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[GSTL] 2012 Season 1 Grand Finals - Page 474

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Everyone knows the drill by now.

Keep it manner and have a good time.

We'll be watching along with you.
udgnim
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8024 Posts
April 08 2012 06:14 GMT
#9461
On April 08 2012 15:11 zergtossy wrote:
Anyone else notice how July looked at the start of his match? It looked as if he had no sleep or he was up all night drinking ha. His play was off


I think it was reported that he was sick
E-Sports is competitive video gaming with a spectator fan base. Do not take the word "Sports" literally.
Biane
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia645 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 06:16:42
April 08 2012 06:16 GMT
#9462
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 08 2012 15:00 LF9 wrote:
You shouldn't comment on this if you didn't see the actual game . . . no amount of outrage generated by this would surprise me short of the internet exploding.

I'm 100% neutral when it comes to MKP, Prime, Startale, etc. and I only watch SC2 to learn about the game and enjoy high level SC2, but the general consensus is that Parting won the deciding battle against MKP and the only thing left for Marineking to do was type "gg". I happen to agree with this consensus, simply because I watched the match and I play SC2 myself. You can argue almost anything you want, but to say Parting could have lost it is insane. It's not his fault that the drop happened and that Blizzard did not include LAN into SC2, nor is it the fault of Prime, Startale, or Parting. It just happened to occur right after Parting won a game deciding battle. LAN or the ability to re-load a game would help, but people are overlooking something, I think; this occurrence foiled Startales entire strategy for winning the finals.

It is clear to see what ST intended to do: send out a solid, versatile player who is a known specialist in PvT yet good enough to win against players that aren't ace-level, so Prime would be forced to send out Marineking and Parting could snipe him. They had the lineup prepared very carefully, and it was insanely obvious that Parting was specifically prepared to take on MKP by the way the game played out, and that the other ST players were not. If they could get an early lead and snipe MKP without using Curious, Bomber, etc. they would demoralize Prime like crazy as well as giving every player in their lineup a match vs a player that have at LEAST a 50% chance to win against. MKP could all-kill ST and they knew it, so they picked one player to train up to eliminate him so the rest of the series would play out; it's easier to train just Parting because he's one player, PvT is one matchup, and he's already a PvT expert. This was their secret weapon, basically. And when the drop happened and the decision was made, Parting was almost certainly demoralized; he had done his job, and now he had to try to RE-SNIPE the ace player AFTER revealing his hand. He had to beat MKP twice, a tall order no doubt. Once the re-game was called, the series was decided. ST was outraged, they did not make a secret about it.

When this backfired and MKP beat Parting's build in round two after getting a 26 minute feel for it, the entire team of ST was demoralized; angry, upset, defeated, DEMORALIZED. They had been cheated, and they knew it. Marineking knew it. Anyone watching could see it in his face after round 2. He knew he had just won a game that never should have been played. Startale was left to throw unprepared knight after knight at the dragon they had already slain. The demoralizing happenings were as much of an effect as the fact that their strategy backfired because instead of sniping Prime's ace, they had drawn him out and had no way to take him back down. That's just how it played out. Had the drop and subsequent poor decision never taken place, Parting might have lost the next game, but the rest of the team would be prepared for their matches and not over-matched. But it was not to be.

