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On September 28 2011 05:22 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:18 Olinim wrote:On September 28 2011 05:15 sermokala wrote:On September 28 2011 04:03 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 28 2011 03:57 Batdad wrote:On September 28 2011 03:50 usethis2 wrote:
Edit: Is there any Protoss confirmed in RO16 at all? I know Killer hasn't played yet. Not only are there no toss in RO16, but so far HuK is the only toss in code S to avoid the up and downs. Killer is the last chance and he's in a group with 2 terrans and DRG, so he's in tough. HuK confirmed for current best Protoss in the world? Now we know we're in deep. foreigner as best player of his race in the world :D Theres going to be 1 protoss in code S next month I can see it now. They're gona justify not buffing protoss with the winrates in normal leagues. On September 28 2011 05:11 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 28 2011 05:08 tuho12345 wrote:
No protoss so far in R16 right? HuK is the only confirmed Protoss for next season even. Only 1 protoss, TSLKiller, left to play. you put your hope in killer when hes in a group with 2 terrans and DRG and we'll see where that gets you. Like I said, being declared best Protoss in the world just because he beat Zenio who has horrible vP, to stay in Code S is kinda silly. Let's be honest, if Huk had MC's group, and his up/down group, he would be in Code A. Obviously he is smart for picking easy opponents, but that's not relevant when discussing skill. You're saying that beating Zenio is easier than losing to Monster? ok, sure, lol.
even so, it hardly means that hes the best protoss in the world.
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Stop discrediting Zenio ffs OMG!!! You don't understand how good his macro is so please stop acting like he's couldn't win a single game vs Protoss yet still stay in code S.
Everyone in code S is good at all MU. It's just not as good as other cuz no one is perfect.
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It seems like every game T won was down voted to shit, did they all cheese or something?
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Protoss sucks period... barely any Protoss left in GSL
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On September 28 2011 05:31 tuho12345 wrote:
Stop discrediting Zenio ffs OMG!!! You don't understand how good his macro is so please stop acting like he's couldn't win a single game vs Protoss yet still stay in code S.
Everyone in code S is good at all MU. It's just not as good as other cuz no one is perfect.
except proabably nestea
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So sad for HongUn T_T
At least Ganzi got throguh :D
On September 28 2011 05:47 ZOMGitsTHEEND wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:31 tuho12345 wrote:
Stop discrediting Zenio ffs OMG!!! You don't understand how good his macro is so please stop acting like he's couldn't win a single game vs Protoss yet still stay in code S.
Everyone in code S is good at all MU. It's just not as good as other cuz no one is perfect. except proabably nestea
Apparently not good enough to make him a better than average Code S player.
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Sad state of Code S when I was literally screaming at my computer in my universities library during that last game for Leenock and Genius to win it, when I myself am a die-hard Terran.
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On September 28 2011 04:02 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 22:10 sleepingdog wrote:
at this point I honestly don't know why korean protoss players keep going chargelot/archon vs terran - what is it that I'm missing?
even if colossi are vulnerable, there's still a higher chance to transition into 3rd base + templar-tech-switch than other way round; going late colossi almost never works because you just can't get the numbers...templar, on the other hand, can be warped in by a bunch once the tech is done
even the double forge mass-upgrade-style seemed more viable, since it could afford to throw away tons of chargelots while saving the stalkers with blink..... Most games involving mass collosus come down to a single engagement. If the collosus survive, protoss wins. If the collosus die, the opponent wins. With templar there is always a chance you can come back since you can mass produce them from gateways. If you go collosus tech, you have to slowly build collosus again while completely losing map control. Also, big maps are really bad for collosus since they do well in chokes. The GSL maps are really big compared to what they used to be. In short though, mass collosus is too risky, too easily scoutable, and too easily counterable. Actually thinking about it further, the nerf to KA affected this quite a bit. In the past, you could go mass collosus and get storm/KA so that once all your collosus die, you can replace them with templar. Templar were also used for defensive purposes. Without defensive templar, it's even riskier to leave your base with your ball.
