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Everyone knows the drill by now.
Keep it manner and have a good time.
We'll be watching along with you. |
On April 08 2012 14:25 Akta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... Bolded part. Lot of people mentioned right away in this thread that having to regame would probably be hard for Parting. Put yourself in his shoes, rewatch the vod or whatever. He was extremely pressured basically the whole game and when he manages to kill mkp's whole army, probably thinking mkp was about to gg they get the disconnect.
I mean, yeah, it's pressuring and it must have been a very hard blow to have to regame MKP while having him on the ropes, but think about it. MKP is 5-1 prior to this GSTL game against PartinG, while PartinG is considered to have the best TvP in the world. Even with the calmest mind ever, PartinG isn't going to consistently challenge MKP's TvP...
But maybe that's why it's even harder for PartinG. After all he almost had the guy he cannot beat, and was stopped dead in his tracks by some stupid technical issue 
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On April 08 2012 14:29 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:22 canikizu wrote:On April 08 2012 14:16 oogieogie wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 Probasaur wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 boag11 wrote:
Just watched the VOD and gonna mention a few points
1. Parting was not near MKP's production builds, just the 3 outside his base
2. It was 5 base vs 5 base
3. Parting only had enough money to warp in ~3 zealots/stalkers or maybe 4 HTs, with his income he might of been able to add 3 more zealots/stalkers or maybe 1 or 2 more HTs at that instance
4. MKP was able to atleast produce ~8 Maruaders and ~6 marines based on production tab from 1 min prior to drop
5. Parting had no AOE close to MKP's base, he had no HTs or collosus left near the fight and no signs of units close enough on minimap (a few units were started to move from Partings base), Warp Prism was around MKP's 3rd so wouldnt have been able to supply HTs directly to fight right away and Parting is known for warping in HTs at his base to charge energy.
From this I think MKP would of held and I dont think Parting would go up the ramp into MKPs natural. Parting might of gone over to MKP's 4th but that will give time for MKP to reinforce further. BOOM! The dude's 2nd post and he just owned all you loons arguing against facts. HE WAS NOT IN HIS BASE!!! He wasn't even up the 1st ramp. Yes he was camping 3 barracks outside the natural. Boom. Shutup. ugh...people are saying that parting would WALK HIS UNITS INTO THE MAIN WHILE MKP HAD NOTHING BUT PRODUCTION GOING..who cares if he was hitting 3 barracks outside the main n is not even in the main when it is like 3-5 seconds away from parting hey guys hes not in the main, but just outside the entrence to the natural which is about 3-5 seconds away from parting. Also why would you need AoE when you are killing units coming out of barracks one by one? I hear 8 marauders n 6 marines can deal with 18 chargelots n 6 stalkers. From looking at the vods, although Parting seems to have massive lead advantage (18 zealots, 8 stalkers, 8 HTs), at the time of the dc, there're only 9 zealots 6 stalkers at MKP's outer raxes. The rest are still at bases, some are on the move. HTs are useless because he literally just warp in from 1 HTs to 8 HTs 1,2 seconds before the dc. Parting doesn't have any splash units, just pure gateway units hitting those 3 raxes. The warp prism is literally on top of the production with 6 vikings. MKP at that time has 17 raxes, about to lose 3, but he still has 14 raxes untouched. Assuming he stops producing Viking and switches back to medivacs, 4 starports can produce a bunch of medivac very fast. Moreover, since it's Terran we can assume that ha has a bunches of units queuing in 14 raxes, unlike Parting who has to squeeze units out. So imo, although Parting is in massive lead, maybe can even strongly push in MKP bases, but realistically, the game isn't gonna end in the next 1,2 minutes. There's no way Parting can hit that many bases in short amount of time with that amount of units. I think that's the whole point for the remake, Parting isn't gonna win against MKP for at least 5 more minutes. He may have a big lead after that, expands more bases, making more collosuses, push out once again with more HTs, zealots,..v.v.v., and win, but he certainly is not gonna win the game with that push. It's a shame that GomTV is not gonna release replays because that's their policies, we can only speculate for now. 1. HTs can morph into Archons that give splash, and makes the HTs not useless. 2. That can be checked by seeing how much money MKP has towards the end, and then seeing if his money drops a huge deal to deal with production happening or not. Also I can't believe you are saying Parting has to squeeze units out when hes protoss he will just warp them in which won't take much time. 3. He could maybe win with that push if he just went into the main..not like he wouldn't have been dealt a huge blow at least if not a killing one.