Whoever made the decision is just as responsible as Blizzard, perhaps more so, for the tainted final, the giant bold asterisk next to it, and the resulting explosion of anger and outrage from the community. No one will remember this for anything other than the Parting/MKP fiasco, ever. But more unfortunate than Prime's tainted image is MKP's lack of sportsmanship, in my opinion. As I said, I am not a fan of anyone or any team in particular, but Marineking seems like a nice kid. He obviously knew he lost, and had a very guilty look on his face after the rematch. But if he had great sportsmanship, he could have easily circumvented the "impossible" decision made by who-knows-what-morons; a simple SCV rush (re: naniwa) or the like would have righted the wrong, given Parting the much deserved win, and been an ENORMOUS display of good sportsmanship. It most likely would have drawn a standing ovation, and it certainly would have drawn intense respect from anyone intelligent on the internet. The GSTL trophy is tainted, and Prime is tainted for having it. Marineking should have forfeited round two, recognizing his loss and showing great sportsmanship. It didn't HAVE to be this way. However, I have a low opinion of MKP now due to his failure to stand up and refuse to be bound by morally wrong decisions and, probably the fault of Prime, a hunger for victory that overpowers a respect for sportsmanship, the game, and one's fellow players. `He is a great player, but Prime has many very talented players and would have been QUITE capable of going on and defeating ST had Parting's win counted.

I now have a deep skepticism of Prime and Marineking's sportsmanship, and extreme apprehension toward GOMTV, both as an organization, and especially the people at GOMTV themselves who make the decisions. I saw their morals on full display in Las Vegas, and I didn't like what I saw. I didn't like seeing e-sports being disrespected and competitive SC2 be not only made a mockery of, but also upstaged by controversy created by the game's lack of a feature (LAN) which it's predecessor had when it was released in early 1998. I wouldn't want to be in GOM's or Blizzard's shoes right now, and I look forward to a swift emergence by a competitor to GOM (even if it is KeSPA) in Korea. As for Blizzard, they saw the same shitstorm we all did, and also tasted it because about half of it smacked them right in the face, and apparently no amount of public outrage is going to sway their decision on LAN. They know HotS will be bought anyway. They know gamers vote with their wallets while expressing their real opinions via the internet, and that they can get away with selling you a car without an engine for the price of a normal car by telling you it "is hundreds of pounds lighter than the leading model".

As esports becomes bigger (or doesn't), it's important to remember that you, as a consumer, have a right to accountability for issues with the game or with organizations, and to use money as your endorsement. If you are displeased by an event, refuse to purchase a single pass to anything it hosts until it corrects the issue or goes bankrupt. If you are displeased with a game, refuse to purchase any expansions released by the company. While they both speak at events and praise viewers and fans for loving esports and professing to love esports themselves, money is the only language they truly understand and respond to. A 20% drop in sales is worth more than twenty million upset emails. I hope more events are sportsmanlike and fair in the future and avoid making GOM's mistake, and I also hope that Blizzard somehow, someday gets the message and realizes that if they want to market a game which by happenstance has a giant esports market that this type of thing will happen more often with every mistake they make, their brand will be stamped on every public fiasco, and that it is monetarily beneficial to implement any feature that will make it more esports friendly and prevent huge issues at events viewed by people all over the world. They continue to see things happen that could directly be prevented by LAN and I hope that whoever makes THIS decision starts to understand before it's too late.


I though you were making alot of sense, till i saw that sentence (the bolded one).
PresenceSc2
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4032 Posts
April 08 2012 06:17 GMT
#9463
On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:
On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...

The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...

Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified...


"Great production"

Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened.

how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks?


He was nearly at MKP's ramp. And the 14rax or w/e probably weren't all in the main. Parting would have won no matter what everyone is coming up with that MKP would have held. HE had all those units and would have been able to reinforce in the main with it. So it would have been over.
Stephano//HerO//TaeJa//Squirtle//Bomber
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
April 08 2012 06:18 GMT
#9464
Anyone know what the Korean netizens are saying about this one?
closter
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada9 Posts
April 08 2012 06:19 GMT
#9465
On April 08 2012 15:17 Za7oX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:
On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:
On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...

The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...

Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified...


"Great production"

Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened.

how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks?


He was nearly at MKP's ramp. And the 14rax or w/e probably weren't all in the main. Parting would have won no matter what everyone is coming up with that MKP would have held. HE had all those units and would have been able to reinforce in the main with it. So it would have been over.

