On December 17 2011 22:44 Giriath wrote: , and surely it doesn't take "obviously superior knowledge" to admit that DRG running two T3 armies to their death, and MMA not doing anything to further his advantage after canceling the fourth hatch was what made this otherwise great game less than what most of you are saying it is.
Where MVP or even Jjakji would have at least either expanded or made ghosts in a three vs three expansions situation like this one, MMA set up his defense and let it sit there until DRG could easily run it over with his T3 army. Then, instead of keeping his Ultras on MMA's side of the map, but outside his bases, and expanding and making a few broodlords/corruptors to kill MMA's third, he split them up, ran up ramps and got them all trapped and killed. Then he made broodlords, and got them all killed too.
You have some really weird conception of "poking fun" 0_o
Being amused by a community that often harshly and without fail points out mistakes in any match, but not a (finally) good finals between some of the biggest fan-favorites of said community, instead lauding it as the "best match ever" and "perfect".
Then poking at it with this amusing fact to see how it responds, for even more amusement.
On December 17 2011 22:20 Giriath wrote: DRG doesn't pay attention to his minimap for a whole minute, where a drop is in plain sight. Has to cancel his fourth.
No. It wasn't in plain sight because morphing hatches don't give you vision (I assume based on your obviously superior knowledge you're aware of this). He saw it with his overlords, then saw it move back as if to return home. MMA changed direction and dropped the marines outside of overlord range, where he had sight of the hatch, but DRG did not.
He had zerglings there and had vision of one marine, as the observer so kindly showed us.
Anyway, I'm intentionally poking fun, and surely it doesn't take "obviously superior knowledge" to admit that DRG running two T3 armies to their death, and MMA not doing anything to further his advantage after canceling the fourth hatch was what made this otherwise great game less than what most of you are saying it is.
Where MVP or even Jjakji would have at least either expanded or made ghosts in a three vs three expansions situation like this one, MMA set up his defense and let it sit there until DRG could easily run it over with his T3 army. Then, instead of keeping his Ultras on MMA's side of the map, but outside his bases, and expanding and making a few broodlords/corruptors to kill MMA's third, he split them up, ran up ramps and got them all trapped and killed. Then he made broodlords, and got them all killed too.
I agree if MMA was Flash he would of won. But if DRG was Jangbi he would of won instead.
errr mistakes don't make a game bad. When good players play each other in a mental game, they induce mistakes, and mma's multitasking is one of the biggest forces that causes players to fall apart in the GSL. It's not hard to appreciate or understand.
Man MMA stimming those marines forward to kill all the corruptors so his vikings had free reign was ballsy as fuck, wouldn't want to be one of those marines
On December 17 2011 22:46 SeaSwift wrote: First you start with this:
On December 17 2011 22:44 Giriath wrote: Anyway, I'm intentionally poking fun
Then you write this:
On December 17 2011 22:44 Giriath wrote: , and surely it doesn't take "obviously superior knowledge" to admit that DRG running two T3 armies to their death, and MMA not doing anything to further his advantage after canceling the fourth hatch was what made this otherwise great game less than what most of you are saying it is.
Where MVP or even Jjakji would have at least either expanded or made ghosts in a three vs three expansions situation like this one, MMA set up his defense and let it sit there until DRG could easily run it over with his T3 army. Then, instead of keeping his Ultras on MMA's side of the map, but outside his bases, and expanding and making a few broodlords/corruptors to kill MMA's third, he split them up, ran up ramps and got them all trapped and killed. Then he made broodlords, and got them all killed too.
You have some really weird conception of "poking fun" 0_o
Being amused by a community that often harshly and without fail points out mistakes in any match, but not a (finally) good finals between some of the biggest fan-favorites of said community, instead lauding it as the "best match ever" and "perfect".
Then poking at it with this amusing fact to see how it responds, for even more amusement.
I've had a grin on my face for the past fifteen minutes, and it's not necessarily because the final set satisfied me.
I rarely even post here, but it's also a pathetically egotistical stance that is in reality as much subject to flawed interpretation as the other side. So while you're there grinning I'm here shaking my head in shame.
Anyways, good finals. After missing out on the supposedly awesome jjakji vs leenock finals, I'm glad I didn't miss this one.
On December 17 2011 22:20 Giriath wrote: DRG doesn't pay attention to his minimap for a whole minute, where a drop is in plain sight. Has to cancel his fourth.
No. It wasn't in plain sight because morphing hatches don't give you vision (I assume based on your obviously superior knowledge you're aware of this). He saw it with his overlords, then saw it move back as if to return home. MMA changed direction and dropped the marines outside of overlord range, where he had sight of the hatch, but DRG did not.
He had zerglings there and had vision of one marine, as the observer so kindly showed us.
