EPTDestiny v Korea - Showmatch Series - Page 43
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Ipp
United States456 Posts
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PirateEd
United States61 Posts
On August 22 2011 06:50 Supamang wrote: The amount of people coming in here to insult and badmouth a player is just disgusting. Everyone is ready to defend Rain against unnecessary hate (because despite a bad first impression he actually is very good), but yet people keep going on and on about how Destiny really isnt good. Anyone who is ready to defend Destiny gets called a "fanboy". At what point will those blindly insulting destiny, blindly making excuses for Rain, and blindly calling people fanboys finally look at themselves and realize how stupid theyre being? Maybe everyone youre bitching at arent fanboys, maybe youre just a fucking hater. Rain is a former code s player. He also posted very good results at the last MLG. What has Destiny done? People aren't blind calling out "Destiny fanboy." It's those who say "OMG Destiny's build is so good, protoss can't counter it" or "Destiny has top 3 zerg control" only because Destiny has said it on his stream. Destiny says this stuff and backs it up by winning a little more than 50% of his games on the NA ladder. I'm not anti Destiny or anything, he's entertaining and he has a fun build to watch but he's simply not as good as many think. I think it's safe to say that someone is a Destiny fanboy when they are hyping him up to be better than players such as Idra or Ret. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
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GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:14 TheSubtleArt wrote: If Destiny only wins because he abuses infestors then what about Idra? I guess he's a mutalisk abuser? What about MMA? He's a marine / tank abuser? Seriously wtf, it's a unique and fairly interesting approach to the Zerg midgame that few top Zergs are doing. Why does Destiny get put down because of it =/. People perceive infestors to be imbalanced though. Is that really hard to understand? | ||
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PirateEd
United States61 Posts
On July 29 2011 08:45 Destiny wrote: 1118 posts. How many different ways does Idra play ZvT? Or ZvZ? Why don't you make fun of Z's that do muta/ling/bling vs T? Or hydra/roach/corrupter vs P? The difference between Idra going those builds is that that is an established build and can win games without relying on his opponent not to know how to counter it. Mass infestors is a good build to use maybe once in a best of 3. However, if your opponent knows it is coming and has sufficiently studied the build, it can be easily countered. | ||
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Syorm
131 Posts
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:15 GreyKnight wrote: People perceive infestors to be imbalanced though. Is that really hard to understand? That's my point though. Why can't we just credit Destiny for showing a unique play style and using it to score a win against a very good Korean player. I mean seriously, this storyline is amazing. Here's a guy who sucked bigtime just a few months ago and was literally known only for his crude language and antics. Inspired by his love of the game, he worked his ass off to improve and now took a series off a former Code S player with an interesting and unorthodox style very few top Zergs in Korea use. It's awesome, but instead of appreciating the games and congratulating Destiny, the internet hate machine revs up and blasts the guy, and then completely rejects the credibility of his win and pins on imbalance, because we're not tired of balance complaints yet. I guess what I'm asking is why can't some people just appreciate starcraft instead of being pessimistic bastards who actively seek things to hate and be mad about. | ||
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koolaid1990
831 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:36 TheSubtleArt wrote: That's my point though. Why can't we just credit Destiny for showing a unique play style and using it to score a win against a very good Korean player. I mean seriously, this storyline is amazing. Here's a guy who sucked bigtime just a few months ago and was literally known only for his crude language and antics. Inspired by his love of the game, he worked his ass off to improve and now took a series off a former Code S player with an interesting and unorthodox style very few top Zergs in Korea use. It's awesome, but instead of appreciating the games and congratulating Destiny, the internet hate machine revs up and blasts the guy, and then completely rejects the credibility of his win and pins on imbalance, because we're not tired of balance complaints yet. I guess what I'm asking is why can't some people just appreciate starcraft instead of being pessimistic bastards who actively seek things to hate and be mad about. The thing is, people do support Destiny. He has a shit ton of fanboys who love his style. The other thing is, Destiny only has 1 style, so once they figure him out, hes fucked. He beat the koreans because he took them by surprise with his unique style, but as you noticed, Destiny gets fucked in every MLG by some no names. This is because they all know his style because he's incredibly popular in NA, so they use builds directly countering his infestor style. A solid solid zerg would be able to use Destiny's style in maybe 2 games in a b07, then use other styles like muta ling bling, roach ling infestor, etc. to vary up the play. | ||
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Kieofire
United States1809 Posts
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koolaid1990
831 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:14 TheSubtleArt wrote: If Destiny only wins because he abuses infestors then what about Idra? I guess he's a mutalisk abuser? What about MMA? He's a marine / tank abuser? Seriously wtf, it's a unique and fairly interesting approach to the Zerg midgame that few top Zergs are doing. Why does Destiny get put down because of it =/. Comparing infestors is different that mutalisk or marine/tank. The mutalisk is seen as a perfectly balanced unit, good for harass, but also very fragile. The thing is, was destiny as good as he is now with the recent infestor buff? No, destiny used the infestor buff to his advantage and only uses infestors now. This can be seen as abusing it. The thing about this is, infestors are popularly seen as imba, so blizzard might nerf them. What then? Destiny will have to change his style completely. Right now, marine/tanks/mutas are seen as normal standard units that need no buff or nerf. Thats why using them is not abusing anything, as they are standard to the game. Another example is using reapers when they were SUPER GOOD. Morrow "abused" the use of reapers. Right after, blizzard nerfed them, and morrow changed to zerg lololol | ||
