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MLG Spring Arena [Day 2] - Page 62

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
April 22 2012 00:02 GMT
#1221
Grubby looking sharp
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Zerothegreat
Profile Joined September 2010
United States787 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-22 00:03:39
April 22 2012 00:02 GMT
#1222
On April 22 2012 08:57 Porcelina wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 08:46 Zerothegreat wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:43 SiroKO wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:40 Zerothegreat wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:38 SiroKO wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:36 Zerothegreat wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:35 SiroKO wrote:
can't believe we had 1 year of zerg whining about a so called deathball which in fact doesn't stand a chance agaist well microed bl/infestors.



You mean stood a chance against very bad vortexes? And only 2 archons?? =/


Had the zerg either researched neural or learn how to not clump broodlords game would have end the game 10 minutes before, thanks for the reminder.


Microing broods is like trying to micro hydra.... And spreading them out too much makes them easier to be picked off by remaining stalkers for w/e the vortex doesn't get. Too much QQ


Just an observation of a glaring balance flaw.
Zerg is supposed to be ahead in the number of bases because of low cost-efficiency, however broodlords/infestors is the most cost-efficient unit combinaison of the game, only challenged by storm/colossi against bioball in PvT.



If you really want to see balance problems watch Leenock vs HeRo from Ro16 series.... Protoss late game is extremely hard to beat when played correctly. Zerg has to play perfect and even then it's very hard.


Both HerO v Leenock from Code S and Parting v Violet here had play that would be laughed at when this game gets more figured out.

Wings of Liberty is still so young, so unexplored in late game and lacks so much refinement. Claiming racial imbalance in super late game is so silly because there is not enough data on it and because we see new developments whenever a matchup has so far found a stable way to transition there.

At some point this game needs to be figured out. It will probably not be in Wings of Liberty, because any projected release date for Heart of the Swarm will certainly come way before this point. But all the same, at some point we just have to sit back and look at the game develop over a long period of time. Both spectators and professionals like to point out whatever they think to be evidence of imbalance, but even if a game was balanced perfectly, we will go through long periods of things feeling imbalanced because a race had something figured out while the other did not.

Of course it is always going to be a fear that we will never reach that stage. I hope Blizzard will have the integrity and confidence to leave things alone at some point; the whining will be immense but the alternative is that we just remain in a flux where skill and development takes a back seat to micro managing racial win percentages through nerfs and buffs.


I'm not saying the game is imbalanced at all. I'm saying a standard game can shift in favoring one race over another depending on the length of the game. Which isn't really fun gameplay if you get in the mindset: "I have to kill (insert race here) before they get a certain army composition or I lose!" OR "I have to stay alive until I get a certain composition of units to have an easier chance to win."

Edit: Anyways, I'm getting off topic so I will be sticking to what the thread is designed for now.
Jaegeru
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom676 Posts
April 22 2012 00:02 GMT
#1223
Ganzi so good with that multitasking dropping so much and with constant aggression.
MVP on winning his Fourth GSL - "Yeah I know the routine, take the flowers and cheque, I will kiss the trophy for the photo"
0ne
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Spain2464 Posts
April 22 2012 00:02 GMT
#1224
On April 22 2012 08:59 Aunvilgod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 07:57 Azarkon wrote:
On April 22 2012 07:51 lulutheking wrote:
One none Korean and he's getting own... The gap is huge, seems like only Stephano and Naniwa have the level to compete with Koreans, all other foreigners are really far from the average Korean


Average Koreans? Haha.

Naniwa has a shot - his PvP >= MC and Parting, his PvT is good enough to take down Ganzi and Heart, but not MKP. He loses to DRG and Violet, though.

Stephano, no, because this line-up is Terran heavy and Stephano's ZvT isn't at this caliber.


Stephano´s ZvT definately is at this caliber. I mean, Polt is not bad, is he?