Anyway, I'm intentionally poking fun, and surely it doesn't take "obviously superior knowledge" to admit that DRG running two T3 armies to their death, and MMA not doing anything to further his advantage after canceling the fourth hatch was what made this otherwise great game less than what most of you are saying it is.
Where MVP or even Jjakji would have at least either expanded or made ghosts in a three vs three expansions situation like this one, MMA set up his defense and let it sit there until DRG could easily run it over with his T3 army. Then, instead of keeping his Ultras on MMA's side of the map, but outside his bases, and expanding and making a few broodlords/corruptors to kill MMA's third, he split them up, ran up ramps and got them all trapped and killed. Then he made broodlords, and got them all killed too.
I agree if MMA was Flash he would of won. But if DRG was Jangbi he would of won instead.
Man what a confusing situation.
If MMA was Flash he might not even know that he can select more than 12 units... Same goes for Jangbi
Game 7 was far from the most perfect game, but it was damn hell the most intense, dramatic and action-packed game played at the very highest level and was near flawless.
I often make this contrast between Mvp and MMA. Mvp is a solid player who wins by just being better than the other player at a standard straight up game. MMA on the other hand while more mistake prone, makes up for it with clutch and exciting plays. He's the type of person who usually either loses in disappointing fashion or wins in spectacular fashion.
On December 17 2011 22:20 Giriath wrote: DRG doesn't pay attention to his minimap for a whole minute, where a drop is in plain sight. Has to cancel his fourth.
No. It wasn't in plain sight because morphing hatches don't give you vision (I assume based on your obviously superior knowledge you're aware of this). He saw it with his overlords, then saw it move back as if to return home. MMA changed direction and dropped the marines outside of overlord range, where he had sight of the hatch, but DRG did not.
He had zerglings there and had vision of one marine, as the observer so kindly showed us.
Anyway, I'm intentionally poking fun, and surely it doesn't take "obviously superior knowledge" to admit that DRG running two T3 armies to their death, and MMA not doing anything to further his advantage after canceling the fourth hatch was what made this otherwise great game less than what most of you are saying it is.
Where MVP or even Jjakji would have at least either expanded or made ghosts in a three vs three expansions situation like this one, MMA set up his defense and let it sit there until DRG could easily run it over with his T3 army. Then, instead of keeping his Ultras on MMA's side of the map, but outside his bases, and expanding and making a few broodlords/corruptors to kill MMA's third, he split them up, ran up ramps and got them all trapped and killed. Then he made broodlords, and got them all killed too.
I agree if MMA was Flash he would of won. But if DRG was Jangbi he would of won instead.
Man what a confusing situation.
I consider Jjakji and MVP's late-game TvZ better than MMA, who almost always tries to win it with relatively few expansions and no ghosts.
As for Zerg, I'd say Leenock's late-game ZvT is better than DRG's, but by a smaller margin than Jjakji and MVP compared to MMA--Leenock also has a habit of engaging with his broodlords at inopportune moments, losing a big lead usually acquired in the mid-game, where he is best.
On December 17 2011 22:20 Giriath wrote: DRG doesn't pay attention to his minimap for a whole minute, where a drop is in plain sight. Has to cancel his fourth.
No. It wasn't in plain sight because morphing hatches don't give you vision (I assume based on your obviously superior knowledge you're aware of this). He saw it with his overlords, then saw it move back as if to return home. MMA changed direction and dropped the marines outside of overlord range, where he had sight of the hatch, but DRG did not.
He had zerglings there and had vision of one marine, as the observer so kindly showed us.
Anyway, I'm intentionally poking fun, and surely it doesn't take "obviously superior knowledge" to admit that DRG running two T3 armies to their death, and MMA not doing anything to further his advantage after canceling the fourth hatch was what made this otherwise great game less than what most of you are saying it is.
Where MVP or even Jjakji would have at least either expanded or made ghosts in a three vs three expansions situation like this one, MMA set up his defense and let it sit there until DRG could easily run it over with his T3 army. Then, instead of keeping his Ultras on MMA's side of the map, but outside his bases, and expanding and making a few broodlords/corruptors to kill MMA's third, he split them up, ran up ramps and got them all trapped and killed. Then he made broodlords, and got them all killed too.
I agree if MMA was Flash he would of won. But if DRG was Jangbi he would of won instead.
Man what a confusing situation.
If MMA was Flash he might not even know that he can select more than 12 units... Same goes for Jangbi
On December 17 2011 22:20 Giriath wrote: DRG doesn't pay attention to his minimap for a whole minute, where a drop is in plain sight. Has to cancel his fourth.