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maruchan
31 Posts
Every time Destiny has lost in a MLG, it's been because he is mediocre at holding timing pushes. Not because someone countered his style in a straight up macro game. If he took a few days and really drilled holding off all-ins and pushes, he would be a MUCH better tournament player. | ||
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Lavalamp799
United States554 Posts
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wklbishop
United States1286 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:48 maruchan wrote: Why do people keep saying that no-names "counter" his infestor style? Every time Destiny has lost in a MLG, it's been because he is mediocre at holding timing pushes. Not because someone countered his style in a straight up macro game. If he took a few days and really drilled holding off all-ins and pushes, he would be a MUCH better tournament player. Destiny himself stated that a protoss named State blind countered him pretty badly and beat him at the Open Winner's bracket of MLG in his interview with CSN. | ||
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koolaid1990
831 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:48 maruchan wrote: Why do people keep saying that no-names "counter" his infestor style? Every time Destiny has lost in a MLG, it's been because he is mediocre at holding timing pushes. Not because someone countered his style in a straight up macro game. If he took a few days and really drilled holding off all-ins and pushes, he would be a MUCH better tournament player. bro he just said in an interview, he lost to tQstate or vileState, who knew destiny's style and destiny played into that and lost. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:47 koolaid1990 wrote: Comparing infestors is different that mutalisk or marine/tank. The mutalisk is seen as a perfectly balanced unit, good for harass, but also very fragile. The thing is, was destiny as good as he is now with the recent infestor buff? No, destiny used the infestor buff to his advantage and only uses infestors now. This can be seen as abusing it. The thing about this is, infestors are popularly seen as imba, so blizzard might nerf them. What then? Destiny will have to change his style completely. Right now, marine/tanks/mutas are seen as normal standard units that need no buff or nerf. Thats why using them is not abusing anything, as they are standard to the game. Another example is using reapers when they were SUPER GOOD. Morrow "abused" the use of reapers. Right after, blizzard nerfed them, and morrow changed to zerg lololol Yes, that was exactly why Morrow switched to Zerg + Show Spoiler + lolololololol lolololol Seriously what the fuck are you getting at with this post? I hope you don't take up debating. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:54 koolaid1990 wrote: bro he just said in an interview, he lost to tQstate or vileState, who knew destiny's style and destiny played into that and lost. He's also said before (in this very thread actually) that his style has the capability to adapt to different situations. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
Well, missed the 1st one neways. :< | ||
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koolaid1990
831 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:54 TheSubtleArt wrote: Yes, that was exactly why Morrow switched to Zerg + Show Spoiler + lolololololol lolololol Seriously what the fuck are you getting at with this post? I hope you don't take up debating. Tell me this; Was destiny as nearly as good as he is right now BEFORE the infestor buff? Tell me this; were protoss THIS helpless against zerg BEFORE the infestor buff? You can't deny that infestors helped ALOT. And its not like the game was imbalanced BEFORE the infestor buff, zvp and zvt were pretty balanced. And tell me; in what world and when would mutas would EVER be nerfed? Mutas will not be nerfed. There is just no way mutas will be nerfed because then zerg is really really fucked. Infestors are seen as a little imbalanced, so theres actually a high chance blizzard will nerf infestors. This is the reality. You can't deny that infestors will sooner or later be nerfed, and you can't deny that mutas will never be nerfed. David kim already hinted at an infestor nerf by saying infestor/broodlord is pretty op | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:16 PirateEd wrote: The difference between Idra going those builds is that that is an established build and can win games without relying on his opponent not to know how to counter it. Mass infestors is a good build to use maybe once in a best of 3. However, if your opponent knows it is coming and has sufficiently studied the build, it can be easily countered. If it can be easily countered, anybody who ever knows they're going to play Destiny would roftstomp him. Instead, he's won several showmatches against players people put a tier above him (incontrol, Rain). I think that ling/bling/muta is only an "established build" because Idra established it. Starcraft is not about copying what most of the pros do -- it's a strategy game. What's wrong with Destiny trying to "establish" his own build? Just because it's not popular with the other pros, it's wrong on some kind of ethical level? And don't all pros rely on their opponents not knowing how to counter their strategies to a certain extent, whether through a bad BO or through bad mechanics/gamesense/multitask/decision-making? Also, I don't understand why being a fanboy is an insult. Is it suddenly a horrible thing to like a certain player or play style? | ||
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koolaid1990
831 Posts
On August 22 2011 10:04 zarepath wrote: If it can be easily countered, anybody who ever knows they're going to play Destiny would roftstomp him. Instead, he's won several showmatches against players people put a tier above him (incontrol, Rain). I think that ling/bling/muta is only an "established build" because Idra established it. Starcraft is not about copying what most of the pros do -- it's a strategy game. What's wrong with Destiny trying to "establish" his own build? Just because it's not popular with the other pros, it's wrong on some kind of ethical level? And don't all pros rely on their opponents not knowing how to counter their strategies to a certain extent, whether through a bad BO or through bad mechanics/gamesense/multitask/decision-making? Also, I don't understand why being a fanboy is an insult. Is it suddenly a horrible thing to like a certain player or play style? Its not about establishing builds. I mean i love destiny, and its great he established his own build, but hes just riding on the infestor buff. What happens when infestors are nerfed? which will likely happen as protosses are getting raped left and right by zergs i mean which protoss has zvp as their best matchup? even MC lost to d.killer by infestors | ||
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