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On November 01 2011 20:53 Pipeline wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 20:47 Dalavita wrote:On November 01 2011 20:45 SuperFanBoy wrote: Idra debated this issue with day9 on SOTG couple months ago, the issue was that a zerg can't scout because of marines on the edge of the base.. day9 lost the debate because he couldn't explain how a zerg could scout. Nestea vs SC today showed that Idra was actually correct. That was a dumb analysis. First of all, Day9 didn't lose because he didn't even partake in an actual discussion right then. His answer was that he'd need more information before he could definitively deduct anything. Also, saying that one game showed something correct is laughable. The only thing this game showed us that Nesteas OL was millimeters from scouting the starports because they were close to the edge, and he spotted the banshees very early but didn't react properly. You need to be slapped. Oh shut up. Im equally tired of zerg tears as I am of stupid terrans defending easy to execute all ins. Its all the same.
Good thing I'm not even discussing any allins right now am I? Reading comprehension is a good skill toi have.
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losira was brilliant in that game, did you see that hellion scouting for losiras 3rd with 10 hp and 6 speedlings behind?
at first i was screaming when losira moved his lings aways for a second and didn't kill it before it scouted the hatch, but now i realize he did that on purpose to be able to baneling bust asd without him putting up bunkers and stuff
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On November 01 2011 20:53 Allwars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 20:52 Scila wrote:On November 01 2011 20:40 Ramble wrote:On November 01 2011 20:38 marttorn wrote: Why is 2port suddenly imbalanced or just "soo good" when it wins against nestea by a non-legendary terran? ._. gets annoying~ I don't think it's 2port per se, just that if terran is on one base, you have to flip a coin on to which all-in to counter. 4-5rax, SCV allin, 2port banshee, marauder hellion all in or they just expand if you can't scout their natural. Or you could just....scout? Very easy to scout into a terran base with marines in every single corner. There were only marines on the cliff. He could've snuck an overlord to the space behind the main earlier in the game but he didnt.
Also seeing 1 hellion, 2 "naked" barracks and 6 marines is a pretty good tell that sC is either going marine/hellion (which is pretty easy to hold off) all in or a 2 port banshee.
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On November 01 2011 20:53 habbey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 20:51 McBrungus wrote:On November 01 2011 20:49 marcesr wrote: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand...another all in. Yeah? Losira was on 3 bases. In what universe is that considered all in? The universe where he only had 45 drones, used all his gas on roaches and banes instead of lair/upgrades, and wasn't mining from the 3rd. It was pretty darn all in.
yah it's a total coinflip. terran had his third cc, if he made tanks and a wall, instead of fast starport, then he would've held the allin. however how can you scout it? are you supposed to use 4 scans to see every part of the zerg base to search for baneling nest? even then how do you know if 25 banelings will be knocking at your door?
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On November 01 2011 20:53 McBrungus wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 20:51 s3rp wrote:On November 01 2011 20:51 McBrungus wrote:On November 01 2011 20:49 marcesr wrote: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand...another all in. Yeah? Losira was on 3 bases. In what universe is that considered all in? In the one where he has Drones for 1.5 bases ... And the ability to instantly drone up those extra bases if the attack doesn't work. I don't see your point.
He'd be so far behind if that failed that it would've been gg. No matter how many hatches he had . Very similar to 2 Port Banshee . Terran and Zerg All-ins are very different.
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Live Report threads are really fun until Zerg or Protoss players lose games. TT
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Going back to the NesTea thing...
He was so far ahead and seeing his opponent going for some other one base all in all he had to do was chuck down one or two spores, send in three overlords from different positions and you'd definitely have seen it, who cares if you lose three overlords, if you find out what the second follow up cheese is you've won the game.
As other people said he'd also seen one Hellion and some naked rax so it would be pretty weird for it to be siege tanks if you wasted time making a hellion and it clearly wasn't stimmed +1 marines.
When you are as far ahead as NesTea was he should have just played it safe, all I'm saying.
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I still don't get why GomTV is so fucking stupid to let the group phase be BO1's. asd just needs 1 lucky cheese and Nestea has to fight through a ton of matches to be able to get back in code S, just rediculous. With so many cheeses available in sc2 BO1 is just silly, there is almost no 'safe' play. Even worse being unlucky to get 0-2'd could mean you face a good code A player and even get knocked down to code B immediately. I just don't get why such idiots get to make the most important tournament...
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Would be sweet to have a banhammer now. Fucking joke LR threads.
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On November 01 2011 20:54 LeaD wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 20:52 Scila wrote:On November 01 2011 20:40 Ramble wrote:On November 01 2011 20:38 marttorn wrote: Why is 2port suddenly imbalanced or just "soo good" when it wins against nestea by a non-legendary terran? ._. gets annoying~ I don't think it's 2port per se, just that if terran is on one base, you have to flip a coin on to which all-in to counter. 4-5rax, SCV allin, 2port banshee, marauder hellion all in or they just expand if you can't scout their natural. Or you could just....scout? With? Not every race has scan.
units?
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On November 01 2011 20:53 habbey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 20:51 McBrungus wrote:On November 01 2011 20:49 marcesr wrote: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand...another all in. Yeah? Losira was on 3 bases. In what universe is that considered all in? The universe where he only had 45 drones, used all his gas on roaches and banes instead of lair/upgrades, and wasn't mining from the 3rd. It was pretty darn all in.
