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On October 02 2011 12:16 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 12:14 Daralii wrote:On October 02 2011 12:13 sparklyresidue wrote:
It's really irritating to watch IdrA play... that contradiction that exists between his game knowledge and his really solid mechanics and his actual results is staggering. And it happens nearly every time, that's what is so weird, that level of predictability. I don't understand how someone can do this for a living and hit their head against the proverbial brick wall for so long... It's his mentality that's the problem. "I've been playing Starcraft for a really long time. I can't build anything I want, a-move, and win. My race is so bad, I might as well not try." Stop playing internet psychologist, please. It's realy annoying. This is what PvZ is going to be for the next few months now that you can't neural parasite a colossus unless protoss is awful. Especially when they start mixing in motherships NesTea and Coca are going to be doing a shit-load of mid-game 2/3 base all-ins to try to avoid the late game, and if they get late game, they are going to lose as well. Just watch.
Okay, show me anything more than a handful of ZVP's where neural won the zerg the game or where even used against collosus, the only time i can remember as of recent (past month or 2 before the patch) is when losira used it against a protoss player in the GSTL to great effect. That being said ive seen far far more ZVP's (look at coca) where the zerg player dominates collosus play without neural or where neural didnt have a very big impact on the game.
I have every season of Gom and if you do i would suggest you go back and watch because coca's late game ZVP is fantastic and althoug he does do 2-3 base timing pushes / drop play (against alicia on taldarim that was awesome) he is fairly well versed in laate game zvp as is nestea and losira.
Their is a reason why most protoss do timing attacks / try to end the game early against zerg and its because they cant handle the late game where zerg has unlimited production. The only protosss i see embracing the late game these days are the new generation of harass / aggressive warp prism players like Hero and JYP , Sage.
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On October 02 2011 12:28 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 12:23 Aocowns wrote:On October 02 2011 12:18 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 02 2011 12:16 SafeAsCheese wrote:On October 02 2011 12:14 Daralii wrote:On October 02 2011 12:13 sparklyresidue wrote:
It's really irritating to watch IdrA play... that contradiction that exists between his game knowledge and his really solid mechanics and his actual results is staggering. And it happens nearly every time, that's what is so weird, that level of predictability. I don't understand how someone can do this for a living and hit their head against the proverbial brick wall for so long... It's his mentality that's the problem. "I've been playing Starcraft for a really long time. I can't build anything I want, a-move, and win. My race is so bad, I might as well not try." Stop playing internet psychologist, please. It's realy annoying. This is what PvZ is going to be for the next few months now that you can't neural parasite a colossus unless protoss is awful. Especially when they start mixing in motherships NesTea and Coca are going to be doing a shit-load of mid-game 2/3 base all-ins to try to avoid the late game, and if they get late game, they are going to lose as well. Just watch. watch as NesTea and Coca consistently win games? I will. Idra has a terrible mindset, you dont need to be a psychologist to know this. Stop being such a fan boy. Yes, please do watch nestea and Coca win before the late game. That was his god damn point wasnt it? So you're saying Zerg should neglect any opportunity to win in the mid game and wait for the late game? Solid mid game play by zerg leads to terrible protoss late game. Sure, if zerg does nothing protoss is eventually going to become pretty hard to kill, it's pretty obvious right?
no, I meant what I said...? That Nestea and Coca would win BEFORE going in to late game
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On October 02 2011 12:28 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 12:26 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 02 2011 12:23 Aocowns wrote:On October 02 2011 12:18 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 02 2011 12:16 SafeAsCheese wrote:On October 02 2011 12:14 Daralii wrote:On October 02 2011 12:13 sparklyresidue wrote:
It's really irritating to watch IdrA play... that contradiction that exists between his game knowledge and his really solid mechanics and his actual results is staggering. And it happens nearly every time, that's what is so weird, that level of predictability. I don't understand how someone can do this for a living and hit their head against the proverbial brick wall for so long... It's his mentality that's the problem. "I've been playing Starcraft for a really long time. I can't build anything I want, a-move, and win. My race is so bad, I might as well not try." Stop playing internet psychologist, please. It's realy annoying. This is what PvZ is going to be for the next few months now that you can't neural parasite a colossus unless protoss is awful. Especially when they start mixing in motherships NesTea and Coca are going to be doing a shit-load of mid-game 2/3 base all-ins to try to avoid the late game, and if they get late game, they are going to lose as well. Just watch. watch as NesTea and Coca consistently win games? I will. Idra has a terrible mindset, you dont need to be a psychologist to know this. Stop being such a fan boy. Yes, please do watch nestea and Coca win before the late game. That was his god damn point wasnt it? Well then why not win in the mid game? He had chances both games and he just sat and did nothing in game one and in game two he just shit his pants to some phoenix. And before anyone says that that shouldn't happen, it was exactly the case PvT in BW. If you didn't end the game before terran got a maxed mech army, you genuinely could not win without the terran screwing up magnificently.
