EPTIntroducing Chobo Team League! - Page 15
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
|
Skorbnut
United States20 Posts
| ||
|
howLiN
Portugal1676 Posts
The bronze problem isn't because we don't inherently want bronze players out of the league: all five of us would love if we could keep bronze in the league. The problem is that bronze players usually are too few, inconsistent and uninterested in a persistent system to justify keeping them. However, the decision to keep bronze players or not will depend entirely on having enough of them so we can justify keeping them. | ||
|
Skorbnut
United States20 Posts
There's a reason why daily tournaments go from bronze silver gold to plat and diamond and then to masters+. The jump in skill between leagues becomes larger the higher up you go. That's why SGP worries me, even in a team league sense. If we keep around someone on our team that just hit plat for season 2, and a different team gets a couple new plat players that are high plat and ready to make the jump to diamond, those games will be horrendously one sided throughout the entire season, more so than other league break downs. I feel like I'm not quite getting across the point I want to make. Does anyone understand what I'm getting at? | ||
|
YourBestFriend
Canada92 Posts
| ||
|
Skorbnut
United States20 Posts
First of all, my arguement works against me, since I will soon be reaching platinum if I ladder at the rate I started laddering last week, so keep that in mind. My arguement would disqualify me from competing in this league. I'll start with this: This league was made for noobs. That should be our focus. What is a chobo? A chobo should equate to being a noob pretty much, I'm sure we all agree on that. When is that cut off? Is it by the time you reach a certain league? Is it by a time you reach a certain level of macro skill? I'd argue it's by the time you can macro out of combat sufficiently, knowing when to expand, and how to effectively spend your money, without queuing up a ton of stuff. Which, as I can see from my play beginning to take that form, will be low platinum. Platinum level players are the top 40% of players that play starcraft, right? Why are we focusing on them? Shouldn't we be helping out the newer players? If we're struggling to get bronzies, why don't we (definitely myself included) get off our lazy asses and look for bronzes that are committed to the league? The players from season one could easily reach out and show how much this league helps, and how great the people are that they play. Starcraft 2 has an awesome community. This league has proven that. So why don't we reach out to them, instead of expecting them to come to us? I know we could probably get a decent amount from Day9's chat during dailies. Or, as I'm going to do when I get home tonight, contact Day9, tell him about what we're doing, and ask if he could mention it during a daily? We could also mention it on reddit. Or, we could use it as a tool to try and get people into starcraft. Let's try and use this to expand the scene we know and love. I'm willing to put in the work. I know a few of my guys are too. The admins do enough for the league. Let's try and get the playerbase more active and involved. Wasn't that the point of this league in the first place? Help give people a greater sense of community and help out the SC2 scene to be more sociable/noob friendly. | ||
|
howLiN
Portugal1676 Posts
| ||
|
WarEagle
United States130 Posts
Another suggestion I have is to allow bronze to play but not have a mandatory bronze match. Any bronze who joins a team and practices is likely to be in silver or better by the end of the season anyway. An even more far fetched idea, don't have set league match ups at all. Just let teams submit a line up, and no one knows before hand if they are going up against a bronze that week or a gold. You could keep the ace match set at a Plat. vs Plat. only. This will give the lower league guys more of a chance to play better players in a competitive match, which is a great way to get better. | ||
|
zefreak
United States2731 Posts
Either way, I wouldn't mind transitioning more into a coaching role, but I think plats are just chobos who are more dedicated to the game. And the idea of having non-league set matches (bronze vs silver, etc) is just crazy. | ||
|
zefreak
United States2731 Posts
If you can do this, you will end up in diamond/masters. I went from silver to highish plat (rank 20) using the same build order in all matchups and I STILL make basic mistakes. Platinum players just aren't much different than gold players. | ||
|
WarEagle
United States130 Posts
On June 21 2012 07:40 zefreak wrote: And the idea of having non-league set matches (bronze vs silver, etc) is just crazy. Nah, there are so many people who regularly play in BSG tournaments and they don't complain. And playing against better people makes you a better player yourself. When I first started out playing at the bottom of bronze, I played in a weekly BSG series, getting my ass kicked in the first round every week, and that competition helped drive me up to silver within weeks, and gold not long after. Besides, the bottom of the barrel bronze player is going to be practicing with his teammates to get better, and almost all those teammates are going to be higher leagues than him as well. Is that crazy too? | ||
