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+ Show Spoiler +On October 12 2011 05:28 GenoZStriker wrote:
Putting aside the shit that happened with the finals, I want to state my opinion on something I said last after last season that I seriously hope you guys consider for season 3, because I feel that it's one of many major things holding your league back. You seriously need to up your coverage, because it has been extremely pathetic. It's almost as if you put no effort what so ever in letting people know your league exist. Aside from a couple of threads that popped up with teams casting replays of their matches, indicating they have obviously won, there has been absolutely nothing.
These backyard online leagues as call you them to make ESEA look like God's gift eSports, do a way better job than ESEA has done for the past two season. SGL, SCL, GCPL and MCSL all run/ran by a handful of people, some even 1 person, do/did a way better job than ESEA in terms of coverage. Last season no one knew how it had ended til coL opened a thread with stream casting replays, indicating they had obviously won. And now this, a thread announcing season 3 and a derp comment with the standings. That's really terrible for a league that carries the ESEA name. And lets be honest, if you league did not have the ESEA name, you would practically be nothing. I can go to your site and practically not find anything about this league (Replays, standing, results, schedule and etc.)
Start opening live report threads, make an R&S thread. Do something in terms of coverage.
Agreed 100%. It's neat that you can get together so many teams for a league with a decent prize pool, but I really don't think anyone outside of the actual participants knew the season was even going on (Speaking from someone who played in last season). I would hope that a league that requires every player on the roster to pay a fee to even play should be able to get some sort of coverage.
I remember at one point on the ESEA site (which isn't formatted for SC2 matches at all, it's impossible to find result information unless you know where to look) there were claims that DJWheat 'might' cast some games, which I believe never happened. Last season's thread on TL was laughable as well. It wast just a bunch of un-formatted paragraphs that had some typos. It wasn't until mid-season that someone edited it to be somewhat presentable.
This league has/had the potential to be an amazing league but there are a lot of oversights that could be fixed I believe.
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I never new ESEA had a sc2 Division till this Thread lol
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On October 12 2011 05:39 dbizzle wrote:
I'm in the same boat as you guys for a walk over finals, I gave EG the time frame which they would be playing. It is unfortunate that your internet went out, that's why you need backups for situations like this.
As for coverage, there will be a lot more coverage this season. I understand your concerns and ESEA is improving every season, I've talked to the managers through out the season about all the problems and what can be done better.
My problem with you incontrol is that you are pretty ignorant in this entire argument and have to disrespect me by calling me and ESEA names. Yes there are problems, but ESEA and I are fixing them and will be better in season 3. As season 2 was better than season 1, you can ask all the teams that participated.
If calling names is your primary concern here then excuse me. Let me withdraw the name calling and distill it to the most pure form of my message cause you continue to ignore my primary point and then blabber on and on about how we need back ups.. as if that is any of your business.
1. We were ready for 2 weeks. ESEA's league was running behind schedule. EG was ahead of schedule. We are awarded no leniency on a 1 day magical deadline that you made up.
2. The finals weren't played. You gave a w/o because monday October 10th of 2011 is ESEA's budgeting day for the year. They cannot afford to play their finals for the entire season and would rather have 0 marketing and hand out money for a terrible season of disappointments.
3. You call every other league "backyard" and me "ignorant" then assume you have some infinite wisdom on what it takes to run a horrific and terrible league like ESEA and how we peons have no way of comprehending the monday October 10th workload.
4. Your league was ran terribly. No advertising. No results. No marketing. No finals. Terrible admin decision. No refs present at CW's. Other teams run weeks behind schedule, 0 punishment. EG is at IPL and can't play finals on 1 day? W/O forfeit the finals!
Again, if you're really upset I called names I apologize. Let me subjectively say for the reasons above your league is a failure. Future seasons will run with this in mind. You as an admin are inadequate and bad given the transgressions that have occurred. ESEA has been a terrible league for other games in the past as well. It would seem this is going to continue in SC2.