Unless, Parting does not attack?
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
April 08 2012 06:20 GMT
#9466
On April 08 2012 15:09 vthree wrote:
Actually, since the problem was the pc got disconnected from the local network, wouldn't have matter even if LAN was available. However, some sort of save game feature would have been the most ideal solution.

ok, I covered this before, I'll do it like... one...more...time...

- say it was an internet problem
- then blame it on a hardware problem (AFTER people started complaining about LAN)
- also if it was using cables to connect to the LAN, then how the heck does one get dc'ed from the local network and like...nobody else (other than cables getting taken off the computer, which actually you can't constitute that as a hardware problem)
- if it was using WLAN (wired), then it's more likely (but stupid by IPL).... but I heard from someone that was at the venue that it was NOT wireless.
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
Sikly
Profile Joined June 2011
United States413 Posts
April 08 2012 06:21 GMT
#9467
On April 08 2012 14:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I don't think people quite understand the importance of a terran not letting protoss into his production facilities... even if he had 15 marauders pumping out (actually the ref said 30 supply i think, and 6 supply would come out at those 3 barracks, basically away from the 3 marauders + 24 other supply AKA 15 marauders total in the main/nat)

marauders can't really kill chargelots, and he still had 6 HTs and 6 stalkers. Even if he kited the zealots, the stalkers would be there to chip away at the marauders, and there's still storm and Archons, as well as warping in more units...

Also to note that not all 15 marauders would pop out at the same place (especially since 3 are already away...) and might come out at different times. Even if just a few more came out at a different time, it would make a big difference. Just 10 marauders together isn't enough to kill 16 chargelots. 10 Marauders can't even 1 shot 1 chargelot. How would he fight that off? Protoss can reinforce faster... stalkers and zealots are 2 food and with chronoboost can come out faster than the terran units.

Unless if MKP had a wall or parting didn't press on (what kind of protoss wouldn't? all protoss should know that they're in a bad situation when you're in their production facilities), there's no stopping the protoss from overwhelming you. Protoss had a MUCH bigger army, 6 vikings and 3 marauders isn't going to do shit. MKP would get another round of units in sure, but so would parting, and the advantage should snowball into parting's favor.

I didn't actually watch the game (damn if it was that good, i would be so depressed as parting right now...) but from that screenshot I really think Parting deserved the win.


I don't think people quite understand that 3 rax outside your natural are a very small portion of your production facilities....Also, I think people need to realize that 6 spread from your main to the middle of the map aren't going to make a difference unless the Terran managed to hold the zealots off. And people don't understand that their was only around half a dozen zealots outside of the terrans base, while the rest were still walking across the map.

People are acting like their were 16 chargelots, and 6 ht's morphing into archons already attacking addons in MKP's main while the stalkers were attacking the vikings. That wasn't the case. The vikings would have shot down the warp prism, preventing PartinG from instantly reinforcing. The odds were highly stacked against MKP, but he wasn't 100% dead. He also could use really clever SCV micro to prevent the chargelots from easily getting to the marauders through the production facilities, and with 5(6?) orbitals he could afford to lose some SCV's.

We are also assuming PartinG plays it out perfectly, which we all know doesn't happen EVERY game. They are pros, and in high pressure situations like the GSTL mistakes happen. Look at how bad B4 played the game before. Look at Bomber in the very next game, you can use the argument that he was on tilt from the whole circumstance, but the fact remains that he pretty much 100% had that game won if he just parked his ass in his natural/third, but instead he fucked up and lost purely because he couldn't decide what to do with his ever so slightly inferior army. The fact of the matter is, these arguments I am making might be poor ones, but they are legitimate enough to show that a win for PartinG would not be fair. Either the game doesn't count and you move on to two different players, as others suggested, or you regame, in my opinion.
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
April 08 2012 06:22 GMT
#9468
On April 08 2012 11:07 WArped wrote:
This game should be shown to all those SC2 haters, it's amazing.