|
zefreak
United States2731 Posts
On June 21 2012 07:46 WarEagle wrote: Nah, there are so many people who regularly play in BSG tournaments and they don't complain. And playing against better people makes you a better player yourself. When I first started out playing at the bottom of bronze, I played in a weekly BSG series, getting my ass kicked in the first round every week, and that competition helped drive me up to silver within weeks, and gold not long after. Besides, the bottom of the barrel bronze player is going to be practicing with his teammates to get better, and almost all those teammates are going to be higher leagues than him as well. Is that crazy too? I don't see how randomly adding free wins/losses (bronze vs gold) will be an improvement to the format. Playing against better players only matters once you pass a certain threshold of skill. People in bronze don't need to be playing against better players, they need to be learning a simple build order and executing it cleanly. I got from bronze to gold basically just practicing against AI using the filtersc tutorials. If I hadn't done that, and had instead been thrown into matches against much better players and told that it will help me improve, I probably would still be in bronze. | ||
|
Lokishadow
United States71 Posts
Personally, I'd like to see a Black Belt league evolve out of this, for Platinum-Diamond in a more pro-league style to get the better players whistles whetted for moving up and what they'll face if they try to go pro. But CTL is the vehicle to get newbs, nubs, noobs, and chobos out of their suckiness (and I'm still here) and into the better brackets. I'd really like to see more distribution among the leagues, i.e. more bronze matches. Was it due to lack of bronze interest that we only had 1 bronze, but 2 silver and 2 gold matches? Also, while I like biggish teams on paper, it might be easier to manage if each team was 1 bronze, 1 silver, and 1 gold, and they all played a bo3. This would encourage more practice, and if you can show up for one match, there's not much reason you can't show up for 3. Backup players I would suggest all go into a central pool and are assigned to teams when someone doesn't show. The "dropped" player goes into the central pool and waits for reassignment. Dropping 2 or 3 times means you get kicked from CTL permanently. And BM equals dropping back into the pool. My 2 minerals. | ||
|
Dasende
United States864 Posts
On June 21 2012 08:21 Lokishadow wrote: Keep Bronze - Gold. If we have enough Platinum interest, I'd say then consider adding a Platinum tier to the format. Personally, I'd like to see a Black Belt league evolve out of this, for Platinum-Diamond in a more pro-league style to get the better players whistles whetted for moving up and what they'll face if they try to go pro. But CTL is the vehicle to get newbs, nubs, noobs, and chobos out of their suckiness (and I'm still here) and into the better brackets. I'd really like to see more distribution among the leagues, i.e. more bronze matches. Was it due to lack of bronze interest that we only had 1 bronze, but 2 silver and 2 gold matches? Also, while I like biggish teams on paper, it might be easier to manage if each team was 1 bronze, 1 silver, and 1 gold, and they all played a bo3. This would encourage more practice, and if you can show up for one match, there's not much reason you can't show up for 3. Backup players I would suggest all go into a central pool and are assigned to teams when someone doesn't show. The "dropped" player goes into the central pool and waits for reassignment. Dropping 2 or 3 times means you get kicked from CTL permanently. And BM equals dropping back into the pool. My 2 minerals. Most or at least some of the teams have already Platinum players so that is the reason for the consideration of the add. As for bronze matches, yes, lack of bronze interest is the reason why we made it only 1 match. Essentially that's what the teams were, 1 for each match + a backup player. Having them in a central pool makes no sense because they do not get the team environment. The teams MAY get smaller due to a format change but not by much. Bo3's will not happen, you can show up for the 3 matches fine but getting you to send replays to us was basically trying to pull out teeth aside from the rare few. I already went on this in the Season 1 thread, but basically, we said if you send us replays/reports on time and on schedule then we'll think about moving to Bo3 format. This did not happen and things were considerably delayed because of it. Also, we're pretty much going to be giant assholes next season about deadlines. If you don't send it in on time without a proper excuse like: "My country lost internet so I couldn't contact a fellow teammate through e-mail and some idiot crashed into the local cell tower so couldn't do it by phone. I don't know any of my teammates address so mailing it is out of the question and I failed learning how to do smoke signals in boy scouts." (I exaggerate, but you get the point) Anyway, the point is penalties will be handed out with much gusto if deadlines are not met. | ||
