case of fanboyism man. Sure Idra has good macro, but mechanics are less important in SCII then they were in BW. SCII is more about making perfect decisions and scouting, which Idra seems to be lacking at the moment to be at the very top.
Because he's in a slump. He can't think right therefore he can't make the perfect decisions. I remember when he got to Ro8 GSL.
Edit. Forgot it until now but which foreign Zerg beat LG-IM_Mvp in Iron Squid?
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Morrow beat Idra to win an IEM. But you knew that.
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Morrow beat Idra to win an IEM. But you knew that.
Of course I knew that. I just didn't mention it because there were no Koreans there to legitimize the tournament. If you've ever seen state of the game or inside the game you'd know a tournament needs Koreans or its not even that great of a tournaments; the win wouldn't mean much.
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Morrow beat Idra to win an IEM. But you knew that.
Of course I knew that. I just didn't mention it because there were no Koreans there to legitimize the tournament. If you've ever seen state of the game or inside the game you'd know a tournament needs Koreans or its not even that great of a tournaments; the win wouldn't mean much.
Well then you basically pissing on idra´s biggest wins MLG, IPL 1 Asus Rog there were no Koreans there.
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Morrow beat Idra to win an IEM. But you knew that.
Of course I knew that. I just didn't mention it because there were no Koreans there to legitimize the tournament. If you've ever seen state of the game or inside the game you'd know a tournament needs Koreans or its not even that great of a tournaments; the win wouldn't mean much.
Well then you basically pissing on idra´s biggest wins MLG, IPL 1 Asus Rog there were no Koreans there.
IdrA's biggest win was IEM in china. Most money, most competition. Money And Koreans are what defines how good or bad a tournament is.
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Morrow beat Idra to win an IEM. But you knew that.
Of course I knew that. I just didn't mention it because there were no Koreans there to legitimize the tournament. If you've ever seen state of the game or inside the game you'd know a tournament needs Koreans or its not even that great of a tournaments; the win wouldn't mean much.
Well then you basically pissing on idra´s biggest wins MLG, IPL 1 Asus Rog there were no Koreans there.
Well tell me which tournament idra won that have top koreans in it? Answer is none. Well maybe IEM Guangzhou where he beat Puma 3-0.
Idra won MLG yeah he won IPL 1 Asus ROG. Guess what there were no top Koreans except for Select(not considered a top korean player but still a great player)
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Morrow beat Idra to win an IEM. But you knew that.
Of course I knew that. I just didn't mention it because there were no Koreans there to legitimize the tournament. If you've ever seen state of the game or inside the game you'd know a tournament needs Koreans or its not even that great of a tournaments; the win wouldn't mean much.
Well then you basically pissing on idra´s biggest wins MLG, IPL 1 Asus Rog there were no Koreans there.
Well tell me which tournament idra won that have top koreans in it? Answer is none. Well maybe IEM Guangzhou where he beat Puma 3-0.
Idra won MLG yeah he won IPL 1 Asus ROG. Guess what there were no top Koreans except for Select(not considered a top korean player but still a great player)
Puma, JYP, Revival, and rain. Rain was a GSL finalist. You can't get more top than that.
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Morrow beat Idra to win an IEM. But you knew that.
Of course I knew that. I just didn't mention it because there were no Koreans there to legitimize the tournament. If you've ever seen state of the game or inside the game you'd know a tournament needs Koreans or its not even that great of a tournaments; the win wouldn't mean much.
Well then you basically pissing on idra´s biggest wins MLG, IPL 1 Asus Rog there were no Koreans there.
Well tell me which tournament idra won that have top koreans in it? Answer is none. Well maybe IEM Guangzhou where he beat Puma 3-0.
Idra won MLG yeah he won IPL 1 Asus ROG. Guess what there were no top Koreans except for Select(not considered a top korean player but still a great player)
Puma, JYP, Revival, and rain. Rain was a GSL finalist. You can't get more top than that.
He won vs Elfi thats how hard the tournament was. Idra never been in a slump he just isnt very good.
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Morrow beat Idra to win an IEM. But you knew that.
Of course I knew that. I just didn't mention it because there were no Koreans there to legitimize the tournament. If you've ever seen state of the game or inside the game you'd know a tournament needs Koreans or its not even that great of a tournaments; the win wouldn't mean much.
Well then you basically pissing on idra´s biggest wins MLG, IPL 1 Asus Rog there were no Koreans there.
Well tell me which tournament idra won that have top koreans in it? Answer is none. Well maybe IEM Guangzhou where he beat Puma 3-0.
Idra won MLG yeah he won IPL 1 Asus ROG. Guess what there were no top Koreans except for Select(not considered a top korean player but still a great player)
Puma, JYP, Revival, and rain. Rain was a GSL finalist. You can't get more top than that.
Rain the guy who cheesed his way to finals only to get crushed by MC? GSL finalists? Look at what happen to Inca,ogsTOP. Plus, Rain got to the finals where the map pool was imbalance towards the terran against zerg.(Steppes of War, Jungle Basin oh man the horror of those maps). Can you honestly tell me Revival,Rain and JYP is top korean players?
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Morrow beat Idra to win an IEM. But you knew that.
Of course I knew that. I just didn't mention it because there were no Koreans there to legitimize the tournament. If you've ever seen state of the game or inside the game you'd know a tournament needs Koreans or its not even that great of a tournaments; the win wouldn't mean much.
Well then you basically pissing on idra´s biggest wins MLG, IPL 1 Asus Rog there were no Koreans there.
Well tell me which tournament idra won that have top koreans in it? Answer is none. Well maybe IEM Guangzhou where he beat Puma 3-0.
Idra won MLG yeah he won IPL 1 Asus ROG. Guess what there were no top Koreans except for Select(not considered a top korean player but still a great player)
Puma, JYP, Revival, and rain. Rain was a GSL finalist. You can't get more top than that.
On May 05 2012 07:09 mememolly wrote: I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
Why would he show his state-of-the-art builds in a petty little show match that means nothing? He gets $500 regardless. Not only that by he gets flown out by NASL to a bar where fans will buy him alcohol? Sounds good to me. IdrA can probably show Stephano or Ret level mechanics and win regardless, he doesn't have to unleash the Grack inside.
Wow you are a pretty severe case of fanboyism man. Sure Idra has good macro, but mechanics are less important in SCII then they were in BW. SCII is more about making perfect decisions and scouting, which Idra seems to be lacking at the moment to be at the very top.
Because he's in a slump. He can't think right therefore he can't make the perfect decisions. I remember when he got to Ro8 GSL.
Edit. Forgot it until now but which foreign Zerg beat LG-IM_Mvp in Iron Squid?
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
Goto Youtupe and watch Stephano vs Idra in Korea and you can see how many injects Idra miss. Those games really hightlight the difference in macro. Idra dont got very good mechanics and hes macro are avarege. everyone can spam drones but mechanics also aplies when to make drones and when to make units.
people know what mechanics means... and its pretty much consensus that IdrA has very very good mechanics...
so in terms of that game several things should be noted: 1. mutas are a lot more micro intensive so idra should be a little behind on injects 2. that game was not won/lost off macro -_- what wound up happening is that stephano defended mutas without taking much damage, built up a bunch of queens to defend the hatches too, and then just attacked idra with more roaches and INFESTORS and queens agaist a limited amount of roaches + some blings + mutas... IdrA also got a little greedy taking the gold and presumably would have switched into infestor + roach production at that point once established. he got hit before that, and so his army, much of which was invested in mutas, didnt have enough killing power
There's nothing exceptional about IdrA's mechanics these days. Top foreigner Zergs all have his macro. His army control is mediocre. The one thing he had - great muta control - he thinks is an out of date play style. The one thing going for him is his decent infestor control. That he has over Ret, but that's about it.
Idra got decent Infestor control? :O Every time I see him play Infestor/Ling (In tournaments) he a-moves them into death. If that's better than Ret's Infestor control..
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever read on TL. Go back to watching the teletubbies.
On May 04 2012 14:56 hanlonbro wrote: IdrA will win 4-0. Although Morrow knows Zerg and practices with Bigs but IdrA does have best foreign Zerg mechanics.
Plz explain why you think that and define Zerg mechanics?
He never misses injects, and has perfect macro. Like EVERY OTHER progamer has said, it's his mindset. I'd put IdrA's mechanics on par with DRG's. DRG just doesn't go on tilt and that is the difference.
Goto Youtupe and watch Stephano vs Idra in Korea and you can see how many injects Idra miss. Those games really hightlight the difference in macro. Idra dont got very good mechanics and hes macro are avarege. everyone can spam drones but mechanics also aplies when to make drones and when to make units.
people know what mechanics means... and its pretty much consensus that IdrA has very very good mechanics...
so in terms of that game several things should be noted: 1. mutas are a lot more micro intensive so idra should be a little behind on injects 2. that game was not won/lost off macro -_- what wound up happening is that stephano defended mutas without taking much damage, built up a bunch of queens to defend the hatches too, and then just attacked idra with more roaches and INFESTORS and queens agaist a limited amount of roaches + some blings + mutas... IdrA also got a little greedy taking the gold and presumably would have switched into infestor + roach production at that point once established. he got hit before that, and so his army, much of which was invested in mutas, didnt have enough killing power
There's nothing exceptional about IdrA's mechanics these days. Top foreigner Zergs all have his macro. His army control is mediocre. The one thing he had - great muta control - he thinks is an out of date play style. The one thing going for him is his decent infestor control. That he has over Ret, but that's about it.
Idra got decent Infestor control? :O Every time I see him play Infestor/Ling (In tournaments) he a-moves them into death. If that's better than Ret's Infestor control..
Agreed, Idra has the worst infestor control by far, of any pro zerg player I have seen. He never attempts to bring his infestors back after he fungals, he just proceeds to walk them into the opponents army. Does he not realise that their energy regenerates? It's like he thinks they are only good for one fungal and thats it..
I would love to watch this but I just can't afford to get disappointed by Idra who will most likely lose first couple of games then 5min-GG next ones. :/
On May 05 2012 07:09 mememolly wrote: I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
Why would he show his state-of-the-art builds in a petty little show match that means nothing? He gets $500 regardless. Not only that by he gets flown out by NASL to a bar where fans will buy him alcohol? Sounds good to me. IdrA can probably show Stephano or Ret level mechanics and win regardless, he doesn't have to unleash the Grack inside.
Wow you are a pretty severe case of fanboyism man. Sure Idra has good macro, but mechanics are less important in SCII then they were in BW. SCII is more about making perfect decisions and scouting, which Idra seems to be lacking at the moment to be at the very top.
Because he's in a slump. He can't think right therefore he can't make the perfect decisions. I remember when he got to Ro8 GSL.
Edit. Forgot it until now but which foreign Zerg beat LG-IM_Mvp in Iron Squid?
IdrA beat MVP when MVP played with his left hand only. Get real lol, I'm thinking you're trying too hard to troll everyone in here lol
yea because MVP doesnt give a shit about multiple thousand dollar tourneys and plays with one hand when his wrists plural are hurting -_- i mean you cant even run right to wrists as an excuse cause of GSL MVP; lag is probably the best reason, but that doesn't mean IdrA doesnt have good days
that being said
the fighting here is like either "4-0 IdrA he's really fucking good right now" or "im goign to delegitimize everything one of the most decorated foreigners has ever done"... whereas it should meet in the middle at "I hope to see some really good games"
even if you dont like idra, why cant you settle for hoping to see good games, wouldn't you rather see a tense 7 game set than 4-0 in the first place?
I think it'll be close games. Morrow is a very strong player. I think this will mostly depend on if IdrA shows up mentally. His ladder games havn't been all that impressive but he also says that he doesn't care about that as much. So the question here then will be does he care enough to win this or try to win this?
I feel like this is so expensive for NASL to do... is it coming from the other $100,000 that was reserved for this season?? Not complaining, just saying!
On May 05 2012 07:09 mememolly wrote: I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
Why would he show his state-of-the-art builds in a petty little show match that means nothing? He gets $500 regardless. Not only that by he gets flown out by NASL to a bar where fans will buy him alcohol? Sounds good to me. IdrA can probably show Stephano or Ret level mechanics and win regardless, he doesn't have to unleash the Grack inside.
Wow you are a pretty severe case of fanboyism man. Sure Idra has good macro, but mechanics are less important in SCII then they were in BW. SCII is more about making perfect decisions and scouting, which Idra seems to be lacking at the moment to be at the very top.
Because he's in a slump. He can't think right therefore he can't make the perfect decisions. I remember when he got to Ro8 GSL.
Edit. Forgot it until now but which foreign Zerg beat LG-IM_Mvp in Iron Squid?
IdrA beat MVP when MVP played with his left hand only. Get real lol, I'm thinking you're trying too hard to troll everyone in here lol
Well MVP took out Symbol and Thorzain, so he wasn't playing that poorly. And this is the same MVP who just beat Naniwa and is in the final four of the GSL.
I don't doubt MVP could have beaten Naniwa in macro games, but a lot of MVP's builds were more so build order counters because he studied his opponent's play. It's a different scenario I think.
On May 05 2012 07:09 mememolly wrote: I'd probably buy a pass to watch this but idra has shown me that he never takes these things seriously, so I'm not giving him or NASL my money, sorry guys
Why would he show his state-of-the-art builds in a petty little show match that means nothing? He gets $500 regardless. Not only that by he gets flown out by NASL to a bar where fans will buy him alcohol? Sounds good to me. IdrA can probably show Stephano or Ret level mechanics and win regardless, he doesn't have to unleash the Grack inside.
Wow you are a pretty severe case of fanboyism man. Sure Idra has good macro, but mechanics are less important in SCII then they were in BW. SCII is more about making perfect decisions and scouting, which Idra seems to be lacking at the moment to be at the very top.