Mere seconds before the apocalypse
Akash1223
Profile Joined March 2011
United States91 Posts
April 08 2012 06:23 GMT
#9469
Any objective observer would have to admit that Parting was at a huge advantage and likely would have won the game. It's not 100%, as anything can happen, but it would have taken a string of mistakes from Parting for MKP to get back into an even situation. Game should have been awarded to Parting. I understand how unpopular that would have been as people want always want a regame; but it's supposed to be an objective decision based on the replay, not a subjective one based on the audience.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 06:31:19
April 08 2012 06:23 GMT
#9470
On April 08 2012 15:16 Biane wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 08 2012 15:00 LF9 wrote:
You shouldn't comment on this if you didn't see the actual game . . . no amount of outrage generated by this would surprise me short of the internet exploding.

I'm 100% neutral when it comes to MKP, Prime, Startale, etc. and I only watch SC2 to learn about the game and enjoy high level SC2, but the general consensus is that Parting won the deciding battle against MKP and the only thing left for Marineking to do was type "gg". I happen to agree with this consensus, simply because I watched the match and I play SC2 myself. You can argue almost anything you want, but to say Parting could have lost it is insane. It's not his fault that the drop happened and that Blizzard did not include LAN into SC2, nor is it the fault of Prime, Startale, or Parting. It just happened to occur right after Parting won a game deciding battle. LAN or the ability to re-load a game would help, but people are overlooking something, I think; this occurrence foiled Startales entire strategy for winning the finals.

It is clear to see what ST intended to do: send out a solid, versatile player who is a known specialist in PvT yet good enough to win against players that aren't ace-level, so Prime would be forced to send out Marineking and Parting could snipe him. They had the lineup prepared very carefully, and it was insanely obvious that Parting was specifically prepared to take on MKP by the way the game played out, and that the other ST players were not. If they could get an early lead and snipe MKP without using Curious, Bomber, etc. they would demoralize Prime like crazy as well as giving every player in their lineup a match vs a player that have at LEAST a 50% chance to win against. MKP could all-kill ST and they knew it, so they picked one player to train up to eliminate him so the rest of the series would play out; it's easier to train just Parting because he's one player, PvT is one matchup, and he's already a PvT expert. This was their secret weapon, basically. And when the drop happened and the decision was made, Parting was almost certainly demoralized; he had done his job, and now he had to try to RE-SNIPE the ace player AFTER revealing his hand. He had to beat MKP twice, a tall order no doubt. Once the re-game was called, the series was decided. ST was outraged, they did not make a secret about it.

When this backfired and MKP beat Parting's build in round two after getting a 26 minute feel for it, the entire team of ST was demoralized; angry, upset, defeated, DEMORALIZED. They had been cheated, and they knew it. Marineking knew it. Anyone watching could see it in his face after round 2. He knew he had just won a game that never should have been played. Startale was left to throw unprepared knight after knight at the dragon they had already slain. The demoralizing happenings were as much of an effect as the fact that their strategy backfired because instead of sniping Prime's ace, they had drawn him out and had no way to take him back down. That's just how it played out. Had the drop and subsequent poor decision never taken place, Parting might have lost the next game, but the rest of the team would be prepared for their matches and not over-matched. But it was not to be.

Whoever made the decision is just as responsible as Blizzard, perhaps more so, for the tainted final, the giant bold asterisk next to it, and the resulting explosion of anger and outrage from the community. No one will remember this for anything other than the Parting/MKP fiasco, ever. But more unfortunate than Prime's tainted image is MKP's lack of sportsmanship, in my opinion. As I said, I am not a fan of anyone or any team in particular, but Marineking seems like a nice kid. He obviously knew he lost, and had a very guilty look on his face after the rematch. But if he had great sportsmanship, he could have easily circumvented the "impossible" decision made by who-knows-what-morons; a simple SCV rush (re: naniwa) or the like would have righted the wrong, given Parting the much deserved win, and been an ENORMOUS display of good sportsmanship. It most likely would have drawn a standing ovation, and it certainly would have drawn intense respect from anyone intelligent on the internet. The GSTL trophy is tainted, and Prime is tainted for having it. Marineking should have forfeited round two, recognizing his loss and showing great sportsmanship. It didn't HAVE to be this way. However, I have a low opinion of MKP now due to his failure to stand up and refuse to be bound by morally wrong decisions and, probably the fault of Prime, a hunger for victory that overpowers a respect for sportsmanship, the game, and one's fellow players. `He is a great player, but Prime has many very talented players and would have been QUITE capable of going on and defeating ST had Parting's win counted.