Yup, too many people think anyone should be able to win at any time with any unit composition.
That's not Starcraft at all.
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On October 02 2011 12:28 kurrysauce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 12:24 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 02 2011 12:16 SafeAsCheese wrote:On October 02 2011 12:14 Daralii wrote:On October 02 2011 12:13 sparklyresidue wrote:
It's really irritating to watch IdrA play... that contradiction that exists between his game knowledge and his really solid mechanics and his actual results is staggering. And it happens nearly every time, that's what is so weird, that level of predictability. I don't understand how someone can do this for a living and hit their head against the proverbial brick wall for so long... It's his mentality that's the problem. "I've been playing Starcraft for a really long time. I can't build anything I want, a-move, and win. My race is so bad, I might as well not try." Stop playing internet psychologist, please. It's realy annoying. This is what PvZ is going to be for the next few months now that you can't neural parasite a colossus unless protoss is awful. Especially when they start mixing in motherships NesTea and Coca are going to be doing a shit-load of mid-game 2/3 base all-ins to try to avoid the late game, and if they get late game, they are going to lose as well. Just watch. Losira and Nestea NEVER used neural parasite to win their ZvP games. Coca has done it rarely as well. Seriously, go find a VOD of them using it and let me know because NP was never relevant to korean ZvP. The point is not "NP IS THE ONLY WAY TO WIN ZVP" , Its the best zergs , nestea , coca and losira , try to finish their opponent off or severely damage him before the late game kicks in which is the exact opposite of what idra is trying to do . (playing like a Terran in TvZ : Turtle , trying to use drops to dwindle the economy and make small engagements to lower the colossus count and enter the late game ahead of the protoss)
Yeah, no shit it's hard to beat protoss on roach hydra corrupter when they have a maxed army. But if you let them tech up, expand, and do everything they wanted without teching up and being on a bigger economy yourself, then you got outplayed.
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On October 02 2011 09:34 laharl23 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 09:28 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On October 02 2011 08:47 eleaf wrote: Jimthis guy is actually pretty good I wish more Chinese players would participate in international tournaments so we can really decide IF they are really good. I know in a couple tournaments, Chinese players have done exceedingly well, but so far in IEM Guangzhou, Chinese players have been suffering. XiGua who is considered one of the best, got stomped hard. Sure, Jinro and Idra have slumped pretty hard, but when you have two guys who have been big dogs since BW (especially Idra), and a 15 year-old who is probably quite new to RTS, Jim isn't really Duke Nukem. I can't always bet on him :S. The chinese haven't had as much time with the game as everyone else, just give them time and they will be extremely good. They have a strong work ethic like the koreans.
Yeah, within several months they'll probably bridge the growing skill gap between Korea and non-Korea. Still, considering that most of their population into video games isn't into RTS, and most of their population into RTS is into Warcraft 3, they're still showing big progress even now.
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On October 02 2011 12:24 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 12:16 SafeAsCheese wrote:On October 02 2011 12:14 Daralii wrote:On October 02 2011 12:13 sparklyresidue wrote:
It's really irritating to watch IdrA play... that contradiction that exists between his game knowledge and his really solid mechanics and his actual results is staggering. And it happens nearly every time, that's what is so weird, that level of predictability. I don't understand how someone can do this for a living and hit their head against the proverbial brick wall for so long... It's his mentality that's the problem. "I've been playing Starcraft for a really long time. I can't build anything I want, a-move, and win. My race is so bad, I might as well not try." Stop playing internet psychologist, please. It's realy annoying. This is what PvZ is going to be for the next few months now that you can't neural parasite a colossus unless protoss is awful. Especially when they start mixing in motherships NesTea and Coca are going to be doing a shit-load of mid-game 2/3 base all-ins to try to avoid the late game, and if they get late game, they are going to lose as well. Just watch. Losira and Nestea NEVER used neural parasite to win their ZvP games. Coca has done it rarely as well. Seriously, go find a VOD of them using it and let me know because NP was never relevant to korean ZvP.
Although i do remember losira using Neural to win a game in GSTL a few weeks ago, its true that he does not use it that often and does not need it to win his zvp;s. I completely agree that NP was never relevant in korean ZVP though , and for the most part protoss have been struggling in that matchup without it. NP can be a good tool but a good player will still have no problem targetting down a 9 range np with a few swipes of their collosus or a 3-4 stalker blink up hit squad.
