|
Everyone knows the drill by now.
Keep it manner and have a good time.
We'll be watching along with you. |
On April 08 2012 14:39 vndods wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:
[quote]
how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Come on, MKP is pretty godly but I dont even think he could micro JUST SCV's to victory. Be realistic here man.
This is why War3 is infinitely better from a spectator perspective. Because these situations can actually occur.
+ Show Spoiler +J/k. + Show Spoiler +Actually, I do think War3 is more fun to watch than most SC2 games precisely because you can lose your entire base on a regular basis and still win games convincingly. + Show Spoiler +Also HU towers make bunkers look like wimps, and HU peasants make SCVs look like pansies.
|
On April 08 2012 14:41 iSunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:34 boag11 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 iSunrise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 boag11 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:16 iSunrise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 boag11 wrote:
Just watched the VOD and gonna mention a few points
1. Parting was not near MKP's production builds, just the 3 outside his base
2. It was 5 base vs 5 base
3. Parting only had enough money to warp in ~3 zealots/stalkers or maybe 4 HTs, with his income he might of been able to add 3 more zealots/stalkers or maybe 1 or 2 more HTs at that instance
4. MKP was able to atleast produce ~8 Maruaders and ~6 marines based on production tab from 1 min prior to drop
5. Parting had no AOE close to MKP's base, he had no HTs or collosus left near the fight and no signs of units close enough on minimap (a few units were started to move from Partings base), Warp Prism was around MKP's 3rd so wouldnt have been able to supply HTs directly to fight right away and Parting is known for warping in HTs at his base to charge energy.
From this I think MKP would of held and I dont think Parting would go up the ramp into MKPs natural. Parting might of gone over to MKP's 4th but that will give time for MKP to reinforce further. Almost all of this is true. What you got wrong, though, is your warp prism remark. That warp prism was there for a reason, to reinforce his units, so he didn´t need to run them to the top. He could also have lifted his units that already were there up into MKP´s base easily. Since PartinG had as much bases as MKP, but a lot farther away, PartinG would have had a lot more time to expand even more if he wanted to. I just don´t see a win for MKP with this scenario. The last visual clue of where the Warp Prism was going is when it flew over MKP's natural and heading away from Partings Army going to the gap between the main and the 3rd. That prism is not likely to reinforce Partings main army and with the money parting had would not of dealt major immediate damage. "is not likely" doesn´t mean it isn´t possible. 2 clicks and the prism return to his units to give the a lift. The reinforce isn´t necessary straight away because with these units he could´ve killed everything at MKP´s base easily with the units he already had there. Yes but with moving the Warp Prism back to Partings Army or even away from MKP's base and waiting for more income would give MKP more time to reinforce his ramp. The point is the Warp Prism is not going to immediately help Partings Army thus giving MKP time to make more units and gather at ramp for defense. Also like previously mentioned not all of Partings units were outside MKP's main. The Majority of Partings army was still at Partings base or had recently been warped and and still on the lower half of the map. So no Parting would not have easily entered MKP's base and camp his production No one said it would´ve been easy. But since this is all speculation, we have to work with the numbers at hand and what we can see. PartinG had an amazing run in that game and he forced MKP back to his base and killed everything MKP threw at him with only a bunch of his units with extremely good micro. I just don´t see MKP coming back like this with 5 bases from the Protoss still running while a terran runs out of money sooner, because he used mules. But we should end it here now, I think we made our fair points and this will not change the outcome. I wish you a good night.
