EPT[GSL] 2012 Season 1 Code S Ro16 Group C - Page 148
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Arcanne
United States1519 Posts
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Corrosive
Canada3741 Posts
On February 08 2012 21:52 ChaosTerran wrote: doesn't matter, because protoss doesnt have to micro. you can spend your time casting guardian shield and storms a move zealots and then go surf reddit or TL. You're an idiot. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
Come on we see this all the damn time on pro streams. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On February 08 2012 21:51 Destructicon wrote: While I love the fact that PvT has actually evolved and gotten out of the 1 base and 2 base all-in phase, and toss has learned how to macro and defend drops. It seems a bit, disheartening to see that no terran has actually won a straight up macro game against a Protoss in this GSL season, with all things being equal. I've watched all games this GSL season, and I don't want terrans resorting to strictly 1 or 2 base attacks, the same way Toss has, just to win, I'd like it if both sides had equal chances to win late game as well as early and mid game. Hopefully this is just a temporary play and people figure something out late-game TvP. Again, it may also be a map problem, maybe maps now are favoring Toss way more than in the past, because everyone went and ran scared that toss wasn't winning anything, so they build super friendly FE maps. As long as the match up stays bio vs gateway/colo/ht, terran is proned to not be able to win a fight by a margin sufficient to kill the reinforcement. It's just not possible to be that efficient. Maybe we'll see some transitions (bc ?) or more probably heavy nuke play in order to get lucky one time. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On February 08 2012 21:52 ChaosTerran wrote: doesn't matter, because protoss doesnt have to micro. you can spend your time casting guardian shield and storms a move zealots and then go surf reddit or TL. There is really. No single part of this thats correct in any way, sorry. | ||
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ChaosTerran
Austria844 Posts
Good point. Pretty much exactly proves my point though. You know what people do when they run out of arguments and realize they are wrong? They resort to ad hominem attacks. well played sir. On February 08 2012 21:54 Medrea wrote: There is really. No single part of this thats correct in any way, sorry. Just because you claim that what I say is incorrect, doesnt mean it's incorrect... that's not a basis for any argument... ever. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On February 08 2012 07:26 MrCon wrote: Ganzi > MC Jjakji > Parting Ganzi > Jjakji Mark my words, they are wise. Perfect predictions  | ||
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alpsi
Finland437 Posts
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
On February 08 2012 21:55 ChaosTerran wrote: Good point. Pretty much exactly proves my point though. You know what people do when they run out of arguments and realize they are wrong? They resort to ad hominem attacks. well played sir. Its very hard to take you seriously, with all the hyperbole and all. It could be just me though | ||
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bubl100500
Ukraine538 Posts
On February 08 2012 21:51 Destructicon wrote: I've watched all games this GSL season, and I don't want terrans resorting to strictly 1 or 2 base attacks, the same way Toss has, just to win, I'd like it if both sides had equal chances to win late game as well as early and mid game. Well this is pretty much the biggest problem for sc2. Even if statistically it can be balanced, but actually it is one race winning early game and other late game or something like that! | ||
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Megaman_X
United States164 Posts
On February 08 2012 21:48 Bagi wrote: They hard counter gateway units but get absolutely demolished by immortal/colossus. actually no they dont, not if they're upgraded. 3-3 thors(massed) will dominate 3-3 collosi and do ok against immortals because of the range difference. Try it out yourself. Thors get exponentially effective with increasing upgradess. However, reaching this state of the game is probably impossibl. | ||
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Blitzer
Australia243 Posts
Can't understand the Terran players complaining, when you consider that only 3 out of 32 finalists in GSL has been protoss so far and there hasn't been a protoss in the finals for probably what 6 months whilst there has been at least 1 terran (sometimes 2) in almost every final from the moment GSL began up until now . Do people realise in a 'balanced' game, that more than just their own race will actually win at some point? Frankly the amount of terrans in code S is disgusting and has been for a long time, I'm hoping for a more even race distribution next season. | ||
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PapaJed
Sweden211 Posts
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FidoDido
United States1292 Posts
On February 08 2012 21:55 Jojo131 wrote: Its very hard to take you seriously, with all the hyperbole and all. It could be just me though It's just you. He's just getting trolled by the same old people. Forum QQ aside, it's great to see protoss advance in the GSL nowadays, because for me, a non-progamer terran, it just means DK won't be nerfing terran in the upcoming patches. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
