EPTFUCK YEAH MKP!!!
[GSTL] 2012 Season 1 Grand Finals - Page 491
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Everyone knows the drill by now. Keep it manner and have a good time. We'll be watching along with you. | ||
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KiNGxXx
7928 Posts
FUCK YEAH MKP!!! | ||
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Boiler Bandsman
United States391 Posts
Then after a 5-minute break, suddenly they're, and I quote again from Khaldor, "really glad they made this decision". GOM should have the guts to stand by their own decisions and let their casters speak their minds, rather than forcing them to spin it how GOM wants. I don't blame the casters for trying to hype the regame, but I sincerely doubt their honest opinions were changed in that convenient 5-minute break. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On April 11 2012 05:18 Boiler Bandsman wrote: Did anyone else notice the pathetic spin control that Wolf and Khaldor were obviously ordered to do? They stated while the decision was still being made that, that in their opinion, the game should go to PartinG. Quote from Khaldor: "I think that's [awarding it to PartinG] the only decision they can make." Then after a 5-minute break, suddenly they're, and I quote again from Khaldor, "really glad they made this decision". GOM should have the guts to stand by their own decisions and let their casters speak their minds, rather than forcing them to spin it how GOM wants. I don't blame the casters for trying to hype the regame, but I sincerely doubt their honest opinions were changed in that convenient 5-minute break. Um, it's the casters job to support GOM's decision, regardless of whether they agree with it. They honestly were out of line even stating an opinion on it before the decision was made. | ||
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Figgy
Canada1788 Posts
On April 11 2012 05:53 Whitewing wrote: Um, it's the casters job to support GOM's decision, regardless of whether they agree with it. They honestly were out of line even stating an opinion on it before the decision was made. I couldn't agree more with Whitewing. Don't forget as well that casters have been outright fired for complaining about the tournaments they are hosting before... not saying that it would happen here but it's their job to support the company that pays them. | ||
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pak150
United States531 Posts
On April 11 2012 05:53 Whitewing wrote: Um, it's the casters job to support GOM's decision, regardless of whether they agree with it. They honestly were out of line even stating an opinion on it before the decision was made. I disagree -- it's the casters' job to provide the viewers with detailed and thoughtful analysis about the game they're watching. That's why I listen to them. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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IMPrime
United States715 Posts
People point to mkp vs bomber saying that comebacks can happen. But tvt is much different than tvp. I'd like to know how many tvp's there are where the terran is down 30 supply and still wins the game. | ||
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Surgical_Strike
United States72 Posts
On April 11 2012 16:25 IMPrime wrote: Here's a question that I'd like answered. People point to mkp vs bomber saying that comebacks can happen. But tvt is much different than tvp. I'd like to know how many tvp's there are where the terran is down 30 supply and still wins the game. when each production cycle is 30+ supply each 25-30 game seconds(which is like what 15 real seconds?) its not such a big deal... also 8 of that was workers ... so 22 supply which isnt much to a 5 base terran with 5-6 orbitals. those orbitals almost count for 2 saturated bases of minerals | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On April 11 2012 17:06 Surgical_Strike wrote: when each production cycle is 30+ supply each 25-30 game seconds(which is like what 15 real seconds?) its not such a big deal... also 8 of that was workers ... so 22 supply which isnt much to a 5 base terran with 5-6 orbitals. those orbitals almost count for 2 saturated bases of minerals There's also the fact that before the colossi MKP had been just straight up outmicro-ing Parting. Aslong as he stabalized(which given the info we have postevent seems likely) I'd say MKP had a decent enough chance to. I mean the only reason he almost lost was how he expected to be able to just bio his way through the colossi(I cannot for the life of me understand how he expected to be able to do that) and he had finally made enough vikings to neutralize the colossi threat. Apart from the very effective colossi transition, he had been trading and winning fights left and right. So yeah, parting had an advantage, but with the 5 OCs, the huge amount of production and MKP's raw micro potential, I feel more now than live that he was still in this. Also about the bomber game, it wasn't so much a comeback as a huge fuckup by bomber, making a crucial wrong mistake. | ||
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Rielle
Australia91 Posts