No. It wasn't in plain sight because morphing hatches don't give you vision (I assume based on your obviously superior knowledge you're aware of this). He saw it with his overlords, then saw it move back as if to return home. MMA changed direction and dropped the marines outside of overlord range, where he had sight of the hatch, but DRG did not.
He had zerglings there and had vision of one marine, as the observer so kindly showed us.
Anyway, I'm intentionally poking fun, and surely it doesn't take "obviously superior knowledge" to admit that DRG running two T3 armies to their death, and MMA not doing anything to further his advantage after canceling the fourth hatch was what made this otherwise great game less than what most of you are saying it is.
Where MVP or even Jjakji would have at least either expanded or made ghosts in a three vs three expansions situation like this one, MMA set up his defense and let it sit there until DRG could easily run it over with his T3 army. Then, instead of keeping his Ultras on MMA's side of the map, but outside his bases, and expanding and making a few broodlords/corruptors to kill MMA's third, he split them up, ran up ramps and got them all trapped and killed. Then he made broodlords, and got them all killed too.
I agree if MMA was Flash he would of won. But if DRG was Jangbi he would of won instead.
Man what a confusing situation.
If MMA was Flash he might not even know that he can select more than 12 units... Same goes for Jangbi
On December 17 2011 22:20 Giriath wrote: DRG doesn't pay attention to his minimap for a whole minute, where a drop is in plain sight. Has to cancel his fourth.
No. It wasn't in plain sight because morphing hatches don't give you vision (I assume based on your obviously superior knowledge you're aware of this). He saw it with his overlords, then saw it move back as if to return home. MMA changed direction and dropped the marines outside of overlord range, where he had sight of the hatch, but DRG did not.
He had zerglings there and had vision of one marine, as the observer so kindly showed us.
Anyway, I'm intentionally poking fun, and surely it doesn't take "obviously superior knowledge" to admit that DRG running two T3 armies to their death, and MMA not doing anything to further his advantage after canceling the fourth hatch was what made this otherwise great game less than what most of you are saying it is.
Where MVP or even Jjakji would have at least either expanded or made ghosts in a three vs three expansions situation like this one, MMA set up his defense and let it sit there until DRG could easily run it over with his T3 army. Then, instead of keeping his Ultras on MMA's side of the map, but outside his bases, and expanding and making a few broodlords/corruptors to kill MMA's third, he split them up, ran up ramps and got them all trapped and killed. Then he made broodlords, and got them all killed too.
I agree if MMA was Flash he would of won. But if DRG was Jangbi he would of won instead.
Man what a confusing situation.
If MMA was Flash he might not even know that he can select more than 12 units... Same goes for Jangbi
And they'd still win =(
lol... yeah that's why we see so much SC2 from them. "hey I could make some extra 100k, but you know what... I don't care..."
On December 17 2011 22:33 SeaSwift wrote: And already, we have some cool guy trying to be hipster by being different and picking apart the finals, saying they were bad.
Probably because he appreciates near-flawless play, rather than sloppy decision making.
He must also enjoy shitting all over everyone else's good time.
It was an amazing series. DongRaeGu being down 0-3, then winning 3 in a row and playing in an absolutely insane game 7 is fucking unbelievable.
I don't care if the players made mistakes. Every player in every game in sc2 history has made mistakes.
That series was the greatest finals of sc2 history, and not just because of the quality of the play.
Well shit, if you enjoyed the finals why care about what other people think of them?
On December 17 2011 22:56 SetStndbySmn wrote: errr mistakes don't make a game bad. When good players play each other in a mental game, they induce mistakes, and mma's multitasking is one of the biggest forces that causes players to fall apart in the GSL. It's not hard to appreciate or understand.
I don't consider the last set or the finals bad. It may even well be the best GSL finals ever, with such an amazing come-back situation.
I also don't think it's hard to understand that this was far from a perfect game from either player, though I can see how the tension and excitement of the finals could make one say so.
On December 17 2011 22:58 Giriath wrote: I consider Jjakji and MVP's late-game TvZ better than MMA, who almost always tries to win it with relatively few expansions and no ghosts.
As for Zerg, I'd say Leenock's late-game ZvT is better than DRG's, but by a smaller margin than Jjakji and MVP compared to MMA--Leenock also has a habit of engaging with his broodlords at inopportune moments, losing a big lead usually acquired in the mid-game, where he is best.
Uhm, no, MMA is the best lategame TvZ'er. Actually he is pretty much the expansion whore between all the players you mentioned and often ends up with the same amount or even more expansions than his Zerg opponents.
And you can't just go ghosts in the situation he was in ...you need to be safe for quite some time, which he never was.