Do you remember MMA vs Stephano?
Rk0
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands224 Posts
April 22 2012 00:02 GMT
#1225
shakuras is so terrible in zvt, it is horrible if there are tanks on the high ground and you cant do shit about em
Ectrid
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany51 Posts
April 22 2012 00:02 GMT
#1226
are there any restreams with original sound? please keep the internet free... it started so good

User was banned for this post.
Nobody is more a slave than the one who considers himself free without being free
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
April 22 2012 00:03 GMT
#1227
Yeah, ok, analysts also thought it was weird to pull SCVs yet start a CC, I'm reassured.
Was it a genius decision?
I'm still sticking with the "oh shit I'm not macroing and I have a lot of mins lol" CC.
dcsoda
Profile Joined June 2011
United States583 Posts
April 22 2012 00:03 GMT
#1228
Felt like Ganzi should have been hurt more by that first push with all the SCVs I'm not sure what happened with that game.
thepuppyassassin
Profile Joined April 2011
900 Posts
April 22 2012 00:03 GMT
#1229
Hmmm... These tournaments should have a clause where players get paid the bulk of their money 3 years down the road. I'm reasonably sure that once these kids manage to fill their pockets a little bit.. practice goes down the toilet.

tsk tsk.. No discipline.. wait til Flash comes over and teaches you the meaning of consistency. Yeah DRG I'm talking to you!
SinTio
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany871 Posts
April 22 2012 00:04 GMT
#1230
On April 22 2012 08:57 MLG_Adam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 08:55 SinTio wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:50 MLG_Adam wrote:
The best part about this format is nothing is decided yet aside from 2 things:

MKP is in the bracket and Huk is out. Down to the last few matches and everything is on the line


And we only needed (nearly) two days to get to the interesting matches...



As a fan I've been interested the whole time.


In the games yes. Interested in the overall group situation? Not at all. I just don't find a group stage that stretches over 2 days and in the end only 2 out of 8 are out too interesting. Just my opinion, the rest of this arena was top
Testuser
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
6469 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-22 00:05:16
April 22 2012 00:04 GMT
#1231
Adebisi is so likable, and a really good caster/observer to boot. Hope we'll see him more!
https://soundcloud.com/papercranesdk
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
April 22 2012 00:04 GMT
#1232
On April 22 2012 09:02 0ne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 08:59 Aunvilgod wrote:
On April 22 2012 07:57 Azarkon wrote:
On April 22 2012 07:51 lulutheking wrote:
One none Korean and he's getting own... The gap is huge, seems like only Stephano and Naniwa have the level to compete with Koreans, all other foreigners are really far from the average Korean


Average Koreans? Haha.

Naniwa has a shot - his PvP >= MC and Parting, his PvT is good enough to take down Ganzi and Heart, but not MKP. He loses to DRG and Violet, though.

Stephano, no, because this line-up is Terran heavy and Stephano's ZvT isn't at this caliber.


Stephano´s ZvT definately is at this caliber. I mean, Polt is not bad, is he?

Do you remember MMA vs Stephano?


Sure, but MMA does that to a lot of Zergs. Thought Stephano played quite well even though he got his ass kicked
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
MLG_Adam
Profile Joined July 2010
United States994 Posts
April 22 2012 00:04 GMT
#1233
2v2 voting is done! 1st round is MKP+Huk vs DRG + MC and Parting+ Ganzi vs Heart Violet
Twitter: MrAdamAp
Zerothegreat
Profile Joined September 2010
United States787 Posts
April 22 2012 00:04 GMT
#1234
Looks like DRG won't be tied for 2nd now. Nice job to Violet.
snullbar
Profile Joined May 2011
17 Posts
April 22 2012 00:05 GMT
#1235
MLG_Adam who decides the mappool you have? I mean man why use old maps like shakuras and taldarim which are proven to be not the best maps. U really should let artosis run that
Jombozeus
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
China1014 Posts
April 22 2012 00:05 GMT
#1236
Holy shit. Ganzi was doing this shit on his stream last week, going as far as going triple CC vs 1-1-1 in tvt... Hes really getting this to WORK. That was not a mistake, hes been doing this errday errnight, putting zergs in uncomfortable situations and wait for them to fall apart.

