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MLG Providence Day 3 Live Report Thread - Page 889

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Here we go again. This weekend is about good games and good fun. Don't rain on that parade. Play nice guys. Here's the very standard and friendly:

- NO Balance Whine.
- NO Player Bashing.
- NO Caster Bashing.
- NO BM whatsoever.

Breaking these rules (from pg 166 forward) will be met with severe punishment.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
November 22 2011 06:27 GMT
#17761
On November 22 2011 09:06 ZenithM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2011 09:05 GinDo wrote:
[...]
People need to be more like Flash. 14cc game 1 and then Proxy rax game 2.


MVP is a bit like that, to be honest.


forgg aka fin is 100% like this, double proxy mixed with hardcore macro, watch his gsl games he destroy protoss players
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
November 22 2011 06:40 GMT
#17762
On November 22 2011 09:06 ZenithM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2011 09:05 GinDo wrote:
[...]
People need to be more like Flash. 14cc game 1 and then Proxy rax game 2.


MVP is a bit like that, to be honest.



really? mvp basically does the same thing every game unless his opponent does something different first.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
November 22 2011 07:08 GMT
#17763
On November 22 2011 15:26 CoR wrote:
so with leenock top8 code s save, naniwa got code s slot ?


It's been said many times now.

Yes, Naniwa will be in code S.
artrea
Profile Joined March 2011
Latvia3560 Posts
November 22 2011 09:47 GMT
#17764
aintz, have you been watching MVP much?

He is probably the Terran with most diverse set of openings and follow-ups, equally at ease with mech and bio.
I am trying to think of something he does NOT do.

Of course, he also plays reactively when oponent leaves a glaring weakness.

in a longer series MVP will have a cheese or two to keep the opponent honest (just one example the infamous bunker rush on old Belshir), he has even done supply drop rush.
Currently, he is the person most responsible for the popularity of Proxy Marauders.
zmansman17
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2567 Posts
November 22 2011 09:52 GMT
#17765
Naniwa will be in Code S, thats Awesome!
♞ - His EKG is flattening get me a defib stat! Prepped and Ready! - ♞
wintergt
Profile Joined February 2010
Belgium1335 Posts
November 22 2011 09:58 GMT
#17766
On November 22 2011 18:52 zmansman17 wrote:
Naniwa will be in Code S, thats Awesome!

Yep, now that Huk isn't sure anymore even though he was first in his group in the first pool (a bit extreme that you're still at risk then but ok).
here i am
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-22 10:01:08
November 22 2011 09:59 GMT
#17767
Actually, from what I've seen MVP is the guy that tends to do a cheese/rush in game 1, and then go to a macro opening in the rest of the games. He rarely does 15 cc though, even on really big maps. Personally I think that's the best order. Most players do rushes for the first game anyway just so they can get that mental edge so a greedy opening is dangerous.
s3183529
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia707 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-22 11:37:03
November 22 2011 11:16 GMT
#17768
Professional gamers play to win, they are not playing to please anybody.
Like in football, Italy plays defensive hardcore and has many boring matches, but they are 4 time world cup champion. While Netherlands plays beautiful football, but they are forever losers, muahahahaha.
Besides, Koreans use early pressure and all-in all the time against Koreans, but they do not use those strats often when playing against foreigners, especially outside of Korea. I honestly think Koreans should do any strats they feel appropriate. The game does not have nay rule stating "10 min no rush" or "macro players are the better players". Defending all-in, early pressure is a skill as well, and foreigners should be able to deal with it.
NHY
Profile Joined October 2010
1013 Posts
November 22 2011 11:47 GMT
#17769
Nothing has been decided on Code S seed for next year.
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
November 22 2011 12:32 GMT
#17770
On November 22 2011 16:08 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2011 15:26 CoR wrote:
so with leenock top8 code s save, naniwa got code s slot ?


It's been said many times now.

Yes, Naniwa will be in code S.

theres no GSL invitees this time so no Code S reward imo. Even Dr. Chae didnt tweet anything about the Code S spot
Longshank
Profile Joined March 2010
1648 Posts
November 22 2011 12:57 GMT
#17771
On November 22 2011 21:32 Arceus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2011 16:08 StarStruck wrote:
On November 22 2011 15:26 CoR wrote:
so with leenock top8 code s save, naniwa got code s slot ?