Parting played great yes...in some instances...that does not mean there's not a problem with the match-up, especially when it comes to late game or 2 base forcefield/immortal all-ins. People are too touchy when it comes to balance stuff. There is obviously a huge problem lategame TvP that is not being addressed and it's only starting to crop up now because the overall level of protoss players has reached the point where it's now very abusable and easy to see how messed up it is. That does not mean Parting didn't play good...so please don't interpret my opinion as me thinking parting did not play well. He played PvT exactly how you are supposed to play it right now - get to 3 bases 6 gas with 3/0/3 and turtle with templar + mass chargelot/archon warp-ins while killing Terran's freshest base and taking +1 new base themself and cannoning it up. Jjakji had no answer it's true. The commentators even had their mouths agape at points wondering wtf "how is parting doing this" essentially. Every Terran pro/gm/high level player you talk to will tell you there is a huge problem late game in TvP for Terran right now, something known as "imbalance." These games were a demonstration of exactly that problem. I think it's fine to talk about it if people don't just blatantly flame someone else, right? Instead of being touchy, reference the actual games and what happened? Because these games are the PERFECT demonstration of what every pro Terran player has been talking about the past month or so (actually last few months). Does it mean there's no answer to this lategame protoss "imbalance?" Theoretically, the answer is (and artosis in his cast even said this at one point as well) that at the tip top level of TvP/PvT both players theoretically CAN'T attack each other. It makes for an insanely dumb late game where both players are sitting there because the Terran cannot break the Protoss because of cannons/feedbacking drops/mass chargelot warp-ins, and the Protoss cannot break the Terran because of planetary walls/emps/defensive nukes/vikings... The only problem is if you get to this lategame if Protoss wins the big battle, they win the game automatically from instant reinforcements, whereas if Terran wins the battle, Protoss is STILL in the game due to defensive warp-ins + defensive storms. If Terran loses, his units are being produced in the barracks so he loses his freshest mining base and slowly loses the game. And even then, as a Terran you cannot put that turtle vs turtle lategame theory into practice unless it's a map that you can split in half securely. What's wrong with discussing these aspects of the match-up? These games just played were RIDICULOUS in many senses of the word. + Show Spoiler + Even so, for people that watched the game 1 of the last series between parting/jjakji, it's insanely hard to justify/defend a player that basically loses 160 supply for free, and then is still in the game and then wins the game vs a player that kept 80% of their army alive...that is a bit fucking crazy. | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On February 08 2012 21:56 PapaJed wrote: MMA last terran hope (sry alive/gumiho/mkp, you are not prepared). Go MMA! Alive is really, really good. | ||
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PapaJed
Sweden211 Posts
On February 08 2012 21:56 Megaman_X wrote: actually no they dont, not if they're upgraded. 3-3 thors(massed) will dominate 3-3 collosi and do ok against immortals because of the range difference. Try it out yourself. Thors get exponentially effective with increasing upgradess. However, reaching this state of the game is probably impossibl. chargelots? | ||
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beute
Germany197 Posts
On February 08 2012 21:35 PapaJed wrote: I was not clear in my post, I only meant the final engagement with the archons/zealots running after the T army. not the ghost-wipe. My bad. so what? he had more stuff and there is NOTHING you can do against a kiting terran army but a moving.. what are you suggesting he should do with zealots and archons? hell, even if he had templars standing nearby, it's not like they will ever get a storm off on a stimpak kiting terran army... he had more stuff and it made sense to chase the terran all the way back, there werent that many medivacs and thus chasing a terran army still deals a lot of dmg even if you dont get a lot of hits off since stimpack isnt healed back up fast enough. | ||
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ChaosTerran
Austria844 Posts
On February 08 2012 21:56 Megaman_X wrote: actually no they dont, not if they're upgraded. 3-3 thors(massed) will dominate 3-3 collosi and do ok against immortals because of the range difference. Try it out yourself. Thors get exponentially effective with increasing upgradess. However, reaching this state of the game is probably impossibl. In what world do Thors counter chargelots? Thors get absolutely destroyed by chargelots with next to no losses for the protoss player. And Thors good against immortals? yeah.... nope. | ||
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secretary bird
447 Posts
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