Because he scouted expo first asap. It's not all in because he made 4 hatches. It's making units vs. a mega economy opener, a reaction to what he saw.
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When some Zerg players talk, my whiner sense itches and when they talk of balance, they often sound like _______
Argh. Anyway, rooting for sC [injured hero!] , but LosirA may be too strong for him. and if asd plays the opposite of how he played the last game, then NesTea will have some troubles.
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Can we get back to this being an LR thread and not the usual balance/race arguements?
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[QUOTE]On November 01 2011 20:52 Asha` wrote: [QUOTE]On November 01 2011 20:52 Babru wrote: [QUOTE]On November 01 2011 20:51 annYeong(o11) wrote: Can we now say all is fair, a T all-in win and a Z all-in win.
We good?[/QUOTE]
well the zerg just followed up a lead with a death blow, the terran on the other hand lost the game then came back with an all in.[/QUOTE]
You know NesTea only had about 12 drones after the rax pressure right?
I didnt count the drones but i could tell that Nestea was ahead by far at that point. He got even more ahead 3-4 minutes after that point when he could drone/tech and the T still hadnt taken his exe. A shame Nestea didnt play with better margins when he had such a lead.
Edit: What just happend with the quotes =I
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So fucking annoying that every LR thread always ends up becoming a giant shit fest.
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On November 01 2011 20:54 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 20:43 SuperFanBoy wrote:On November 01 2011 20:41 yeint wrote:On November 01 2011 20:38 Creem wrote: It's so retarded that banshees hardcounter everything pre mutas. Banshees both outrange and outdmg EVERYTHING early game that can be considered a threat to these flying dts. 1 banshee loses to 1 queen, and doesn't outrange it. 1 banshee loses to 1 spore crawler, and doesn't outrange it. Both are also cheaper than a banshee. I mean, I appreciate a good imba whine, but I can't think of a single Zerg unit that doesn't outrange a banshee. Unless you mean that LINGS can't hit them. Banshee actually beats a queen in 1v1, also banshees can move around, obviously you wont be in situation where you have a banshee fighting a spore 1v1.. you will obviously position all your banshees to be able to kill 1 spore at a time. to cover all the area you would need to be very cost ineffective and make 10+ spores Banshee shoudn't beat a queen 1v1 unless both start shooting at the same time. Queen has a range advantage and can start shooting earlier. Brb testing. No need to test, the queen wins if she has the 1st shoot.
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On November 01 2011 20:55 Markwerf wrote: I still don't get why GomTV is so fucking stupid to let the group phase be BO1's. asd just needs 1 lucky cheese and Nestea has to fight through a ton of matches to be able to get back in code S, just rediculous. With so many cheeses available in sc2 BO1 is just silly, there is almost no 'safe' play. Even worse being unlucky to get 0-2'd could mean you face a good code A player and even get knocked down to code B immediately. I just don't get why such idiots get to make the most important tournament... How is losing to 2 cheeses from 2 different players different from losing to 2 cheeses from 1 player? Players of the same race at that.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50123 Posts
On November 01 2011 20:55 Markwerf wrote: I still don't get why GomTV is so fucking stupid to let the group phase be BO1's. asd just needs 1 lucky cheese and Nestea has to fight through a ton of matches to be able to get back in code S, just rediculous. With so many cheeses available in sc2 BO1 is just silly, there is almost no 'safe' play. Even worse being unlucky to get 0-2'd could mean you face a good code A player and even get knocked down to code B immediately. I just don't get why such idiots get to make the most important tournament... lol if he wins the nxt 2 games(which he will) hes go to the Ro16,just fucking chill.
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On November 01 2011 20:55 Markwerf wrote: I still don't get why GomTV is so fucking stupid to let the group phase be BO1's. asd just needs 1 lucky cheese and Nestea has to fight through a ton of matches to be able to get back in code S, just rediculous. With so many cheeses available in sc2 BO1 is just silly, there is almost no 'safe' play. Even worse being unlucky to get 0-2'd could mean you face a good code A player and even get knocked down to code B immediately. I just don't get why such idiots get to make the most important tournament...
I think they should spread the tournament over 2 or 3 months and do really long group stages, like maybe a couple days per group even.
might be too much, but i think the Bo1's need to go, I don't think they ever worked
edit - popular comment lol
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On November 01 2011 20:57 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 20:54 yeint wrote:On November 01 2011 20:43 SuperFanBoy wrote:On November 01 2011 20:41 yeint wrote:On November 01 2011 20:38 Creem wrote: It's so retarded that banshees hardcounter everything pre mutas. Banshees both outrange and outdmg EVERYTHING early game that can be considered a threat to these flying dts. 1 banshee loses to 1 queen, and doesn't outrange it. 1 banshee loses to 1 spore crawler, and doesn't outrange it. Both are also cheaper than a banshee. I mean, I appreciate a good imba whine, but I can't think of a single Zerg unit that doesn't outrange a banshee. Unless you mean that LINGS can't hit them. Banshee actually beats a queen in 1v1, also banshees can move around, obviously you wont be in situation where you have a banshee fighting a spore 1v1.. you will obviously position all your banshees to be able to kill 1 spore at a time. to cover all the area you would need to be very cost ineffective and make 10+ spores Banshee shoudn't beat a queen 1v1 unless both start shooting at the same time. Queen has a range advantage and can start shooting earlier. Brb testing. No need to test, the queen wins if she has the 1st shoot.
What game are you playing!?
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