For future reference: It'd be best if you didn't continue to try and slander me by calling me unprofessional, other leagues "backyard" and go on about how special the ESEA league is in a thread discussing a major fuck up. But what do I know? I have no idea how to run a league right!?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
PS: Season 1 and 2 are the same pile of shit but at least in season 1 they played the finals.. and no I don't need to ask "all the teams that participated" I don't know if you some how forgot but EG took second in season 1 as well! We were there.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I don't want your respect I want a competent league that doesn't give w/o's in the finals. I want an admin who can admit he was wrong and not continue to go "ESEA is the best!" and then later admit "well this is my first time running a league" No shit? I couldn't tell.. well here is some huge advice GET THE FINALS PLAYED.
Want me to act professional in regards to your league? Then run a professional league. You yourself talked about giving respect and getting it. Well guess what? That sword cuts both ways. I have 0 respect for ESEA thus far. Want my respect? Stop being a shit league that makes up rules around the finals and would rather w/o a team than play the finals.
Ironically the most PR ESEA will get in 2 seasons will be me talking about this on SOTG.
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I see alot of negativity going on in this thread, no one seems to see any of the positives ESEA is striving for. A few things I liked about this League, one being it was pretty automated...you could set your roster and once the other team had done so you'd know your matches ahead of time, giving you time to prepare in advance, this was nice. I do believe more admins are needed, though. Thankfully though you could report most of the time without requring admin assistance...I think ESEA is trying to improve upon the mistakes they've made in previous seasons, we should atleast give them a chance to remedy any problems this season had. I'm looking forward to the next season hopefully some can look past the ordeal with the finals and move forward!
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Just to Clarify,
DJ Wheat DID cast quite a few games in Season 1 - I know because I was responsible for some of them.
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Only US teams can play? No europe? TT
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On October 12 2011 06:09 cyclone25 wrote:
Only US teams can play? No europe? TT
European teams can play! You must have a north american account though and be willing to play in U.S time zones.
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Yeah I must say, after playing in ESEA for 4-5 seasons in CS and then playing in 1 season of SC2, Their SC2 division sucks. Its not smooth, cant see no stats, their SC2 division isnt even known in all 50 states. There is no advertising from them besides TeamLiquid. Not enough people know about it to care or survive. And most of all, alot of bad teams dont want to pay $9 out of their pocket to lose vs EG, coL, Gosu etc..
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On October 12 2011 06:00 dbizzle wrote:
I never called every other league a "backyard" or talk about the way you run your league. I apologized to your manager and all the other team managers via msging and on the phone about the delays and hiccups that happened in ESEA. You have your right to say whatever you want to say and voice your opinions on the league.
I am learning how to run a better league with each season and things will be improved. The way we run things are a little different, yea the coverage was very little, but thats ok. In due time things will get rolling and you will see a lot more coverage with ESEA sc2.
This is my first league I have ever ran and I've made some mistakes and learning new things every week. I am grateful that ESEA is branching off into sc2 and looking forward to season 3.
Name calling is just immature and unprofessional, I am here to let you guys know of a new season and to get your feedback. If you're that type of person who would rather bitch and yell and pull out your hair because something went wrong instead of calmly assessing the situation, thats cool man. Just do it in respect, other wise you wont get any respect thrown back at you.
I don't think you quite get what needs to be done yet.
Right now your publicity and marketing are so far behind the schedule its unacceptable to even consider asking for league entry fees or awarding prizes. Heck you even had entrants who entered thinking was 1v1 because of how poorly presented the league is. You're just lucky that it has received so little coverage.
I don't see InControl here asking for a CW finals REMATCH or anything like that at all. The fact he has to make it public that your league just 'ran' with a walkover finals without any clear justification. Given there was absolutely no effect of whether the finals was held the same day (which team EG intended to honor), or a day after makes a pretty clear case that the management decision was absolute rubbish. Especially if higher-ups make a decision saying they 'can't wait', it just shows how little respect ESEA has for the players and teams of the league. Doesn't matter that they pitch money to fly people to finals, the mere fact they think it's okay to announce a w/o knowing there was internet outage. Hell it's better PR salvage to withdraw the w/o decision than to just pretend to be ignorant about the outage.
