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Everyone knows the drill by now.
Keep it manner and have a good time.
We'll be watching along with you. |
On April 16 2012 01:53 SolidSMD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 09:57 Whitewing wrote:On April 10 2012 08:40 Kettchup wrote:
After looking at the replay, there are 0 medivacs on the field just as I remembered, don't know where Mystgun is pulling things from. You are correct, he had no medivacs at all. The relevant point here is that Parting might not have won immediately, but he was pretty much guaranteed a win in 2 minutes, he had just warped in a ton of high templar and MKP had no long term units like medivacs or ghosts at all, let alone any units that can deal with his 16 zealots and stalkers. Further, MKP can't spend his bank that fast (as evidenced by the fact that he had a bank in the first place, I think we'd all give him the credit and say he wasn't spending it because he didn't have the production, not because his mechanics are terrible) and parting is on 3-4 mining bases (his 5th, 4th and 3rd all have tons of money, his natural had a little mining left), the only reason he doesn't have a bank is that he's actually spending his money well with absurd production rates. Oh yeah? That bank MKP had? He was at 500 minerals. So... parting, who is beating MKP's army all game with a lower suppy count, now has a 30 supply lead with a far superior composition, is macro'ing better, and he isn't going to win in 2 minutes? The only way MKP wins that game is if parting falls out of his chair. Any random NA diamond level player or better could take over from that position and win. BTW, MKP had 71 scvs, 3 marauders and 6 vikings, so we know exactly how much supply of stuff he had in production: 110 supply - 71 - 6 - 12 = 21 supply in production (some of which is in the barracks that Parting is attacking). I don't know where people are getting this idea that MKP would suddenly be able to produce a big enough force to beat Parting in the next minute, what, do they think Parting is gonna stop making units? We also know how much production Parting has available to him, and the fact that Parting is on 3 fully mining bases. His chances of victory were very nearly 0. You can hear Liquid'Nony and TLO shouting Bullshit when they announced the regame (a friend of mine was sitting with them when they yelled it and identified them as the source of the shout), and a lot of tweets from progamers went out at the same time also saying that Parting should have been given the win (like Major, who I don't think anyone would accuse of a bias in favor of the Protoss player). I don't blame MKP or Prime for this situation btw, obviously it's their job to fight for a regame and try to win. Gom screwed over Startale really hard here. this... I finally watched these vods and didn't understand a tiny bit why they'd give a regame for MKP, i feel this decision was made for entertainment value, with startale up 3-1 and MKP/maru/bb gone prime didn't stand a chance. Everyone knows the current PvTbalance is T scary early game, P scary late game. With an advantage as parting had in the late game, there is like 1% chance MKP could get back (also note that the majority of his army, the vikings are useless vs those chargelots). I do not get this decision at all, so upset. The only rather acceptable thing to do in MKP's favor would be making it a best of 3 between parting and MKP with Parting up 1-0. Gom dropped the ball there. I wasn't biased at the start of these finals towards either Prime or Startale, but Startale won an extra fan here, incredible team and the true winner of this GSTL. GG
Maru or Creator could've 4-0'd ST just as easily. Even with MarineKing out ST would have lost probably.. you know, like they did earlier this season.