I now have a deep skepticism of Prime and Marineking's sportsmanship, and extreme apprehension toward GOMTV, both as an organization, and especially the people at GOMTV themselves who make the decisions. I saw their morals on full display in Las Vegas, and I didn't like what I saw. I didn't like seeing e-sports being disrespected and competitive SC2 be not only made a mockery of, but also upstaged by controversy created by the game's lack of a feature (LAN) which it's predecessor had when it was released in early 1998. I wouldn't want to be in GOM's or Blizzard's shoes right now, and I look forward to a swift emergence by a competitor to GOM (even if it is KeSPA) in Korea. As for Blizzard, they saw the same shitstorm we all did, and also tasted it because about half of it smacked them right in the face, and apparently no amount of public outrage is going to sway their decision on LAN. They know HotS will be bought anyway. They know gamers vote with their wallets while expressing their real opinions via the internet, and that they can get away with selling you a car without an engine for the price of a normal car by telling you it "is hundreds of pounds lighter than the leading model".

As esports becomes bigger (or doesn't), it's important to remember that you, as a consumer, have a right to accountability for issues with the game or with organizations, and to use money as your endorsement. If you are displeased by an event, refuse to purchase a single pass to anything it hosts until it corrects the issue or goes bankrupt. If you are displeased with a game, refuse to purchase any expansions released by the company. While they both speak at events and praise viewers and fans for loving esports and professing to love esports themselves, money is the only language they truly understand and respond to. A 20% drop in sales is worth more than twenty million upset emails. I hope more events are sportsmanlike and fair in the future and avoid making GOM's mistake, and I also hope that Blizzard somehow, someday gets the message and realizes that if they want to market a game which by happenstance has a giant esports market that this type of thing will happen more often with every mistake they make, their brand will be stamped on every public fiasco, and that it is monetarily beneficial to implement any feature that will make it more esports friendly and prevent huge issues at events viewed by people all over the world. They continue to see things happen that could directly be prevented by LAN and I hope that whoever makes THIS decision starts to understand before it's too late.


I though you were making alot of sense, till i saw that sentence (the bolded one).

Haha good point. There are still those guys that don't understand that you get banned from GSL if you throw a game like that.
GOM asked for the two players to regame, not for MKP to match-fix the shit out of the finals :D
Mysticesper
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1183 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 06:25:46
April 08 2012 06:25 GMT
#9471
Sometimes packet loss happens between the computer and the main network hub.
Sometimes ports do malfunction / get deactivated (happens all the time here at school).
LAN itself does not necessarily mean 100% uptime, 100% of the time. But it is certainly far, far higher than going through the internet.
Wireless is more susceptable to interference, yes, but wired can still have interference that can screw stuff up.
Also, sometimes cables just stop working, but usually that doesn't happen.
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 06:27:38
April 08 2012 06:27 GMT
#9472
On April 08 2012 15:25 Mysticesper wrote:
Sometimes packet loss happens between the computer and the main network hub.
Sometimes ports do malfunction / get deactivated (happens all the time here at school).
LAN itself does not necessarily mean 100% uptime, 100% of the time. But it is certainly far, far higher than going through the internet.
Wireless is more susceptable to interference, yes, but wired can still have interference that can screw stuff up.
Also, sometimes cables just stop working, but usually that doesn't happen.

and suddenly work after 20-30 minutes?

honestly it's still a bit iffy. so I'm still standing by what I said.