Because he's in a slump. He can't think right therefore he can't make the perfect decisions. I remember when he got to Ro8 GSL.
Edit. Forgot it until now but which foreign Zerg beat LG-IM_Mvp in Iron Squid?
IdrA beat MVP when MVP played with his left hand only. Get real lol, I'm thinking you're trying too hard to troll everyone in here lol
Well MVP took out Symbol and Thorzain, so he wasn't playing that poorly. And this is the same MVP who just beat Naniwa and is in the final four of the GSL.
Mvp played Symbol and ThorZaIN a week earlier. His wrists fluctuate heavily. IdrA played okay but Mvp looked anything but solid against him.
On May 07 2012 06:30 Bullet wrote: So it says the broadcast time is at 8, but the event is from 4-close. Does NASL show their weekly broadcast at the venue leading up to the showmatch?
hmm well if morrow just goes like dbl factory reactor builds its easy win lolololol idra will just 6 pool the rest of the games after losing to mass hellion
On May 07 2012 08:55 LimeNade wrote: hmm well if morrow just goes like dbl factory reactor builds its easy win lolololol idra will just 6 pool the rest of the games after losing to mass hellion
On May 01 2012 11:42 EcstatiC wrote: why do people keep putting idra in showmatches? havent we already learnt our lesson? he's gonna lose 2 games, then six pool the rest
So cause he did it in one show match he'll do it in all of them?
On May 01 2012 11:42 EcstatiC wrote: why do people keep putting idra in showmatches? havent we already learnt our lesson? he's gonna lose 2 games, then six pool the rest
So cause he did it in one show match he'll do it in all of them?
As far as I can remember he's done it against both Huk and aLive. A combined 4 games where he 6pooled, in 8 matches total.
IdrA doesn't like showmatches or cross server play -- the only reason he 6 pool'd against aLive. IdrA is much better at live events, and he seemed in good spirits/confident in his interview yesterday. I really think people are underestimating IdrA here. At the very least, the games should be good.
On May 01 2012 11:42 EcstatiC wrote: why do people keep putting idra in showmatches? havent we already learnt our lesson? he's gonna lose 2 games, then six pool the rest
So cause he did it in one show match he'll do it in all of them?
As far as I can remember he's done it against both Huk and aLive. A combined 4 games where he 6pooled in 8 matches total.
-_- he obv six pooled all 4 games of both sets... hence 6 pooled in all 8 matches obv...
but people put him in showmatches because people watch.. half the people are like "omg i want to watch idra rage" in addition to the fanbase already...
On May 01 2012 11:42 EcstatiC wrote: why do people keep putting idra in showmatches? havent we already learnt our lesson? he's gonna lose 2 games, then six pool the rest
So cause he did it in one show match he'll do it in all of them?
As far as I can remember he's done it against both Huk and aLive. A combined 4 games where he 6pooled in 8 matches total.
-_- he obv six pooled all 4 games of both sets... hence 6 pooled in all 8 matches obv...
but people put him in showmatches because people watch.. half the people are like "omg i want to watch idra rage" in addition to the fanbase already...
I'm sorry I forgot a comma, sir. I shall bow down to your lack of capitalization.
IdrA stated on this week's Inside the Game that he doesn't like show matches if he feels that they're pointless. He went onto say that he liked NASL's route with the show match. He like that they put a lot of hype around it, being flown out to cali, and the live barcraft there. So it seems like he's excited about this.
I am curious if fans actually pay for this type of show matches, and if they would be happy to release the number of purchases. Certainly they have to make $ and this would be a great one to watch, but with so many tournaments out there, most offering free, low quality streams, most would probably just wait for the results on this page - no?
On May 07 2012 12:06 Sealpup wrote: I am curious if fans actually pay for this type of show matches, and if they would be happy to release the number of purchases. Certainly they have to make $ and this would be a great one to watch, but with so many tournaments out there, most offering free, low quality streams, most would probably just wait for the results on this page - no?
You don't pay for this show match in a since, you pay for all of NASL3. I doubt many people are going to pay 20$ for 1 bo7.
On May 07 2012 12:06 Sealpup wrote: I am curious if fans actually pay for this type of show matches, and if they would be happy to release the number of purchases. Certainly they have to make $ and this would be a great one to watch, but with so many tournaments out there, most offering free, low quality streams, most would probably just wait for the results on this page - no?
You don't pay for this show match in a since, you pay for all of NASL3. I doubt many people are going to pay 20$ for 1 bo7.
However selling individual show matches is definitely something they should consider for next season.
On May 07 2012 12:06 Sealpup wrote: I am curious if fans actually pay for this type of show matches, and if they would be happy to release the number of purchases. Certainly they have to make $ and this would be a great one to watch, but with so many tournaments out there, most offering free, low quality streams, most would probably just wait for the results on this page - no?
I don't think they expect anyone to buy a subscription just for the showmatches, the showmatches are just an added bonus to buying a subscription and something that may tilt on-the-fence people. It could be interesting though if NASL decided to create a PPV model to view individual Sunday Showdowns, or do they release Sunday Showdown VODs later on?
this is getting annoying. TL is getting cute with not putting shit in the side bar so to even know when this thing starts was hard enough. then this has no updates, the actual NASL week 4 division 5 literally doesnt have a single result even tho all the games were played.
ugh..... guess im just pissed off and need a break
On May 07 2012 12:12 xrapture wrote: this is getting annoying. TL is getting cute with not putting shit in the side bar so to even know when this thing starts was hard enough. then this has no updates, the actual NASL week 4 division 5 literally doesnt have a single result even tho all the games were played.
ugh..... guess im just pissed off and need a break
Puzzle, Polt and Morrow won. Jinro's match got postponed. Showdown isn't listed at "right side" because it is fully pay-to-watch event and everyone who gave money for it should know when matches will start if they care for their investment.
On May 07 2012 12:12 xrapture wrote: this is getting annoying. TL is getting cute with not putting shit in the side bar so to even know when this thing starts was hard enough. then this has no updates, the actual NASL week 4 division 5 literally doesnt have a single result even tho all the games were played.
ugh..... guess im just pissed off and need a break
TL charges some kind of fee to list non-free events and doesnt look like NASL wanted to pay it. same reason why MLG winter arena wasnt listed but spring arena 1 was.
On May 07 2012 12:12 xrapture wrote: this is getting annoying. TL is getting cute with not putting shit in the side bar so to even know when this thing starts was hard enough. then this has no updates, the actual NASL week 4 division 5 literally doesnt have a single result even tho all the games were played.
ugh..... guess im just pissed off and need a break
TL intentionally does that with PPV events, unless the tournament pays to be put on the calendar.
Morrow was up in supply all game after using a really nice helion into banshee+raven contain and delayed Idra's third for way too long. Even in the final big engagement Morrow was up 30 supply.
On May 07 2012 12:19 Kiyo. wrote: Morrow was up in supply all game after using a really nice helion into banshee+raven contain and delayed Idra's third for way too long. Even in the final big engagement Morrow was up 30 supply.
The PDD was really cool, hopefully more Terrans start using it.
Idra GGs (actually types GG). Morrow played really well in Game 1 with a lot of drops and well-executed tank pushes, but mostly just really solid macro. I think Morrow was ahead in supply for most of the game.
It's a fun little event! I'll admit I'm a sucker, they got me to subscribe to NASL Season 3 for this. But NASL has improved so much over the last two seasons that I think it's a good deal.
On May 07 2012 12:21 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Idra GGs (actually types GG). Morrow played really well in Game 1 with a lot of drops and well-executed tank pushes, but mostly just really solid macro. I think Morrow was ahead in supply for most of the game.
It's a fun little event! I'll admit I'm a sucker, they got me to subscribe to NASL Season 3 for this. But NASL has improved so much over the last two seasons that I think it's a good deal.
It defiantly is. I have been a sub for NASL 3 season now and the sunday showdown just a bonus for us very nice touch by NASL
On May 07 2012 12:19 Kiyo. wrote: Morrow was up in supply all game after using a really nice helion into banshee+raven contain and delayed Idra's third for way too long. Even in the final big engagement Morrow was up 30 supply.
The PDD was really cool, hopefully more Terrans start using it.
Yeah it's actually somewhat popular on the korean server. Ever since I saw it in that GSL game I believe vs drg (can't remember the players) I have seen it and it's very annoying.
On May 07 2012 12:19 Kiyo. wrote: Morrow was up in supply all game after using a really nice helion into banshee+raven contain and delayed Idra's third for way too long. Even in the final big engagement Morrow was up 30 supply.
The PDD was really cool, hopefully more Terrans start using it.
Yeah it's actually somewhat popular on the korean server. Ever since I saw it in that GSL game I believe vs drg (can't remember the players) I have seen it and it's very annoying.
Maru did it. 2 banshee and 1 raven, after a hellion into banshee opening with a CC.
Can't remember against who but it was on Cloud Kingdoms.
On May 07 2012 12:19 Kiyo. wrote: Morrow was up in supply all game after using a really nice helion into banshee+raven contain and delayed Idra's third for way too long. Even in the final big engagement Morrow was up 30 supply.
The PDD was really cool, hopefully more Terrans start using it.
Yeah it's actually somewhat popular on the korean server. Ever since I saw it in that GSL game I believe vs drg (can't remember the players) I have seen it and it's very annoying.
Maru did it. 2 banshee and 1 raven, after a hellion into banshee opening with a CC.
Can't remember against who but it was on Cloud Kingdoms.
On May 07 2012 12:12 xrapture wrote: this is getting annoying. TL is getting cute with not putting shit in the side bar so to even know when this thing starts was hard enough. then this has no updates, the actual NASL week 4 division 5 literally doesnt have a single result even tho all the games were played.
ugh..... guess im just pissed off and need a break
you realize that NASL made that thread and is responsible for updating it right? same with this one. Maybe you shouldn't be mad at TL.
On May 07 2012 12:12 xrapture wrote: this is getting annoying. TL is getting cute with not putting shit in the side bar so to even know when this thing starts was hard enough. then this has no updates, the actual NASL week 4 division 5 literally doesnt have a single result even tho all the games were played.
ugh..... guess im just pissed off and need a break
you realize that NASL made that thread and is responsible for updating it right? same with this one. Maybe you shouldn't be mad at TL.
And just so you guys know, they wait until the European broadcast is finished. It might be a silly policy (Europeans should just stay away from the spoilers) but it is their policy.
Game 2, Morrow goes for Hellion and Banshees. Idra sacrifices an overlord to see cloak researching, Morrow cancels cloak and goes in with two Banshees and a Raven for PDD. This worked better in Game 1... Idra seems more prepared and no Queens are lost.
Morrow's now up on supply, but Idra is catching up. Now both are near maxed.
On May 07 2012 12:34 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Game 2, Morrow goes for Hellion and Banshees. Idra sacrifices an overlord to see cloak researching, Morrow cancels cloak and goes in with two Banshees and a Raven for PDD. This worked better in Game 1... Idra seems more prepared and no Queens are lost.
Morrow's now up on supply, but Idra is catching up. Now both are near maxed.
On May 07 2012 12:34 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Game 2, Morrow goes for Hellion and Banshees. Idra sacrifices an overlord to see cloak researching, Morrow cancels cloak and goes in with two Banshees and a Raven for PDD. This worked better in Game 1... Idra seems more prepared and no Queens are lost.
Morrow's now up on supply, but Idra is catching up. Now both are near maxed.
On May 07 2012 12:41 bokchoi wrote: The lack of streams and LRers reminds me of the OLDEN DAYS haha
Who would have thought we would come back to this feeling. Guessing what the game look like throught people doing LR on the fly, making your imagination work and stuff.
Idra leaves his Broods Lords alone while his Ultras go on the rampage and Morrow's Vikings clean them up! Another Nuke is ready! This game is crazy, but Idra seems to be winning at the moment.
On May 07 2012 12:47 whiterabbit wrote: Get used to this folks, soon day will come when you will NEED to pay for every decent event with decent players.
On May 07 2012 12:47 whiterabbit wrote: Get used to this folks, soon day will come when you will NEED to pay for every decent event with decent players.
This day is a long way off, only when SC2 is 5 times as large as it is now.
Morrow snipes Idra last mining hatch and Idra gg. I didnt knew Morrow TvZ was that well his use of the raven are incredible and how he sniped so many of Idra´s infestors
I don't get why zergs don't make 5 or 6 hydras to camp underneath broodlords. Seems like it would be a good complement to fungals to deal with vikings.
On May 07 2012 12:52 pwnopotamus wrote: I don't get why zergs don't make 5 or 6 hydras to camp underneath broodlords. Seems like it would be a good complement to fungals to deal with vikings.
The Hydras wont last very long. They're very fragile units.
On May 07 2012 12:52 whiterabbit wrote: So this will end 4-0 for Morrow? As expected. :/
The second game was pretty much idra's to lose. Morrow fought back by playing extremely well, but Idra definitely showed that he can compete with morrow at least up to the late-game (assuming he doesn't break down mentally). Even if Morrow had not sniped those 6-8 infestors, or if Idra had dealt with that banshee in a timely manner, or if Idra had switched to bl a bit earlier, he could very easily have taken the game.
On May 07 2012 12:54 Forikorder wrote: so annoying that TErran can remain so cost effective of such easily replaceable army but if IdrA gets one bad engagement he loses
I think it came down to Morrow sniping so many infestors.
On May 07 2012 12:51 00Visor wrote: Idra ggs with 170 supply. Very tough spot, but other players would try.
It was over Idra had no income after morrow sniped that hatch and Morrow just got a mining base
I see almost no other players gg there. Idra just needs a very lucky engagement or kill Morrows base somehow. Like I said, very tough, but I have seen crazy comebacks.