A Terran only runs out of money sooner due to Mules if he doesn't have any fresh bases available to mine from. This wasn't the case, he had just taken a fresh base on the right and so Mules are actually a huge point in his favor, he wasn't going to run out of money any time soon.
|
On April 08 2012 14:35 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:33 oogieogie wrote:On April 08 2012 14:29 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:24 oogieogie wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened. how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. 18 zealots/6 stalkers/8 HT or 4 archons would easily just sit on MKPs production. Also money can easily be gathered when on 4(5?) bases or 2-3 bases whatever idc. The problem is i don't see how MKP can deal with partings army when parting can kill anything coming out while either reinforcing with warp prism (not likely since 6 vikings would snipe it) or just walk units across the map since once a person is in your main with his army n yours is gone..you are probably dead. Why are you completely ignoring everything I just said? If those 18 Zealots, 6 Stalkers and 8 HT were capable of teleporting into MarineKings main then yes, Parting wins. But they can't so the point is moot. You don't even know if Parting would even attempt to get inside the main or not. He had no way of knowing how many units MKP had after all, attacking up a narrow ramp with Zealots against MM often is not a great idea. when you just win a engagement..you usually press the fight. I mean hell i just won a fight outside of MKPs main, and i still have units left..would walk in to see if he has anything..find out he doesn't n then press the fight. Err, that's EXACTLY what MKP was doing when he was ahead 90% of the game, and that is exactly what made MKP almost lose that game...
Have you seen the army supply graph? It was pretty even up until the last battle where MKP literally plummeted, while parting was alive and well with his army.
|
That Parting vs MKP game was on its way to a Hall of Fame of best PvT games, until it was ruined T.T
It was better than the sC vs San series imo
|
so rewatched the VOD at 360  and took the below screenshot
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/C05c3.jpg)
the yellow circle in the above image are where MKP's 3 barracks and the bulk of Parting's army are located. This location is basically at the bottom of the ramp to MKP's natural.
here's an image of Entombed Valley if you want to get a better idea of topology
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/8/86/Entombed_Valley.jpg)
The image also shows Parting's Warp Prism having sight of what is at the top of MKP's main ramp. Some things to note are that MKP's main ramp has absolutely nothing at the top to act as a barrier and that MKP's natural ramp has some supply depots but a pretty big hole in the middle where a building probably used to be at.
So some things to glean from this is that Parting can see that there is a clear path into MKP's main and it doesn't look like there is much army for MKP waiting at the top of the ramp.
So if Parting decides to kill MKP's 3 barracks at the bottom of his natural ramp, then might have bought MKP some time to try to extend the game. However, if Parting immediately decides to just move his army into MKP's main and park his army beside MKP's production buildings I don't think MKP would have been able to stop Parting from doing so considering Parting had chargelots and blink stalkers a few seconds away from MKP's main and Parting could possibly warp in units via the warp prism as well (I don't know where MKP's Vikings are located).
|
On April 08 2012 14:45 nokz88 wrote:
That Parting vs MKP game was on its way to a Hall of Fame of best PvT games, until it was ruined T.T
It was better than the sC vs San series imo
Yeah, I'm actually most disappointed about the fact that Parting's crowning moment of glory was ruined more than anything else. That was easily on its way to becoming one of the best games period of all time before the d/c happened. The last time my heart pounded so much was ... sC vs. NesTea on Crossfire, and that game was riddled with errors.
Hell, if I had to regame something like that ... hearing the regame go through was absolutely gutting for me as a spectator who watched Parting play pitch-perfect that first game. I can't imagine how that felt for Parting.
|
On April 08 2012 14:41 iSunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:34 boag11 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 iSunrise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 boag11 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:16 iSunrise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 boag11 wrote:
Just watched the VOD and gonna mention a few points
1. Parting was not near MKP's production builds, just the 3 outside his base
2. It was 5 base vs 5 base
3. Parting only had enough money to warp in ~3 zealots/stalkers or maybe 4 HTs, with his income he might of been able to add 3 more zealots/stalkers or maybe 1 or 2 more HTs at that instance
4. MKP was able to atleast produce ~8 Maruaders and ~6 marines based on production tab from 1 min prior to drop
5. Parting had no AOE close to MKP's base, he had no HTs or collosus left near the fight and no signs of units close enough on minimap (a few units were started to move from Partings base), Warp Prism was around MKP's 3rd so wouldnt have been able to supply HTs directly to fight right away and Parting is known for warping in HTs at his base to charge energy.