It's been said many times now.

Yes, Naniwa will be in code S.

theres no GSL invitees this time so no Code S reward imo. Even Dr. Chae didnt tweet anything about the Code S spot


MLG did though, before the LB final.
MCDayC
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom14464 Posts
November 22 2011 13:18 GMT
#17772
On November 22 2011 15:40 aintz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2011 09:06 ZenithM wrote:
On November 22 2011 09:05 GinDo wrote:
[...]
People need to be more like Flash. 14cc game 1 and then Proxy rax game 2.


MVP is a bit like that, to be honest.



really? mvp basically does the same thing every game unless his opponent does something different first.

Are you serious? MVP has about a million different builds for each matchup, it's one of the things that makes him amazing.
VERY FRAGILE, LIKE A BABY PANDA EGG
Xercen
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom375 Posts
November 22 2011 16:10 GMT
#17773
On November 22 2011 06:31 SeaSwift wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2011 06:20 StarStruck wrote:

For some players it's very hard to adapt their openings on the fly especially when they are as stubborn as Naniwa. Not necessarily a bad trait to have. As I mentioned earlier, KTF_Flash is very similar: Flash would constantly use 14CC openings to gain the upper hand on his opponent. He had great success with it and he still does; however, some players would eventually punish Flash for using it as his main opening.

You see the parallelism?

Thus there is no need to be calling anyone a one trick pony in this case.


It has to be said though, after getting all-ined twice while using the same build and losing both times, Flash would have got the message, and would likely have already prepared a follow-up strategy in case his original failed.

MC in particular (no bias, honest ) is well-known for mixing up his openings vs Zerg: Sometimes 1base Stargate, sometimes FFE (nexus first or otherwise), sometimes 2/3gate expand, sometimes 1gate expand into fast Void Rays. Lately, he has been doing more FFEs but I think this is partly map dependent and partly just a trend in Protoss play.


Agreed. Naniwa just didn't have any plan B. He kept on doing FFE on every single map for some reason. I have no idea why people say naniwa is better than leenock in a macro game because if he felt that way himself then he would have gone for 3 gate expand; i.e something much safer than a blind FFE on every single map including xel naga which is prolly the worst map for it. 3 gate sentry FE would enable him to go to a macro game where naniwa would undoubtedly win according to his biased fans. Unfortunately, naniwa must have either tilted again or felt that his macro wasn't on par with leenock so he decided to go for a FEE every single game which to be honest, wasn't very strange, because naniwa always tilts in big games. He is a top player no doubt (definately code S level) but i remember he lost vs thorzain and huk in those big finals because he lacks mental strength. Hopefully he can sort himself out and become stronger mentally. He is basically equivalent to andy murray in tennis terms. Has all the talent but lacks mental strength.
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
November 22 2011 16:16 GMT
#17774
On November 22 2011 22:18 MCDayC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2011 15:40 aintz wrote:
On November 22 2011 09:06 ZenithM wrote:
On November 22 2011 09:05 GinDo wrote:
[...]
People need to be more like Flash. 14cc game 1 and then Proxy rax game 2.


MVP is a bit like that, to be honest.



really? mvp basically does the same thing every game unless his opponent does something different first.

Are you serious? MVP has about a million different builds for each matchup, it's one of the things that makes him amazing.


For TvT, MVP does have a ton of different builds.

For TvZ, he mostly sticks to Hellion expand opening but from there he can do pretty much everything.

For TvP he seems to have only 2 stable, workable builds at the moment: 1) marine/tank contain off of 1/2base or
2) greedy 3rd CC bio play.

The first will have to die eventually: either players will adapt to it or Blizzard will nerf it.
The second currently dies to a well-executed 6gate, or at least it does given the way MVP's done it.