On April 11 2012 17:06 Surgical_Strike wrote: when each production cycle is 30+ supply each 25-30 game seconds(which is like what 15 real seconds?) its not such a big deal... also 8 of that was workers ... so 22 supply which isnt much to a 5 base terran with 5-6 orbitals. those orbitals almost count for 2 saturated bases of minerals Why are people looking at the supply incorrectly? MKP had 3 Marauders and 6 Vikings. Army supply is = 6 (Parting stopped colossi production long before the d/c) Parting had 18 Zealots, 6 Stalkers and 8 Templar. Army is 64 Supply. It was 64 Supply vs 6. Thats a 58 Supply Difference. Plus Parting was in MKP's production line, albeit the outer production line but he was still right on top of 3 (maybe 4) barracks. So Parting is up in army supply by a factor of 10 and has the perfect combination of units to crush MKP's (non-existant)army while being on top of some production facilities and we are meant to believe that MKP is coming back from that? No thanks edit 1 - (bad math skills lol) | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On April 11 2012 18:04 Rielle wrote: Why are people looking at the supply incorrectly? MKP had 3 Marauders and 6 Vikings. Army supply is = 6 (Parting stopped colossi production long before the d/c) Parting had 18 Zealots, 6 Stalkers and 8 Templar. Army is 64 Supply. It was 64 Supply vs 6. Thats a 54 Supply Difference. Plus Parting was in MKP's production line, albeit the outer production line but he was still right on top of 3 (maybe 4) barracks. So Parting is up in army supply by a factor of 10 and has the perfect combination of units to crush MKP's (non-existant)army while being on top of some production facilities and we are meant to believe that MKP is coming back from that? No thanks Except that army isnt there for the fight. Most of his army was back at his base. That army that was attacking was going to die. The warp prism was certainly going to die. The question is that if the damage was already done and if MKP was going to be able to get an army not to deal with the present army but the second wave that would have hit in about a minute or two. | ||
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noddy
United Kingdom927 Posts
The reason the difference was so high is because Parting had warped in just before the disconnect off of 12 gates. All these units were warped in AT HOME, it would've taken quite some time to reach MarineKing's side of the map. He was in his production facilities if you count the 3 Barracks MKP placed very far forward, otherwise he definitely wasn't. There would have been at least 2 rounds off units (out of 12 rax) before the units came close. With scvs pulled against a mostly Zealot army and no aoe it would have been easily cleaned up. | ||
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RJRN
1 Post
I am very frustrated with the mockey of such an exciting event. Put yourself in partings shoes..... This is completely Blizzards fault. The referee was put between a rock and a hard place and i would hate to make the decsion becuase at the end of the day..... why the hell should MKP throw in the towel, no matter how far behind he was. Also in the time it took to make the decision they should of gota wizard on map maker and made the exact same game bet it could of been done in 30 minutes with a couple of people working on it. In summary Blizzard OFFLINE MODE FOR BIG EVENTS ONLY. You invading busy body company you. Regards one of the many pi$$ed off fans | ||
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IMPrime
United States715 Posts
On April 11 2012 17:06 Surgical_Strike wrote: when each production cycle is 30+ supply each 25-30 game seconds(which is like what 15 real seconds?) its not such a big deal... also 8 of that was workers ... so 22 supply which isnt much to a 5 base terran with 5-6 orbitals. those orbitals almost count for 2 saturated bases of minerals MKP had like 10 raxes that weren't camped, so that's at most 20ish supply, not 30. Sure, MKP wasn't immediately dead. But even if he pushed parting away, he would sitll be down in supply with no medivacs or ghosts on the field (except for whatever he made during the attack, as right at the DC he had none out). He would eventually die with no way of coming back unless parting royally, ROYALLY screwed up. | ||
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Rielle
Australia91 Posts
On April 11 2012 18:15 Adreme wrote: Except that army isnt there for the fight. Most of his army was back at his base. That army that was attacking was going to die. The warp prism was certainly going to die. The question is that if the damage was already done and if MKP was going to be able to get an army not to deal with the present army but the second wave that would have hit in about a minute or two. That army was going to die? He had atleast 8 zealots and 6 stalkers at that time and no, 3 Marauders would not be able to defeat that. From the mini map you can clearly see that the remaining 10 zealots and 8 Templar were already streaming from his (4th?) base. They would reach MKP's base in ~10 seconds maybe less. You can clearly see them streaming from the mini map with some units already only 1 screen frame away. You can track back MKP's mineral spending and see that he had at best 4-5 Marauders and 3-4 Marines in production. Its not in "a minute or two" like you think. He was going to be overrun without a question and was not going to have enough units about to emerge to save the game. Not even close. | ||
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Rielle
Australia91 Posts
On April 11 2012 18:22 noddy wrote: It's unbelievable how much incorrect information is still being spread. Complain about the decision all you want even though it won't change anything but at least get it right. The reason the difference was so high is because Parting had warped in just before the disconnect off of 12 gates. All these units were warped in AT HOME, it would've taken quite some time to reach MarineKing's side of the map. He was in his production facilities if you count the 3 Barracks MKP placed very far forward, otherwise he definitely wasn't. There would have been at least 2 rounds off units (out of 12 rax) before the units came close. With scvs pulled against a mostly Zealot army and no aoe it would have been easily cleaned up. He had atleast 8 zealots and 6 stalkers at that time and MKP had 3 Marauders. Yes he warped those other units further away but he obviously isn't going to warp them in at the back of his main base. He warped them in at his 4th base where there was the shortest possible travel distance. Those other units were already streaming out of the 4th base at the time of the d/c. You can clearly see it in the mini map. With that short a distance he would have at best 1 partial round of units emerging. Not even 1 full round of units. And all you have to do is count his mineral spending ~20 seconds before the d/c to know that at best he had 4-5 Marauders and 3-4 Marines in production. 