There is a very clear process of actions that need to be done to rectify this. You cannot make a claim that the league is great and well run considering even you yourself admit this is your first league that you have run. It has been made clear on this thread there were many complaints about the ways things happened - no publicity, no admins, no penalties until finals, no consideration for teams who FOLLOWED rules.
ESEA needs to release a public apology to teams for the poor management of the league.
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On October 12 2011 06:13 strength wrote:
Yeah I must say, after playing in ESEA for 4-5 seasons in CS and then playing in 1 season of SC2, Their SC2 division sucks. Its not smooth, cant see no stats, their SC2 division isnt even known in all 50 states. There is no advertising from them besides TeamLiquid. Not enough people know about it to care or survive. And most of all, alot of bad teams dont want to pay $9 out of their pocket to lose vs EG, coL, Gosu etc..
Season 1 had a lot of bugs that have been worked out, I appreciate all the teams that have had patience and by sticking it out. Most of the bugs have been fixed and for the most part and its been running smoothly.
9$ is a very cheap price for an entry fee to an organized league sport that lasts 3 months. To play against top teams, although you might not win, can be a fun and learning experience. Depending on how you want to look at it. With each season there is always room for improvement and we are doing just that.
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On October 12 2011 06:17 elliminist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 06:00 dbizzle wrote:
I never called every other league a "backyard" or talk about the way you run your league. I apologized to your manager and all the other team managers via msging and on the phone about the delays and hiccups that happened in ESEA. You have your right to say whatever you want to say and voice your opinions on the league.
I am learning how to run a better league with each season and things will be improved. The way we run things are a little different, yea the coverage was very little, but thats ok. In due time things will get rolling and you will see a lot more coverage with ESEA sc2.
This is my first league I have ever ran and I've made some mistakes and learning new things every week. I am grateful that ESEA is branching off into sc2 and looking forward to season 3.
Name calling is just immature and unprofessional, I am here to let you guys know of a new season and to get your feedback. If you're that type of person who would rather bitch and yell and pull out your hair because something went wrong instead of calmly assessing the situation, thats cool man. Just do it in respect, other wise you wont get any respect thrown back at you.
I don't think you quite get what needs to be done yet. Right now your publicity and marketing are so far behind the schedule its unacceptable to even consider asking for league entry fees or awarding prizes. Heck you even had entrants who entered thinking was 1v1 because of how poorly presented the league is. You're just lucky that it has received so little coverage. I don't see InControl here asking for a CW finals REMATCH or anything like that at all. The fact he has to make it public that your league just 'ran' with a walkover finals without any clear justification. Given there was absolutely no effect of whether the finals was held the same day (which team EG intended to honor), or a day after makes a pretty clear case that the management decision was absolute rubbish. Especially if higher-ups make a decision saying they 'can't wait', it just shows how little respect ESEA has for the players and teams of the league. Doesn't matter that they pitch money to fly people to finals, the mere fact they think it's okay to announce a w/o knowing there was internet outage. Hell it's better PR salvage to withdraw the w/o decision than to just pretend to be ignorant about the outage. There is a very clear process of actions that need to be done to rectify this. You cannot make a claim that the league is great and well run considering even you yourself admit this is your first league that you have run. It has been made clear on this thread there were many complaints about the ways things happened - no publicity, no admins, no penalties until finals, no consideration for teams who FOLLOWED rules. ESEA needs to release a public apology to teams for the poor management of the league.
Please understand that the sc2 division has had its problems, when I talk about ESEA being a top league. I'm referring to the years of 1.6 and source seasons that have been running with out a hitch. SC2 is an infant compared to the other games in ESEA, things will mess up and go wrong.
We are fixing problems when they appear as fast as we can. ESEA is in it for the long run, and we will prove it to the community.
