EPT1) Cloak a single ghost
2) Walk forward
3) Snipe overseers if any still alive
4) Snipe broodlords and emp infestors
5) Return to step one when first ghost runs out of energy or dies
Destiny v Korea - Showmatch Series - Page 31
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kedinik
United States352 Posts
1) Cloak a single ghost 2) Walk forward 3) Snipe overseers if any still alive 4) Snipe broodlords and emp infestors 5) Return to step one when first ghost runs out of energy or dies | ||
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LastDance
New Zealand510 Posts
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shtdisturbance
Canada613 Posts
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On July 28 2011 09:35 kedinik wrote: Here is the verbal flowchart that most terrans don't even really attempt, and which handles mass infestor/brood lord really well. 1) Cloak a single ghost 2) Walk forward 3) Snipe overseers if any still alive 4) Snipe broodlords and emp infestors 5) Return to step one when first ghost runs out of energy or dies It pained me watching Byun vs Losira Byun had like 10 ghosts, and sent them all foward to emp at once Fungaled, fungal, fungal, all ghosts explode He almost won the battle, but because he didn't keep a few ghosts back to emp the next row of infestors he lost his whole army... Clumpage  | ||
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shr0ud
Finland222 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
Rage Quit TV should a do a "Hater vs Destiny" showmatch series in which haters are PMed to compete w/ Destiny in a series of bo1 showmatches. I bet all the haters could possibly do is cheese instead of playing straight up, because not many people can handle playing a macro game vs Destiny since his late-game is so solid. | ||
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MrDudeMan
Canada973 Posts
On July 28 2011 09:29 Bagi wrote: Yet funnily enough you couldn't point me a single game where ghosts were effective. Speaks volumes of how much you actually know. It's a common terran complaint that you have to do serious damage in the early/midgame to be able to deal with zerg in the lategame. Does that constitute as sloppy play from the zerg? Maybe, but terran simply cannot compete in equal situations. For example, I just watched Empire.Kas beat Catz in a BO5 showmatch last week, where many games included BL/infestor. He didn't build a single ghost, but instead outmaneuvered his opponent from the start, then overran him with marine/viking. Guess he's just another terran noob who doesn't know how to use ghosts, hmm? You really should consider cutting down on the rofl's and trolling accusations though, makes you look like a little brat. It's also a common zerg complaint that 2rax is extremely strong, yet every terran player still does it given the chance. I don't quite understand what you are saying here, just because mass ghosts are not experimented with does not mean they are not a viable solution. If that was the way SC2 worked, then every zerg would be going mass infestors instead of just a few. The reason why destiny's infestor/broodlord is so strong is because it plays to his advantages, micro. Rain could have played the games where he lost far better then he did. Infestors are just as fragile as ghosts are. If they are out of position or pull too far ahead they get destroyed by tank fire/emp's. Destiny does not even get detection, and he doesn't have incredibly superb eyesight to spot cloaked ghosts. It's odd that no terran players queue up emps similarly to how destiny queues up infested terrans. | ||
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akalarry
United States1978 Posts
On July 28 2011 09:29 Bagi wrote: Yet funnily enough you couldn't point me a single game where ghosts were effective. Speaks volumes of how much you actually know. It's a common terran complaint that you have to do serious damage in the early/midgame to be able to deal with zerg in the lategame. Does that constitute as sloppy play from the zerg? Maybe, but terran simply cannot compete in equal situations. For example, I just watched Empire.Kas beat Catz in a BO5 showmatch last week, where many games included BL/infestor. He didn't build a single ghost, but instead outmaneuvered his opponent from the start, then overran him with marine/viking. Guess he's just another terran noob who doesn't know how to use ghosts, hmm? You really should consider cutting down on the rofl's and trolling accusations though, makes you look like a little brat. games where ghosts are used well? watch morrow and byun. they are pretty good at using them. | ||
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dar5283
United States65 Posts