But it's still weird because it's AFTER the KA nerf (well, removal) this templar play really picked up. Also for whatever reason they don't transition to robo even when they have money. When I watched Alicia v. Select, I was waiting and waiting for Alicia to build a robo. He had like 2K/1K banked up yet refused to build a robo even for observers.
There were some nice games in last seasons code A where toss opened with templars on 2 base then transitioned to colossus once 3rd and 4th were taken. But it's hard to see such transitions these days. Why?
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On September 28 2011 05:43 ShootingStars wrote:
Protoss players sucks period... barely any Protoss left in GSL
fyp
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this is how you fix colossus take away ranged buff but they can't be hit by air anymore.
On September 28 2011 05:50 usethis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 04:02 darmousseh wrote:On September 27 2011 22:10 sleepingdog wrote:
at this point I honestly don't know why korean protoss players keep going chargelot/archon vs terran - what is it that I'm missing?
even if colossi are vulnerable, there's still a higher chance to transition into 3rd base + templar-tech-switch than other way round; going late colossi almost never works because you just can't get the numbers...templar, on the other hand, can be warped in by a bunch once the tech is done
even the double forge mass-upgrade-style seemed more viable, since it could afford to throw away tons of chargelots while saving the stalkers with blink..... Most games involving mass collosus come down to a single engagement. If the collosus survive, protoss wins. If the collosus die, the opponent wins. With templar there is always a chance you can come back since you can mass produce them from gateways. If you go collosus tech, you have to slowly build collosus again while completely losing map control. Also, big maps are really bad for collosus since they do well in chokes. The GSL maps are really big compared to what they used to be. In short though, mass collosus is too risky, too easily scoutable, and too easily counterable. Actually thinking about it further, the nerf to KA affected this quite a bit. In the past, you could go mass collosus and get storm/KA so that once all your collosus die, you can replace them with templar. Templar were also used for defensive purposes. Without defensive templar, it's even riskier to leave your base with your ball. But it's still weird because it's AFTER the KA nerf (well, removal) this templar play really picked up. Also for whatever reason they don't transition to robo even when they have money. When I watched Alicia v. Select, I was waiting and waiting for Alicia to build a robo. He had like 2K/1K banked up yet refused to build a robo even for observers. There were some nice games in last seasons code A where toss opened with templars on 2 base then transitioned to colossus once 3rd and 4th were taken. But it's hard to see such transitions these days. Why?
Alicia did build observers. And the reason is because terran didn't use ghost back then as well as they did now, or at all. EMP just hard counters templar too much they either need to make it a projectile, upgrade, shorter range, or make templar faster to fix it.
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On September 28 2011 05:50 humbre wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:43 ShootingStars wrote:
Protoss players sucks period... barely any Protoss left in GSL fyp
Wanna explain to me how it's even statistically plausible not a single Code S quality Professional player picked Protoss? Oh who am I kidding, a post that would require more than 2 ounces of thought? From you? Nevermind.
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I just can't see balance in buffing play like HongUn's until he's competitive with people like Nestea, DRG, MVP, and Bomber.
The game would be extremely out of whack.
Not to mention the fact that balancing a game played by millions based on a sample size of 30-40 people is foolish.
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On September 28 2011 05:47 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:So sad for HongUn T_T At least Ganzi got throguh :D Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:47 ZOMGitsTHEEND wrote:On September 28 2011 05:31 tuho12345 wrote:
Stop discrediting Zenio ffs OMG!!! You don't understand how good his macro is so please stop acting like he's couldn't win a single game vs Protoss yet still stay in code S.
Everyone in code S is good at all MU. It's just not as good as other cuz no one is perfect. except proabably nestea Apparently not good enough to make him a better than average Code S player.
obviously more than average as he has 3 gsl titles
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On September 28 2011 05:59 fant0m wrote:
I just can't see balance in buffing play like HongUn's until he's competitive with people like Nestea, DRG, MVP, and Bomber.
The game would be extremely out of whack.
Not to mention the fact that balancing a game played by millions based on a sample size of 30-40 people is foolish.
Not if you want the game to be watchable at a high level.
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Obviously blizzard should make balance decisions solely on the performance of 32 players. You guys have it all figured out.