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On April 16 2012 01:56 BlackGosu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 01:53 SolidSMD wrote:On April 10 2012 09:57 Whitewing wrote:On April 10 2012 08:40 Kettchup wrote:
After looking at the replay, there are 0 medivacs on the field just as I remembered, don't know where Mystgun is pulling things from. You are correct, he had no medivacs at all. The relevant point here is that Parting might not have won immediately, but he was pretty much guaranteed a win in 2 minutes, he had just warped in a ton of high templar and MKP had no long term units like medivacs or ghosts at all, let alone any units that can deal with his 16 zealots and stalkers. Further, MKP can't spend his bank that fast (as evidenced by the fact that he had a bank in the first place, I think we'd all give him the credit and say he wasn't spending it because he didn't have the production, not because his mechanics are terrible) and parting is on 3-4 mining bases (his 5th, 4th and 3rd all have tons of money, his natural had a little mining left), the only reason he doesn't have a bank is that he's actually spending his money well with absurd production rates. Oh yeah? That bank MKP had? He was at 500 minerals. So... parting, who is beating MKP's army all game with a lower suppy count, now has a 30 supply lead with a far superior composition, is macro'ing better, and he isn't going to win in 2 minutes? The only way MKP wins that game is if parting falls out of his chair. Any random NA diamond level player or better could take over from that position and win. BTW, MKP had 71 scvs, 3 marauders and 6 vikings, so we know exactly how much supply of stuff he had in production: 110 supply - 71 - 6 - 12 = 21 supply in production (some of which is in the barracks that Parting is attacking). I don't know where people are getting this idea that MKP would suddenly be able to produce a big enough force to beat Parting in the next minute, what, do they think Parting is gonna stop making units? We also know how much production Parting has available to him, and the fact that Parting is on 3 fully mining bases. His chances of victory were very nearly 0. You can hear Liquid'Nony and TLO shouting Bullshit when they announced the regame (a friend of mine was sitting with them when they yelled it and identified them as the source of the shout), and a lot of tweets from progamers went out at the same time also saying that Parting should have been given the win (like Major, who I don't think anyone would accuse of a bias in favor of the Protoss player). I don't blame MKP or Prime for this situation btw, obviously it's their job to fight for a regame and try to win. Gom screwed over Startale really hard here. this... I finally watched these vods and didn't understand a tiny bit why they'd give a regame for MKP, i feel this decision was made for entertainment value, with startale up 3-1 and MKP/maru/bb gone prime didn't stand a chance. Everyone knows the current PvTbalance is T scary early game, P scary late game. With an advantage as parting had in the late game, there is like 1% chance MKP could get back (also note that the majority of his army, the vikings are useless vs those chargelots). I do not get this decision at all, so upset. The only rather acceptable thing to do in MKP's favor would be making it a best of 3 between parting and MKP with Parting up 1-0. Gom dropped the ball there. I wasn't biased at the start of these finals towards either Prime or Startale, but Startale won an extra fan here, incredible team and the true winner of this GSTL. GG then why did marineking reverse all kill? obvious hint prime was meant to win
because parting was one of startale's best chances of killing marineking, the only guy after MKP that would be able to pull something off would be byunn/ghostking, but he's not at that level yet, he's making an amazing comeback i have to say.
Anyway, you have to count in the demoralizing factor, how would you feel if your team basicly took out the biggest(/only) threat of prime and then suddenly that player gets a second life, dafuq?
At this moment in the metagame of PvT the hard part of toss is to stay alive in the early-midgame without falling behind in upgrades/economy, getting this far into the game, MKP's chances were already smaller cause parting was doing really well, then suddenly he gets behind in such a position? no fucking chance he wins it 
