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Here we go again. This weekend is about good games and good fun. Don't rain on that parade. Play nice guys. Here's the very standard and friendly:
- NO Balance Whine.
- NO Player Bashing.
- NO Caster Bashing.
- NO BM whatsoever.
Breaking these rules (from pg 166 forward) will be met with severe punishment. |
On November 22 2011 07:23 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 07:16 StarStruck wrote:
SeaSwift,
I understand what you're trying to say; however, there is very little time to prepare under this format compared to a MSL/OSL/PL. That and the openings Leenock used were primarily to delay and punish any 14 Nexus opening. In other words, Leenock wouldn't necessarily win the game right away unless the other player made a few mistakes.
Sure, Flash might find himself on the other end of a pure all-in or as I like to call, "Don't want to deal with your greedy steamroller build, SEE YA DON'T WANNA BE YA! tactic."
Early on in Flash's career he would use the 14cc opening all the time. As a result, other players found ways of punishing him for it; thus, Flash would exit the OSL/MSL prematurely. Same can be said when he lost in PL. It was Flash's Achilles Heel. Sometimes he would defend it; other times, not so much. Back then, after losing with 14cc he'd go right back to it. He wanted to make it work and he felt like he could defend it. His mindset: nothing beats my build and if they do, I will try to make it work anyway! :D
It took him a while to find his stride with such openings. Don't get me wrong, he still got good results back then, but he was nowhere near as dominant.
Flash has always been a very stubborn individual, but he deals with those situations much better now.
Ahhhh. Now I understand you - I don't know a great deal about BW, and assumed you were talking about Modern Day "I-devour-BW-souls-even-when-my-wrists-are-falling-apart" Flash (well, not any more, but hey). Was the KTF_ tag significant for it being Flash a while ago? I always thought he was on KT now. Dunno what KTF stands for ^_^ The Flash we have seen from 2010 onwards would definitely not lose 3 times in a row to something as simple as a 1/2base all-in, even given that Naniwa had less time to prepare I do think that stubbornly refusing to change build to something less clearly flawed was a big mistake and one that led to a very one-sided finals.
KTF is their old team tag. Yeah, it's been KT for a while now. Still looks strange to me! Especially when the team name went to KT FingerBooms lol.
Cheers!
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On November 22 2011 05:27 hugman wrote:The way I see it is that the series nani and leenock played had very little to do with their individual skill at SC2. It was a mind game, Naniwa didn't think Leenock would keep all-inning and every time he did it nani probably thought it was even less likely that he would do it again. Of course mind games are extremely important in high pressure matches, so Leenock deserved to win. Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 05:22 Assirra wrote:On November 22 2011 04:33 Sneakyz wrote:On November 22 2011 03:26 chosenkerrigan wrote:
I cannot believe some of you guys. Leenock had a much tougher road to the final and beat naniwa 4-1 in his worst matchup zvp. No matter the games were cheesy or not, you know there's something wrong with Naniwa if he gets 4-1ed using the same strategy again and again and again. But that's how you play in a tournament, you stick to what you practiced. In this case, Naniwa had prepared this build which he obviously thought would be safe against almost everything, including 7rr, but wasn't, since Leenock denied the double zealot scout after the first failed roach rush. So he could either use a less refined/improvised build to be safe vs 7rr but worse against everything else, or keep using the same build for a higher chance to win in all other situations. Obviously he didn't think Leenock would actually use the 7rr 3(?) times and roach pressure once, so he kept using his practiced build and lost. There is a word for only doing 1 strategy/build, 1trick pony. If you play in a tournament you should at least have a couple builds ready so you are unpredictable and can switch builds when you deem necessary. See this is what I mean. I don't think the reason he kept FFE-ing wasn't that he couldn't use any other build, he just didn't think Leenock would keep doing the same thing.
I don't think so- it seemed like he prepared for that exclusively-look how well timed a lot of his defense was- it's just that he didn't prepared enough for extreme cheese. Leenock figured out Nani's playstyle, simple as that.
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On November 22 2011 07:01 CeriseCherries wrote:Since it hasn't been said here, I wanted to say From Idra's twitter Show nested quote +Didn't skip the match vs haypro, I was in the audience watching huk play and didn't hear the call.
Thanks for posting that. I guess Idra isn't as irrational as the haters made him out to be.
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ROFL people are actually saying that Leenock didn't deserve to win??
If Naniwa had to start in open bracket then he probably wouldn't of of made it that far. In fact if there was no seeding, then 99% of the championship bracket would have been Koreans.
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On November 22 2011 07:28 Highways wrote:
ROFL people are actually saying that Leenock didn't deserve to win??