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On October 12 2011 06:13 dbizzle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 06:09 cyclone25 wrote:
Only US teams can play? No europe? TT European teams can play! You must have a north american account though and be willing to play in U.S time zones.
Awesome, I'll try to spread the word 
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Rofl at everyone attacking incontrol because he's dead fucking on, TL at it's finest.
Comparing NASL problems to ESEA problems is fucking laughable, ESEA was horribly run. I spent over $100 out of my OWN pocket to let my team get some good games vs awesome teams. We ended up getting FF wins for over 50% of our matches, because of the bad scheduling system. After 9 or so weeks me team decided to give it up because giving up 2 nights was making it hard to schedule for other leagues.
Don't get me started on the reporting system, reporting wins was a fucking hassle. The rules were incomplete and there were 2 sets of SC2 rules, and 2 different map pools posted on the website for more then 9 weeks. The prize money was never updated on 1 of the rules that was posted. The site is horrible configured for SC2 and it hasn't been improved in 2 seasons.
Want to look up the score for a clan war? You had to literally click each match in a drop down match and try and figure it out there, no battle report, nothing.
With such a big prize pool you should NEVER give a team a walk over into the finals. It's fucking stupid and a terrible decision. And since this organization is so "well run" with other games, they should have the common sense not to schedule a finals where any team that was sponsored players that will be playing at events like MLG or IPL.
Don't attack incontrol with these ad homin attack's when you have no idea how it went down. He has every right to complain. Any other team leagues give teams a week off for MLG and IPL, and it's no excuse ESEA didn't think about it. When teams pay 9 fucking dollars a player, you would think this would be a little bit more well run?
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On October 12 2011 06:24 dbizzle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 06:17 elliminist wrote:On October 12 2011 06:00 dbizzle wrote:
I never called every other league a "backyard" or talk about the way you run your league. I apologized to your manager and all the other team managers via msging and on the phone about the delays and hiccups that happened in ESEA. You have your right to say whatever you want to say and voice your opinions on the league.
I am learning how to run a better league with each season and things will be improved. The way we run things are a little different, yea the coverage was very little, but thats ok. In due time things will get rolling and you will see a lot more coverage with ESEA sc2.
This is my first league I have ever ran and I've made some mistakes and learning new things every week. I am grateful that ESEA is branching off into sc2 and looking forward to season 3.
Name calling is just immature and unprofessional, I am here to let you guys know of a new season and to get your feedback. If you're that type of person who would rather bitch and yell and pull out your hair because something went wrong instead of calmly assessing the situation, thats cool man. Just do it in respect, other wise you wont get any respect thrown back at you.
I don't think you quite get what needs to be done yet. Right now your publicity and marketing are so far behind the schedule its unacceptable to even consider asking for league entry fees or awarding prizes. Heck you even had entrants who entered thinking was 1v1 because of how poorly presented the league is. You're just lucky that it has received so little coverage. I don't see InControl here asking for a CW finals REMATCH or anything like that at all. The fact he has to make it public that your league just 'ran' with a walkover finals without any clear justification. Given there was absolutely no effect of whether the finals was held the same day (which team EG intended to honor), or a day after makes a pretty clear case that the management decision was absolute rubbish. Especially if higher-ups make a decision saying they 'can't wait', it just shows how little respect ESEA has for the players and teams of the league. Doesn't matter that they pitch money to fly people to finals, the mere fact they think it's okay to announce a w/o knowing there was internet outage. Hell it's better PR salvage to withdraw the w/o decision than to just pretend to be ignorant about the outage. There is a very clear process of actions that need to be done to rectify this. You cannot make a claim that the league is great and well run considering even you yourself admit this is your first league that you have run. It has been made clear on this thread there were many complaints about the ways things happened - no publicity, no admins, no penalties until finals, no consideration for teams who FOLLOWED rules. ESEA needs to release a public apology to teams for the poor management of the league. Please understand that the sc2 division has had its problems, when I talk about ESEA being a top league. I'm referring to the years of 1.6 and source seasons that have been running with out a hitch. SC2 is an infant compared to the other games in ESEA, things will mess up and go wrong. We are fixing problems when they appear as fast as we can. ESEA is in it for the long run, and we will prove it to the community.
