[GSL] 2012 Season 1 Code S Ro16 Group C - Page 161

On February 09 2012 04:58 Heavenly wrote:


Lol, I would love to see the replay of that game to analyze slowly and see what the casters missed. Parting outplayed him in many aspects which you refuse to acknowledge. Lol at you saying "Parting forgets charge", as if it had any impact on the game---it's not like a huge push came from Jjaki at that timing and was still held off easily. Yes, Parting's nexus was forced to cancel twice. Yes, he lost his army when cornered. Yes, Jjaki also crushed through the protoss army supply efficiently, but you're acting like Parting had Khydarian Amulet or something---yes, he warped in a lot of zealots, he also had a ton of templar that weren't in the initial battle that then came and laid down a lot of storms defensively. How would the battle have looked if those templar were there in the first place laying down those storms?

But how many unnecessary storms did Jjaki eat? How often did he really snipe templar or EMP them when he could have with better ghost control? How many times did he get his ghosts sniped when he wasnt looking? How good were his engagements, really? How many ghosts were there compared to templar? How many marines did Jjaki end up building to inflate his supply compared to those high amounts of templar, which they aren't particularly good versus? How many storms went off compared to EMP? How well did Jjaki actually macro compared to Parting? How well did he harass compared to Parting, who seemed to be doing it more frequently and denied the fourth repeatedly? Yes, cannons and templar are good defense but it's not an impenetrable defense by any means---what can two or three dropships, with low energy so they don't get feedbacked, do to Parting's main base when his army is out on the map?

You act like that game defies RTS logic---lmao, what RTS logic? The RTS logic where recently blanket EMP slaughtered everything before its nerf and still, if Jjaki got them off properly, would have done a lot of damage? At the VERY most, Blizzard should look into slightly reworking the EMP change. The RTS logic where terran, caught unsieged by zerg, gets absolutely destroyed? Where a lucky baneling mine can slaughter 20 marines? Where one EMP can hit all templar if protoss isn't looking? Where, in an observer is out of position or sniped with a scan, cloaked ghosts can blanket EMP the protoss army and snipe high templar? Good thing there is more to this game than remembering your upgrades and building expansions, and it comes down to individual skill and (maybe too often) luck.

It seems every single game a protoss in the GSL wins now is an indicator of imbalance and maybe not skill based, and no one acknowledges what the protoss actually did well compared to the terran.

On February 09 2012 05:18 CosmicSpiral wrote:


The cheap way to beat Protoss is to depend on mindgames and do gimmick builds. It's cheap because it's fragile and will never be consistent enough to consistently win games.

People say Inca is crap because he depends on mindgames and prep to win PvTs, but now Jjakji is top 3 TvP player because he does the same thing? TL your hypocrisy is staggering.

On February 09 2012 05:18 CosmicSpiral wrote:


The cheap way to beat Protoss is to depend on mindgames and do gimmick builds. It's cheap because it's fragile and will never be consistent enough to consistently win games.

People say Inca is crap because he depends on mindgames and prep to win PvTs, but now Jjakji is top 3 TvP player because he does the same thing? TL your hypocrisy is staggering.

On February 09 2012 04:12 Horseballs wrote:


It isn't based on raw numbers of who is left, it is based on the content of the games played.

For instance: I have no issues at all with the metropolis game. Jjakji scouts the quick third, and decides to go for a 2 base ghost all-in to try to kill the protoss before too much splash is on the field. Protoss should have won that game.

However, the game on cloud kingdom just seemed ridiculous. Parting forgets charge, a key component to the strategy he is trying to execute. He has his third denied twice - he is forced to cancel each time right after the nexus is over half built. Jjakji has 2-1 or 3-1 (I'll have to go back and look, either way he was ahead of protoss in upgrade) and is putting up a fourth when protoss is finally establishing his third. Parting lets his army get cornered and killed for basically nothing, it is a completely one-sided stomping and jjakji is up by a huge amount of supply... and he can not kill the protoss no matter what he does. Protoss just warps in zealots and cannons and storms all over the equally or better upgraded terran army until he gets his deathball and just one-shots planetaries and kills everything. Jjakji tries, but can't drop because Parting smartly uses cannons and templar to defend his bases.

The game on Antiga was under similar circumstances, Jjakji up by a large amount of supply, scans the protoss third while it is being built and sees colossus and templar, and even though he has a much larger army he just freezes because he cannot attack into it. He could risk it and hope storm wasn't done building, but then it is just blind luck if he wins. Later, parting donates his army again, and again he can not be killed. That Jjakji landed his vikings made sense, after all he just CRUSHED through a protoss army supply efficiently, but no - Parting just warped in zealots and spammed storms everywhere and terran could not kill him.

The game on Daybreak doesn't even make sense to me, it defies all RTS logic.

You cannot rely on statistics and win-rates to make any claim about balance. In the Cloud Kingdom and Antiga games, parting made enormous mistakes, mistakes that if Jjakji had made, would've ended the game instantly.

On February 09 2012 05:23 Poopi wrote:

What lolwut?
People hate InCa because all he does is DT and counter "anti-DT' builds, and the fact that he eliminated LosirA and Polt by playing "hmm we will say bad LOL" against Zenio.
Jjakji does not rely on gimmicks only, he uses them to allow himself to win a TvP series.
If you think that Polt only does standart games in a TvP series, you are fooling yourself

On February 09 2012 05:23 Poopi wrote:

What lolwut?
People hate InCa because all he does is DT and counter "anti-DT' builds, and the fact that he eliminated LosirA and Polt by playing "hmm we will say bad LOL" against Zenio.
Jjakji does not rely on gimmicks only, he uses them to allow himself to win a TvP series.
If you think that Polt only does standart games in a TvP series, you are fooling yourself

On February 09 2012 05:31 CosmicSpiral wrote:


So wait, doing builds based on his reputation does not count as "mindgames". I'm pretty sure that falls under any definition of mindgames.

Nice semantics there. No real difference between "rely" and "uses them to allow himself". He uses them to win.

Polt likes to do 1/1/1s and 2 raxs but I see him winning the majority of his macro TvPs. He's only the few terrans who actually knows how to engage a P army cost-efficiently. Just because he lost to Killer due to dumb hellion builds doesn't change the fact.

On February 09 2012 05:18 Lorch wrote:


This sentence is the easiest way to sumup all the qqing going on in this thread, I don't understand why this thread is still open when balance "discussion" is not supposed to be a part of it. Based on raw numbers terran has been beating protoss ever since release with the only exception being 1 bloody month, get your act together and act like mature players instead of qqing little kids.

On February 09 2012 05:32 babylon wrote:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Polt's the guy who's infamous for timings and early aggressive pushes designed to cripple the Protoss before they get into a macro game.

I'm a Polt fan. He is one of my favorite Terrans. But there's a reason why people poked fun at him saying, "Oh, look, he's evolving from one-base timing pushes into two-base timing pushes!"

The only player who's ever preferred to play macro TvP consistently is Bomber, with great success at first, but now that everyone's caught onto the fact that that's his go-to strategy, they just kill him.