Probably the most interesting player out there right now.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 22 2012 00:06 GMT
#1237
On April 22 2012 09:05 snullbar wrote:
MLG_Adam who decides the mappool you have? I mean man why use old maps like shakuras and taldarim which are proven to be not the best maps. U really should let artosis run that


Have to agree that Taldarim and Shakuras have overstayed their welcome in competitive play, but I don't know if Artosis picking the maps is the best idea ^^ he would only pick maps Mech is good on.
mordk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Chile8385 Posts
April 22 2012 00:06 GMT
#1238
On April 22 2012 09:02 Zerothegreat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 08:57 Porcelina wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:46 Zerothegreat wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:43 SiroKO wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:40 Zerothegreat wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:38 SiroKO wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:36 Zerothegreat wrote:
On April 22 2012 08:35 SiroKO wrote:
can't believe we had 1 year of zerg whining about a so called deathball which in fact doesn't stand a chance agaist well microed bl/infestors.



You mean stood a chance against very bad vortexes? And only 2 archons?? =/


Had the zerg either researched neural or learn how to not clump broodlords game would have end the game 10 minutes before, thanks for the reminder.


Microing broods is like trying to micro hydra.... And spreading them out too much makes them easier to be picked off by remaining stalkers for w/e the vortex doesn't get. Too much QQ


Just an observation of a glaring balance flaw.
Zerg is supposed to be ahead in the number of bases because of low cost-efficiency, however broodlords/infestors is the most cost-efficient unit combinaison of the game, only challenged by storm/colossi against bioball in PvT.



If you really want to see balance problems watch Leenock vs HeRo from Ro16 series.... Protoss late game is extremely hard to beat when played correctly. Zerg has to play perfect and even then it's very hard.


Both HerO v Leenock from Code S and Parting v Violet here had play that would be laughed at when this game gets more figured out.

Wings of Liberty is still so young, so unexplored in late game and lacks so much refinement. Claiming racial imbalance in super late game is so silly because there is not enough data on it and because we see new developments whenever a matchup has so far found a stable way to transition there.

At some point this game needs to be figured out. It will probably not be in Wings of Liberty, because any projected release date for Heart of the Swarm will certainly come way before this point. But all the same, at some point we just have to sit back and look at the game develop over a long period of time. Both spectators and professionals like to point out whatever they think to be evidence of imbalance, but even if a game was balanced perfectly, we will go through long periods of things feeling imbalanced because a race had something figured out while the other did not.

Of course it is always going to be a fear that we will never reach that stage. I hope Blizzard will have the integrity and confidence to leave things alone at some point; the whining will be immense but the alternative is that we just remain in a flux where skill and development takes a back seat to micro managing racial win percentages through nerfs and buffs.


I'm not saying the game is imbalanced at all. I'm saying a standard game can shift in favoring one race over another depending on the length of the game. Which isn't really fun gameplay if you get in the mindset: "I have to kill (insert race here) before they get a certain army composition or I lose!" OR "I have to stay alive until I get a certain composition of units to have an easier chance to win."

Edit: Anyways, I'm getting off topic so I will be sticking to what the thread is designed for now.

This has always been like this in BW and it's never been a problem, depending on the builds used and the players involved, some matchups heavily depend on things like this
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
April 22 2012 00:07 GMT
#1239
On April 22 2012 09:02 Ectrid wrote:
are there any restreams with original sound? please keep the internet free... it started so good

Piracy keeps the internet free and ensures there won't be any good content. Please don't do this and support the event if you can.
PS: Asking for restreams might get you banned btw.
Get off my lawn, young punks
Rk0
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands224 Posts
April 22 2012 00:07 GMT
#1240
hahaha canadians sounds so herpy derp 'oot. who is he? what does he cast regularly? 'scooting information' hehe
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