On May 07 2012 12:54 Forikorder wrote: so annoying that TErran can remain so cost effective of such easily replaceable army but if IdrA gets one bad engagement he loses
I think it came down to Morrow sniping so many infestors.
uh exactly?
IdrA plays beautifully all game Morrow throws away army after army but one bad engagement and he loses his one shot at winning
On May 07 2012 12:53 TheWorldToCome wrote: Im not asking for a DETAILED LR report but can you guys post just like one sentence updates when something eventful happens each game
This^^
More LR for us that really don't want to give NASL money.
On May 07 2012 12:54 Forikorder wrote: so annoying that TErran can remain so cost effective of such easily replaceable army but if IdrA gets one bad engagement he loses
In this game morrow kept having better engagements for a 15min period and slowly fought his way back. Yes he sniped the infestors, but that was idra's fault and the exact same type of thing happened earlier when idra fungalled and killed 10 medivacs because morrow accidentally clumped them up for 1 sec.
On May 07 2012 12:49 Cele wrote: to me NASL is the funny little tourney i watch when i cant sleep. i wont pay for that ^^ it´s not a quarter of MLG, and i dont pay that either.
This is a live report thread, pretty much everyone posting here has paid or is at least watching the matches. You don't have to post here telling us you decided not to pay or watch these matches, no one gives a shit.
On May 07 2012 12:53 TheWorldToCome wrote: Im not asking for a DETAILED LR report but can you guys post just like one sentence updates when something eventful happens each game
This^^
More LR for us that really don't want to give NASL money.
yes cause if you want something, make sure to remind everyone how cheap you are and how your refusing to support esports, im sure that will get you sympathy
On May 07 2012 12:54 Forikorder wrote: so annoying that TErran can remain so cost effective of such easily replaceable army but if IdrA gets one bad engagement he loses
In this game morrow kept having better engagements for a 15min period and slowly fought his way back. Yes he sniped the infestors, but that was idra's fault and the exact same type of thing happened earlier when idra fungalled and killed 10 medivacs because morrow accidentally clumped them up for 1 sec.
It seems to me that in each game Idra really fails to capitalize on his victories (for instance leaving the two bottom right expansions completely untouched after winning that huge engagement in the middle)
On May 07 2012 12:49 Cele wrote: to me NASL is the funny little tourney i watch when i cant sleep. i wont pay for that ^^ it´s not a quarter of MLG, and i dont pay that either.
This is a live report thread, pretty much everyone posting here has paid or is at least watching the matches. You don't have to post here telling us you decided not to pay or watch these matches, no one gives a shit.
On May 07 2012 12:54 Forikorder wrote: so annoying that TErran can remain so cost effective of such easily replaceable army but if IdrA gets one bad engagement he loses
In this game morrow kept having better engagements for a 15min period and slowly fought his way back. Yes he sniped the infestors, but that was idra's fault and the exact same type of thing happened earlier when idra fungalled and killed 10 medivacs because morrow accidentally clumped them up for 1 sec.
It seems to me that in each game Idra really fails to capitalize on his victories (for instance leaving the two bottom right expansions completely untouched after winning that huge engagement in the middle)
yeah all he had to do was send three or so ultralisks to the bottom right base and he would have won the game.
On May 07 2012 12:53 TheWorldToCome wrote: Im not asking for a DETAILED LR report but can you guys post just like one sentence updates when something eventful happens each game
This^^
More LR for us that really don't want to give NASL money.
yes cause if you want something, make sure to remind everyone how cheap you are and how your refusing to support esports, im sure that will get you sympathy
What if I just want to watch some SC2 and not support eSports? I'm really surprised at the amount of people these days that think "If you watch SC2 you auto support eSports"
On May 07 2012 12:51 Amalaxi wrote: I refuse to pay for a single showmatch that I want to watch. LF RESTREAM
your not paying for a single showmatch. your paying for an entire season pass for NASL.
Production just isn't worth the investment atm imo. The only thing I would probably consider paying for currently is the GSL. And that would only be to catch the VODs on GSTL and Code S because I can't find them anywhere. However, with the poor showing in the Ro8 not even that seems to be worth the investment.
On May 07 2012 12:53 TheWorldToCome wrote: Im not asking for a DETAILED LR report but can you guys post just like one sentence updates when something eventful happens each game
This^^
More LR for us that really don't want to give NASL money.
yes cause if you want something, make sure to remind everyone how cheap you are and how your refusing to support esports, im sure that will get you sympathy
Jesus christ fuck off, why is everything about esports, or has to be a personal attack? I just wanted more LR stuff. I bought and MLG season pass, I support shit. Get off your high horse. If you don't want to post LR then don't.
On May 07 2012 12:53 TheWorldToCome wrote: Im not asking for a DETAILED LR report but can you guys post just like one sentence updates when something eventful happens each game
This^^
More LR for us that really don't want to give NASL money.
yes cause if you want something, make sure to remind everyone how cheap you are and how your refusing to support esports, im sure that will get you sympathy
On May 07 2012 12:49 Cele wrote: to me NASL is the funny little tourney i watch when i cant sleep. i wont pay for that ^^ it´s not a quarter of MLG, and i dont pay that either.
This is a live report thread, pretty much everyone posting here has paid or is at least watching the matches. You don't have to post here telling us you decided not to pay or watch these matches, no one gives a shit.
if you didnt give a shit you wouldnt respond.
No one gives a shit that you don't like PPV. I am really fucking tired of having to read about how people refuse to pay for starcraft when I just want to discuss the matches.
On May 07 2012 13:01 KingRajesh wrote: If you don't want to pay for NASL, then you don't deserve a LR.
Cheap people are the cancer that is killing ESPORTS.
Give me a fucking break man. Not everyone can buy every single pass to every tournament. You do realize a lot of SC2 fans are in high school/college right? Saying that we don't deserve to know what is going on is complete bullshit.
Morrow killing some lings with three hellions and a couple of drones, but Idra's Queens clean everything up. Morrow lands his second orbital and finishes his third CC.
On May 07 2012 13:01 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Idra expands, Morrow does a half-hearted bunker pressure, sends a couple of marines to kill a drone. Morrow now building his second CC.
On May 07 2012 13:03 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Chance is in the building! No word yet on whether Morrow or Idra will benefit from +1 Morale that Chance provides.
On May 07 2012 13:03 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Chance is in the building! No word yet on whether Morrow or Idra will benefit from +1 Morale that Chance provides.
On May 07 2012 13:03 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Chance is in the building! No word yet on whether Morrow or Idra will benefit from +1 Morale that Chance provides.
On May 07 2012 13:03 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Chance is in the building! No word yet on whether Morrow or Idra will benefit from +1 Morale that Chance provides.
Morrow drops the upper left, but a spine crawler stops it from doing much damage. Lings run in and Morrow lifts off and evacuates. Now up 137 to 108 supply. Idra finishing up Hive. But now the drop hits the almost-finished fourth! Idra cancels just in time.
On May 07 2012 12:53 TheWorldToCome wrote: Im not asking for a DETAILED LR report but can you guys post just like one sentence updates when something eventful happens each game
This^^
More LR for us that really don't want to give NASL money.
yes cause if you want something, make sure to remind everyone how cheap you are and how your refusing to support esports, im sure that will get you sympathy
Ohhh, I think he needs some kind of punishment. How he dares to spend $20 on more important things in his life, like groceries and bills!? He really should fix his priorities.
Btw, greedy NASL =/= eSports. I would be more then happy even with 240p stream, like honestly I would.
On May 07 2012 13:01 KingRajesh wrote: If you don't want to pay for NASL, then you don't deserve a LR.
Cheap people are the cancer that is killing ESPORTS.
How many people are watching the stream right now? 400ish right? 400 x $20 = $8000 in their pocket for the entire season. I wonder how many would be watching tonight if it was free? Nothing is on right now so I'd estimate at least 10,000. Not sure how the per viewer-commercial income is but it would probably be worth more than just 400 viewers.
Simply watching e-sports supports e-sports. I don't see any basic cable TV shows demanding a donation to watch a weekly episode, do you?
On May 07 2012 13:09 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Three (now Four) Ultras are in production, along with the crackling (?) upgrade. The creep is approaching Morrow's natural!
No, the creep isnt that close. A bit more neutral LR would be nice.
Both players maxed, a double medivac drop goes up towards Idra's natural. Gets a couple of queens, a spore and a spine.. but Idra drops in Morrow's main! Gets chased off. Ling Ultra incoming!
On May 07 2012 13:09 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Three (now Four) Ultras are in production, along with the crackling (?) upgrade. The creep is approaching Morrow's natural!
No, the creep isnt that close. A bit more neutral LR would be nice.
It's getting closer to MorroW's natural isn't it? So it's approaching it
On May 07 2012 13:01 KingRajesh wrote: If you don't want to pay for NASL, then you don't deserve a LR.
Cheap people are the cancer that is killing ESPORTS.
How many people are watching the stream right now? 400ish right? 400 x $20 = $8000 in their pocket for the entire season. I wonder how many would be watching tonight if it was free? Nothing is on right now so I'd estimate at least 10,000. Not sure how the per viewer-commercial income is but it would probably be worth more than just 400 viewers.
Simply watching e-sports supports e-sports. I don't see any basic cable TV shows demanding a donation to watch a weekly episode, do you?
Your math is horrible, but can we drop the argument for now?
On May 07 2012 13:09 Jeremy Reimer wrote: Three (now Four) Ultras are in production, along with the crackling (?) upgrade. The creep is approaching Morrow's natural!
No, the creep isnt that close. A bit more neutral LR would be nice.
It's pretty close I'm not an especially big Idra fan, but I love creep spread.
Ultra drop into Morrow's main while the main army goes into the third base! Losing a lot of Ultras in the main attack while the Ultras in the main hit some Barracks.
Okay the creep (thanks to Overlords) is now officially touching Morrow's natural. :p
21:43 Idra drops in Morrow's main and attachs some production. Idra loses his main army outside of Morrow main though but rebuilds it quickly. Suppllies still maxed.
Ultras move forward but the Infestors are late with fungals, but they get there! A lone Ultra says hi to a line of SCVs but doesn't take many out. Morrow building Nukes! The creep is over 3/4 of the map now.
I'm not paying for it but I see nothing wrong with people asking for LRs, they just want to hear what's going on. I see quite a lot wrong with people looking for restreams and bitching about NASL being greedy. It's up to NASL to charge money, and if they want to, they have a right, People who want restreams are stealing, and people who are bitching... NASL is a corporation, and if you think it's unfair they are charging money for it, it's your problem, NASL has a right to do what it wants and that's fine.
TLDR: Nothing wrong with LRs, stop bitching about NASL being greedy, it's their prerogative.
And for myself: I could care less for LRs, I just want a spoiler update thing on the first post as I want to see map score.
28:50 Double Medivac drop gets spotted, another one gets into the Main base, but the Corruptors kill off the Medivacs and the Brood Lords kill everything else.
I am really confused, Idra is catching everything that Morrow is doing up until the late game, how is he getting this nice lead every game then losing the ENTIRE game in an instant.
On May 07 2012 13:20 RawrbHero wrote: Seriously, how do you beat that? Tier 3 units die to tier 1 units?!
Idra literally flew all his BL's unprotected into vikings and then had Morrow wreck his infestors with ghosts. It was the worst possible situation that could have happened to Idra. Well, maybe except for a nuke landing on his entire army somehow.
On May 07 2012 13:20 RawrbHero wrote: Seriously, how do you beat that? Tier 3 units die to tier 1 units?!
We have had this discussion a million times. Tier 3 does not mean BETTER in every way, or invincible than tier 2 or tier 1. It just means the third tier. Also vikings are not tier 1, neither are cloaked ghosts.
How to beat it: 1) Don't clump up infestors and have no detection vs 10+ cloaked ghosts. 2) Fungal vikings. 3) Have enough corruptors.
On May 07 2012 13:21 EZBreeZ wrote: I am really confused, Idra is catching everything that Morrow is doing up until the late game, how is he getting this nice lead every game then losing the ENTIRE game in an instant.
Idras almost quitting because he doesn't have the endurance to see the game through, really disappointing because Morrow has never had a huge lead or been destroying much of Idra's bases when he GGs.
On May 07 2012 13:19 Desiato wrote: 30:30 Idra leaves his broodlords exposed and loses all of them. Idra GGs.
Exposed to Range 9 vikings?
Nice choice of words. Usually 15 vikings can do work on Broodlords.
Not with infestors problem was Idra had no overseer and Morrow´s Ghost took care of the infestors. No idea why Idra didnt build any overseer when he knew morrow had cloaked ghost
I hate to dogpile on Idra, guys, but Idra could have won both of those games if he hadn't thrown away his most valuable units over and over again. Morrow is playing well, sure, but Idra is just being far too careless with his Brood Lords and Infestors.
On May 07 2012 13:20 RawrbHero wrote: Seriously, how do you beat that? Tier 3 units die to tier 1 units?!
Idra literally flew all his BL's unprotected into vikings and then had Morrow wreck his infestors with ghosts. It was the worst possible situation that could have happened to Idra. Well, maybe except for a nuke landing on his entire army somehow.
It's interesting how vikings, medivacs, and ghosts are always considered to be Tier 1 by zerg and protoss
On May 07 2012 13:21 EZBreeZ wrote: I am really confused, Idra is catching everything that Morrow is doing up until the late game, how is he getting this nice lead every game then losing the ENTIRE game in an instant.
yeah, idra is playing really well, which is why it will be even more annoying to hear people give him shit if it's a 4-0
On May 07 2012 13:22 vnlegend wrote: idra might as well allin now... something like 6pool or some roach baneling because his lategame is worse than morrows
On May 07 2012 13:21 EZBreeZ wrote: I am really confused, Idra is catching everything that Morrow is doing up until the late game, how is he getting this nice lead every game then losing the ENTIRE game in an instant.