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On April 16 2012 02:06 SolidSMD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 01:56 BlackGosu wrote:On April 16 2012 01:53 SolidSMD wrote:On April 10 2012 09:57 Whitewing wrote:On April 10 2012 08:40 Kettchup wrote:
After looking at the replay, there are 0 medivacs on the field just as I remembered, don't know where Mystgun is pulling things from. You are correct, he had no medivacs at all. The relevant point here is that Parting might not have won immediately, but he was pretty much guaranteed a win in 2 minutes, he had just warped in a ton of high templar and MKP had no long term units like medivacs or ghosts at all, let alone any units that can deal with his 16 zealots and stalkers. Further, MKP can't spend his bank that fast (as evidenced by the fact that he had a bank in the first place, I think we'd all give him the credit and say he wasn't spending it because he didn't have the production, not because his mechanics are terrible) and parting is on 3-4 mining bases (his 5th, 4th and 3rd all have tons of money, his natural had a little mining left), the only reason he doesn't have a bank is that he's actually spending his money well with absurd production rates. Oh yeah? That bank MKP had? He was at 500 minerals. So... parting, who is beating MKP's army all game with a lower suppy count, now has a 30 supply lead with a far superior composition, is macro'ing better, and he isn't going to win in 2 minutes? The only way MKP wins that game is if parting falls out of his chair. Any random NA diamond level player or better could take over from that position and win. BTW, MKP had 71 scvs, 3 marauders and 6 vikings, so we know exactly how much supply of stuff he had in production: 110 supply - 71 - 6 - 12 = 21 supply in production (some of which is in the barracks that Parting is attacking). I don't know where people are getting this idea that MKP would suddenly be able to produce a big enough force to beat Parting in the next minute, what, do they think Parting is gonna stop making units? We also know how much production Parting has available to him, and the fact that Parting is on 3 fully mining bases. His chances of victory were very nearly 0. You can hear Liquid'Nony and TLO shouting Bullshit when they announced the regame (a friend of mine was sitting with them when they yelled it and identified them as the source of the shout), and a lot of tweets from progamers went out at the same time also saying that Parting should have been given the win (like Major, who I don't think anyone would accuse of a bias in favor of the Protoss player). I don't blame MKP or Prime for this situation btw, obviously it's their job to fight for a regame and try to win. Gom screwed over Startale really hard here. this... I finally watched these vods and didn't understand a tiny bit why they'd give a regame for MKP, i feel this decision was made for entertainment value, with startale up 3-1 and MKP/maru/bb gone prime didn't stand a chance. Everyone knows the current PvTbalance is T scary early game, P scary late game. With an advantage as parting had in the late game, there is like 1% chance MKP could get back (also note that the majority of his army, the vikings are useless vs those chargelots). I do not get this decision at all, so upset. The only rather acceptable thing to do in MKP's favor would be making it a best of 3 between parting and MKP with Parting up 1-0. Gom dropped the ball there. I wasn't biased at the start of these finals towards either Prime or Startale, but Startale won an extra fan here, incredible team and the true winner of this GSTL. GG then why did marineking reverse all kill? obvious hint prime was meant to win because parting was one of startale's best chances of killing marineking, the only guy after MKP that would be able to pull something off would be byunn/ghostking, but he's not at that level yet, he's making an amazing comeback i have to say. Anyway, you have to count in the demoralizing factor, how would you feel if your team basicly took out the biggest(/only) threat of prime and then suddenly that player gets a second life, dafuq? At this moment in the metagame of PvT the hard part of toss is to stay alive in the early-midgame without falling behind in upgrades/economy, getting this far into the game, MKP's chances were already smaller cause parting was doing really well, then suddenly he gets behind in such a position? no fucking chance he wins it
Why do people keep saying this? If it wasn't for the weird GSTL format ST would have never gotten to the finals, because they had been eliminated by Prime earlier on. Without MarineKing taking any games.
