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On November 09 2011 19:43 Mainland wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 19:31 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:29 Medrea wrote:On November 09 2011 19:27 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:26 Mainland wrote:
How does he expect to play lategame TvP without ghosts or any other AoE? What other AoE does terran have? Tanks? Seeker missile? Nuke? Terran has more AoE's than the other races! Lol. Go tanks in TvP? Seeker missile may be something not developed yet. Nuke is possible but is more gimmicky than required. I figure that with protosses now discovering how to own terran with upgrades, terrans have to innovate and we start seeing more raven or other builds right now. Bio just can't cut it in late game against protoss of equal skill.. BFH is also worth considering to get rid of the zealot meat shield faster. Theorycrafting, I think an ideal approach to fighting zealot colossus archon would be EMPing the shit out of everything, then having hellions behind marauders, and then a few tanks in back focusing on stalkers with vikings and medivacs in the air. No matter what, I think P will always be stronger in a heads-up fight super late game assuming perfect control, I think Terran will need to focus more on drops on remote bases and spreading out the P army, limiting bases and stressing the multitask to gain an advantage.
Hellions are great for killing zealots but the problem you run into is that colossi vaporize them almost as effectively as they do marines - which are also good against zealots. I'm no pro but I've tried a few marine/marauder/hellion builds vs Protoss on ladder and it was pretty much bad news for me whenever any number of colossi hit the field. Hellions end up being a big supply sink that can't do anything against the beefier Protoss units and end up just dying before doing a whole lot anyway.
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I picked Jakji and Killer to make it out, but not looking good.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On November 09 2011 19:46 woob wrote:
are tastosis casting live?
I sorta see what you mean. It does sometimes sound like they're commenting the future.
Maybe its just a bit out of sync
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ravens are definitely an option terrans should be looking for. not only can you use pdd and maybe even seeker missile against chargelots, it could be a potential gas dump once you're on 3+ bases.
the most important thing i think is it allows you to snipe obs in an engagement, allowing your cloaked ghosts to actually snipe/emp the HTs behind the chargelot/colosuss composition. people say that you shouldn't get hts because herp derp ghosts automatically counter hts.
any decent toss will have plenty of storms available if they just keep their hts spread and next to/behind their colossus. how is terran supposed to get those ht in a big engagement? if toss a-moves towards your army, ghosts will just die to chargelots/colossus before they can even reach a single ht. not only that, since terran needs to be marine heavy against chargelots (if it's 2-2 vs 3-3 chargelots, guardian shield will make marines do 2 damage), you only need a couple storms and a few swipes of colossus to obliterate the marines. i think another problem is the fast 3-3 upgrades benefits colossus so much, terran has to find a way to get fast 3-0 vikings to even be able to take out the colossus effectively before marines die.
i think making sure that toss has no obs in an engagement will be key against HT play in the future, so cloaked ghosts will actually be useful.
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On November 09 2011 16:51 Fionn wrote:Why are we even playing this? I already predicted Supernova wins this tournament. Group G should just forfeit. NOVAmber is coming. + Show Spoiler +Puzzle/Clide + Supernovamber/Jjakji to advance
that prediction went... well.
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How about ghosts, they are pretty good AoE?
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
On November 09 2011 19:47 Fionn wrote:
I am rooting for Virus in this match. I feel bad underestimating him in this group.
so...just to clarify...I can feel pretty confident that Jjakji will advance?
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On November 09 2011 19:48 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 19:43 Mainland wrote:On November 09 2011 19:31 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:29 Medrea wrote:On November 09 2011 19:27 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:26 Mainland wrote:
How does he expect to play lategame TvP without ghosts or any other AoE? What other AoE does terran have? Tanks? Seeker missile? Nuke? Terran has more AoE's than the other races! Lol. Go tanks in TvP? Seeker missile may be something not developed yet. Nuke is possible but is more gimmicky than required. I figure that with protosses now discovering how to own terran with upgrades, terrans have to innovate and we start seeing more raven or other builds right now. Bio just can't cut it in late game against protoss of equal skill.. BFH is also worth considering to get rid of the zealot meat shield faster. Theorycrafting, I think an ideal approach to fighting zealot colossus archon would be EMPing the shit out of everything, then having hellions behind marauders, and then a few tanks in back focusing on stalkers with vikings and medivacs in the air. No matter what, I think P will always be stronger in a heads-up fight super late game assuming perfect control, I think Terran will need to focus more on drops on remote bases and spreading out the P army, limiting bases and stressing the multitask to gain an advantage. Hellions are great for killing zealots but the problem you run into is that colossi vaporize them almost as effectively as they do marines - which are also good against zealots. I'm no pro but I've tried a few marine/marauder/hellion builds vs Protoss on ladder and it was pretty much bad news for me whenever any number of colossi hit the field. Hellions end up being a big supply sink that can't do anything against the beefier Protoss units and end up just dying before doing a whole lot anyway.
