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On February 09 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 05:53 SeaSwift wrote:
MC and Parting probably have the best and second best PvT in the world, respectively. They beat 2 Terrans, one of whom has a sub-50% winrate in TvP, and suddenly PvT is broken? It has allways been a broken matchup for the entire history of Sc2 . Its just badly designed and uninteresting to watch.
Yea when you got 1 unit that hardcounters everything including buildings for the other race (ghost) and a sc2 version, smart pathing, with stim + heal support dragoon version (marauder) for Terran.
Terran always has more options than any other races. Terrans just got used to beating Protoss by abusing EMPs and 1/1/1s. Now that they lose in standard games it's because of balance and not skills lol.
User was warned for this post
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On February 09 2012 06:06 power-overwhelming wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:On February 09 2012 05:53 SeaSwift wrote:
MC and Parting probably have the best and second best PvT in the world, respectively. They beat 2 Terrans, one of whom has a sub-50% winrate in TvP, and suddenly PvT is broken? It has allways been a broken matchup for the entire history of Sc2 . Its just badly designed and uninteresting to watch. Yea when you got 1 unit that hardcounters everything including buildings for the other race (ghost) and a sc2 version, smart pathing, with stim + heal support dragoon version (marauder) for Terran. Terran always has more options than any other races. Terrans just got used to beating Protoss by abusing EMPs and 1/1/1s. Now that they lose in standard games it's because of balance and not skills lol.
Even if its balanced it still doesn't change the fact that the MU sucks . The roles of HT's and Ghosts are way too big.
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They said I was crazy when I liquibetted MC/Parting with strong faith. Well what do they say now? =)
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On February 09 2012 06:06 power-overwhelming wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:On February 09 2012 05:53 SeaSwift wrote:
MC and Parting probably have the best and second best PvT in the world, respectively. They beat 2 Terrans, one of whom has a sub-50% winrate in TvP, and suddenly PvT is broken? It has allways been a broken matchup for the entire history of Sc2 . Its just badly designed and uninteresting to watch. Yea when you got 1 unit that hardcounters everything including buildings for the other race (ghost) and a sc2 version, smart pathing, with stim + heal support dragoon version (marauder) for Terran. Terran always has more options than any other races. Terrans just got used to beating Protoss by abusing EMPs and 1/1/1s. Now that they lose in standard games it's because of balance and not skills lol.
You really don't understand SC2 do you?
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United States15275 Posts
On February 09 2012 06:00 Typhon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 05:18 CosmicSpiral wrote:
The cheap way to beat Protoss is to depend on mindgames and do gimmick builds. It's cheap because it's fragile and will never be consistent enough to consistently win games.
People say Inca is crap because he depends on mindgames and prep to win PvTs, but now Jjakji is top 3 TvP player because he does the same thing? TL your hypocrisy is staggering. Jjakji's tactical play is very detail-oriented. He's very rarely lazy, and he prioritizes the information game. Whether he's dropping one marine from a medi and check for HT before unloading the rest, or stimming 1 or 2 marauders to chase down a straggling sentry that wandered too far from the deathball, or positioning his army to pin the enemy army in a bad position and cut off retreat, there's a lot more to Jjakji than his unorthodox builds.
I never said Jjakji sucked.
On February 09 2012 05:54 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 05:40 CosmicSpiral wrote:On February 09 2012 05:32 babylon wrote:On February 09 2012 05:23 Poopi wrote:On February 09 2012 05:18 CosmicSpiral wrote:On February 09 2012 05:12 Poopi wrote:On February 09 2012 05:10 CosmicSpiral wrote:On February 09 2012 04:44 babylon wrote:On February 09 2012 04:31 Poopi wrote:On February 09 2012 04:11 SwizzY wrote:
[quote]
Like it's supposed to?
Stop throwing around absolutes unless you are a Korean, at minimum Code B, logging 25+ games a day. Anything lower and you better get a flame-retardant suit instead of that measly umbrella of "flame me all you want."
Think about it though. Are either Jjakji or GanZi known for their amazing TvP? *Insert resounding* NO. Jjakji is pretty decent but GanZi is downright terrible.
They got handled by one TvP GOD in MC and another known for OUTSTANDING TvP against Terrans like Clide, NaDa, TOP, and now Jjakji. Don't throw out balance whine with such baseless accusations.
On note...... MC!!!! :D))))) -}-< Lol ? Jjakji is one of the best TvPers we have. Jjakji, MKP, Polt. These three are presumably the best TvP there are right now Polt's TvP hasn't looked good vs. strong Ps in a long time. The top three are probably Jjakji, MKP (though he hasn't shown TvP games in Korea since WCG), and .... aLive maybe? MMA? MVP? It's a sad day when MMA's a contender for Top 5 TvPs, but he's been having some surprisingly good results in it lately. lolwut are you smoking something? Jjakji's TvP is based on gimmicky builds. Alive's success was completely centered on extremely heavy early pressure. Polt is possibly the only Korean Terran who knows how to play a macro TvP. You should try to TvP ^^. The better way to beat protoss is to win with a lot of different gimmicky / mindgames based builds. Whatever build, strat, or anything you use to win TvP, makes you a good TvPer. The cheap way to beat Protoss is to depend on mindgames and do gimmick builds. It's cheap because it's fragile and will never be consistent enough to consistently win games. People say Inca is crap because he depends on mindgames and prep to win PvTs, but now Jjakji is top 3 TvP player because he does the same thing? TL your hypocrisy is staggering. What lolwut? People hate InCa because all he does is DT and counter "anti-DT' builds, and the fact that he eliminated LosirA and Polt by playing "hmm we will say bad LOL" against Zenio. Jjakji does not rely on gimmicks only, he uses them to allow himself to win a TvP series. If you think that Polt only does standart games in a TvP series, you are fooling yourself Yeah, I'm pretty sure Polt's the guy who's infamous for timings and early aggressive pushes designed to cripple the Protoss before they get into a macro game. I'm a Polt fan. He is one of my favorite Terrans. But there's a reason why people poked fun at him saying, "Oh, look, he's evolving from one-base timing pushes into two-base timing pushes!" The only player who's ever preferred to play macro TvP consistently is Bomber, with great success at first, but now that everyone's caught onto the fact that that's his go-to strategy, they just kill him. Which was back...during the Super Tournament? Bomber never really played "macro" Terran. His go-to strategy was powering hard off 2 base and overrunning his opponent with marine/marauder. Did you only watch games on Crossfire or something? His favorite strategy was to build a really fast third command center, either in his main or hidden somewhere and then roll over his opponent by getting to 200/200 MMMGV faster than other Terrans.