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On April 16 2012 03:22 noddy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 02:06 SolidSMD wrote:On April 16 2012 01:56 BlackGosu wrote:On April 16 2012 01:53 SolidSMD wrote:On April 10 2012 09:57 Whitewing wrote:On April 10 2012 08:40 Kettchup wrote:
After looking at the replay, there are 0 medivacs on the field just as I remembered, don't know where Mystgun is pulling things from. You are correct, he had no medivacs at all. The relevant point here is that Parting might not have won immediately, but he was pretty much guaranteed a win in 2 minutes, he had just warped in a ton of high templar and MKP had no long term units like medivacs or ghosts at all, let alone any units that can deal with his 16 zealots and stalkers. Further, MKP can't spend his bank that fast (as evidenced by the fact that he had a bank in the first place, I think we'd all give him the credit and say he wasn't spending it because he didn't have the production, not because his mechanics are terrible) and parting is on 3-4 mining bases (his 5th, 4th and 3rd all have tons of money, his natural had a little mining left), the only reason he doesn't have a bank is that he's actually spending his money well with absurd production rates. Oh yeah? That bank MKP had? He was at 500 minerals. So... parting, who is beating MKP's army all game with a lower suppy count, now has a 30 supply lead with a far superior composition, is macro'ing better, and he isn't going to win in 2 minutes? The only way MKP wins that game is if parting falls out of his chair. Any random NA diamond level player or better could take over from that position and win. BTW, MKP had 71 scvs, 3 marauders and 6 vikings, so we know exactly how much supply of stuff he had in production: 110 supply - 71 - 6 - 12 = 21 supply in production (some of which is in the barracks that Parting is attacking). I don't know where people are getting this idea that MKP would suddenly be able to produce a big enough force to beat Parting in the next minute, what, do they think Parting is gonna stop making units? We also know how much production Parting has available to him, and the fact that Parting is on 3 fully mining bases. His chances of victory were very nearly 0. You can hear Liquid'Nony and TLO shouting Bullshit when they announced the regame (a friend of mine was sitting with them when they yelled it and identified them as the source of the shout), and a lot of tweets from progamers went out at the same time also saying that Parting should have been given the win (like Major, who I don't think anyone would accuse of a bias in favor of the Protoss player). I don't blame MKP or Prime for this situation btw, obviously it's their job to fight for a regame and try to win. Gom screwed over Startale really hard here. this... I finally watched these vods and didn't understand a tiny bit why they'd give a regame for MKP, i feel this decision was made for entertainment value, with startale up 3-1 and MKP/maru/bb gone prime didn't stand a chance. Everyone knows the current PvTbalance is T scary early game, P scary late game. With an advantage as parting had in the late game, there is like 1% chance MKP could get back (also note that the majority of his army, the vikings are useless vs those chargelots). I do not get this decision at all, so upset. The only rather acceptable thing to do in MKP's favor would be making it a best of 3 between parting and MKP with Parting up 1-0. Gom dropped the ball there. I wasn't biased at the start of these finals towards either Prime or Startale, but Startale won an extra fan here, incredible team and the true winner of this GSTL. GG then why did marineking reverse all kill? obvious hint prime was meant to win because parting was one of startale's best chances of killing marineking, the only guy after MKP that would be able to pull something off would be byunn/ghostking, but he's not at that level yet, he's making an amazing comeback i have to say. Anyway, you have to count in the demoralizing factor, how would you feel if your team basicly took out the biggest(/only) threat of prime and then suddenly that player gets a second life, dafuq? At this moment in the metagame of PvT the hard part of toss is to stay alive in the early-midgame without falling behind in upgrades/economy, getting this far into the game, MKP's chances were already smaller cause parting was doing really well, then suddenly he gets behind in such a position? no fucking chance he wins it Why do people keep saying this? If it wasn't for the weird GSTL format ST would have never gotten to the finals, because they had been eliminated by Prime earlier on. Without MarineKing taking any games.
Agreed. Surprised this discussion is still going on, but it really is a crappy format if one team only needs to lose once and the other team lose 2-3 times before they're out.
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I just hate how Marineking is hated by ST now, and Prime and ST dont talk to each other anymore after being friends before the GSTL. It's so sad.
