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[GSL] 2012 Season 1 Code S Ro16 Group C - Page 162

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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power-overwhelming
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada306 Posts
February 08 2012 21:06 GMT
#3221
On February 09 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 05:53 SeaSwift wrote:
MC and Parting probably have the best and second best PvT in the world, respectively. They beat 2 Terrans, one of whom has a sub-50% winrate in TvP, and suddenly PvT is broken?


It has allways been a broken matchup for the entire history of Sc2 . Its just badly designed and uninteresting to watch.


Yea when you got 1 unit that hardcounters everything including buildings for the other race (ghost) and a sc2 version, smart pathing, with stim + heal support dragoon version (marauder) for Terran.

Terran always has more options than any other races. Terrans just got used to beating Protoss by abusing EMPs and 1/1/1s. Now that they lose in standard games it's because of balance and not skills lol.

User was warned for this post
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 21:09:27
February 08 2012 21:07 GMT
#3222
On February 09 2012 06:06 power-overwhelming wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:
On February 09 2012 05:53 SeaSwift wrote:
MC and Parting probably have the best and second best PvT in the world, respectively. They beat 2 Terrans, one of whom has a sub-50% winrate in TvP, and suddenly PvT is broken?


It has allways been a broken matchup for the entire history of Sc2 . Its just badly designed and uninteresting to watch.


Yea when you got 1 unit that hardcounters everything including buildings for the other race (ghost) and a sc2 version, smart pathing, with stim + heal support dragoon version (marauder) for Terran.

Terran always has more options than any other races. Terrans just got used to beating Protoss by abusing EMPs and 1/1/1s. Now that they lose in standard games it's because of balance and not skills lol.


Even if its balanced it still doesn't change the fact that the MU sucks . The roles of HT's and Ghosts are way too big.
Share_The_Land
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada152 Posts
February 08 2012 21:07 GMT
#3223
They said I was crazy when I liquibetted MC/Parting with strong faith. Well what do they say now? =)
"Turns out he's a former Counterstrike pro and grabs his ak!" - Tasteless
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
February 08 2012 21:07 GMT
#3224
On February 09 2012 06:06 power-overwhelming wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:
On February 09 2012 05:53 SeaSwift wrote:
MC and Parting probably have the best and second best PvT in the world, respectively. They beat 2 Terrans, one of whom has a sub-50% winrate in TvP, and suddenly PvT is broken?


It has allways been a broken matchup for the entire history of Sc2 . Its just badly designed and uninteresting to watch.


Yea when you got 1 unit that hardcounters everything including buildings for the other race (ghost) and a sc2 version, smart pathing, with stim + heal support dragoon version (marauder) for Terran.

Terran always has more options than any other races. Terrans just got used to beating Protoss by abusing EMPs and 1/1/1s. Now that they lose in standard games it's because of balance and not skills lol.

You really don't understand SC2 do you?
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
February 08 2012 21:08 GMT
#3225
On February 09 2012 06:00 Typhon wrote:

Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 05:18 CosmicSpiral wrote:
The cheap way to beat Protoss is to depend on mindgames and do gimmick builds. It's cheap because it's fragile and will never be consistent enough to consistently win games.

People say Inca is crap because he depends on mindgames and prep to win PvTs, but now Jjakji is top 3 TvP player because he does the same thing? TL your hypocrisy is staggering.


Jjakji's tactical play is very detail-oriented. He's very rarely lazy, and he prioritizes the information game. Whether he's dropping one marine from a medi and check for HT before unloading the rest, or stimming 1 or 2 marauders to chase down a straggling sentry that wandered too far from the deathball, or positioning his army to pin the enemy army in a bad position and cut off retreat, there's a lot more to Jjakji than his unorthodox builds.


I never said Jjakji sucked.

On February 09 2012 05:54 iamke55 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 05:40 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On February 09 2012 05:32 babylon wrote:
On February 09 2012 05:23 Poopi wrote:
On February 09 2012 05:18 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On February 09 2012 05:12 Poopi wrote:
On February 09 2012 05:10 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On February 09 2012 04:44 babylon wrote:
On February 09 2012 04:31 Poopi wrote:
On February 09 2012 04:11 SwizzY wrote:
[quote]

Like it's supposed to?