|
WarEagle
United States130 Posts
And have you considered using a tournament hosting system instead of havin everyone email admins? | ||
|
Dasende
United States864 Posts
On June 21 2012 08:55 WarEagle wrote: So make it where you don't have to send in replays. Just ask for them if an issue arises and if a player doesn't have them then you can easily say, no replays no proof therefore no issue. And have you considered using a tournament hosting system instead of havin everyone email admins? No, and, no. I don't think any hosting site uses Round Robin which is what we use for group stage. Plus having a hosting system wouldn't work inherently since you need to submit lineups before the match week begins. "Everyone" is 8 people, which are team captains. One of their jobs is to ready everything at the end of the week and send it to us. Something that simple should never be a problem. Play game. e-mail replay to captain. Boom. Done. Captain just puts it all in one e-mail for us and we upload the reps to the bracket. EZPZ | ||
|
lol_Robot
United States66 Posts
On June 21 2012 10:23 Dasende wrote: Play game. e-mail replay to captain. Boom. Done. Captain just puts it all in one e-mail for us and we upload the reps to the bracket. EZPZ And yet...suffice it to say that I will be much less tolerent of truancy this season for team GnR. Regarding bringing in Platinum players, I'm torn. Perhaps a league that is SGP could carry over the current format, with a non-scored Bronze "exhibition match" each week, to provide some semblance of competition, with the reward then being the chance to play as Silver in the scored matches if you work hard enough to earn an upgrade during the season. This upgrade rule should only exist for Bronze to Silver, to maintain team population. Bronzes would get guidance, coaching, and a chance to show their stuff; if they drop out, it doesn't affect their team, but if they improve enough to upgrade, they can step up and help their team. I think that's a pretty decent incentive structure to do what the league aims to do, namely help newbs learn to walk before they can run in a fun, competitive environment; a chance to make the Varsity, so to speak. Thoughts? | ||
|
Chasian18
United States38 Posts
On June 21 2012 10:45 lol_Robot wrote: And yet...suffice it to say that I will be much less tolerent of truancy this season for team GnR. Regarding bringing in Platinum players, I'm torn. Perhaps a league that is SGP could carry over the current format, with a non-scored Bronze "exhibition match" each week, to provide some semblance of competition, with the reward then being the chance to play as Silver in the scored matches if you work hard enough to earn an upgrade during the season. This upgrade rule should only exist for Bronze to Silver, to maintain team population. Bronzes would get guidance, coaching, and a chance to show their stuff; if they drop out, it doesn't affect their team, but if they improve enough to upgrade, they can step up and help their team. I think that's a pretty decent incentive structure to do what the league aims to do, namely help newbs learn to walk before they can run in a fun, competitive environment; a chance to make the Varsity, so to speak. Thoughts? Best idea I've seen yet in this thread, everyone else is set on one way and not the other, but you are the first person to make compromise and increase league size. You my friend, are a hero. | ||
|
GlintFox
United States275 Posts
| ||
|
JeXus
United States6 Posts
| ||
|
WarEagle
United States130 Posts
On June 21 2012 10:23 Dasende wrote: Play game. e-mail replay to captain. Boom. Done. Captain just puts it all in one e-mail for us and we upload the reps to the bracket. EZPZ Believe me, I know as well as anyone that it should be that easy, and I wish everyone would care enough to follow simple rules, but it just doesn't work that way. You get people that just don't care sometimes, and it's way to easy to just say, "oh its just a stupid online gaming league, who cares if I don't send in the replays." It drives me freaking crazy sometimes, but that's just what you get when dealing with gamers online. Also, Binary Beast and Z33K both have round robins followed by playoffs. I can't speak for Z33K but I use BB in the STL and it is completely customizable, albeit a bit finicky at times. As far as the line ups go, I am successfully (arguably) using email, a website, and Binary Beast to run a team league, where I email out updated rosters each week, post all necessary info on the website, schedule the match times in a calendar, and everyone is to post the results to Binary Beast. As I stated above, getting everyone to upload their replays and properly report the matches is the hardest part, when it should be the easiest. Other than that it runs rather smoothly with little need for admins to intervene. Also, I kinda like this idea of putting bronzes on the teams but not having a scored match for them. If they are really striving to get better and are practicing with better players on their team, they will be silver or higher in no time, and ready to contribute. If they lose interest and/or go MIA, its no sweat off anyone's back. | ||
| ||