So between the time HTs morph into Archons, travel from Parting's base to reinforce front group of units, go from those 3 outer barracks to MKPs base.. you want to make the assumption that MKP's standing army remains the same????
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On April 08 2012 14:29 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:24 oogieogie wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened. how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. 18 zealots/6 stalkers/8 HT or 4 archons would easily just sit on MKPs production. Also money can easily be gathered when on 4(5?) bases or 2-3 bases whatever idc. The problem is i don't see how MKP can deal with partings army when parting can kill anything coming out while either reinforcing with warp prism (not likely since 6 vikings would snipe it) or just walk units across the map since once a person is in your main with his army n yours is gone..you are probably dead. Why are you completely ignoring everything I just said? If those 18 Zealots, 6 Stalkers and 8 HT were capable of teleporting into MarineKings main then yes, Parting wins. But they can't so the point is moot. You don't even know if Parting would even attempt to get inside the main or not. He had no way of knowing how many units MKP had after all, attacking up a narrow ramp with Zealots against MM often is not a great idea.
when you just win a engagement..you usually press the fight. I mean hell i just won a fight outside of MKPs main, and i still have units left..would walk in to see if he has anything..find out he doesn't n then press the fight.
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On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened. how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS"
Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently.
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On April 08 2012 14:30 iSunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:25 boag11 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:16 iSunrise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 boag11 wrote:
Just watched the VOD and gonna mention a few points
1. Parting was not near MKP's production builds, just the 3 outside his base
2. It was 5 base vs 5 base
3. Parting only had enough money to warp in ~3 zealots/stalkers or maybe 4 HTs, with his income he might of been able to add 3 more zealots/stalkers or maybe 1 or 2 more HTs at that instance
4. MKP was able to atleast produce ~8 Maruaders and ~6 marines based on production tab from 1 min prior to drop
5. Parting had no AOE close to MKP's base, he had no HTs or collosus left near the fight and no signs of units close enough on minimap (a few units were started to move from Partings base), Warp Prism was around MKP's 3rd so wouldnt have been able to supply HTs directly to fight right away and Parting is known for warping in HTs at his base to charge energy.
From this I think MKP would of held and I dont think Parting would go up the ramp into MKPs natural. Parting might of gone over to MKP's 4th but that will give time for MKP to reinforce further. Almost all of this is true. What you got wrong, though, is your warp prism remark. That warp prism was there for a reason, to reinforce his units, so he didn´t need to run them to the top. He could also have lifted his units that already were there up into MKP´s base easily. Since PartinG had as much bases as MKP, but a lot farther away, PartinG would have had a lot more time to expand even more if he wanted to. I just don´t see a win for MKP with this scenario. The last visual clue of where the Warp Prism was going is when it flew over MKP's natural and heading away from Partings Army going to the gap between the main and the 3rd. That prism is not likely to reinforce Partings main army and with the money parting had would not of dealt major immediate damage. "is not likely" doesn´t mean it isn´t possible. 2 clicks and the prism return to his units to give the a lift. The reinforce isn´t necessary straight away because with these units he could´ve killed everything at MKP´s base easily with the units he already had there.
Yes but with moving the Warp Prism back to Partings Army or even away from MKP's base and waiting for more income would give MKP more time to reinforce his ramp. The point is the Warp Prism is not going to immediately help Partings Army thus giving MKP time to make more units and gather at ramp for defense.
Also like previously mentioned not all of Partings units were outside MKP's main. The Majority of Partings army was still at Partings base or had recently been warped and and still on the lower half of the map. So no Parting would not have easily entered MKP's base and camp his production
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On April 08 2012 14:31 vndods wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:29 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:27 Fubi wrote:On April 08 2012 14:23 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:22 Doodsmack wrote:
Funny how there can be a couple obviously unintelligent people arguing one side of an argument in a thread, and make it appear as if there is a legitimate debate despite the fact that their logic is being trampled on by 10 more articulate people. It says that GOM was correct to call the regame. There are too many people on each side arguing for X. Plus, we are all just speculating shit, GOM referees and staff had the best idea about the situation of the game, since you know, they had the replay and all. Exactly, why are we even still arguing? If GOM's referees, people who are specially hired to deal with these exact situations, had access to the replays, took 20+ mins to analyse it, and finally made a decision, why are we still debating what the decision should be? because this puts way too much confidence in authority, in particular an authority with potential interests? and because there's a valid question of what the standards should be for difficult situations, independent of whose making the decision? So you're saying GOM likes Prime more than Startale, and they called the regame for that reason?