Stop throwing around absolutes unless you are a Korean, at minimum Code B, logging 25+ games a day. Anything lower and you better get a flame-retardant suit instead of that measly umbrella of "flame me all you want."

Think about it though. Are either Jjakji or GanZi known for their amazing TvP? *Insert resounding* NO. Jjakji is pretty decent but GanZi is downright terrible.
They got handled by one TvP GOD in MC and another known for OUTSTANDING TvP against Terrans like Clide, NaDa, TOP, and now Jjakji. Don't throw out balance whine with such baseless accusations.

On note...... MC!!!! :D))))) -}-<

Lol ?
Jjakji is one of the best TvPers we have.
Jjakji, MKP, Polt. These three are presumably the best TvP there are right now

Polt's TvP hasn't looked good vs. strong Ps in a long time. The top three are probably Jjakji, MKP (though he hasn't shown TvP games in Korea since WCG), and .... aLive maybe? MMA? MVP? It's a sad day when MMA's a contender for Top 5 TvPs, but he's been having some surprisingly good results in it lately.


lolwut are you smoking something?

Jjakji's TvP is based on gimmicky builds. Alive's success was completely centered on extremely heavy early pressure. Polt is possibly the only Korean Terran who knows how to play a macro TvP.

You should try to TvP ^^.
The better way to beat protoss is to win with a lot of different gimmicky / mindgames based builds.
Whatever build, strat, or anything you use to win TvP, makes you a good TvPer.


The cheap way to beat Protoss is to depend on mindgames and do gimmick builds. It's cheap because it's fragile and will never be consistent enough to consistently win games.

People say Inca is crap because he depends on mindgames and prep to win PvTs, but now Jjakji is top 3 TvP player because he does the same thing? TL your hypocrisy is staggering.

What lolwut?
People hate InCa because all he does is DT and counter "anti-DT' builds, and the fact that he eliminated LosirA and Polt by playing "hmm we will say bad LOL" against Zenio.
Jjakji does not rely on gimmicks only, he uses them to allow himself to win a TvP series.
If you think that Polt only does standart games in a TvP series, you are fooling yourself

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Polt's the guy who's infamous for timings and early aggressive pushes designed to cripple the Protoss before they get into a macro game.

I'm a Polt fan. He is one of my favorite Terrans. But there's a reason why people poked fun at him saying, "Oh, look, he's evolving from one-base timing pushes into two-base timing pushes!"

The only player who's ever preferred to play macro TvP consistently is Bomber, with great success at first, but now that everyone's caught onto the fact that that's his go-to strategy, they just kill him.


Which was back...during the Super Tournament?

Bomber never really played "macro" Terran. His go-to strategy was powering hard off 2 base and overrunning his opponent with marine/marauder.

Did you only watch games on Crossfire or something? His favorite strategy was to build a really fast third command center, either in his main or hidden somewhere and then roll over his opponent by getting to 200/200 MMMGV faster than other Terrans.


I remember him making a fast third orbital...then using it to power off 2 bases.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
SnipedSoul
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2158 Posts
February 08 2012 21:11 GMT
#3226
Sick games today. MC is the boss of 2base play.
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
February 08 2012 21:14 GMT
#3227
Perfect liquibet based solely on my opinion of the current state of TvP.
double620
Profile Joined July 2011
China804 Posts
February 08 2012 21:28 GMT
#3228
On February 08 2012 19:55 Roe wrote:
protip: never expand in pvp


When Mc expands, he wins.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10366 Posts
February 08 2012 21:30 GMT
#3229
wow game 1 of the final set (and even 2nd set)

were pretty fucking awesome!

jjakji and parting make PvT awesome

the battles were SO long, none of that 5 second battle shit

like on cloud kingdom at parting's fourth in the center, that battle was SO LONG continuous back and forth and lots of reinforcements

Parting had so many storms it looked like he had khaydarin amulet!

That was insane, they were both flanking each other's flanks, fucking epic

i'm sad jjakji lost tho... same with ganzi

but MC advanced, yay. And parting is pretty cool. I wanted all 4 to advance though T_T
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
NexUmbra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Scotland3776 Posts
February 08 2012 21:32 GMT
#3230
Damn while MC definitely deserved to go through to Ro8 via his play I feel that PartinG and Jjakji would have had better chances against the players and also would have put out much more entertaining games...