I remember him making a fast third orbital...then using it to power off 2 bases.
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Sick games today. MC is the boss of 2base play.
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Perfect liquibet based solely on my opinion of the current state of TvP.
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On February 08 2012 19:55 Roe wrote:
protip: never expand in pvp
When Mc expands, he wins.
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wow game 1 of the final set (and even 2nd set)
were pretty fucking awesome!
jjakji and parting make PvT awesome
the battles were SO long, none of that 5 second battle shit
like on cloud kingdom at parting's fourth in the center, that battle was SO LONG continuous back and forth and lots of reinforcements
Parting had so many storms it looked like he had khaydarin amulet!
That was insane, they were both flanking each other's flanks, fucking epic
i'm sad jjakji lost tho... same with ganzi
but MC advanced, yay. And parting is pretty cool. I wanted all 4 to advance though T_T
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Damn while MC definitely deserved to go through to Ro8 via his play I feel that PartinG and Jjakji would have had better chances against the players and also would have put out much more entertaining games...
But Jjakji vs PartinG was sooooo sick, both of the series ^.^
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MC continues to be the least interesting player in the entire SC2 scene.
Obviously play to win, that's fine for him, but how do people enjoy watching his games?
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Why are people basing this off of balance? Put two pretty bad TvPers against MC who has the best PvT and Parting who has a pretty good PvT and obviously the P's will win.
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On February 09 2012 06:42 Kluey wrote:
Why are people basing this off of balance? Put two pretty bad TvPers against MC who has the best PvT and Parting who has a pretty good PvT and obviously the P's will win.
Ganzi's TvP is bad but if Jjakji's suddenly has a bad TvP after beeing the only Terran last season who actually looked decent in TvP is now bad idk how actually is good at the MU ? The sad truth is nobody is confident in TvP that goes beyond anymore.
Jjakji made the mistake of playing too much straight up in my mind . You need to at least throw in some gimmicky stuff in a series so the oppoent doesn't know what to expect of you.
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On February 09 2012 06:42 Kluey wrote:
Why are people basing this off of balance? Put two pretty bad TvPers against MC who has the best PvT and Parting who has a pretty good PvT and obviously the P's will win.
Jjakji's PvT isn't anywhere near bad...
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On February 09 2012 06:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:
MC continues to be the least interesting player in the entire SC2 scene.
Obviously play to win, that's fine for him, but how do people enjoy watching his games?
Well Mc has a lot of fans and you do not need to worry about this.
Mc does play beautiful games but you need to give him a good enough opponent who is able to survive from his early aggression.
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On February 09 2012 06:06 power-overwhelming wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:On February 09 2012 05:53 SeaSwift wrote:
MC and Parting probably have the best and second best PvT in the world, respectively. They beat 2 Terrans, one of whom has a sub-50% winrate in TvP, and suddenly PvT is broken? It has allways been a broken matchup for the entire history of Sc2 . Its just badly designed and uninteresting to watch. Yea when you got 1 unit that hardcounters everything including buildings for the other race (ghost) and a sc2 version, smart pathing, with stim + heal support dragoon version (marauder) for Terran. Terran always has more options than any other races. Terrans just got used to beating Protoss by abusing EMPs and 1/1/1s. Now that they lose in standard games it's because of balance and not skills lol.
More options in tvp? Really? I thought everyone knew that if you were going to play macro you HAD to go MMMGV
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On February 09 2012 06:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:
MC continues to be the least interesting player in the entire SC2 scene.
Obviously play to win, that's fine for him, but how do people enjoy watching his games? If you mean that overall, you're completely wrong because his personality is more interesting than almost ANY other player in sc2. in terms of playstyle, i'm guessing you find inca and bitbybit's playstyles better?
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Sick sick series between Parting and Jjakji.
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Watching Parting vs Jjakji I can't help but feel something has to change in how Terran is approaching the end game.
Jjakji was playing a fantastic game, but he was banking 3k gas. Everyone says gas is the most important resource, and yet Terran can't spend it with MMMGV.
Parting always had both resources low. I don't find it surprising that when the Terran army is smaller by at least 3k resources, and the 'most important' resource at that, that they lose.
Obviously I don't know what the answer is, but clearly something needs to change in that composition so that the gas can be used more effectively from mid game on.
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Wohoo! Sad zealot is happy! 
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EPT