Once again Colossus turns out to be the destroyer of variety XD
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On November 09 2011 19:46 bbQ4Aiur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 19:45 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:44 bbQ4Aiur wrote:On November 09 2011 19:37 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:33 Medrea wrote:On November 09 2011 19:31 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:29 Medrea wrote:On November 09 2011 19:27 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:26 Mainland wrote:
How does he expect to play lategame TvP without ghosts or any other AoE? What other AoE does terran have? Tanks? Seeker missile? Nuke? Terran has more AoE's than the other races! Lol. Go tanks in TvP? Seeker missile may be something not developed yet. Nuke is possible but is more gimmicky than required. I figure that with protosses now discovering how to own terran with upgrades, terrans have to innovate and we start seeing more raven or other builds right now. Bio just can't cut it in late game against protoss of equal skill.. You have never seen tanks in TvP? Really guy? Um, so what macro games have a terran who went for tanks won? Are you going to say goody? MVP v MC 2bases tanks rines turrents bunker contain win? its one of the most convincing TvP win I mentioned just now that MVP transitioned to bio after he contained. Fact is, late game tanks don't work against mass chargelots + blink stalkers + immortals. MVP hit a nice timing before MC could get all that but after he got the contain up, he immediately transitioned to mass bio. More like MC tried to break the hard contain of tanks and bunkers and lost?
Thats because MC didn't have charge nor immortals nor blink stalkers at that point of time. MVP played that smartly.
But in late game t v p, those don't work because protoss have all those upgrades.
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On November 09 2011 19:44 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 19:41 FuzzyJAM wrote:On November 09 2011 19:38 Hassybaby wrote:On November 09 2011 19:37 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:33 Medrea wrote:On November 09 2011 19:31 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:29 Medrea wrote:On November 09 2011 19:27 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:26 Mainland wrote:
How does he expect to play lategame TvP without ghosts or any other AoE? What other AoE does terran have? Tanks? Seeker missile? Nuke? Terran has more AoE's than the other races! Lol. Go tanks in TvP? Seeker missile may be something not developed yet. Nuke is possible but is more gimmicky than required. I figure that with protosses now discovering how to own terran with upgrades, terrans have to innovate and we start seeing more raven or other builds right now. Bio just can't cut it in late game against protoss of equal skill.. You have never seen tanks in TvP? Really guy? Um, so what macro games have a terran who went for tanks won? Are you going to say goody? I was gonna say Jinro Twice How long ago was that again? And let's not forget that Jinro has since categorically said that mech cannot work in TvP so I don't know why you'd choose that as an example. Never mentioned a time frame. He asked for an example. I gave him 2 from the same player
Yeah, and your example proved his point. That was about a year ago on bad maps from a player who has said for months since that the style does not work at all.
Tanks are terrible in late game TvP.
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On November 09 2011 19:47 Fionn wrote:
I am rooting for Virus in this match. I feel bad underestimating him in this group.
So you root for jjakji.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
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On November 09 2011 19:49 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 19:47 Fionn wrote:
I am rooting for Virus in this match. I feel bad underestimating him in this group. so...just to clarify...I can feel pretty confident that Jjakji will advance?
well his official pick was Jjakji, so Virus should win
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Also. Hellions are complete shit vs Zealots, because Hellions have super slow rate of fire so they are only good against things that they 2 hit really. Look how much worse they got against marines just moving up to a 3 hit. Zealots.... the whole fight is over before hellions get enough hits in to kill zealots lol.
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On November 09 2011 19:47 Fionn wrote:
I am rooting for Virus in this match. I feel bad underestimating him in this group.
Fionn curse activating in 3 .. 2..1 ^-^
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Welp by Virus, this is not going to be for the mid game.
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On November 09 2011 19:47 Fionn wrote:
I am rooting for Virus in this match. I feel bad underestimating him in this group.
Can you root for Huk please? 
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On November 09 2011 19:50 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 19:44 Hassybaby wrote:On November 09 2011 19:41 FuzzyJAM wrote:On November 09 2011 19:38 Hassybaby wrote:On November 09 2011 19:37 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:33 Medrea wrote:On November 09 2011 19:31 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:29 Medrea wrote:On November 09 2011 19:27 poorcloud wrote:On November 09 2011 19:26 Mainland wrote:
How does he expect to play lategame TvP without ghosts or any other AoE? What other AoE does terran have? Tanks? Seeker missile? Nuke? Terran has more AoE's than the other races! Lol. Go tanks in TvP? Seeker missile may be something not developed yet. Nuke is possible but is more gimmicky than required. I figure that with protosses now discovering how to own terran with upgrades, terrans have to innovate and we start seeing more raven or other builds right now. Bio just can't cut it in late game against protoss of equal skill.. You have never seen tanks in TvP? Really guy? Um, so what macro games have a terran who went for tanks won? Are you going to say goody? I was gonna say Jinro Twice How long ago was that again? And let's not forget that Jinro has since categorically said that mech cannot work in TvP so I don't know why you'd choose that as an example. Never mentioned a time frame. He asked for an example. I gave him 2 from the same player Yeah, and your example proved his point. That was about a year ago on bad maps from a player who has said for months since that the style does not work at all. Tanks are terrible in late game TvP.
There was no disproving a point...all he asked was what macro games have there been where a Terran won. I mentioned 2. Nothing about whether its still legit, nothing about current meta trends and how its proven that they're garbage now
Simple question, simple answer.
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EPT