9 raxes at best, not 12. It would be silly to attempt to build units in those front 3 raxes and the closest bases were out of minerals. He would have had at best a small handful of workers at the very closest bases. The distance from MKP's 4th base (nearest full mining base for high quantity of workers) is roughly the same distance as those streaming units are of Parting's. He would have had all of the 64 supply in-time for any scv pulling. You simply are not looking at all the facts but making up WILDLY inaccurate assumptions. | ||
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Tipany
United States368 Posts
On April 11 2012 18:04 Rielle wrote: MKP had 3 Marauders and 6 Vikings. Army supply is = 6 (Parting stopped colossi production long before the d/c) Parting had 18 Zealots, 6 Stalkers and 8 Templar. Army is 64 Supply. It was 64 Supply vs 6. Thats a 58 Supply Difference. What in the world is up with this math... | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
On April 10 2012 09:57 Whitewing wrote: You are correct, he had no medivacs at all. The relevant point here is that Parting might not have won immediately, but he was pretty much guaranteed a win in 2 minutes, he had just warped in a ton of high templar and MKP had no long term units like medivacs or ghosts at all, let alone any units that can deal with his 16 zealots and stalkers. Further, MKP can't spend his bank that fast (as evidenced by the fact that he had a bank in the first place, I think we'd all give him the credit and say he wasn't spending it because he didn't have the production, not because his mechanics are terrible) and parting is on 3-4 mining bases (his 5th, 4th and 3rd all have tons of money, his natural had a little mining left), the only reason he doesn't have a bank is that he's actually spending his money well with absurd production rates. Oh yeah? That bank MKP had? He was at 500 minerals. So... parting, who is beating MKP's army all game with a lower suppy count, now has a 30 supply lead with a far superior composition, is macro'ing better, and he isn't going to win in 2 minutes? The only way MKP wins that game is if parting falls out of his chair. Any random NA diamond level player or better could take over from that position and win. BTW, MKP had 71 scvs, 3 marauders and 6 vikings, so we know exactly how much supply of stuff he had in production: 110 supply - 71 - 6 - 12 = 21 supply in production (some of which is in the barracks that Parting is attacking). I don't know where people are getting this idea that MKP would suddenly be able to produce a big enough force to beat Parting in the next minute, what, do they think Parting is gonna stop making units? We also know how much production Parting has available to him, and the fact that Parting is on 3 fully mining bases. His chances of victory were very nearly 0. You can hear Liquid'Nony and TLO shouting Bullshit when they announced the regame (a friend of mine was sitting with them when they yelled it and identified them as the source of the shout), and a lot of tweets from progamers went out at the same time also saying that Parting should have been given the win (like Major, who I don't think anyone would accuse of a bias in favor of the Protoss player). I don't blame MKP or Prime for this situation btw, obviously it's their job to fight for a regame and try to win. Gom screwed over Startale really hard here. this... I finally watched these vods and didn't understand a tiny bit why they'd give a regame for MKP, i feel this decision was made for entertainment value, with startale up 3-1 and MKP/maru/bb gone prime didn't stand a chance. Everyone knows the current PvTbalance is T scary early game, P scary late game. With an advantage as parting had in the late game, there is like 1% chance MKP could get back (also note that the majority of his army, the vikings are useless vs those chargelots). I do not get this decision at all, so upset. The only rather acceptable thing to do in MKP's favor would be making it a best of 3 between parting and MKP with Parting up 1-0. Gom dropped the ball there. I wasn't biased at the start of these finals towards either Prime or Startale, but Startale won an extra fan here, incredible team and the true winner of this GSTL. GG | ||
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BlackGosu
Canada1046 Posts
On April 16 2012 01:53 SolidSMD wrote: this... I finally watched these vods and didn't understand a tiny bit why they'd give a regame for MKP, i feel this decision was made for entertainment value, with startale up 3-1 and MKP/maru/bb gone prime didn't stand a chance. Everyone knows the current PvTbalance is T scary early game, P scary late game. With an advantage as parting had in the late game, there is like 1% chance MKP could get back (also note that the majority of his army, the vikings are useless vs those chargelots). I do not get this decision at all, so upset. The only rather acceptable thing to do in MKP's favor would be making it a best of 3 between parting and MKP with Parting up 1-0. Gom dropped the ball there. I wasn't biased at the start of these finals towards either Prime or Startale, but Startale won an extra fan here, incredible team and the true winner of this GSTL. GG then why did marineking reverse all kill? obvious hint prime was meant to win | ||
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