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On September 28 2011 06:02 worldsnap wrote:
Obviously blizzard should make balance decisions solely on the performance of 32 players. You guys have it all figured out.
When their representation and winrates have been rapidly declining ever since Protoss was nerfed out of GSL, plus even in KR ladder protoss has poor winrates, perhaps. Plus it's not just representation, anyone can look at Huk vs Virus and call bullshit on 1/1/1.
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On September 28 2011 04:30 Merfyn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 04:17 Olinim wrote:On September 28 2011 03:11 Kazeyonoma wrote:+ Show Spoiler +metagame shifts are always what leads the major swings in the gameplay. look at scbw. people constantly crying for blizz to fix things gets annoying. maps can fix issues, meta game can fix it. strategies, etc. it's just bs that ONE tournament goes out and suddenly "ZOMG BLIZZ FIX PRZ". Code A is a testament to Protoss doing okay. The protosses that lost last night, played TERRIBLY. Genius had some moments of amazing gameplay and game sense, and made it look like he was going to win. THEN engaged in a TERRIBLE concave and didn't get his zealots engaged, and lost his entire army, as well as dropping all of his templars in a clump to just get chain emp'd. He had the right strategy in mind, he just executed poorly. Protoss players should watch that vod, and see what he did, and improve upon it. why drop the storm RIGHT there? Why not have them more on the side where they'd have a more strategic advantage terrain wise, or d click drop so they drop in a line instead of 1 in spot. I know protoss aren't used to using drop ships like terrans are but once they learn, it'll be a potent tool. Warp Prisms currently can fly right over a turret/spore and still survive.... ABUSE THIS. All Code A is a testament to is that if Protoss players try REALLY hard, maybe they can beat some mediocre Code A zergs. Too bad in Code S, where it actually matters, they can't even win a game. Also, if you hold any delusions about Sage or JYP doing any better in Code S I don't know what to say. There are tons Terran players also played horribly, Virus vs Huk, how many times did he get supply blocked? I'm sure I could find tons of a mistakes that they made, or Terrans that are much worse than Protoss that have fallen. The difference? Well I think that's obvious at this point. Im sorry, but what your saying is rediculus, the problem with Protoss currently in Code S is that they Are still trying to do Stuff from 1 month ago, Give me one protoss in Code S, that played the game like Sage did, or Even TAiLS did in the GSTL. The New wave of protoss, is not only fun to watch, but is atchualy viable, mabey the Protosses like MC, HuK, HonGun (looool) should try somthing eles that +2 blink stalker timing that Fails and then they have to resort to , OMG Protoss is UP QQ i cry tears for Auir! We should do what Zergs had to slog though a few months ago, and get down on our hands and knees and crack out somthing Balling build orders (I play Protoss before anyone goes "OMG you prob play T and your OP!") :D
Your spelling of "atchualy" really got me curious enough to check out your country-of-origin. UK? Really?
What is funny about your post is you quote TAiLs and Sage's games as spectacular protoss play, when they both won via DTs killing the lair. And if you think the future "standard" of PvZ involves the zerg losing his lair every game, then I don't even know why I am bothering to argue with you.
Analysis: TAILS got his dt's into nestea's main my walking right through a sporecrawler and nestea's army wandering about. Sage used a cheesy 8 dt drop that is completely "close your eyes and pray". And in both cases they succeeded because their opponent made an error.
Not to mention, even AFTER losing his lair, nestea was still in the game. But his drop got caught.
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What's ironic is how many PvPs we are going to be having in the up and down matches with the number of Protoss qualifying for them in Code A.
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People whining balance because Genius and Hongun didn't make it through? rofl.
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On September 28 2011 06:44 NoobSh1t wrote:
People whining balance because Genius and Hongun didn't make it through? rofl.
I know.
You'd figure after Genius's complete dismantling by Top last season and Hongun's being completely slaughtered by July that these two being knocked out wouldn't come as too huge of a shock considering guys like Alicia and MC were already being knocked down.
Poor Puzzle though. If he had been in Hongun's group I'm sure he would have advanced. Group B was just too much.
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EPT