I appreciate that you are trying to make it work better.
However refusing to release a public apology (as implied in your reply) just shows everyone how far this league is willing to go in terms of professionalism, which unfortunately isn't very far.
There is a difference between working towards something and refusing to admit that there were problems in the past. Look at all the other big tournaments. Do you think they publicly apologise because they like to? I don't think so. It's part of being a legitimate league.
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On October 12 2011 06:51 elliminist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 06:24 dbizzle wrote:On October 12 2011 06:17 elliminist wrote:On October 12 2011 06:00 dbizzle wrote:
I never called every other league a "backyard" or talk about the way you run your league. I apologized to your manager and all the other team managers via msging and on the phone about the delays and hiccups that happened in ESEA. You have your right to say whatever you want to say and voice your opinions on the league.
I am learning how to run a better league with each season and things will be improved. The way we run things are a little different, yea the coverage was very little, but thats ok. In due time things will get rolling and you will see a lot more coverage with ESEA sc2.
This is my first league I have ever ran and I've made some mistakes and learning new things every week. I am grateful that ESEA is branching off into sc2 and looking forward to season 3.
Name calling is just immature and unprofessional, I am here to let you guys know of a new season and to get your feedback. If you're that type of person who would rather bitch and yell and pull out your hair because something went wrong instead of calmly assessing the situation, thats cool man. Just do it in respect, other wise you wont get any respect thrown back at you.
I don't think you quite get what needs to be done yet. Right now your publicity and marketing are so far behind the schedule its unacceptable to even consider asking for league entry fees or awarding prizes. Heck you even had entrants who entered thinking was 1v1 because of how poorly presented the league is. You're just lucky that it has received so little coverage. I don't see InControl here asking for a CW finals REMATCH or anything like that at all. The fact he has to make it public that your league just 'ran' with a walkover finals without any clear justification. Given there was absolutely no effect of whether the finals was held the same day (which team EG intended to honor), or a day after makes a pretty clear case that the management decision was absolute rubbish. Especially if higher-ups make a decision saying they 'can't wait', it just shows how little respect ESEA has for the players and teams of the league. Doesn't matter that they pitch money to fly people to finals, the mere fact they think it's okay to announce a w/o knowing there was internet outage. Hell it's better PR salvage to withdraw the w/o decision than to just pretend to be ignorant about the outage. There is a very clear process of actions that need to be done to rectify this. You cannot make a claim that the league is great and well run considering even you yourself admit this is your first league that you have run. It has been made clear on this thread there were many complaints about the ways things happened - no publicity, no admins, no penalties until finals, no consideration for teams who FOLLOWED rules. ESEA needs to release a public apology to teams for the poor management of the league. Please understand that the sc2 division has had its problems, when I talk about ESEA being a top league. I'm referring to the years of 1.6 and source seasons that have been running with out a hitch. SC2 is an infant compared to the other games in ESEA, things will mess up and go wrong. We are fixing problems when they appear as fast as we can. ESEA is in it for the long run, and we will prove it to the community. I appreciate that you are trying to make it work better. However refusing to release a public apology (as implied in your reply) just shows everyone how far this league is willing to go in terms of professionalism, which unfortunately isn't very far. There is a difference between working towards something and refusing to admit that there were problems in the past. Look at all the other big tournaments. Do you think they publicly apologise because they like to? I don't think so. It's part of being a legitimate league.
I have apologized many times to the public and to the managers, and again I am sorry for how things turned out and how this thread has turned out. I do admit there were problems in the past, I have always tried to be as level headed as I can be. Fixing problems and trying to be successful at a league takes some steps and hard work which can take some time here and there. I'll say that so far season 2, even though it had some problems, were immensely better in terms of things being reported and delays compared to season one.
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EPT