(also LAN mode for tournaments won't hurt either ffs)
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
Mysticesper
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1183 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 06:32:56
April 08 2012 06:27 GMT
#9473
I never said what was the exact reason, but those are issues I have come across in my networking experiences both at work, home, and school.

I have no idea how battle.net works to keep a connection. If one lost packet causes an immediate drop from the game, then blizzard should rework how players stay connected. IF MVP's computer was still not working (internet / network access) during the downtime, then yeah, something happened. If it was working like usual after the drop, then just 1 tiny bit of interference screwed it up, because battle.net has no redundant checks for bnet connections.

I know normal lag screens are because one person is delivering information slower than the other player. This wasn't the case here. Something got lost between MKP's computer, the main network hub, and obviously battle.net.
densha
Profile Joined December 2010
United States797 Posts
April 08 2012 06:31 GMT
#9474
All I want to say is that it would take a lot for me to be impressed with terran bio micro and tonight I was nearly in tears watching MKP spread his units and use small groups to snipe templar.

I've never seen so much precise micro in a game and it blew me away. This is the sort of thing that takes SC2 to the next level.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
April 08 2012 06:31 GMT
#9475
On April 08 2012 15:23 Akash1223 wrote:
Any objective observer would have to admit that Parting was at a huge advantage and likely would have won the game. It's not 100%, as anything can happen, but it would have taken a string of mistakes from Parting for MKP to get back into an even situation. Game should have been awarded to Parting. I understand how unpopular that would have been as people want always want a regame; but it's supposed to be an objective decision based on the replay, not a subjective one based on the audience.

People still need to understand that giving a default win is no laughing matter. It's much more critical and hard to do than calling a regame, which will be the decision called 99% of the time. I have actually no example off the top of my head of a game given to the advantaged player instead of a regame, it would take probably a big advantage in bases AND units AND tech to call it. In fact I would say that it's to the point where the losing player would pretty much have to say himself that he was dead as shit and admit to his loss from his own.
It was certainly not the case for MKP. He was still playing to win at that point, a called loss for him would have been at least equally outrageous.
Devolved
Profile Joined April 2008
United States2753 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-08 06:33:39
April 08 2012 06:33 GMT
#9476
For some reason this victory feels a bit hollow since MKP won out after he had all but lost his first game and then was given a re-game. I don't blame GSL. They had to make a decision and since there was a slim chance MKP could have come back they decided for the re-game. The problem is that that chance was very small and this entire situation could have been avoided with LAN support.

Blizzard has really dropped the ball. They are trying to create a game that can be competitive on a professional level yet intentionally make it possible for disasters to happen in the middle of championship matches. These teams/players fought so hard to get to this point and then are screwed because of Blizzard's no-LAN policy. I really feel bad for StarTale. Imagine how differently this would have played out had MKP not disconnected.
$♥$
Mysticesper
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1183 Posts
April 08 2012 06:33 GMT
#9477
On April 08 2012 15:31 ZenithM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 15:23 Akash1223 wrote:
Any objective observer would have to admit that Parting was at a huge advantage and likely would have won the game. It's not 100%, as anything can happen, but it would have taken a string of mistakes from Parting for MKP to get back into an even situation. Game should have been awarded to Parting. I understand how unpopular that would have been as people want always want a regame; but it's supposed to be an objective decision based on the replay, not a subjective one based on the audience.

People still need to understand that giving a default win is no laughing matter. It's much more critical and hard to do than calling a regame, which will be the decision called 99% of the time. I have actually no example off the top of my head of a game given to the advantaged player instead of a regame, it would take probably a big advantage in bases AND units AND tech to call it. In fact I would say that it's to the point where the losing player would pretty much have to say himself that he was dead as shit and admit to his loss from his own.
It was certainly not the case for MKP. He was still playing to win at that point, a called loss for him would have been at least equally outrageous.