Poor engagements. The last 2 games he has gotten a lead and thrown them away due to poor engagements like losing all your infestors or not having an overseer with your army.
i cannot believe morrow won that game, idra was soooooo far ahead most of the game. morrow playing really well
No, supply was rather close most of the game and Morrow had tech and economy. Idra looked in a favorable position several times, especially at the end, but he gets his Infestors EMPed and the loses all the Broods.
On May 07 2012 13:19 Desiato wrote: 30:30 Idra leaves his broodlords exposed and loses all of them. Idra GGs.
Exposed to Range 9 vikings?
Nice choice of words. Usually 15 vikings can do work on Broodlords.
Actually, the way the BLs were positioned at endgame, they were all just sort of sitting there with nothing around them except Vikings. Seriously, it was weird, and not something we're used to seeing from pro Zergs.
On May 07 2012 13:22 vnlegend wrote: idra might as well allin now... something like 6pool or some roach baneling because his lategame is worse than morrows
Idra never allins.
Have you watched the last few showmatches Idra has played?
On May 05 2012 09:51 ibo422 wrote: hanlonbro, you are entertaining for sure. Do you get paid orso? Just curious..
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Do ho ho.
Morrow is playing very impressive. Dual banshee raven working pretty good as well. Might see it more in the future.
On May 07 2012 13:22 vnlegend wrote: idra might as well allin now... something like 6pool or some roach baneling because his lategame is worse than morrows
Idra never allins.
He never did, before. But some time ago he double 6 pooled after going down 0-2 to aLive in a showmatch.
On May 07 2012 13:22 vnlegend wrote: idra might as well allin now... something like 6pool or some roach baneling because his lategame is worse than morrows
Idra never allins.
He never did, before. But some time ago he double 6 pooled after going down 0-2 to aLive in a showmatch.
Idra always did some all ins. Especially against MC, of course when he 6 pooled him, and especially at MLG Columbus a long time ago he tried a roach all in like 3 times.
I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
On May 07 2012 13:22 vnlegend wrote: idra might as well allin now... something like 6pool or some roach baneling because his lategame is worse than morrows
Idra never allins.
He never did, before. But some time ago he double 6 pooled after going down 0-2 to aLive in a showmatch.
Did you watch the Alive games?
Obviously not because they aren't comparable. The alive games were garbage, Idra replied with more garbage play. These games are good, complete opposite situation.
On May 07 2012 13:26 Pandobra wrote: I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Awwwww This is a bummer. I've never really liked IdrA that much - in fact I used to really dislike him, but that interview yesterday sort of changed my perspective. He seemed prepared, confident, professional, and seemed like he was enjoying his trip and the prospect of playing Morrow. For the first time I'm actually sad to see him getting crunched like this. I hope he can get out of his slump soon.
On May 07 2012 13:26 Pandobra wrote: I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Victories more than 3 months back really don't factor in that much for Starcraft 2 players at this point. (I'm a huge Idra fan....still)
Morrow with the Makka Rax! Idra scouts with a drone and misses the rax, scouts nothing in the main. Morrow builds one marine and lifts the rax back home.
1) His infestor control is just awful. Basically in every game he's just donated infestor after infestor. 2) He continues to make ultras and too many of them at that. 3) I could be wrong, but I thought the metagame right now was Broods first to force vikings and then ultras and idra is doing it in the reverse. Force the T to build vikings and then switch tech and make the Viking supply worthless. 4) All of the premature quitting is starting to catch up to him as he's losing games he has won because he doesn't have the late game conditioning.
I have no idea how he lost game 3 (well I do, I just thought he was in a pretty winning position and blew it).
Wow I mean seems like idra should have won game 2 and 3 but lost T_T. Haven't been able to watch but going by LR anyway sad to hear but oh well I am not to surprised with idra's current play it seems T_T/
6:02 Idra has second hatch up, Morrow sending a couple of Hellions in to scout and kills a couple of zerglings. Idra has roaches though and Morrow retreats.
On May 07 2012 13:29 hagrin wrote: 4) All of the premature quitting is starting to catch up to him as he's losing games he has won because he doesn't have the late game conditioning.
Never thought about it that way before. The lack of late-game experience might be hurting him.
On May 07 2012 13:29 hagrin wrote: I like idra and want him to win, but -
1) His infestor control is just awful. Basically in every game he's just donated infestor after infestor. 2) He continues to make ultras and too many of them at that. 3) I could be wrong, but I thought the metagame right now was Broods first to force vikings and then ultras and idra is doing it in the reverse. Force the T to build vikings and then switch tech and make the Viking supply worthless. 4) All of the premature quitting is starting to catch up to him as he's losing games he has won because he doesn't have the late game conditioning.
I have no idea how he lost game 3 (well I do, I just thought he was in a pretty winning position and blew it).
Mm the other day nestea was using ultras vs alive almost every game(symbol may of used them vs MMA but I forgot.
7:36 Five roaches and some lings force Morrow to lift his second orbital. Bunker and a called supply depot and the factory at the ramp stops the push. Idra goes home. A couple of hellions kill only a couple of drones before dying.
On May 07 2012 13:26 Pandobra wrote: I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
That sounds incredibly like a fanboy ... If you were trying to be objective, you would look at the recent form of both players, not be living in their past accomplishments. It's sad to say but Idra's recent form has been pretty lackluster, lately he has only been a shadow of his former self.
Whoever pointed out how IdrA's early gg's might hurt his late game brings up a very interesting point.
I wonder if it affects his unit control in general. Taking awhile to gg usually results in trying to micro your heart out for a few minutes before gging to the superior force. IdrA never gets experience in just trying to maximize his unit control for a few hectic minutes of desperation. I think that'd help him a lot - you'd see less lost infestors, less sacrificial brood lords, and he'd probably be able to do more with his army in general. His early ggs, both in tournaments but also on ladder, may well hurt him in ways he doesn't realize.
What do people think?
EDIT: Not to mention it would give him some time to collect himself and try to get untilted.
On May 07 2012 13:35 ShakaZu.Sc2 wrote: Every single update I expect "And a couple lings die off, gg" Being an Idra fan would be 100x easier if he just played to the end of games
Idra will never be a true champion until he learns to fight tooth and nail for his victories. He always has the mindset of "That SHOULD HAVE won, but didn't because this game sucks. It'll be too difficult to fight back now, I give up."
On May 07 2012 13:26 Pandobra wrote: I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Hey hanlonbro, you're back! Oh shit, did I just blow your cover by accident? My apologies :p
On May 07 2012 13:38 Swords wrote: Whoever pointed out how IdrA's early gg's might hurt his late game brings up a very interesting point.
I wonder if it affects his unit control in general. Taking awhile to gg usually results in trying to micro your heart out for a few minutes before gging to the superior force. IdrA never gets experience in just trying to maximize his unit control for a few hectic minutes of desperation. I think that'd help him a lot - you'd see less lost infestors, less sacrificial brood lords, and he'd probably be able to do more with his army in general. His early ggs, both in tournaments but also on ladder, may well hurt him in ways he doesn't realize.
What do people think?
I think you make an interesting and potentially valid point.
I think he's still stuck in the mentality that if he macros better than his opponent and takes enough small leads he should just win. As zerg, that's never true - you can always lose your whole army basically for free if you control it poorly. So he gg's early and bitches about bad game design instead of adjusting what he does to what he has.
Zerg can win if it's played perfectly. Whether or not you have to play perfectly while your opponent can play sloppily is irrelevant.
It's too bad, because we've all seen him in beastmode, and it's a pleasure to watch.
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Ouch, I kinda feel sorry for him. I dunno but I wouldn't be surprised if he soon decides to make pause of pro gaming or something.
I gotta admit, seeing Idra fail was amusing for me before but nowadays I kinda wish he does well in some showmatch or tournament, but then he goes 0-4 against Morrow who is "off-racing" against Z. :/
Megumi: "So you basically bulldozed over Idra. Did that go as expected?"
Morrow:" No, not at all, I was extremely lucky. I did a special preparation for this showmatch that I'd never done before. I actually wrote down on paper every single map, thinking about which map he's going to pick, and thinking about how Idra would play Infestors, etc. I decided to go all-in on Dual Sight."
On May 07 2012 13:22 vnlegend wrote: idra might as well allin now... something like 6pool or some roach baneling because his lategame is worse than morrows
Idra never allins.
He never did, before. But some time ago he double 6 pooled after going down 0-2 to aLive in a showmatch.
Did you watch the Alive games?
Obviously not because they aren't comparable. The alive games were garbage, Idra replied with more garbage play. These games are good, complete opposite situation.
Did you read the comment i responded to?
Where did I compare the quality to those games against these? I was merely correcting a 17 post user throwing out a false statement.
On May 07 2012 13:40 Vega62a wrote: I think he's still stuck in the mentality that if he macros better than his opponent and takes enough small leads he should just win. As zerg, that's never true - you can always lose your whole army basically for free if you control it poorly. So he gg's early and bitches about bad game design instead of adjusting what he does to what he has.
It's too bad, because we've all seen him in beastmode, and it's a pleasure to watch.
I am thinking that as well. Its a really bad approach to the game imo. It makes you so predictable as well.
On May 07 2012 13:26 Pandobra wrote: I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
Perfect mechanics? Is that why he was 40+ behind in supply in game 1 even prior to his failed major engagements? Every Korean Zerg, yes, even those in Code B, has better mechanics than IdrA. Hell, Stephano and Morrow (as Zerg) both have way better mechanics.
Perfect decision making? Is that why he make 10+ Ultras which did not do shit vs. Morrow's bio? And that premature engagement on Shakuras where he threw away 30+ food worth of zerglings for nothing?
I was really hoping this would be a turn around for Idra. I've never been a huge fan but he does play really good games and I was hoping to be his fan after this game. But it feels like he plays REALLY well and then he just throws the match.
Idra has GG'd so many times where he had the advantage or was in a situation where he could turn around. It's just so depressing to watch him give up game after game after game.
I would've probably became a real Idra fan if he just fought out the games instead of insta-GGing.
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Ouch, I kinda feel sorry for him. I dunno but I wouldn't be surprised if he soon decides to make pause of pro gaming or something.
I gotta admit, seeing Idra fail was amusing for me before but nowadays I kinda wish he does well in some showmatch or tournament, but then he goes 0-4 against Morrow who is "off-racing" against Z. :/
He will never "pause" pro-gaming as long as he gets the stream numbers that he does. It'd be idiotic since there is a huge audience that will just watch him beat amateur players on NA ladder and bad mouth them. The money is just too easy since he's already built up that base. The fall continues though and I honestly don't see it stopping anytime soon.
On May 07 2012 13:22 vnlegend wrote: idra might as well allin now... something like 6pool or some roach baneling because his lategame is worse than morrows
Idra never allins.
He never did, before. But some time ago he double 6 pooled after going down 0-2 to aLive in a showmatch.
Idra always did some all ins. Especially against MC, of course when he 6 pooled him, and especially at MLG Columbus a long time ago he tried a roach all in like 3 times.
Back in BW he did not*, also in SC2 he is kinda known for being a little predictable and macro-oriented. You are however correct that he has had periods where he has stated that the current meta game blablabla favors doing some all-ins now and again.
* I remember a game on Medusa where he tried a proxy 2 rax and gg'd out after it was seen and the opponent (protoss) stole his gas.
My comment was just to correct that dudes incorrect "facts".
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Ouch, I kinda feel sorry for him. I dunno but I wouldn't be surprised if he soon decides to make pause of pro gaming or something.
I gotta admit, seeing Idra fail was amusing for me before but nowadays I kinda wish he does well in some showmatch or tournament, but then he goes 0-4 against Morrow who is "off-racing" against Z. :/
Er Morrow's not off racing against z. zvt/zvp/tvz. He plays tvz and has done it forever so I wouldn't call it off racing. (Morrow beat Leenock with his T 4-1 or something in a bo7)
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Ouch, I kinda feel sorry for him. I dunno but I wouldn't be surprised if he soon decides to make pause of pro gaming or something.
I gotta admit, seeing Idra fail was amusing for me before but nowadays I kinda wish he does well in some showmatch or tournament, but then he goes 0-4 against Morrow who is "off-racing" against Z. :/
He will never "pause" pro-gaming as long as he gets the stream numbers that he does. It'd be idiotic since there is a huge audience that will just watch him beat amateur players on NA ladder and bad mouth them. The money is just too easy since he's already built up that base. The fall continues though and I honestly don't see it stopping anytime soon.
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Ouch, I kinda feel sorry for him. I dunno but I wouldn't be surprised if he soon decides to make pause of pro gaming or something.
I gotta admit, seeing Idra fail was amusing for me before but nowadays I kinda wish he does well in some showmatch or tournament, but then he goes 0-4 against Morrow who is "off-racing" against Z. :/
He will never "pause" pro-gaming as long as he gets the stream numbers that he does. It'd be idiotic since there is a huge audience that will just watch him beat amateur players on NA ladder and bad mouth them. The money is just too easy since he's already built up that base. The fall continues though and I honestly don't see it stopping anytime soon.
Mate I thought exactly that, I should probably wrote something else instead of "pause". I ment that he probably should (I am no one to judge, just my personal feeling) just keep streaming, earning fine amount of money and stop accepting these showmatches, going to tournaments etc.
I really don't know but lately he looks and plays like total trainwreck and it doesn't look like he will do any better like this any time soon.
I enjoyed the games. I would've preferred Idra to have won the showmatch or take a few maps off Morrow, but the games were generally longer and none were just simple early game cheeses. I'm looking forward to Sase and Puma next week. Thank you NASL!