Nothing else apart from REALLY gimmicky all-ins (that are actually all-in, not just timing attacks) like 1base 2port Banshee vs Oz, has given him success.
CokeFTW
Profile Joined November 2011
United States39 Posts
November 22 2011 16:25 GMT
#17775
Leenock the Future of Zerg, always was one of my fav zergs
Fyy
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany82 Posts
November 22 2011 16:30 GMT
#17776
On November 22 2011 10:17 Squix wrote:
Hello everyone! Does anyone know what mouse Leenock uses? thanks! Good night everyone!

i think its this one http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.207541300 but im not sure
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
November 22 2011 16:30 GMT
#17777
On November 23 2011 01:10 Xercen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2011 06:31 SeaSwift wrote:
On November 22 2011 06:20 StarStruck wrote:

For some players it's very hard to adapt their openings on the fly especially when they are as stubborn as Naniwa. Not necessarily a bad trait to have. As I mentioned earlier, KTF_Flash is very similar: Flash would constantly use 14CC openings to gain the upper hand on his opponent. He had great success with it and he still does; however, some players would eventually punish Flash for using it as his main opening.

You see the parallelism?

Thus there is no need to be calling anyone a one trick pony in this case.


It has to be said though, after getting all-ined twice while using the same build and losing both times, Flash would have got the message, and would likely have already prepared a follow-up strategy in case his original failed.

MC in particular (no bias, honest ) is well-known for mixing up his openings vs Zerg: Sometimes 1base Stargate, sometimes FFE (nexus first or otherwise), sometimes 2/3gate expand, sometimes 1gate expand into fast Void Rays. Lately, he has been doing more FFEs but I think this is partly map dependent and partly just a trend in Protoss play.


Agreed. Naniwa just didn't have any plan B. He kept on doing FFE on every single map for some reason. I have no idea why people say naniwa is better than leenock in a macro game because if he felt that way himself then he would have gone for 3 gate expand; i.e something much safer than a blind FFE on every single map including xel naga which is prolly the worst map for it. 3 gate sentry FE would enable him to go to a macro game where naniwa would undoubtedly win according to his biased fans. Unfortunately, naniwa must have either tilted again or felt that his macro wasn't on par with leenock so he decided to go for a FEE every single game which to be honest, wasn't very strange, because naniwa always tilts in big games. He is a top player no doubt (definately code S level) but i remember he lost vs thorzain and huk in those big finals because he lacks mental strength. Hopefully he can sort himself out and become stronger mentally. He is basically equivalent to andy murray in tennis terms. Has all the talent but lacks mental strength.


3 gate sentry expand puts you at an economic disadvantage vs. zerg if you actually play it safely. Zergs will often make a bunch of lings and attack if you try to take your nexus when you have 2-3 sentries and a zealot (which is the old timing before the warp gate nerf), so you have to wait until warp gate is done for it to actually be safe. End result is that you're playing from behind for the rest of the game.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
November 22 2011 16:34 GMT
#17778
On November 23 2011 01:30 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2011 01:10 Xercen wrote:
On November 22 2011 06:31 SeaSwift wrote:
On November 22 2011 06:20 StarStruck wrote:

For some players it's very hard to adapt their openings on the fly especially when they are as stubborn as Naniwa. Not necessarily a bad trait to have. As I mentioned earlier, KTF_Flash is very similar: Flash would constantly use 14CC openings to gain the upper hand on his opponent. He had great success with it and he still does; however, some players would eventually punish Flash for using it as his main opening.

You see the parallelism?

Thus there is no need to be calling anyone a one trick pony in this case.


It has to be said though, after getting all-ined twice while using the same build and losing both times, Flash would have got the message, and would likely have already prepared a follow-up strategy in case his original failed.

MC in particular (no bias, honest ) is well-known for mixing up his openings vs Zerg: Sometimes 1base Stargate, sometimes FFE (nexus first or otherwise), sometimes 2/3gate expand, sometimes 1gate expand into fast Void Rays. Lately, he has been doing more FFEs but I think this is partly map dependent and partly just a trend in Protoss play.