From this I think MKP would of held and I dont think Parting would go up the ramp into MKPs natural. Parting might of gone over to MKP's 4th but that will give time for MKP to reinforce further. Almost all of this is true. What you got wrong, though, is your warp prism remark. That warp prism was there for a reason, to reinforce his units, so he didn´t need to run them to the top. He could also have lifted his units that already were there up into MKP´s base easily. Since PartinG had as much bases as MKP, but a lot farther away, PartinG would have had a lot more time to expand even more if he wanted to. I just don´t see a win for MKP with this scenario. The last visual clue of where the Warp Prism was going is when it flew over MKP's natural and heading away from Partings Army going to the gap between the main and the 3rd. That prism is not likely to reinforce Partings main army and with the money parting had would not of dealt major immediate damage. "is not likely" doesn´t mean it isn´t possible. 2 clicks and the prism return to his units to give the a lift. The reinforce isn´t necessary straight away because with these units he could´ve killed everything at MKP´s base easily with the units he already had there. Yes but with moving the Warp Prism back to Partings Army or even away from MKP's base and waiting for more income would give MKP more time to reinforce his ramp. The point is the Warp Prism is not going to immediately help Partings Army thus giving MKP time to make more units and gather at ramp for defense. Also like previously mentioned not all of Partings units were outside MKP's main. The Majority of Partings army was still at Partings base or had recently been warped and and still on the lower half of the map. So no Parting would not have easily entered MKP's base and camp his production No one said it would´ve been easy. But since this is all speculation, we have to work with the numbers at hand and what we could/can see. PartinG had an amazing run in that game and he forced MKP back to his base and killed everything MKP threw at him with only a bunch of his units with extremely good micro. I just don´t see MKP coming back like this with 5 bases from the Protoss still running while a terran runs out of money sooner, because he used mules. But we should end it here now, I think we made our fair points and this will not change the outcome. I wish you a good night.
It doesn't work like that. You just don't award a game purely based on who has the upper hand at a given instant. In SC2 we've seen awarded games only on rare occasions where a player was really dead as fuck, it's much more crucial to call a default win than it is to call a regame (after all, if you can beat a guy one time, you can do it another time).
In this case, 3 barracks being attacked in the middle of the map while you have 15 more pumping 3-3 bio and 5 bases doesn't warrant a call for a lost game.
|
Right now, I'm celebrating since Prime pulled out the win! 
However, if I was a ST fan, I would definitely be fuming!
Oh well, MKP fighting!!!
He is so in form right now and I hope he wins the GSL this season!
|
On April 08 2012 14:38 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:
[quote]
how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Killing the barracks and going to the main base would mean there is more than just scvs you know'
MKP had less than a tenth of parting's army supply, he's production facilities were camped, whatever spawn out of them had no medivac support. If you think his army would do anything other than getting instant wiped, you don't know lategame TvP. (And no, SCVs won't do shit when Protoss has every single form of splash available.)
|
On April 08 2012 14:50 ppdealer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:38 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:
[quote]
I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Killing the barracks and going to the main base would mean there is more than just scvs you know' MKP had less than a tenth of parting's army supply, he's production facilities were camped, whatever spawn out of them had no medivac support. If you think his army would do anything other than getting instant wiped, you don't know lategame TvP. (And no, SCVs won't do shit when Protoss has every single form of splash available.)
Exactly this, especially with the extra templar's on the field which could cast storm or merge into archons.
|
On April 08 2012 14:50 ppdealer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:38 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:
[quote]
I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Killing the barracks and going to the main base would mean there is more than just scvs you know' MKP had less than a tenth of parting's army supply, he's production facilities were camped, whatever spawn out of them had no medivac support. If you think his army would do anything other than getting instant wiped, you don't know lategame TvP. (And no, SCVs won't do shit when Protoss has every single form of splash available.)
blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda repeat all the things already posted and refuted from both sides. LOL
|
On April 08 2012 14:45 udgnim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +so rewatched the VOD at 360 and took the below screenshot the yellow circle in the above image are where MKP's 3 barracks and the bulk of Parting's army are located. This location is basically at the bottom of the ramp to MKP's natural. here's an image of Entombed Valley if you want to get a better idea of topology The image also shows Parting's Warp Prism having sight of what is at the top of MKP's main ramp. Some things to note are that MKP's main ramp has absolutely nothing at the top to act as a barrier and that MKP's natural ramp has some supply depots but a pretty big hole in the middle where a building probably used to be at. So some things to glean from this is that Parting can see that there is a clear path into MKP's main and it doesn't look like there is much army for MKP waiting at the top of the ramp. So if Parting decides to kill MKP's 3 barracks at the bottom of his natural ramp, then might have bought MKP some time to try to extend the game. However, if Parting immediately decides to just move his army into MKP's main and park his army beside MKP's production buildings I don't think MKP would have been able to stop Parting from doing so considering Parting had chargelots and blink stalkers a few seconds away from MKP's main and Parting could possibly warp in units via the warp prism as well (I don't know where MKP's Vikings are located).
As said before, this is a good point, but that doesn't mean PartinG was watching the WP at that moment. It's not possible to just tell on the minimap how many units there are (because of depots and other buildings and shit).
Judges had the replay and could easily look at PartinG's POV to check for this for their ruling too. They just had way more information that we have, and most likely more competent than most of us in this thread.
|
On April 08 2012 14:48 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:41 iSunrise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 boag11 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 iSunrise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 boag11 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:16 iSunrise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 boag11 wrote:
Just watched the VOD and gonna mention a few points
1. Parting was not near MKP's production builds, just the 3 outside his base
2. It was 5 base vs 5 base
3. Parting only had enough money to warp in ~3 zealots/stalkers or maybe 4 HTs, with his income he might of been able to add 3 more zealots/stalkers or maybe 1 or 2 more HTs at that instance
4. MKP was able to atleast produce ~8 Maruaders and ~6 marines based on production tab from 1 min prior to drop
5. Parting had no AOE close to MKP's base, he had no HTs or collosus left near the fight and no signs of units close enough on minimap (a few units were started to move from Partings base), Warp Prism was around MKP's 3rd so wouldnt have been able to supply HTs directly to fight right away and Parting is known for warping in HTs at his base to charge energy.
From this I think MKP would of held and I dont think Parting would go up the ramp into MKPs natural. Parting might of gone over to MKP's 4th but that will give time for MKP to reinforce further. Almost all of this is true. What you got wrong, though, is your warp prism remark. That warp prism was there for a reason, to reinforce his units, so he didn´t need to run them to the top. He could also have lifted his units that already were there up into MKP´s base easily. Since PartinG had as much bases as MKP, but a lot farther away, PartinG would have had a lot more time to expand even more if he wanted to. I just don´t see a win for MKP with this scenario. The last visual clue of where the Warp Prism was going is when it flew over MKP's natural and heading away from Partings Army going to the gap between the main and the 3rd. That prism is not likely to reinforce Partings main army and with the money parting had would not of dealt major immediate damage. "is not likely" doesn´t mean it isn´t possible. 2 clicks and the prism return to his units to give the a lift. The reinforce isn´t necessary straight away because with these units he could´ve killed everything at MKP´s base easily with the units he already had there. Yes but with moving the Warp Prism back to Partings Army or even away from MKP's base and waiting for more income would give MKP more time to reinforce his ramp. The point is the Warp Prism is not going to immediately help Partings Army thus giving MKP time to make more units and gather at ramp for defense. Also like previously mentioned not all of Partings units were outside MKP's main. The Majority of Partings army was still at Partings base or had recently been warped and and still on the lower half of the map. So no Parting would not have easily entered MKP's base and camp his production No one said it would´ve been easy. But since this is all speculation, we have to work with the numbers at hand and what we could/can see. PartinG had an amazing run in that game and he forced MKP back to his base and killed everything MKP threw at him with only a bunch of his units with extremely good micro. I just don´t see MKP coming back like this with 5 bases from the Protoss still running while a terran runs out of money sooner, because he used mules. But we should end it here now, I think we made our fair points and this will not change the outcome. I wish you a good night. It doesn't work like that. You just don't award a game purely based on who has the upper hand at a given instant. In SC2 we've seen awarded games only on rare occasions where a player was really dead as fuck, it's much more crucial to call a default win than it is to call a regame (after all, if you can beat a guy one time, you can do it another time). In this case, 3 barracks being attacked in the middle of the map while you have 15 more pumping 3-3 bio and 5 bases doesn't warrant a call for a lost game.