no, i'm saying GOM likes airing more games more than awarding TKOs, and had an incentive to call a regame for that reason (note that an incentive is different from cause)
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On April 08 2012 14:33 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:29 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:24 oogieogie wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened. how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. 18 zealots/6 stalkers/8 HT or 4 archons would easily just sit on MKPs production. Also money can easily be gathered when on 4(5?) bases or 2-3 bases whatever idc. The problem is i don't see how MKP can deal with partings army when parting can kill anything coming out while either reinforcing with warp prism (not likely since 6 vikings would snipe it) or just walk units across the map since once a person is in your main with his army n yours is gone..you are probably dead. Why are you completely ignoring everything I just said? If those 18 Zealots, 6 Stalkers and 8 HT were capable of teleporting into MarineKings main then yes, Parting wins. But they can't so the point is moot. You don't even know if Parting would even attempt to get inside the main or not. He had no way of knowing how many units MKP had after all, attacking up a narrow ramp with Zealots against MM often is not a great idea. when you just win a engagement..you usually press the fight. I mean hell i just won a fight outside of MKPs main, and i still have units left..would walk in to see if he has anything..find out he doesn't n then press the fight.
Err, that's EXACTLY what MKP was doing when he was ahead 90% of the game, and that is exactly what made MKP almost lose that game...
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On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened. how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS"
First argument is good indeed, I've thought about it too, but PartinG just flought his warpprism over MKP's natural and main's ramps. He probably wasn't looking at it, but if he was, he would have seen no units at all, and maybe would have taken his chances up the ramps. Tough to call.
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On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened. how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently.
yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step
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On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:
[quote]
"Great production"
Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened.
how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step
Killing the barracks and going to the main base would mean there is more than just scvs you know'
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On April 08 2012 14:36 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened. how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" First argument is good indeed, I've thought about it too, but PartinG just flought his warpprism over MKP's natural and main's ramps. He probably wasn't looking at it, but if he was, he would have seen no units at all, and maybe would have taken his chances up the ramps. Tough to call.
yeah, I would personally still call it for parting, I just think the information argument is like the actual one I would listen to
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On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:
[quote]
"Great production"
Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened.
how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step
Come on, MKP is pretty godly but I dont even think he could micro JUST SCV's to victory. Be realistic here man.
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oh please.... I am a toss player and was rooting for parting still, There is no way that game could have been given to him at that conditions. "Re" was the only option.
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On April 08 2012 14:39 vndods wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:
[quote]
how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Come on, MKP is pretty godly but I dont even think he could micro JUST SCV's to victory. Be realistic here man.
if there's any chance they have to regame it
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On April 08 2012 14:40 Daimiru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:39 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:
[quote]
I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main. Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production. Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Come on, MKP is pretty godly but I dont even think he could micro JUST SCV's to victory. Be realistic here man. comeback king
I don't know which side you're on anymore o.O
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On April 08 2012 14:40 vndods wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:40 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:39 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:
[quote]
Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production.
Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Come on, MKP is pretty godly but I dont even think he could micro JUST SCV's to victory. Be realistic here man. comeback king I don't know which side you're on anymore o.O
I'm confused too
Then again I'm confused why this discussion is even taking place still T_T;;
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On April 08 2012 14:34 boag11 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:30 iSunrise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 boag11 wrote:On April 08 2012 14:16 iSunrise wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 boag11 wrote:
Just watched the VOD and gonna mention a few points
1. Parting was not near MKP's production builds, just the 3 outside his base
2. It was 5 base vs 5 base
3. Parting only had enough money to warp in ~3 zealots/stalkers or maybe 4 HTs, with his income he might of been able to add 3 more zealots/stalkers or maybe 1 or 2 more HTs at that instance
4. MKP was able to atleast produce ~8 Maruaders and ~6 marines based on production tab from 1 min prior to drop
5. Parting had no AOE close to MKP's base, he had no HTs or collosus left near the fight and no signs of units close enough on minimap (a few units were started to move from Partings base), Warp Prism was around MKP's 3rd so wouldnt have been able to supply HTs directly to fight right away and Parting is known for warping in HTs at his base to charge energy.