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Ouch, I kinda feel sorry for him. I dunno but I wouldn't be surprised if he soon decides to make pause of pro gaming or something.
I gotta admit, seeing Idra fail was amusing for me before but nowadays I kinda wish he does well in some showmatch or tournament, but then he goes 0-4 against Morrow who is "off-racing" against Z. :/
Er Morrow's not off racing against z. zvt/zvp/tvz. He plays tvz and has done it forever so I wouldn't call it off racing. (Morrow beat Leenock with his T 4-1 or something in a bo7)
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Ouch, I kinda feel sorry for him. I dunno but I wouldn't be surprised if he soon decides to make pause of pro gaming or something.
I gotta admit, seeing Idra fail was amusing for me before but nowadays I kinda wish he does well in some showmatch or tournament, but then he goes 0-4 against Morrow who is "off-racing" against Z. :/
Er Morrow's not off racing against z. zvt/zvp/tvz. He plays tvz and has done it forever so I wouldn't call it off racing. (Morrow beat Leenock with his T 4-1 or something in a bo7)
I'm pretty sure Leenock beat him 4-2 iirc. He played an amazing game on Metrapolis and won that one but he didn't win the series.
Unfortunately in order for esport to keep inviting IdrA to show matches, he has to continue on being a defiant rager. Everyone knows he has no skills to show now, so it is just the controversy that he can offer - leaving games early, radical attitude, trash talks before the matches, etc..
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
That's kind of depressing. Especially the last one, since he was rather public about it being meaningful to him. No pretending he wasn't trying his hardest for that prize money and SSD. Hope his results improve in the future.
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Ouch, I kinda feel sorry for him. I dunno but I wouldn't be surprised if he soon decides to make pause of pro gaming or something.
I gotta admit, seeing Idra fail was amusing for me before but nowadays I kinda wish he does well in some showmatch or tournament, but then he goes 0-4 against Morrow who is "off-racing" against Z. :/
Er Morrow's not off racing against z. zvt/zvp/tvz. He plays tvz and has done it forever so I wouldn't call it off racing. (Morrow beat Leenock with his T 4-1 or something in a bo7)
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Ouch, I kinda feel sorry for him. I dunno but I wouldn't be surprised if he soon decides to make pause of pro gaming or something.
I gotta admit, seeing Idra fail was amusing for me before but nowadays I kinda wish he does well in some showmatch or tournament, but then he goes 0-4 against Morrow who is "off-racing" against Z. :/
He will never "pause" pro-gaming as long as he gets the stream numbers that he does. It'd be idiotic since there is a huge audience that will just watch him beat amateur players on NA ladder and bad mouth them. The money is just too easy since he's already built up that base. The fall continues though and I honestly don't see it stopping anytime soon.
Mate I thought exactly that, I should probably wrote something else instead of "pause". I ment that he probably should (I am no one to judge, just my personal feeling) just keep streaming, earning fine amount of money and stop accepting these showmatches, going to tournaments etc.
I really don't know but lately he looks and plays like total trainwreck and it doesn't look like he will do any better like this any time soon.
So. Much. Drama. MorroW is very good, it is an acceptable loss, IdrA will be IdrA and I'm sure he'll show us some amazing games in the future as he always did. He didn't unlearn the game of that I'm sure.
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Ouch, I kinda feel sorry for him. I dunno but I wouldn't be surprised if he soon decides to make pause of pro gaming or something.
I gotta admit, seeing Idra fail was amusing for me before but nowadays I kinda wish he does well in some showmatch or tournament, but then he goes 0-4 against Morrow who is "off-racing" against Z. :/
Er Morrow's not off racing against z. zvt/zvp/tvz. He plays tvz and has done it forever so I wouldn't call it off racing. (Morrow beat Leenock with his T 4-1 or something in a bo7)
I'm pretty sure Leenock beat him 4-2 iirc. He played an amazing game on Metrapolis and won that one but he didn't win the series.
Hm my bad not sure why I remember him winning the series haha. Thanks for the correction and apologies for the false information ^^.
After peaking at the results I almost kinda wish I had paid 19.99 to see it all unfold lol...or I could have driven an hour out to Irvine to watch it! Either way, kinda wish I can still see this! VODs uploading soon...?
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Ouch, I kinda feel sorry for him. I dunno but I wouldn't be surprised if he soon decides to make pause of pro gaming or something.
I gotta admit, seeing Idra fail was amusing for me before but nowadays I kinda wish he does well in some showmatch or tournament, but then he goes 0-4 against Morrow who is "off-racing" against Z. :/
Er Morrow's not off racing against z. zvt/zvp/tvz. He plays tvz and has done it forever so I wouldn't call it off racing. (Morrow beat Leenock with his T 4-1 or something in a bo7)
No, leenock beat him 4-2 or something like that.
However to be fair, Morrow showed some insane nuke turtle play vs. him and took the game with like two 15+ broodlords being nuked lol it was awesome!
Huge MorroW fan (I love his paragraph brainy answers to basic questions), not a fan of IdrA at all, but even a 4-0 is slightly depressing to me. One part of me wants to blame it on IdrA's attitude towards showmatches, but the other part of me is looking at his recent non-showmatch results and saying that isn't completely it (esp. with his thoughts on ItG).
On the bright side, I'm glad someone like Sheth is repping NA's best Zerg atm.
On May 07 2012 14:26 Doomwish wrote: IdrA has the ability but not the heart. He is the Lebron James of SC2
hmm, sorry im not from US but I thought Lebron James was very good at basketball?
It's a bad analogy. Lebron is more like MKP. A very talented player that could very well be the best player in the world but hasn't won the big one yet and has choked in big situations.
To compare Lebron's accomplishments in basketball with Idra in SC2 is pretty laughable.
TBH it was the longest 4-0 I've ever seen. That's just clear evidence Idra was trying in all the games. (only the shattered temple premature gg I disagree with). Even down 3-0, he had a pressure build into econ behind it, would've loved to see what he had in the store for the rest of the game with roaches mixed into his composition, but morrow's decision to all in on dual sight was already in place.
On May 07 2012 14:02 Sealpup wrote: Unfortunately in order for esport to keep inviting IdrA to show matches, he has to continue on being a defiant rager. Everyone knows he has no skills to show now, so it is just the controversy that he can offer - leaving games early, radical attitude, trash talks before the matches, etc..
On May 07 2012 14:02 Sealpup wrote: Unfortunately in order for esport to keep inviting IdrA to show matches, he has to continue on being a defiant rager. Everyone knows he has no skills to show now, so it is just the controversy that he can offer - leaving games early, radical attitude, trash talks before the matches, etc..
Totally agreed.
he did none of those things today, but you agree. ok.
On May 07 2012 14:02 Sealpup wrote: Unfortunately in order for esport to keep inviting IdrA to show matches, he has to continue on being a defiant rager. Everyone knows he has no skills to show now, so it is just the controversy that he can offer - leaving games early, radical attitude, trash talks before the matches, etc..
Totally agreed.
he did none of those things today, but you agree. ok.
still its his reputation that gets him into showmatches
I don't understand Idra fans. He said himself that he doesn't like SC2 (in State of the Game), he doesn't have any results. I suppose his fans love SC2, otherwise would have moved to another game... How can you be fan of someone who thinks that the game you love is sh*t (his words)? Just because of bad attitude and he trash talks players better than him?
On May 07 2012 17:31 bonse wrote: I don't understand Idra fans. He said himself that he doesn't like SC2 (in State of the Game), he doesn't have any results. I suppose his fans love SC2, otherwise would have moved to another game... How can you be fan of someone who thinks that the game you love is sh*t (his words)? Just because of bad attitude and he trash talks players better than him?
Those fans identify with his behaviour. There are a lot of people like him.
On May 07 2012 17:31 bonse wrote: I don't understand Idra fans. He said himself that he doesn't like SC2 (in State of the Game), he doesn't have any results. I suppose his fans love SC2, otherwise would have moved to another game... How can you be fan of someone who thinks that the game you love is sh*t (his words)? Just because of bad attitude and he trash talks players better than him?
He has results, just not lately he has been playing bad and has had an aweful first half (will almost half) of 2012. Being a fan doesn't mean if he's doing bad you shouldn't be a fan anymore, that's called a band wagoner (something like that lol). If you are truly a fan of a player, you will support him/her when he's good and keep supporting him/her when they are doing bad.
If you seriously don't think Idra has any results I recommend you look at his TLPD, again he's had a very very bad first half of 2012 losing most of his games, but to say he has no results is just pure ignorance and means you know absolutely nothing about him other then his "bad attitude and trash talk".
On May 07 2012 17:46 Lasbike wrote: How can Idra lose 4-0 to someone who has to master 2 races.. oO
Even korean pro's beat other pro's who use their main race with their off race. ^^
On May 07 2012 14:26 Doomwish wrote: IdrA has the ability but not the heart. He is the Lebron James of SC2
That doesn't really make sense. Lebron is the best basketball player in the world. He has heart too.
idra was good in the early days because he played 12 hours a day and played BW but now everyone has caught up and surpassed him, losing 4-0 to morrow off-racing is just so bad it isn't even funny
Well this is just sad. Another one sided match. I really hoped it would have been close. Well maybe next time it will be better. Cause this is no fun at all, at least for me it is no fun at all.
On May 07 2012 17:31 bonse wrote: I don't understand Idra fans. He said himself that he doesn't like SC2 (in State of the Game), he doesn't have any results. I suppose his fans love SC2, otherwise would have moved to another game... How can you be fan of someone who thinks that the game you love is sh*t (his words)? Just because of bad attitude and he trash talks players better than him?
He has results, just not lately he has been playing bad and has had an aweful first half (will almost half) of 2012. Being a fan doesn't mean if he's doing bad you shouldn't be a fan anymore, that's called a band wagoner (something like that lol). If you are truly a fan of a player, you will support him/her when he's good and keep supporting him/her when they are doing bad.
My main point was that Idra hates the game. I heard him saying it. It's one thing to be fan of someone who is in a bad period but loves the game, is dedicated to it and works hard to climb back up. But Idra just doesn't care, he plays because there isn't something better that would bring him $ ( I mean he gets hundreds of dollars for every showmatch he goes 0-4, why change anything?). He puts no passion in the game, why would you put passion in him? Why be fan of such a guy?
On May 07 2012 17:31 bonse wrote: I don't understand Idra fans. He said himself that he doesn't like SC2 (in State of the Game), he doesn't have any results. I suppose his fans love SC2, otherwise would have moved to another game... How can you be fan of someone who thinks that the game you love is sh*t (his words)? Just because of bad attitude and he trash talks players better than him?
He has results, just not lately he has been playing bad and has had an aweful first half (will almost half) of 2012. Being a fan doesn't mean if he's doing bad you shouldn't be a fan anymore, that's called a band wagoner (something like that lol). If you are truly a fan of a player, you will support him/her when he's good and keep supporting him/her when they are doing bad.
My main point was that Idra hates the game. I heard him saying it. It's one thing to be fan of someone who is in a bad period but loves the game, is dedicated to it and works hard to climb back up. But Idra just doesn't care, he plays because there isn't something better that would bring him $ ( I mean he gets hundreds of dollars for every showmatch he goes 0-4, why change anything?). He puts no passion in the game, why would you put passion in him? Why be fan of such a guy?
Yeah, I just don't understand Idra fans. Most of them are saying that they like him because of his personality!? What? He has the personality of Marvin the Paranoid Android... The only other possible explanation is that there're so few American pro SC2 players and he used to be the best one, but that was a long time ago. I don't know, not hating on the guy. I honestly don't understand why he is still so popular...
On May 07 2012 17:31 bonse wrote: I don't understand Idra fans. He said himself that he doesn't like SC2 (in State of the Game), he doesn't have any results. I suppose his fans love SC2, otherwise would have moved to another game... How can you be fan of someone who thinks that the game you love is sh*t (his words)? Just because of bad attitude and he trash talks players better than him?
He has results, just not lately he has been playing bad and has had an aweful first half (will almost half) of 2012. Being a fan doesn't mean if he's doing bad you shouldn't be a fan anymore, that's called a band wagoner (something like that lol). If you are truly a fan of a player, you will support him/her when he's good and keep supporting him/her when they are doing bad.
My main point was that Idra hates the game. I heard him saying it. It's one thing to be fan of someone who is in a bad period but loves the game, is dedicated to it and works hard to climb back up. But Idra just doesn't care, he plays because there isn't something better that would bring him $ ( I mean he gets hundreds of dollars for every showmatch he goes 0-4, why change anything?). He puts no passion in the game, why would you put passion in him? Why be fan of such a guy?
It's not a musical instrument. If you enjoy watching his games then you enjoy watching his games. You're not going to feel any player's soul by watching them in GSL. All you're going to see is some cool builds or neat tricks or insane micro or whatever. It's like listening to metal. Hue hue hue.
Anyway, loving a strategy game so much that you can't appreciate the games of someone who's way better than you but says he dislikes it is a bit silly.
Umm, Morrow has always been really good. And he was really good at Brood War.
4-0 is surprising, but not impossible. But as always, Idra LR threads are more about attacking Idra than praising his opponent. Morrow's TvZ is at least Code A/B level, as is Idra's ZvT, so it was an even match up to begin with. Idra is in a pretty bad slump as of late, so I'm not too surprised.
WP Morrow, hopefully we can see some better games out of Idra in the future.
A 4-0 well thats impressive for Morrow and a further indication that IdrA is pretty terrible atm. Perhaps he will bounce back and win something or he might just go down the casting path (kidding!)