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On April 16 2012 02:01 noddy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 01:53 SolidSMD wrote:On April 10 2012 09:57 Whitewing wrote:On April 10 2012 08:40 Kettchup wrote:
After looking at the replay, there are 0 medivacs on the field just as I remembered, don't know where Mystgun is pulling things from. You are correct, he had no medivacs at all. The relevant point here is that Parting might not have won immediately, but he was pretty much guaranteed a win in 2 minutes, he had just warped in a ton of high templar and MKP had no long term units like medivacs or ghosts at all, let alone any units that can deal with his 16 zealots and stalkers. Further, MKP can't spend his bank that fast (as evidenced by the fact that he had a bank in the first place, I think we'd all give him the credit and say he wasn't spending it because he didn't have the production, not because his mechanics are terrible) and parting is on 3-4 mining bases (his 5th, 4th and 3rd all have tons of money, his natural had a little mining left), the only reason he doesn't have a bank is that he's actually spending his money well with absurd production rates. Oh yeah? That bank MKP had? He was at 500 minerals. So... parting, who is beating MKP's army all game with a lower suppy count, now has a 30 supply lead with a far superior composition, is macro'ing better, and he isn't going to win in 2 minutes? The only way MKP wins that game is if parting falls out of his chair. Any random NA diamond level player or better could take over from that position and win. BTW, MKP had 71 scvs, 3 marauders and 6 vikings, so we know exactly how much supply of stuff he had in production: 110 supply - 71 - 6 - 12 = 21 supply in production (some of which is in the barracks that Parting is attacking). I don't know where people are getting this idea that MKP would suddenly be able to produce a big enough force to beat Parting in the next minute, what, do they think Parting is gonna stop making units? We also know how much production Parting has available to him, and the fact that Parting is on 3 fully mining bases. His chances of victory were very nearly 0. You can hear Liquid'Nony and TLO shouting Bullshit when they announced the regame (a friend of mine was sitting with them when they yelled it and identified them as the source of the shout), and a lot of tweets from progamers went out at the same time also saying that Parting should have been given the win (like Major, who I don't think anyone would accuse of a bias in favor of the Protoss player). I don't blame MKP or Prime for this situation btw, obviously it's their job to fight for a regame and try to win. Gom screwed over Startale really hard here. this... I finally watched these vods and didn't understand a tiny bit why they'd give a regame for MKP, i feel this decision was made for entertainment value, with startale up 3-1 and MKP/maru/bb gone prime didn't stand a chance. Everyone knows the current PvTbalance is T scary early game, P scary late game. With an advantage as parting had in the late game, there is like 1% chance MKP could get back (also note that the majority of his army, the vikings are useless vs those chargelots). I do not get this decision at all, so upset. The only rather acceptable thing to do in MKP's favor would be making it a best of 3 between parting and MKP with Parting up 1-0. Gom dropped the ball there. I wasn't biased at the start of these finals towards either Prime or Startale, but Startale won an extra fan here, incredible team and the true winner of this GSTL. GG Maru or Creator could've 4-0'd ST just as easily. Even with MarineKing out ST would have lost probably.. you know, like they did earlier this season.
...Maru played and lost. So that's not a relevant argument.
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On April 16 2012 02:01 noddy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 01:53 SolidSMD wrote:On April 10 2012 09:57 Whitewing wrote:On April 10 2012 08:40 Kettchup wrote:
After looking at the replay, there are 0 medivacs on the field just as I remembered, don't know where Mystgun is pulling things from. You are correct, he had no medivacs at all. The relevant point here is that Parting might not have won immediately, but he was pretty much guaranteed a win in 2 minutes, he had just warped in a ton of high templar and MKP had no long term units like medivacs or ghosts at all, let alone any units that can deal with his 16 zealots and stalkers. Further, MKP can't spend his bank that fast (as evidenced by the fact that he had a bank in the first place, I think we'd all give him the credit and say he wasn't spending it because he didn't have the production, not because his mechanics are terrible) and parting is on 3-4 mining bases (his 5th, 4th and 3rd all have tons of money, his natural had a little mining left), the only reason he doesn't have a bank is that he's actually spending his money well with absurd production rates. Oh yeah? That bank MKP had? He was at 500 minerals. So... parting, who is beating MKP's army all game with a lower suppy count, now has a 30 supply lead with a far superior composition, is macro'ing better, and he isn't