But Jjakji vs PartinG was sooooo sick, both of the series ^.^
Life has won two GSLs and a Blizzard Cup. NOT three GSLs.
FuzzyJAM
Profile Joined July 2010
Scotland9300 Posts
February 08 2012 21:40 GMT
#3231
MC continues to be the least interesting player in the entire SC2 scene.

Obviously play to win, that's fine for him, but how do people enjoy watching his games?
Did you ever say Yes to a single joy?
Kluey
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada1197 Posts
February 08 2012 21:42 GMT
#3232
Why are people basing this off of balance? Put two pretty bad TvPers against MC who has the best PvT and Parting who has a pretty good PvT and obviously the P's will win.
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 21:51:38
February 08 2012 21:47 GMT
#3233
On February 09 2012 06:42 Kluey wrote:
Why are people basing this off of balance? Put two pretty bad TvPers against MC who has the best PvT and Parting who has a pretty good PvT and obviously the P's will win.


Ganzi's TvP is bad but if Jjakji's suddenly has a bad TvP after beeing the only Terran last season who actually looked decent in TvP is now bad idk how actually is good at the MU ? The sad truth is nobody is confident in TvP that goes beyond anymore.
Jjakji made the mistake of playing too much straight up in my mind . You need to at least throw in some gimmicky stuff in a series so the oppoent doesn't know what to expect of you.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
February 08 2012 21:47 GMT
#3234
On February 09 2012 06:42 Kluey wrote:
Why are people basing this off of balance? Put two pretty bad TvPers against MC who has the best PvT and Parting who has a pretty good PvT and obviously the P's will win.


Jjakji's PvT isn't anywhere near bad...
double620
Profile Joined July 2011
China804 Posts
February 08 2012 21:50 GMT
#3235
On February 09 2012 06:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:
MC continues to be the least interesting player in the entire SC2 scene.

Obviously play to win, that's fine for him, but how do people enjoy watching his games?



Well Mc has a lot of fans and you do not need to worry about this.
Mc does play beautiful games but you need to give him a good enough opponent who is able to survive from his early aggression.
IMoperator
Profile Joined October 2011
4476 Posts
February 08 2012 22:03 GMT
#3236
On February 09 2012 06:06 power-overwhelming wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 06:02 s3rp wrote:
On February 09 2012 05:53 SeaSwift wrote:
MC and Parting probably have the best and second best PvT in the world, respectively. They beat 2 Terrans, one of whom has a sub-50% winrate in TvP, and suddenly PvT is broken?


It has allways been a broken matchup for the entire history of Sc2 . Its just badly designed and uninteresting to watch.


Yea when you got 1 unit that hardcounters everything including buildings for the other race (ghost) and a sc2 version, smart pathing, with stim + heal support dragoon version (marauder) for Terran.

Terran always has more options than any other races. Terrans just got used to beating Protoss by abusing EMPs and 1/1/1s. Now that they lose in standard games it's because of balance and not skills lol.

More options in tvp? Really? I thought everyone knew that if you were going to play macro you HAD to go MMMGV
jkang
Profile Joined May 2011
United States404 Posts
February 08 2012 22:04 GMT
#3237
On February 09 2012 06:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:
MC continues to be the least interesting player in the entire SC2 scene.

Obviously play to win, that's fine for him, but how do people enjoy watching his games?
If you mean that overall, you're completely wrong because his personality is more interesting than almost ANY other player in sc2. in terms of playstyle, i'm guessing you find inca and bitbybit's playstyles better?
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
February 08 2012 22:09 GMT
#3238
Sick sick series between Parting and Jjakji.
Chicken gank op
Kharnage
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia920 Posts
February 08 2012 22:10 GMT
#3239
Watching Parting vs Jjakji I can't help but feel something has to change in how Terran is approaching the end game.

Jjakji was playing a fantastic game, but he was banking 3k gas. Everyone says gas is the most important resource, and yet Terran can't spend it with MMMGV.
Parting always had both resources low. I don't find it surprising that when the Terran army is smaller by at least 3k resources, and the 'most important' resource at that, that they lose.

Obviously I don't know what the answer is, but clearly something needs to change in that composition so that the gas can be used more effectively from mid game on.
ravemir
Profile Joined April 2011
Portugal595 Posts
February 08 2012 22:14 GMT
#3240
Wohoo! Sad zealot is happy!
"more gg, more skill"
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