Didn't watch, but horay for the Swedish Infested Terran! I hope he keeps doing well. Would be nice to see him try on Code A again. And IdrA is IdrA, he probably played as good as he could. He said in the interview just the day before that he felt good so only more cred to Morrow. And honestly nothing bad towards IdrA. He's good. Not the best right now. But he's really good. When he's in the right mindset he's a beastly beastly beast!
On May 07 2012 19:06 AxionSteel wrote: As a selfish Terraner, I wish MorroW would go back to Terran full time!!!
As a MorroW fan I wish he'd play Terran full time. I don't believe you can reach your full potential while racepicking, and as long as he's playing ZvP and ZvT I feel like he'll not be able to win anything major.
On May 07 2012 21:12 Ethi wrote: Yay, Morrow! Infested Terrans are imba
On May 07 2012 21:12 Bagration wrote:
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Can't really consider the 0-4 against Huk if you don't include his other wins against Machine and Incontrol in the same tournament.
Wow, IdrA won against Incontrol and machine? Must have been though matches.
Consistency. Can't make statistics from data that you selectively picked
No you can't, but you can postulate terms.
Like, what are the terms though? The terms outlined should probably be something like: let's take from these tourneys! And less "if I decide a player is bad, I don't include it as a showmatch"
On May 07 2012 21:12 Ethi wrote: Yay, Morrow! Infested Terrans are imba
On May 07 2012 21:12 Bagration wrote:
On May 07 2012 13:37 Tachion wrote: Idra is 0-16 in last 4 showmatches
0-4 Taeja 0-4 Alive 0-4 HuK 0-4 Morrow
Can't really consider the 0-4 against Huk if you don't include his other wins against Machine and Incontrol in the same tournament.
Wow, IdrA won against Incontrol and machine? Must have been though matches.
Consistency. Can't make statistics from data that you selectively picked
No you can't, but you can postulate terms.
Like, what are the terms though? The terms outlined should probably be something like: let's take from these tourneys! And less "if I decide a player is bad, I don't include it as a showmatch"
Serious players maybe? Or players, that have reached something.
On May 07 2012 22:50 Holgerius wrote: What the hell has happened to Idra? O_o
I believe it was the metagame shift from ling-bling-muta -> ling-infestor. Idra was a great macro player with decent muta micro but that's pretty much it. He never varied from his standard play and I think it cost him in the long run when the metagame shifted (because of 3cc builds). At least i dont remember him winning against any good player with ling-infestor or roach-infestor.
For what it's worth, the matches were very entertaining (I watched the first 3 then had to go to sleep). Morrow played very well (as did IdrA actually), and won games two and 3 with some clutch EMPs which completely nullified the infestor support for idra's broodlords.
Morrow played very greedy for the most part, and he was not punished at all. I think it would help idra if he threw in a bit more roach/baneling play every once in awhile to keep his opponents on their toes more.
On May 07 2012 22:50 Holgerius wrote: What the hell has happened to Idra? O_o
I believe it was the metagame shift from ling-bling-muta -> ling-infestor. Idra was a great macro player with decent muta micro but that's pretty much it. He never varied from his standard play and I think it cost him in the long run when the metagame shifted (because of 3cc builds). At least i dont remember him winning against any good player with ling-infestor or roach-infestor.
This post nails it. There was a time when Idra went Muta 9 out of 10 times against Terran and it worked pretty well against other foreigners..well most of them. But things changed and he hasent..changed?
No surprise that Morrow won, he always struck me as a more pure talented player than Idra. Someone who could make something out of nothing.
In IdrA´s defense, he played good games and stayed manered, no throwing away matches. it was way better and closer then 4-0 lets you think. I as a idra fan am really depressed about seeing IdrA in this shape but i feel like its a big step forward in his mentality that he did not throw G4 after being down 0-3 (although Morrow just rushed him there but well) Give him a break, if he does not solve his mentality he will never bounce back but all this shit and pressure from the community sure aint helping. He needs to stop hating the game he plays for a living or stop playing the game he hates.
On May 07 2012 17:31 bonse wrote: I don't understand Idra fans. He said himself that he doesn't like SC2 (in State of the Game), he doesn't have any results. I suppose his fans love SC2, otherwise would have moved to another game... How can you be fan of someone who thinks that the game you love is sh*t (his words)? Just because of bad attitude and he trash talks players better than him?
He has results, just not lately he has been playing bad and has had an aweful first half (will almost half) of 2012. Being a fan doesn't mean if he's doing bad you shouldn't be a fan anymore, that's called a band wagoner (something like that lol). If you are truly a fan of a player, you will support him/her when he's good and keep supporting him/her when they are doing bad.
My main point was that Idra hates the game. I heard him saying it. It's one thing to be fan of someone who is in a bad period but loves the game, is dedicated to it and works hard to climb back up. But Idra just doesn't care, he plays because there isn't something better that would bring him $ ( I mean he gets hundreds of dollars for every showmatch he goes 0-4, why change anything?). He puts no passion in the game, why would you put passion in him? Why be fan of such a guy?
It's not a musical instrument. If you enjoy watching his games then you enjoy watching his games. You're not going to feel any player's soul by watching them in GSL. All you're going to see is some cool builds or neat tricks or insane micro or whatever. It's like listening to metal. Hue hue hue.
Anyway, loving a strategy game so much that you can't appreciate the games of someone who's way better than you but says he dislikes it is a bit silly.
That's bullshit, I feel a lot of connection to players I watch at the GSL. People just like to disregard this because they're koreans and they think koreans have no "personality" as they like to call it, which is a completely subjective perception that people like to generalize about.
On May 07 2012 22:50 Holgerius wrote: What the hell has happened to Idra? O_o
I believe it was the metagame shift from ling-bling-muta -> ling-infestor. Idra was a great macro player with decent muta micro but that's pretty much it. He never varied from his standard play and I think it cost him in the long run when the metagame shifted (because of 3cc builds). At least i dont remember him winning against any good player with ling-infestor or roach-infestor.
This post nails it. There was a time when Idra went Muta 9 out of 10 times against Terran and it worked pretty well against other foreigners..well most of them. But things changed and he hasent..changed?
No surprise that Morrow won, he always struck me as a more pure talented player than Idra. Someone who could make something out of nothing.
Lol excuses. DRG was playing mutas 9 out of 10 games back then too, as were most Zergs. Plus hes playing ling / infestor --> ultras a lot now so it's not like you can justify it by saying hes playing an outdated style.
What happened was simply that everyone else got better while Idra stayed the same. On SotG and ITG he always said he didn't practice much and would continue the trend until it caught up to him. That explains why he tends to suck for a while, show good form for a tourney or 2 (IEM Guanzhou or however u spell it), and repeat the cycle. It probably just comes down to hating the game. Other successful pros have been critical of it, but for the most part they still enjoy playing it and will agree it's a good experience overall. To Idra the game basically has no redeeming qualities, and while this is just an assumption, I have to think that hating the game this much is preventing him from being successful at it in an increasingly competitive player pool. Plus whatever mechanical superiority he got from his Brood War roots has obviously faded through time.
On May 08 2012 03:47 lahara wrote: ok, WTF has happened to idra. guess he needs practice in korea to reach his potential :/
If you dont like what you are doing you cant excel at it and IdrA often slips that "this game is trash" and other similar remarks on for example his stream and in other places. I think he is either to emotionally invested in the game or just bored with it.
Stephano for example attributes a lot of his skill to the fact that he adapted a more relaxed attitude towards the game, not getting angry about losses and just playing until he felt he was content.
The thing I got out of IdrA's interview on Saturday (I think) and even past interviews as well is that he clearly has a pretty good idea of how to improve and get better at this game. However, it seems like he never takes the necessary actions to do so. I'd imagine his "hating the game" has something to do with it, but it's frustrating to see someone with a clear understanding that he just needs to grind and work his ass off but isn't really doing it. He definitely had the mechanical skill at some point to get really good with practice. It just seems like everything is slipping a little bit because of his mentality. I wish EG would hire a sports psychologist - I think we'd see a whole different IdrA - and potentially a whole new Incontrol or HuK as well.
On May 08 2012 04:30 Swords wrote: The thing I got out of IdrA's interview on Saturday (I think) and even past interviews as well is that he clearly has a pretty good idea of how to improve and get better at this game. However, it seems like he never takes the necessary actions to do so. I'd imagine his "hating the game" has something to do with it, but it's frustrating to see someone with a clear understanding that he just needs to grind and work his ass off but isn't really doing it. He definitely had the mechanical skill at some point to get really good with practice. It just seems like everything is slipping a little bit because of his mentality. I wish EG would hire a sports psychologist - I think we'd see a whole different IdrA - and potentially a whole new Incontrol or HuK as well.
EG has had a sports psychologist on staff since the start of sc2, and IdrA regularly reads books on the subject as well.
i always feel a bit och schadenfreude when it comes to Idra. but i really hope it doesn't end up with him retiring out of pure frustration if things keep going like this.
On May 08 2012 04:55 Surili wrote: Hey guys, bought the pass, but am failing to understand NASL's vods :/ could someone point me to them? Or are they not up yet?
Since everyone is saying that IdrA hates the game.. I'm sometimes wondering which progamer does NOT hate the game?
I mean its a great game, but hey 10-12 hours a day the same builds, same thing over and over again. I would definately hate it. I'd be interested in some discussion about that in SOTG or sth. And i mean an honest discussion, not the usual "SC2 is the greatest thing ever, GO ESPORTS"-crap.
On May 07 2012 17:31 bonse wrote: I don't understand Idra fans. He said himself that he doesn't like SC2 (in State of the Game), he doesn't have any results. I suppose his fans love SC2, otherwise would have moved to another game... How can you be fan of someone who thinks that the game you love is sh*t (his words)? Just because of bad attitude and he trash talks players better than him?
He has results, just not lately he has been playing bad and has had an aweful first half (will almost half) of 2012. Being a fan doesn't mean if he's doing bad you shouldn't be a fan anymore, that's called a band wagoner (something like that lol). If you are truly a fan of a player, you will support him/her when he's good and keep supporting him/her when they are doing bad.
My main point was that Idra hates the game. I heard him saying it. It's one thing to be fan of someone who is in a bad period but loves the game, is dedicated to it and works hard to climb back up. But Idra just doesn't care, he plays because there isn't something better that would bring him $ ( I mean he gets hundreds of dollars for every showmatch he goes 0-4, why change anything?). He puts no passion in the game, why would you put passion in him? Why be fan of such a guy?
Why would I care if idra hates the game? I don't care, he was good for a lot of sc2 and plays a solid style. He can go shit all over sc2 and doesn't take away the fact that he still plays it a ton and is fairly good at it.
I imagine there are more players then just idra who hate the game but just dont' say it publicly.
i really think idra should change races to terran.. his playstyle is just more suitable for terran.. turtle style with macro i know people are gonna say its to late.. well HotS is coming out and there is his chance to change
ugg, the vod lags for me so bad, is there anyway I can watch this in waaaaaaaaay way way way lower quality? Like I set the quality to lowest and everything and it still lags like hell.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
You should do the honorable thing and stop mooching off your parents. Quit school, get a job, pay for a tiny lousy apartment yourself, that will make you a man...
On May 08 2012 06:59 naux wrote: i really think idra should change races to terran.. his playstyle is just more suitable for terran.. turtle style with macro i know people are gonna say its to late.. well HotS is coming out and there is his chance to change
I actually agree. He was better in bw as terran too. Bad idea to switch right before HOTS though, time for zerg to get some crazy flexibility and zoning units!
On May 08 2012 06:59 naux wrote: i really think idra should change races to terran.. his playstyle is just more suitable for terran.. turtle style with macro i know people are gonna say its to late.. well HotS is coming out and there is his chance to change
Well, but the thing is that nowadays, terrans need to be very aggressive at the early and mid game, 'cos lategame is rly hard. The truth is, that any race Idra will play, will always have "trash units"
On May 08 2012 06:59 naux wrote: i really think idra should change races to terran.. his playstyle is just more suitable for terran.. turtle style with macro i know people are gonna say its to late.. well HotS is coming out and there is his chance to change
Well, but the thing is that nowadays, terrans need to be very aggressive at the early and mid game, 'cos lategame is rly hard. The truth is, that any race Idra will play, will always have "trash units"
i dont think so i think idrA can turtle 3 cc easily you dont really need ot be that aggressive with terran i dont know i just think idrA needs to switch to terran
On May 08 2012 06:59 naux wrote: i really think idra should change races to terran.. his playstyle is just more suitable for terran.. turtle style with macro i know people are gonna say its to late.. well HotS is coming out and there is his chance to change
Well, but the thing is that nowadays, terrans need to be very aggressive at the early and mid game, 'cos lategame is rly hard. The truth is, that any race Idra will play, will always have "trash units"
i dont think so i think idrA can turtle 3 cc easily you dont really need ot be that aggressive with terran i dont know i just think idrA needs to switch to terran
if you don't understand why T needs to play aggro early/mid, you should not be offering sc2 advice ever.
in any case it looks like some of the games were at least worth watching. maybe idra can just step up his engagement decisions.
On May 08 2012 06:59 naux wrote: i really think idra should change races to terran.. his playstyle is just more suitable for terran.. turtle style with macro i know people are gonna say its to late.. well HotS is coming out and there is his chance to change
Well, but the thing is that nowadays, terrans need to be very aggressive at the early and mid game, 'cos lategame is rly hard. The truth is, that any race Idra will play, will always have "trash units"
IdrA did Mutas for so long. Being aggressive shouldn't be to much of a problem. I think his mindset keeps him from practising the right way and from winning because of that. It's not that he doesn't have the potential to be one of the best foreigners. Besides that I think he won't switch race because he is to proud. From what I know it was the same in BW where he hated Protoss for being to easy but never played P himself. If the EG house doesn't manage to bring him back on track I don't think it's worth it.