Calling the game lost by referees is not going to happen any time soon. Everyone takes the safe route and will instead go for a rematch. Nothing wrong there. But PartinG still had a very good chance of winning. Two different topics we are talking about.
|
On April 08 2012 14:50 ppdealer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:38 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:
[quote]
I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Killing the barracks and going to the main base would mean there is more than just scvs you know' MKP had less than a tenth of parting's army supply, he's production facilities were camped, whatever spawn out of them had no medivac support. If you think his army would do anything other than getting instant wiped, you don't know lategame TvP. (And no, SCVs won't do shit when Protoss has every single form of splash available.)
Not to mention either he was ganna have to pull SCV's ( and lose them) or lose them either way cause shit tons of zealots were already making their way towards his Expansions... AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, Partings income was not being affected at all during this encounter. This was just about over.
|
On April 08 2012 14:53 seansye wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:50 ppdealer wrote:On April 08 2012 14:38 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:
[quote]
Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production.
Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Killing the barracks and going to the main base would mean there is more than just scvs you know' MKP had less than a tenth of parting's army supply, he's production facilities were camped, whatever spawn out of them had no medivac support. If you think his army would do anything other than getting instant wiped, you don't know lategame TvP. (And no, SCVs won't do shit when Protoss has every single form of splash available.) Not to mention either he was ganna have to pull SCV's ( and lose them) or lose them either way cause shit tons of zealots were already making their way towards his Expansions... AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, Partings income was not being affected at all during this encounter. This was just about over.
REPEAT ALL THE PREVIOUSLY STATED ARGUMENTS! TO VICTORY!
|
On April 08 2012 14:53 seansye wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:50 ppdealer wrote:On April 08 2012 14:38 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:
[quote]
Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production.
Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Killing the barracks and going to the main base would mean there is more than just scvs you know' MKP had less than a tenth of parting's army supply, he's production facilities were camped, whatever spawn out of them had no medivac support. If you think his army would do anything other than getting instant wiped, you don't know lategame TvP. (And no, SCVs won't do shit when Protoss has every single form of splash available.) Not to mention either he was ganna have to pull SCV's ( and lose them) or lose them either way cause shit tons of zealots were already making their way towards his Expansions... AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, Partings income was not being affected at all during this encounter. This was just about over.
how is mkp's income being affected when he has other bases too? @@;;;;
ummm
|
On April 08 2012 14:52 CeroFail wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:50 ppdealer wrote:On April 08 2012 14:38 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:
[quote]
Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production.
Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Killing the barracks and going to the main base would mean there is more than just scvs you know' MKP had less than a tenth of parting's army supply, he's production facilities were camped, whatever spawn out of them had no medivac support. If you think his army would do anything other than getting instant wiped, you don't know lategame TvP. (And no, SCVs won't do shit when Protoss has every single form of splash available.) Exactly this, especially with the extra templar's on the field which could cast storm or merge into archons.
Except MKP's production wasnt being camped, only 3 Barracks were being attacked. Partings HTs were not close to his army and were most likely moving out or still back at his base. Parting only had around 7 zealots and 5 stalkers near MKP's base not his entire army and the closes reinforcements were still on the lower half of the map as shown by the minimap
|
Imo, as long as there is reasonable doubt the decision to replay should stand.
|
I need MKP to win GSL now.
|
So I'm home after watching this at the venue, and first off, OMFG MKP OMFG OMFG OMFG INSANE! Gom did an amazing job with the production, and fuck man...mkp is just ridiculously good. Second, I'm glad they did a re game instead of giving the win to parting, and I feel like the crowd had an impact on that, as everyone was pissed and I believe a riot would have started if a ref decided what's considered the most important game of the series imo. Yeah, MKP good, and I can't wait to see what he does tomorrow :D
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