going to win in 2 minutes? The only way MKP wins that game is if parting falls out of his chair. Any random NA diamond level player or better could take over from that position and win. BTW, MKP had 71 scvs, 3 marauders and 6 vikings, so we know exactly how much supply of stuff he had in production: 110 supply - 71 - 6 - 12 = 21 supply in production (some of which is in the barracks that Parting is attacking). I don't know where people are getting this idea that MKP would suddenly be able to produce a big enough force to beat Parting in the next minute, what, do they think Parting is gonna stop making units? We also know how much production Parting has available to him, and the fact that Parting is on 3 fully mining bases. His chances of victory were very nearly 0. You can hear Liquid'Nony and TLO shouting Bullshit when they announced the regame (a friend of mine was sitting with them when they yelled it and identified them as the source of the shout), and a lot of tweets from progamers went out at the same time also saying that Parting should have been given the win (like Major, who I don't think anyone would accuse of a bias in favor of the Protoss player). I don't blame MKP or Prime for this situation btw, obviously it's their job to fight for a regame and try to win. Gom screwed over Startale really hard here. this... I finally watched these vods and didn't understand a tiny bit why they'd give a regame for MKP, i feel this decision was made for entertainment value, with startale up 3-1 and MKP/maru/bb gone prime didn't stand a chance. Everyone knows the current PvTbalance is T scary early game, P scary late game. With an advantage as parting had in the late game, there is like 1% chance MKP could get back (also note that the majority of his army, the vikings are useless vs those chargelots). I do not get this decision at all, so upset. The only rather acceptable thing to do in MKP's favor would be making it a best of 3 between parting and MKP with Parting up 1-0. Gom dropped the ball there. I wasn't biased at the start of these finals towards either Prime or Startale, but Startale won an extra fan here, incredible team and the true winner of this GSTL. GG Maru or Creator could've 4-0'd ST just as easily. Even with MarineKing out ST would have lost probably.. you know, like they did earlier this season.
like poster above me says, maru was out and for someone to oppose a big threat, creator is very good, agreed, but he will not be able to compete with curious in zvp, clean win. As for byunn, the main reason he got so many kills in the earlier match is because he came out of nowhere, didn't play in gsl for half a year, ofcourse startale wasn't prepared for him, + he used very gimmicky play in some of the games and some of them turned out very close. So basicly my point is, there was no one in prime's line-up left that startale would have much problems with beating. (Especially when Prime would be behind 3-1, so even if they are able to beat parting (which isn't too likely since his PvT and PvP are awesome), startale still has 3 players to beat 2, seems pretty onesided to me).
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On April 16 2012 04:06 SpecFire wrote:
I just hate how Marineking is hated by ST now, and Prime and ST dont talk to each other anymore after being friends before the GSTL. It's so sad.
Source?
MKP had no say in the decision at all, neither did the coaches or players or anything. It was the designated admins using rules that were in place before the game took place.
Why would they blame MKP or Prime?
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United States7483 Posts
On April 16 2012 05:07 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 04:06 SpecFire wrote:
I just hate how Marineking is hated by ST now, and Prime and ST dont talk to each other anymore after being friends before the GSTL. It's so sad. Source? MKP had no say in the decision at all, neither did the coaches or players or anything. It was the designated admins using rules that were in place before the game took place. Why would they blame MKP or Prime?
Actually, the referees asked the coaches and Gerrard fought for a regame.
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On April 16 2012 05:07 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 04:06 SpecFire wrote:
I just hate how Marineking is hated by ST now, and Prime and ST dont talk to each other anymore after being friends before the GSTL. It's so sad. Source? MKP had no say in the decision at all, neither did the coaches or players or anything. It was the designated admins using rules that were in place before the game took place. Why would they blame MKP or Prime?
Source is in the GSL nomination show last night.
During July's turn, he mentioned how the teams never talk or even wave at each other anymore
Then when it was MKP's turn, he mentioned how he was friends with a lot of the ST members, but after GSTL, he went up to them, but heard ST players talking smack about him. So he was quite shaken up mentally, and caused him to play not as well the next day in the IPL.
Quite sad to see really, as the players are just doing their job.
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EPT