Agreed. Naniwa just didn't have any plan B. He kept on doing FFE on every single map for some reason. I have no idea why people say naniwa is better than leenock in a macro game because if he felt that way himself then he would have gone for 3 gate expand; i.e something much safer than a blind FFE on every single map including xel naga which is prolly the worst map for it. 3 gate sentry FE would enable him to go to a macro game where naniwa would undoubtedly win according to his biased fans. Unfortunately, naniwa must have either tilted again or felt that his macro wasn't on par with leenock so he decided to go for a FEE every single game which to be honest, wasn't very strange, because naniwa always tilts in big games. He is a top player no doubt (definately code S level) but i remember he lost vs thorzain and huk in those big finals because he lacks mental strength. Hopefully he can sort himself out and become stronger mentally. He is basically equivalent to andy murray in tennis terms. Has all the talent but lacks mental strength.


3 gate sentry expand puts you at an economic disadvantage vs. zerg if you actually play it safely. Zergs will often make a bunch of lings and attack if you try to take your nexus when you have 2-3 sentries and a zealot (which is the old timing before the warp gate nerf), so you have to wait until warp gate is done for it to actually be safe. End result is that you're playing from behind for the rest of the game.


...Which is better than outright dying every single game, no?
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
November 22 2011 16:38 GMT
#17779
On November 23 2011 01:30 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2011 01:10 Xercen wrote:
On November 22 2011 06:31 SeaSwift wrote:
On November 22 2011 06:20 StarStruck wrote:

For some players it's very hard to adapt their openings on the fly especially when they are as stubborn as Naniwa. Not necessarily a bad trait to have. As I mentioned earlier, KTF_Flash is very similar: Flash would constantly use 14CC openings to gain the upper hand on his opponent. He had great success with it and he still does; however, some players would eventually punish Flash for using it as his main opening.

You see the parallelism?

Thus there is no need to be calling anyone a one trick pony in this case.


It has to be said though, after getting all-ined twice while using the same build and losing both times, Flash would have got the message, and would likely have already prepared a follow-up strategy in case his original failed.

MC in particular (no bias, honest ) is well-known for mixing up his openings vs Zerg: Sometimes 1base Stargate, sometimes FFE (nexus first or otherwise), sometimes 2/3gate expand, sometimes 1gate expand into fast Void Rays. Lately, he has been doing more FFEs but I think this is partly map dependent and partly just a trend in Protoss play.


Agreed. Naniwa just didn't have any plan B. He kept on doing FFE on every single map for some reason. I have no idea why people say naniwa is better than leenock in a macro game because if he felt that way himself then he would have gone for 3 gate expand; i.e something much safer than a blind FFE on every single map including xel naga which is prolly the worst map for it. 3 gate sentry FE would enable him to go to a macro game where naniwa would undoubtedly win according to his biased fans. Unfortunately, naniwa must have either tilted again or felt that his macro wasn't on par with leenock so he decided to go for a FEE every single game which to be honest, wasn't very strange, because naniwa always tilts in big games. He is a top player no doubt (definately code S level) but i remember he lost vs thorzain and huk in those big finals because he lacks mental strength. Hopefully he can sort himself out and become stronger mentally. He is basically equivalent to andy murray in tennis terms. Has all the talent but lacks mental strength.


3 gate sentry expand puts you at an economic disadvantage vs. zerg if you actually play it safely. Zergs will often make a bunch of lings and attack if you try to take your nexus when you have 2-3 sentries and a zealot (which is the old timing before the warp gate nerf), so you have to wait until warp gate is done for it to actually be safe. End result is that you're playing from behind for the rest of the game.


That's exactly the same position a zerg is in vs a FFE tho. It's fine that Nani tried to play it like this every game, but his build just wasn't safe. Perfect example of that is his fifth game on XNC where his forge wasn't even covered by a cannon, which is the most basic thing ever when it comes to a FFE. At that point you're just crossing your fingers and praying for your opponent to be blind and mess up his response.

You can't expect your opponents to mess up every single game of the entire tournament, and he lost, as he deserved to.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
November 22 2011 16:49 GMT
#17780
On November 22 2011 15:40 aintz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2011 09:06 ZenithM wrote:
On November 22 2011 09:05 GinDo wrote:
[...]
People need to be more like Flash. 14cc game 1 and then Proxy rax game 2.


MVP is a bit like that, to be honest.



really? mvp basically does the same thing every game unless his opponent does something different first.


Well, only in TvZ, on TvP and TvT I have seen him open up with a lot of different strats. But TvZ I always seem to remember him opening reactor Hellion expand.
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
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