I thin neural was far more relevant against thors to be honest.
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On October 02 2011 12:30 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 12:28 kurrysauce wrote:On October 02 2011 12:24 Itsmedudeman wrote:On October 02 2011 12:16 SafeAsCheese wrote:On October 02 2011 12:14 Daralii wrote:On October 02 2011 12:13 sparklyresidue wrote:
It's really irritating to watch IdrA play... that contradiction that exists between his game knowledge and his really solid mechanics and his actual results is staggering. And it happens nearly every time, that's what is so weird, that level of predictability. I don't understand how someone can do this for a living and hit their head against the proverbial brick wall for so long... It's his mentality that's the problem. "I've been playing Starcraft for a really long time. I can't build anything I want, a-move, and win. My race is so bad, I might as well not try." Stop playing internet psychologist, please. It's realy annoying. This is what PvZ is going to be for the next few months now that you can't neural parasite a colossus unless protoss is awful. Especially when they start mixing in motherships NesTea and Coca are going to be doing a shit-load of mid-game 2/3 base all-ins to try to avoid the late game, and if they get late game, they are going to lose as well. Just watch. Losira and Nestea NEVER used neural parasite to win their ZvP games. Coca has done it rarely as well. Seriously, go find a VOD of them using it and let me know because NP was never relevant to korean ZvP. The point is not "NP IS THE ONLY WAY TO WIN ZVP" , Its the best zergs , nestea , coca and losira , try to finish their opponent off or severely damage him before the late game kicks in which is the exact opposite of what idra is trying to do . (playing like a Terran in TvZ : Turtle , trying to use drops to dwindle the economy and make small engagements to lower the colossus count and enter the late game ahead of the protoss) Yeah, no shit it's hard to beat protoss on roach hydra corrupter when they have a maxed army. But if you let them tech up, expand, and do everything they wanted without teching up and being on a bigger economy yourself, then you got outplayed.
Did idra do nothing?
Let me give you a recap of what he did
Harass protoss economy and lower probe count significantly even under severe phoenix pressure while losing a whopping number of 2 drones after 5 zealot rush + phoenix harass.
Lower colossus count with small engagement
Delay protoss's expansions with creep spew out of ovies
Die to protoss army even after all that harassment because He did not tech up
Yeah I'm pretty sure idra got "out played" =)
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On October 02 2011 12:32 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 09:34 laharl23 wrote:On October 02 2011 09:28 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On October 02 2011 08:47 eleaf wrote:Jimthis guy is actually pretty good I wish more Chinese players would participate in international tournaments so we can really decide IF they are really good. I know in a couple tournaments, Chinese players have done exceedingly well, but so far in IEM Guangzhou, Chinese players have been suffering. XiGua who is considered one of the best, got stomped hard. Sure, Jinro and Idra have slumped pretty hard, but when you have two guys who have been big dogs since BW (especially Idra), and a 15 year-old who is probably quite new to RTS, Jim isn't really Duke Nukem. I can't always bet on him :S. The chinese haven't had as much time with the game as everyone else, just give them time and they will be extremely good. They have a strong work ethic like the koreans. Yeah, within several months they'll probably bridge the growing skill gap between Korea and non-Korea. Still, considering that most of their population into video games isn't into RTS, and most of their population into RTS is into Warcraft 3, they're still showing big progress even now.
they are avid broodwar fans
if i remember correctly the last OSL finals had close to 4 million chinese viewers.
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Creep on the doorstep of the terran base, heh.
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On October 02 2011 12:29 Scila wrote:
I'm PRETTY sure Niagara falls is half in Canada half in the US...anybody care to clear that up?
Yes, the American Falls and the Canadian Falls.
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Quite the unit comp from Revival, ling/bling/roach/muta/infestor/ultra.
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I love how willing the commentators are to disagree with each other. Its a real quality cast.
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It's counter intuitive but strelok should've chosen to never move that army and instead spread his army better because that army was denying the gold and if the zerg went for a full counter attack he would've plenty of time to move the entire army to kill the rest of the zerg's base, any other smaller attack by the zerg would do nothing while he secured his third.
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Hahahahah I love the commentary
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STRELOOOOOK wow I thought you had lost this for sure.
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Revival looking like he's playing Ensnare again >.>
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revival plays soooo much better than this...
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bitterdam is a really great casting combo, always trying to improve too in both casting and game knowledge, in some ways i prefer them over tastosis already
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EPT