If Naniwa had to start in open bracket then he probably wouldn't of of made it that far. In fact if there was no seeding, then 99% of the championship bracket would have been Koreans.
What makes you say that? Naniwa played like a boss and took out mvp, nestea twice, huk and drg this weekend. Leenock would have had a much harder time vs nani if they faced eachother in the open bracket, because leenock wouldn't have had the chance to look at nani's previous games or discuss his openings with the other koreans. He would've had a decent chance at making it far irregardless imo. And leenock definitely deserved to win.
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![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/21johow.jpg)
User was temp banned for this post.
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there is any written interview with leenock after his win?
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On November 22 2011 07:57 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 07:28 Highways wrote:
ROFL people are actually saying that Leenock didn't deserve to win??
If Naniwa had to start in open bracket then he probably wouldn't of of made it that far. In fact if there was no seeding, then 99% of the championship bracket would have been Koreans. What makes you say that? Naniwa played like a boss and took out mvp, nestea twice, huk and drg this weekend. Leenock would have had a much harder time vs nani if they faced eachother in the open bracket, because leenock wouldn't have had the chance to look at nani's previous games or discuss his openings with the other koreans. He would've had a decent chance at making it far irregardless imo. And leenock definitely deserved to win.
Think it goes to saying both ways really. Some koreans were seeded fairly high up as well who dint really preform all that well, mma going 1-4 even tho hes suppose to have some of the best TvZ in the world for instance. Just hard to judge how players play during this tournement when they only play 2-3 series from being high seeded and some getting knocked out from the players who play extremly well coming though the open brackets.
I get the idea behind seeding suppose to matter, but i really do preffer the seeding into pool play over being placed into brackets directly.
Naniwa showed hes capable of being really good against the best in the world despite going 0-6 in GSL which shouldnt be taken away from him
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Guys, stop this "who deserved to win the finals" nonsense.
If you lose to cheese in one game, that's understandable.
If you lose to cheese 4 times in a row or whatever, there is NO EXCUSE. NONE.
If you lose to cheese 4 times in a row because you refuse to change your opening, you DEFINITELY deserve to LOSE.
It doesn't matter how great your lategame is or whatever. This isn't 10-min-no-rush or something... this is a tournament. Leenock by far deserved to win because he found a strategy that Naniwa would not react to. You're not a deserving champion if you can't win in a BO7 finals against an opponent's early game.
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On F Slasher now:
Naniwa was given a technical foul meaning in the HuK vs NaNiWa games evne though NaNiWa lost the first game HuK would be able to pick the next map.
HuK waived this advantage and then went on to lose the next two games and be knocked down to the Losers Bracket.
I know it's a mirror match up so it wouldn't make loads of difference and HuK still lost on the map he liked the most / had some strat for as he lost game three but... damn, too nice
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too bad naniwa didn't pull it off, they both played great throughout the tournament, but somehow I cant stand leenock at all :/
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On November 22 2011 08:15 Keone wrote:
Guys, stop this "who deserved to win the finals" nonsense.
If you lose to cheese in one game, that's understandable.
If you lose to cheese 4 times in a row or whatever, there is NO EXCUSE. NONE.
If you lose to cheese 4 times in a row because you refuse to change your opening, you DEFINITELY deserve to LOSE.
It doesn't matter how great your lategame is or whatever. This isn't 10-min-no-rush or something... this is a tournament. Leenock by far deserved to win because he found a strategy that Naniwa would not react to. You're not a deserving champion if you can't win in a BO7 finals against an opponent's early game.
Naniwa makes great builds, but he's not the most flexible player. He's like the old Idra, stubborn as a mule -_-. Yeah he deserved to lose. Reminds me of last MLG were Boxer almost made a comeback against Idra by cheesing him. He abused the fact that Idra is very predictable.
People need to be more like Flash. 14cc game 1 and then Proxy rax game 2.
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On November 22 2011 09:05 GinDo wrote:
[...]
People need to be more like Flash. 14cc game 1 and then Proxy rax game 2.
MVP is a bit like that, to be honest.
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Does anyone have the link and time for when JP interviewed Kennigit? Thanks for your help 
edit: Found the MLG stream but I can only watch day3 and it was on day2, how do i switch days? Thanks
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Hello everyone! Does anyone know what mouse Leenock uses? thanks! Good night everyone! 
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So does anyone know where and when the vods will be up? I couldnt watch it live, but it'd be awesome to see the vods. Cheers.
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I miss the Korean impressions threads we used to get. Is nobody going to make/translate one?
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so with leenock top8 code s save, naniwa got code s slot ?
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EPT