TSL 3 delivered a win to one of the players. Forgot the game, but it was done in TSL 3.
Biane
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia645 Posts
April 08 2012 06:33 GMT
#9478
On April 08 2012 15:31 ZenithM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 15:23 Akash1223 wrote:
Any objective observer would have to admit that Parting was at a huge advantage and likely would have won the game. It's not 100%, as anything can happen, but it would have taken a string of mistakes from Parting for MKP to get back into an even situation. Game should have been awarded to Parting. I understand how unpopular that would have been as people want always want a regame; but it's supposed to be an objective decision based on the replay, not a subjective one based on the audience.

People still need to understand that giving a default win is no laughing matter. It's much more critical and hard to do than calling a regame, which will be the decision called 99% of the time. I have actually no example off the top of my head of a game given to the advantaged player instead of a regame, it would take probably a big advantage in bases AND units AND tech to call it. In fact I would say that it's to the point where the losing player would pretty much have to say himself that he was dead as shit and admit to his loss from his own.
It was certainly not the case for MKP. He was still playing to win at that point, a called loss for him would have been at least equally outrageous.


Don't quote me on this as my sc2 knowledge is rather rusty but wouldnt that boxer game (vs nightend i think?) in TSL3 be an example of awarding a win to an advantaged player? granted its a different type of tournament though.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
April 08 2012 06:35 GMT
#9479
On April 08 2012 15:33 Mysticesper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 15:31 ZenithM wrote:
On April 08 2012 15:23 Akash1223 wrote:
Any objective observer would have to admit that Parting was at a huge advantage and likely would have won the game. It's not 100%, as anything can happen, but it would have taken a string of mistakes from Parting for MKP to get back into an even situation. Game should have been awarded to Parting. I understand how unpopular that would have been as people want always want a regame; but it's supposed to be an objective decision based on the replay, not a subjective one based on the audience.

People still need to understand that giving a default win is no laughing matter. It's much more critical and hard to do than calling a regame, which will be the decision called 99% of the time. I have actually no example off the top of my head of a game given to the advantaged player instead of a regame, it would take probably a big advantage in bases AND units AND tech to call it. In fact I would say that it's to the point where the losing player would pretty much have to say himself that he was dead as shit and admit to his loss from his own.
It was certainly not the case for MKP. He was still playing to win at that point, a called loss for him would have been at least equally outrageous.


TSL 3 delivered a win to one of the players. Forgot the game, but it was done in TSL 3.


I really like how they handled that, too. Too bad the situation made it so that a similar way of judging things wasn't doable since it was a big live event.
musai
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada552 Posts
April 08 2012 06:38 GMT
#9480
On April 08 2012 15:33 Mysticesper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 15:31 ZenithM wrote:
On April 08 2012 15:23 Akash1223 wrote:
Any objective observer would have to admit that Parting was at a huge advantage and likely would have won the game. It's not 100%, as anything can happen, but it would have taken a string of mistakes from Parting for MKP to get back into an even situation. Game should have been awarded to Parting. I understand how unpopular that would have been as people want always want a regame; but it's supposed to be an objective decision based on the replay, not a subjective one based on the audience.

People still need to understand that giving a default win is no laughing matter. It's much more critical and hard to do than calling a regame, which will be the decision called 99% of the time. I have actually no example off the top of my head of a game given to the advantaged player instead of a regame, it would take probably a big advantage in bases AND units AND tech to call it. In fact I would say that it's to the point where the losing player would pretty much have to say himself that he was dead as shit and admit to his loss from his own.
It was certainly not the case for MKP. He was still playing to win at that point, a called loss for him would have been at least equally outrageous.


TSL 3 delivered a win to one of the players. Forgot the game, but it was done in TSL 3.


think it was boxer vs someone else hmmm
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