On May 08 2012 06:59 naux wrote: i really think idra should change races to terran.. his playstyle is just more suitable for terran.. turtle style with macro i know people are gonna say its to late.. well HotS is coming out and there is his chance to change
Well, but the thing is that nowadays, terrans need to be very aggressive at the early and mid game, 'cos lategame is rly hard. The truth is, that any race Idra will play, will always have "trash units"
i dont think so i think idrA can turtle 3 cc easily you dont really need ot be that aggressive with terran i dont know i just think idrA needs to switch to terran
if you don't understand why T needs to play aggro early/mid, you should not be offering sc2 advice ever.
in any case it looks like some of the games were at least worth watching. maybe idra can just step up his engagement decisions.
gratz morrow!
i probably understand starcraft 2 more in my pinky then u. many terrans play solid macro passive builds not every terran has to be the same jesus christ
On May 08 2012 06:59 naux wrote: i really think idra should change races to terran.. his playstyle is just more suitable for terran.. turtle style with macro i know people are gonna say its to late.. well HotS is coming out and there is his chance to change
Well, but the thing is that nowadays, terrans need to be very aggressive at the early and mid game, 'cos lategame is rly hard. The truth is, that any race Idra will play, will always have "trash units"
i dont think so i think idrA can turtle 3 cc easily you dont really need ot be that aggressive with terran i dont know i just think idrA needs to switch to terran
if you don't understand why T needs to play aggro early/mid, you should not be offering sc2 advice ever.
in any case it looks like some of the games were at least worth watching. maybe idra can just step up his engagement decisions.
gratz morrow!
i probably understand starcraft 2 more in my pinky then u. many terrans play solid macro passive builds not every terran has to be the same jesus christ
Any terran who does absolutely no aggression in the early/mid game is a bad terran, end of story. They don't need to, in fact most terran's shouldn't, over commit in these aggression, but if a terran sits and macros, they will get raped 8/10 times.
On May 08 2012 06:59 naux wrote: i really think idra should change races to terran.. his playstyle is just more suitable for terran.. turtle style with macro i know people are gonna say its to late.. well HotS is coming out and there is his chance to change
Well, but the thing is that nowadays, terrans need to be very aggressive at the early and mid game, 'cos lategame is rly hard. The truth is, that any race Idra will play, will always have "trash units"
i dont think so i think idrA can turtle 3 cc easily you dont really need ot be that aggressive with terran i dont know i just think idrA needs to switch to terran
if you don't understand why T needs to play aggro early/mid, you should not be offering sc2 advice ever.
in any case it looks like some of the games were at least worth watching. maybe idra can just step up his engagement decisions.
gratz morrow!
i probably understand starcraft 2 more in my pinky then u. many terrans play solid macro passive builds not every terran has to be the same jesus christ
Any terran who does absolutely no aggression in the early/mid game is a bad terran, end of story. They don't need to, in fact most terran's shouldn't, over commit in these aggression, but if a terran sits and macros, they will get raped 8/10 times.
you build 4 hellions and chill in front of your opponents base, while you get a third before your opponent in TvZ. Then mix in a runby or a allin based upon your hellions, every 10th game instead of the third. That's like every good Terran plays it. What aggression? Scanning and burning defenseless creep tumors? I'm sorry, by those means, Protoss who chill with Stalkers in front of Terrans and Zerg who chill with Zerglings all around the place are just as aggressive.
On May 08 2012 06:59 naux wrote: i really think idra should change races to terran.. his playstyle is just more suitable for terran.. turtle style with macro i know people are gonna say its to late.. well HotS is coming out and there is his chance to change
Well, but the thing is that nowadays, terrans need to be very aggressive at the early and mid game, 'cos lategame is rly hard. The truth is, that any race Idra will play, will always have "trash units"
If the EG house doesn't manage to bring him back on track I don't think it's worth it.
as long as he brings in the dough he will never retire. Actually I am curious about his mental state, it must be pretty tough to lose so frequently and so consistently while there are an entire legion of fans who only watch for that.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
I don't think he should retire, I mean, he can do whatever he wants. If he can get a living off streaming I would advise him to continue doing so. People (and in these people there is also me) like to watch Idra just because of his rage, not because he is unbelievable good... If you wish to see innovative play you go watch Stephano, not Idra. Also, there are always 10k people willing to watch idra, just because he has a huge fanbase from the beta, where he was really a good player.
Everytime I connect on twitch.tv to watch idra it happens just because I wish to see idra's face when he ragequits or when he start talking about how much futile starcraft 2 is...
Anyone know where the video is for these? All my NASL vids seem bugged. The youtube vids are free loaded up 3 days after the EU rebroadcast, but now it seems I get erorrs. 'This video is private'
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
Disagree. Nothing wrong with being 4th in your group. And if Idra beats Thorzain (who is sucking really bad right now) Idra will be 3rd in his group He is still very much in it. Season isn't close to being over.
But yes he is playing badly. He used to be #1 GM in NA without any trouble now he has a Rank1 in Masters.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
Disagree. Nothing wrong with being 4th in your group. And if Idra beats Thorzain (who is sucking really bad right now) Idra will be 3rd in his group He is still very much in it. Season isn't close to being over.
But yes he is playing badly. He used to be #1 GM in NA without any trouble now he has a Rank1 in Masters.
What? Thorzain just won the most recent Dreamhack.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
Disagree. Nothing wrong with being 4th in your group. And if Idra beats Thorzain (who is sucking really bad right now) Idra will be 3rd in his group He is still very much in it. Season isn't close to being over.
But yes he is playing badly. He used to be #1 GM in NA without any trouble now he has a Rank1 in Masters.
ThorZaiN sucking really bad? Did I miss smth.? He won DH, MSI-Cup and E-sport SM Qualifier the last month and is a major contender for being top-3-foreigner.
About Idra: the problem is, that he is 4th in his group because of a walkover and Cruncher. I doubt, he can hold that place, although he should beat Catz and maybe SeleCT, I do not see see him win against Ret, ThorZaiN or Lowely. Retirering might be the wrong choice though, an Idra in perfect shape is a threat to everyone, but someone really needs him to get there.
Idra will comeback. His greed passion whatever people want to call it and how long hes been in the community would not let him silently depart to just be a raging idiot. He just is in a slump.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
Do you know nothing about opportunity cost? Idra will be cleaning my dishes 10 years from now.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
Disagree. Nothing wrong with being 4th in your group. And if Idra beats Thorzain (who is sucking really bad right now) Idra will be 3rd in his group He is still very much in it. Season isn't close to being over.
But yes he is playing badly. He used to be #1 GM in NA without any trouble now he has a Rank1 in Masters.
ThorZaiN sucking really bad? Did I miss smth.? He won DH, MSI-Cup and E-sport SM Qualifier the last month and is a major contender for being top-3-foreigner.
ThorZaIN's obviously pouring in the results lately and is a top 3 foreigner for sure, I guess because he sits 1-3 in his NASL group he sucks, according to that poster, which is obviously not the case.
Everytime I connect on twitch.tv to watch idra it happens just because I wish to see idra's face when he ragequits or when he start talking about how much futile starcraft 2 is...
Everytime I connect on twitch.tv to watch idra it happens just because I wish to see idra's face when he ragequits or when he start talking about how much futile starcraft 2 is...
Everytime I connect on twitch.tv to watch idra it happens just because I wish to see idra's face when he ragequits or when he start talking about how much futile starcraft 2 is...
then you're a pathetic individual
thank you , I appreciate it :D,
Stop plaguing the forums with your fruitless comments.
My god...that score... I mean i had a feeling idra would lose....but just waw..it was even his best matchup (well for both players lol)
I am dissapoint ....v v dissapoint
On the good side...idra won't say the word "balance" anymore...he will now say only "imbalance" )))
I honestly hope iDra will have a comeback, because for now he is in more then just a "downfall"...he's like jumping out of a plain without a parrashute and a 1 ton rock tied to him. I miss him winning for a change
On May 09 2012 17:44 MrShankly wrote: From what i heard the games were pretty good, losing to Morrow is hardly a shameful thing lol!
Especially if all the games were close, its just the score being kinda deceptive.
Yes I agree, MorroW played extremely well, and creative. In that first game, he did like a 2 banshee raven timing when IdrA was trying to take his third. Then he used the PDD to prevent IdrA's queens from doing anything.
What? Thorzain just won the most recent Dreamhack.
1-3 in group. Sucking really bad. He is -1 total in points. Idra is +1 in total points. 2 point lead which is a considerable gap considering the competetion level of division IV
ThorZaiN sucking really bad? Did I miss smth.? He won DH, MSI-Cup and E-sport SM Qualifier the last month and is a major contender for being top-3-foreigner.
About Idra: the problem is, that he is 4th in his group because of a walkover and Cruncher. I doubt, he can hold that place, although he should beat Catz and maybe SeleCT, I do not see see him win against Ret, ThorZaiN or Lowely. Retirering might be the wrong choice though, an Idra in perfect shape is a threat to everyone, but someone really needs him to get there.
Ya your just being bias. Don't get me wrong I liek Thorzain he isn't better than Idra. I'll repeat again THORZAIN 1-3 with a -1 in total points.
Idra 2-1 +1 total points.
ThorZaIN's obviously pouring in the results lately and is a top 3 foreigner for sure, I guess because he sits 1-3 in his NASL group he sucks, according to that poster, which is obviously not the case.
Hey you nailed it. Don't care about most tounrys. I only care about GSL, MLG, and NASL
Everytime I connect on twitch.tv to watch idra it happens just because I wish to see idra's face when he ragequits or when he start talking about how much futile starcraft 2 is...
then you're a pathetic individual
thank you , I appreciate it :D,
Stop plaguing the forums with your fruitless comments.
ThorZaiN sucking really bad? Did I miss smth.? He won DH, MSI-Cup and E-sport SM Qualifier the last month and is a major contender for being top-3-foreigner.
About Idra: the problem is, that he is 4th in his group because of a walkover and Cruncher. I doubt, he can hold that place, although he should beat Catz and maybe SeleCT, I do not see see him win against Ret, ThorZaiN or Lowely. Retirering might be the wrong choice though, an Idra in perfect shape is a threat to everyone, but someone really needs him to get there.
Ya your just being bias. Don't get me wrong I liek Thorzain he isn't better than Idra. I'll repeat again THORZAIN 1-3 with a -1 in total points.
ThorZaIN's obviously pouring in the results lately and is a top 3 foreigner for sure, I guess because he sits 1-3 in his NASL group he sucks, according to that poster, which is obviously not the case.
Hey you nailed it. Don't care about most tounrys. I only care about GSL, MLG, and NASL
You have your opinion I have mine.
Sorry, but that is bullshit (Not your opinion, that Idra is better than ThorZaiN. Although it is most likely wrong, it is an opinion. But saying, tournaments, you don´t watch, wouldn´t madder is ignorant and does´nt make much sence). Just because you don´t care about tournys, that does not make them irrelevant. I could also say "I just care about my Playhem daily´s. Revival has won 23 of them and is the best player in the world". The Dreamhack ThorZaiN just won, is bigger than everything Idra achieved in his career, besides maybe GSL and that was 2010.
Even if you just look at NASL, ThorZaiN lost against the top three of his division, getting a map from everyone and beating alicia, who defeated Idra 2-0, 2-0 himself. Idra got a walkover and a win against Cruncher, who is most likely the worst player in this group.
ThorZaiN sucking really bad? Did I miss smth.? He won DH, MSI-Cup and E-sport SM Qualifier the last month and is a major contender for being top-3-foreigner.
About Idra: the problem is, that he is 4th in his group because of a walkover and Cruncher. I doubt, he can hold that place, although he should beat Catz and maybe SeleCT, I do not see see him win against Ret, ThorZaiN or Lowely. Retirering might be the wrong choice though, an Idra in perfect shape is a threat to everyone, but someone really needs him to get there.
Ya your just being bias. Don't get me wrong I liek Thorzain he isn't better than Idra. I'll repeat again THORZAIN 1-3 with a -1 in total points.
Idra 2-1 +1 total points.
ThorZaIN's obviously pouring in the results lately and is a top 3 foreigner for sure, I guess because he sits 1-3 in his NASL group he sucks, according to that poster, which is obviously not the case.
Hey you nailed it. Don't care about most tounrys. I only care about GSL, MLG, and NASL
You have your opinion I have mine.
Sorry, but that is bullshit (Not your opinion, that Idra is better than ThorZaiN. Although it is most likely wrong, it is an opinion. But saying, tournaments, you don´t watch, wouldn´t madder is ignorant and does´nt make much sence). Just because you don´t care about tournys, that does not make them irrelevant. I could also say "I just care about my Playhem daily´s. Revival has won 23 of them and is the best player in the world". The Dreamhack ThorZaiN just won, is bigger than everything Idra achieved in his career, besides maybe GSL and that was 2010.
Even if you just look at NASL, ThorZaiN lost against the top three of his division, getting a map from everyone and beating alicia, who defeated Idra 2-0, 2-0 himself. Idra got a walkover and a win against Cruncher, who is most likely the worst player in this group.
dood, don't confront him with facts. his opinion is valuable.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
Do you know nothing about opportunity cost? Idra will be cleaning my dishes 10 years from now.
i wonder who else has forgotten that before BW, idra was offered a theoretical physics scholarship, i doubt he would ever end up cleaning dishes for a living.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
Do you know nothing about opportunity cost? Idra will be cleaning my dishes 10 years from now.
i wonder who else has forgotten that before BW, idra was offered a theoretical physics scholarship, i doubt he would ever end up cleaning dishes for a living.