From this I think MKP would of held and I dont think Parting would go up the ramp into MKPs natural. Parting might of gone over to MKP's 4th but that will give time for MKP to reinforce further. Almost all of this is true. What you got wrong, though, is your warp prism remark. That warp prism was there for a reason, to reinforce his units, so he didn´t need to run them to the top. He could also have lifted his units that already were there up into MKP´s base easily. Since PartinG had as much bases as MKP, but a lot farther away, PartinG would have had a lot more time to expand even more if he wanted to. I just don´t see a win for MKP with this scenario. The last visual clue of where the Warp Prism was going is when it flew over MKP's natural and heading away from Partings Army going to the gap between the main and the 3rd. That prism is not likely to reinforce Partings main army and with the money parting had would not of dealt major immediate damage. "is not likely" doesn´t mean it isn´t possible. 2 clicks and the prism return to his units to give the a lift. The reinforce isn´t necessary straight away because with these units he could´ve killed everything at MKP´s base easily with the units he already had there. Yes but with moving the Warp Prism back to Partings Army or even away from MKP's base and waiting for more income would give MKP more time to reinforce his ramp. The point is the Warp Prism is not going to immediately help Partings Army thus giving MKP time to make more units and gather at ramp for defense. Also like previously mentioned not all of Partings units were outside MKP's main. The Majority of Partings army was still at Partings base or had recently been warped and and still on the lower half of the map. So no Parting would not have easily entered MKP's base and camp his production
No one said it would´ve been easy. But since this is all speculation, we have to work with the numbers at hand and what we could/can see. PartinG had an amazing run in that game and he forced MKP back to his base and killed everything MKP threw at him with only a bunch of his units with extremely good micro. I just don´t see MKP coming back like this with 5 bases from the Protoss still running while a terran runs out of money sooner, because he used mules. But we should end it here now, I think we made our fair points and this will not change the outcome. I wish you a good night.
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Hahaha, nothing makes a match more interesting when spiced up with some drama! :p
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On April 08 2012 14:40 vndods wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:40 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:39 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:25 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:19 Exarl25 wrote:
[quote]
Watch it again, more carefully this time. Parting had no money for a warp in, even if he did the Vikings may have been able to prevent it. Only a small number of those Zealots and none of the HT were anywhere near MKP's base, furthermore most of those HT had just been warped in which meant no Storms yet and also less Warp Gates available for your hypothetical warp in. We also don't know how many units MKP had that were about to finish production.
Calling it 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalkers and 8 HT is just a dishonest assessment of the situation. Empirical evidence http://i.imgur.com/LPFZa.jpg Looks like a clear win for Parting IMO :/ yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Come on, MKP is pretty godly but I dont even think he could micro JUST SCV's to victory. Be realistic here man. comeback king I don't know which side you're on anymore o.O
all i'm saying is if there's any chance for SCV micro to win the day they have to regame it
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On April 08 2012 14:42 Daimiru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:40 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:40 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:39 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:37 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:34 vndods wrote:On April 08 2012 14:32 Daimiru wrote:On April 08 2012 14:30 -TesteR- wrote:On April 08 2012 14:26 zhurai wrote:yes yes, people keep cycling the same evidence again and again and people keep refuting them ~_~;; (over about 300-400 pages or so) I haven't seen anything about this yet, as I haven't read the entire thread, but i'm interested in how this could possibly be refuted? the best argument in MKP's favor is that Parting's imperfect knowledge might cause him not to attack, which gives MKP breathing room to macro back to a less lopsided gamestate the worst argument "COMEBACK KING STUTTER STEP HUP HUP SQUATS UGS" Actually, defending MKP's stutter step is probably the best argument, since he shows it off consistently. yeah, it was a great opportunity to show off his SCV stutter step Come on, MKP is pretty godly but I dont even think he could micro JUST SCV's to victory. Be realistic here man. comeback king I don't know which side you're on anymore o.O all i'm saying is if there's any chance for SCV micro to win the day they have to regame it
I agree. Amen.
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EPT