And nobody says that it was a perfect game in the sense that both made no mistakes - such a game would be fucking boring - it was just a perfect game in the sense that it was a extremely tense, high skilled back and forth for like 45 minutes as the finishing game of such a good bo7. Mistakes make good games. And mistakes are bound to happen from both sides in such a game.
On December 17 2011 22:20 Giriath wrote: DRG doesn't pay attention to his minimap for a whole minute, where a drop is in plain sight. Has to cancel his fourth.
No. It wasn't in plain sight because morphing hatches don't give you vision (I assume based on your obviously superior knowledge you're aware of this). He saw it with his overlords, then saw it move back as if to return home. MMA changed direction and dropped the marines outside of overlord range, where he had sight of the hatch, but DRG did not.
He had zerglings there and had vision of one marine, as the observer so kindly showed us.
Anyway, I'm intentionally poking fun, and surely it doesn't take "obviously superior knowledge" to admit that DRG running two T3 armies to their death, and MMA not doing anything to further his advantage after canceling the fourth hatch was what made this otherwise great game less than what most of you are saying it is.
Where MVP or even Jjakji would have at least either expanded or made ghosts in a three vs three expansions situation like this one, MMA set up his defense and let it sit there until DRG could easily run it over with his T3 army. Then, instead of keeping his Ultras on MMA's side of the map, but outside his bases, and expanding and making a few broodlords/corruptors to kill MMA's third, he split them up, ran up ramps and got them all trapped and killed. Then he made broodlords, and got them all killed too.
I agree if MMA was Flash he would of won. But if DRG was Jangbi he would of won instead.
Man what a confusing situation.
If MMA was Flash he might not even know that he can select more than 12 units... Same goes for Jangbi
And they'd still win =(
Would of helped against Fungal. Have to agree with ^ as well.
In MMAs position it would of been nice to have Ghosts, but Ghosts need a split map stand off situation for you to mass them. The supply count constantly fluctuated from DRG to MMA. Thats not a time you start massing ghosts.
On December 17 2011 22:20 Giriath wrote: DRG doesn't pay attention to his minimap for a whole minute, where a drop is in plain sight. Has to cancel his fourth.
No. It wasn't in plain sight because morphing hatches don't give you vision (I assume based on your obviously superior knowledge you're aware of this). He saw it with his overlords, then saw it move back as if to return home. MMA changed direction and dropped the marines outside of overlord range, where he had sight of the hatch, but DRG did not.
He had zerglings there and had vision of one marine, as the observer so kindly showed us.
Anyway, I'm intentionally poking fun, and surely it doesn't take "obviously superior knowledge" to admit that DRG running two T3 armies to their death, and MMA not doing anything to further his advantage after canceling the fourth hatch was what made this otherwise great game less than what most of you are saying it is.
Where MVP or even Jjakji would have at least either expanded or made ghosts in a three vs three expansions situation like this one, MMA set up his defense and let it sit there until DRG could easily run it over with his T3 army. Then, instead of keeping his Ultras on MMA's side of the map, but outside his bases, and expanding and making a few broodlords/corruptors to kill MMA's third, he split them up, ran up ramps and got them all trapped and killed. Then he made broodlords, and got them all killed too.
I agree if MMA was Flash he would of won. But if DRG was Jangbi he would of won instead.
Man what a confusing situation.
If MMA was Flash he might not even know that he can select more than 12 units... Same goes for Jangbi
And they'd still win =(
lol... yeah that's why we see so much SC2 from them. "hey I could make some extra 100k, but you know what... I don't care..."
1. They gotta practice for BW since the skill level is so high they can't afford missing out on practice time. 2. Therefore they can't practice SC2. 3. I think if they play SC2 "officially" or whatever you would call it if they would attend GSL, their progaming license gets suspended?
On December 17 2011 22:58 Giriath wrote: I consider Jjakji and MVP's late-game TvZ better than MMA, who almost always tries to win it with relatively few expansions and no ghosts.
As for Zerg, I'd say Leenock's late-game ZvT is better than DRG's, but by a smaller margin than Jjakji and MVP compared to MMA--Leenock also has a habit of engaging with his broodlords at inopportune moments, losing a big lead usually acquired in the mid-game, where he is best.
Uhm, no, MMA is the best lategame TvZ'er. Actually he is pretty much the expansion whore between all the players you mentioned and often ends up with the same amount or even more expansions than his Zerg opponents.
And you can't just go ghosts in the situation he was in ...you need to be safe for quite some time, which he never was.
You can't say he's better late game TvZ than Mvp, they're both extremely good in different ways. but he's also being ignorant by saying that MMA doesn't play into the late game very often, when he does so very regularly against zerg.
He was under constant pressure for ages during the usual period where people would add ghosts in, so at the time I could understand why he didn't get them, but he certainly could've at some point, surely.
EPT