What's the name of the scholarship? I'm genuinely interested. But regardless, your naivety is astonishing. Intelligence does not have much influence over which job you will have. Without credentials, Idra will be like any other HS graduate, working at McDonalds or cleaning my house.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
Do you know nothing about opportunity cost? Idra will be cleaning my dishes 10 years from now.
i wonder who else has forgotten that before BW, idra was offered a theoretical physics scholarship, i doubt he would ever end up cleaning dishes for a living.
What's the name of the scholarship? I'm genuinely interested. But regardless, your naivety is astonishing. Intelligence does not have much influence over which job you will have. Without credentials, Idra will be like any other HS graduate, working at McDonalds or cleaning my house.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
Do you know nothing about opportunity cost? Idra will be cleaning my dishes 10 years from now.
i wonder who else has forgotten that before BW, idra was offered a theoretical physics scholarship, i doubt he would ever end up cleaning dishes for a living.
What's the name of the scholarship? I'm genuinely interested. But regardless, your naivety is astonishing. Intelligence does not have much influence over which job you will have. Without credentials, Idra will be like any other HS graduate, working at McDonalds or cleaning my house.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IdrA check it out yourself, also, on stream idra has said before that if he wasnt playing starcraft hed like to work in theoretical physics, he is by no means too old to start now or in the next decade, so yes, as a matter of fact, his natural intelligence would, in this case, prevent him from cleaing your house or washing your dishes. my statement was not made out of naivete, it was in fact made out of a superior grasp of the facts behind the argument.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
Do you know nothing about opportunity cost? Idra will be cleaning my dishes 10 years from now.
i wonder who else has forgotten that before BW, idra was offered a theoretical physics scholarship, i doubt he would ever end up cleaning dishes for a living.
What's the name of the scholarship? I'm genuinely interested. But regardless, your naivety is astonishing. Intelligence does not have much influence over which job you will have. Without credentials, Idra will be like any other HS graduate, working at McDonalds or cleaning my house.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IdrA check it out yourself, also, on stream idra has said before that if he wasnt playing starcraft hed like to work in theoretical physics, he is by no means too old to start now or in the next decade, so yes, as a matter of fact, his natural intelligence would, in this case, prevent him from cleaing your house or washing your dishes. my statement was not made out of naivete, it was in fact made out of a superior grasp of the facts behind the argument.
rofl, what a joke. I'm dying of laughter right now. You think Idra will attend college in his late 20s in pursuit of his dreams of becoming a theoretical physicist? That's 8-10 years, excluding post doctorate. Even the premise of obtaining a college degree from an university becomes slim with tuition rates as high as they are. He will likely not attend college, and if he does, it will be from a community college. Your crazy to think he shouldn't retire. It's the reasonable choice. I'm doing him a favor by suggesting it; if he listens, maybe he won't be mowing my lawn after all.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
Do you know nothing about opportunity cost? Idra will be cleaning my dishes 10 years from now.
i wonder who else has forgotten that before BW, idra was offered a theoretical physics scholarship, i doubt he would ever end up cleaning dishes for a living.
What's the name of the scholarship? I'm genuinely interested. But regardless, your naivety is astonishing. Intelligence does not have much influence over which job you will have. Without credentials, Idra will be like any other HS graduate, working at McDonalds or cleaning my house.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IdrA check it out yourself, also, on stream idra has said before that if he wasnt playing starcraft hed like to work in theoretical physics, he is by no means too old to start now or in the next decade, so yes, as a matter of fact, his natural intelligence would, in this case, prevent him from cleaing your house or washing your dishes. my statement was not made out of naivete, it was in fact made out of a superior grasp of the facts behind the argument.
rofl, what a joke. I'm dying of laughter right now. You think Idra will attend college in his late 20s in pursuit of his dreams of becoming a theoretical physicist? That's 8-10 years, excluding post doctorate. Even the premise of obtaining a college degree from an university becomes slim with tuition rates as high as they are. He will likely not attend college, and if he does, it will be from a community college. Your crazy to think he shouldn't retire. It's the reasonable choice. I'm doing him a favor by suggesting it; if he listens, maybe he won't be mowing my lawn after all.
your argument just said he both should, and should not retire, since if you think theres no possibility of starting anew, then clearly he shouldnt retire. that having been said, your numbers seem way off, admittedly my understanding is of the australian education system, where you would be getting your doctorate while working, after 5 or 6 years from first beginning your undergrad (there is a masters program in the middle of that) people start qualificiations like that in their mid to late twenties all the time, its really not unheard of.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
Do you know nothing about opportunity cost? Idra will be cleaning my dishes 10 years from now.
i wonder who else has forgotten that before BW, idra was offered a theoretical physics scholarship, i doubt he would ever end up cleaning dishes for a living.
What's the name of the scholarship? I'm genuinely interested. But regardless, your naivety is astonishing. Intelligence does not have much influence over which job you will have. Without credentials, Idra will be like any other HS graduate, working at McDonalds or cleaning my house.
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute iirc... pretty highly ranked engineering school
believe he said that he had that option if he quit in an interview, implying its still on the table (or at least was as of that interview ~year ago?)
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
Do you know nothing about opportunity cost? Idra will be cleaning my dishes 10 years from now.
i wonder who else has forgotten that before BW, idra was offered a theoretical physics scholarship, i doubt he would ever end up cleaning dishes for a living.
What's the name of the scholarship? I'm genuinely interested. But regardless, your naivety is astonishing. Intelligence does not have much influence over which job you will have. Without credentials, Idra will be like any other HS graduate, working at McDonalds or cleaning my house.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IdrA check it out yourself, also, on stream idra has said before that if he wasnt playing starcraft hed like to work in theoretical physics, he is by no means too old to start now or in the next decade, so yes, as a matter of fact, his natural intelligence would, in this case, prevent him from cleaing your house or washing your dishes. my statement was not made out of naivete, it was in fact made out of a superior grasp of the facts behind the argument.
rofl, what a joke. I'm dying of laughter right now. You think Idra will attend college in his late 20s in pursuit of his dreams of becoming a theoretical physicist? That's 8-10 years, excluding post doctorate. Even the premise of obtaining a college degree from an university becomes slim with tuition rates as high as they are. He will likely not attend college, and if he does, it will be from a community college. Your crazy to think he shouldn't retire. It's the reasonable choice. I'm doing him a favor by suggesting it; if he listens, maybe he won't be mowing my lawn after all.
your argument just said he both should, and should not retire, since if you think theres no possibility of starting anew, then clearly he shouldnt retire. that having been said, your numbers seem way off, admittedly my understanding is of the australian education system, where you would be getting your doctorate while working, after 5 or 6 years from first beginning your undergrad (there is a masters program in the middle of that) people start qualificiations like that in their mid to late twenties all the time, its really not unheard of.
It's always possible to start anew, but not always convenient. If he waits many years to retire, say 7 years, then attending college(4 years) and/or graduate school(4-6 years) will be very inconvenient, both psychologically and economically. Perhaps if he doesn't retire within 8 years, he shouldn't retire at all and continue playing video games fruitlessly. His life could be summarized as that of a hamster running on a tread meal for a spectator's enjoyment. The more he runs, the more food we give him, and his routine of waking up and running all day for food repeats itself every day of every month of every year until he dies. Is this the life you want Idra to live? Rest assured, if he does have a late retirement, I will be willing to hire him.
On May 08 2012 06:03 vertigo1 wrote: idra should do the honourable thing and retire
Agreed.
why should he retire? he is still one of the best foreigners, that might not be saying a lot but it is still true, plus he makes good money, who else can get 10k stream viewers so easily? stephano and MKP with a webcam but no one else - 98% of foreigners have the same results he has had at recent major tourneys, should they retire also?
Do you know nothing about opportunity cost? Idra will be cleaning my dishes 10 years from now.
i wonder who else has forgotten that before BW, idra was offered a theoretical physics scholarship, i doubt he would ever end up cleaning dishes for a living.
What's the name of the scholarship? I'm genuinely interested. But regardless, your naivety is astonishing. Intelligence does not have much influence over which job you will have. Without credentials, Idra will be like any other HS graduate, working at McDonalds or cleaning my house.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IdrA check it out yourself, also, on stream idra has said before that if he wasnt playing starcraft hed like to work in theoretical physics, he is by no means too old to start now or in the next decade, so yes, as a matter of fact, his natural intelligence would, in this case, prevent him from cleaing your house or washing your dishes. my statement was not made out of naivete, it was in fact made out of a superior grasp of the facts behind the argument.
rofl, what a joke. I'm dying of laughter right now. You think Idra will attend college in his late 20s in pursuit of his dreams of becoming a theoretical physicist? That's 8-10 years, excluding post doctorate. Even the premise of obtaining a college degree from an university becomes slim with tuition rates as high as they are. He will likely not attend college, and if he does, it will be from a community college. Your crazy to think he shouldn't retire. It's the reasonable choice. I'm doing him a favor by suggesting it; if he listens, maybe he won't be mowing my lawn after all.
your argument just said he both should, and should not retire, since if you think theres no possibility of starting anew, then clearly he shouldnt retire. that having been said, your numbers seem way off, admittedly my understanding is of the australian education system, where you would be getting your doctorate while working, after 5 or 6 years from first beginning your undergrad (there is a masters program in the middle of that) people start qualificiations like that in their mid to late twenties all the time, its really not unheard of.
It's always possible to start anew, but not always convenient. If he waits many years to retire, say 7 years, then attending college(4 years) and/or graduate school(4-6 years) will be very inconvenient, both psychologically and economically. Perhaps if he doesn't retire within 8 years, he shouldn't retire at all and continue playing video games fruitlessly. His life could be summarized as that of a hamster running on a tread meal for a spectator's enjoyment. The more he runs, the more food we give him, and his routine of waking up and running all day for food repeats itself every day of every month of every year until he dies. Is this the life you want Idra to live? Rest assured, if he does have a late retirement, I will be willing to hire him.
technically you could describe most peoples lives that way, but when you think about it seriously, it seems highly probably that IdrA will either suck it up and start playing well again, or hell retire when he gets sick of it, a lot sooner than 7 years from now, if i were to wager a time, id probably give it three years considering his personality.
I'm happy for Morrow, he is a really underated and creative player. I'm still a bit sad that he switched to terran, but it was about time that he got a reward for his training in Korea. Really looking forward to see him play more/
If any athlete would retire as soon as he hit a rough patch we wouldn't have many athletes in the world. I see no reason why Idra would retire before at least HotS is out we see which direction the game is going.
On May 10 2012 18:24 Jetaap wrote: I'm happy for Morrow, he is a really underated and creative player. I'm still a bit sad that he switched to terran, but it was about time that he got a reward for his training in Korea. Really looking forward to see him play more/
He's still zerg in ZvT and ZvP, and I'm actually glad he plays terran vs zerg, since he does so much creative play. There isn't really much creativity to be done in ZvZ.
ThorZaiN sucking really bad? Did I miss smth.? He won DH, MSI-Cup and E-sport SM Qualifier the last month and is a major contender for being top-3-foreigner.
About Idra: the problem is, that he is 4th in his group because of a walkover and Cruncher. I doubt, he can hold that place, although he should beat Catz and maybe SeleCT, I do not see see him win against Ret, ThorZaiN or Lowely. Retirering might be the wrong choice though, an Idra in perfect shape is a threat to everyone, but someone really needs him to get there.
Ya your just being bias. Don't get me wrong I liek Thorzain he isn't better than Idra. I'll repeat again THORZAIN 1-3 with a -1 in total points.
Idra 2-1 +1 total points.
ThorZaIN's obviously pouring in the results lately and is a top 3 foreigner for sure, I guess because he sits 1-3 in his NASL group he sucks, according to that poster, which is obviously not the case.
Hey you nailed it. Don't care about most tounrys. I only care about GSL, MLG, and NASL
You have your opinion I have mine.
Sorry, but that is bullshit (Not your opinion, that Idra is better than ThorZaiN. Although it is most likely wrong, it is an opinion. But saying, tournaments, you don´t watch, wouldn´t madder is ignorant and does´nt make much sence). Just because you don´t care about tournys, that does not make them irrelevant. I could also say "I just care about my Playhem daily´s. Revival has won 23 of them and is the best player in the world". The Dreamhack ThorZaiN just won, is bigger than everything Idra achieved in his career, besides maybe GSL and that was 2010.
Even if you just look at NASL, ThorZaiN lost against the top three of his division, getting a map from everyone and beating alicia, who defeated Idra 2-0, 2-0 himself. Idra got a walkover and a win against Cruncher, who is most likely the worst player in this group.
GSL and MLG are the top dogs. Dreamhack is a distant 3rd.
On May 18 2012 02:25 Gladiator333 wrote: Sick looking forward to this showmatch, cant say it will be a close series :D
slowpoke.jpg
This was played about a week ago.
I meant Naniwa vs IdrA, you don't need to be rude.
Is that a showmatch that will happen? Nani will roflstomp Idra at least as impressively as Morrow did. It is really sad to see a top NA player fall so far, I just don't feel like I can count on Idra to win anything anymore.
On May 07 2012 13:26 Pandobra wrote: I am merely giving out an objective answer as to who I think will win. You are accusing me of being a fanboy with no support. I am stating facts about idra. Perfect mechanics. Perfect decision making on a good day. What has morrow won? Idra has an IEM and an MLG. Based on that, idra will 4-0. No fanboy, just objective perspective. You kids are the ones making me out as a fanboy. I am just an ESPORTS fan looking for good games to watch while saying on a public forum who I think will win. Idra has proven that he can win championships. Morrow has not.
EPT
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MorroW < Shakuras Plateau > 
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, and check up reddit right after the series ends xD Peeps gonna be ragin'. They didn't appreciate his play in content provided for free, so I somehow doubt they'll be enthusiastic for the idea of it being premium xD
(Sarcasm)
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