People will continue to complain about Infestors, but truth is, if they are matched with an equal number on HT/Ghost, Infestors will lose(tbh, even a few less than even numbers, and Infestors still lose). I'm not going to keep relying, so I'll just leave this here, and anyone else can defend if they want. Do people realize how easy it is to target an Infestor with feedback? You do realize how big they are, right? Now look at it from the other side. Do you realize how hard it is to NP a High Templar? They are small units, that hide under Collossi, blend with Zealots, are covered in Stalkers/Immortals/Archons, etc. If you go into a test map and try out Feedback vs. Neural Parasite, you will also see that feedback is an instant cast spell, whereas with Neural Parasite, you actually have to wait the time for the tentacle to hit the unit(it's not too long, but much longer than feedback and EMP). As for ghosts: A SINGLE GHOST will be able to EMP upwards of 4-6 Infestors. So if you aren't equaling your number of ghosts, to the Zerg's number of Infestors, don't come in here complaining about how OP Infestors are. Back to the comparison of Feedback to Neural Parasite, EMP works to same as Feedback, there is NO wait time for the spell to take affect. On top of that, a ghost can cloak, snipe,nuke, and still deal damage without spells. So in the end, Infestors are still the weakest spellcaster, but if the other races refuse to match units, Infestors will always be a bigger threat. If you don't match units for Infestors, you will have some SERIOUS problems. If you don't match units for High Templar, the threat is MUCH less. If you don't match units for ghosts, the threat is very minimal(as long as you're not Protoss, than it becomes a serious problem if you can't neutralize the ghosts). | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On July 28 2011 09:40 MrDudeMan wrote: It's also a common zerg complaint that 2rax is extremely strong, yet every terran player still does it given the chance. I don't quite understand what you are saying here, just because mass ghosts are not experimented with does not mean they are not a viable solution. If that was the way SC2 worked, then every zerg would be going mass infestors instead of just a few. The reason why destiny's infestor/broodlord is so strong is because it plays to his advantages, micro. Rain could have played the games where he lost far better then he did. Infestors are just as fragile as ghosts are. If they are out of position or pull too far ahead they get destroyed by tank fire/emp's. Destiny does not even get detection, and he doesn't have incredibly superb eyesight to spot cloaked ghosts. It's odd that no terran players queue up emps similarly to how destiny queues up infested terrans. I'm not denying mass ghost has potential, thats why my first reply on the subject was to ask for replays. I wanna see it and learn to do it myself, because I've only really failed miserably with it. What annoys me are people who just go "god these pro players are so dumb, JUST BUILD GHOSTS". The situation is far more complicated than that. | ||
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Ryzu
United States369 Posts
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Moralez
Portugal1857 Posts
On July 28 2011 09:39 shr0ud wrote: This made me sad if nothing else to see a clearly better player losing to gimmick. Hilarious post. Destiny won because today he was the better player simple as that. | ||
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kedinik
United States352 Posts
Just hoping he has some kind of reputation as "the NA dude who keeps beating us with mass infestor play" or something like that. | ||
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Destiny
United States280 Posts
On July 28 2011 09:29 Bagi wrote: Yet funnily enough you couldn't point me a single game where ghosts were effective. Speaks volumes of how much you actually know. It's a common terran complaint that you have to do serious damage in the early/midgame to be able to deal with zerg in the lategame. Does that constitute as sloppy play from the zerg? Maybe, but terran simply cannot compete in equal situations. For example, I just watched Empire.Kas beat Catz in a BO5 showmatch last week, where many games included BL/infestor. He didn't build a single ghost, but instead outmaneuvered his opponent from the start, then overran him with marine/viking. Guess he's just another terran noob who doesn't know how to use ghosts, hmm? You really should consider cutting down on the rofl's and trolling accusations though, makes you look like a little brat. You REALLY need to NEVER post in ANY of these forums talking about strategy until you can demonstrate that you have a higher-than-bronze level understanding of higher level aspects of this game. For someone to come onto these forums and say absolutely absurd things like "GHOSTS R FRAJILE" and "THEY R EXPENSIV LOL" and "2 HARD 2 MICRO JUST MAEK MOAR VIKIG AND MAERINE LOL" shows a SERIOUS lack of thought. Ghosts are INCREDIBLY underused units that have a great deal of potential. They're very unexplored right now, even in upper level terran play. With proper micro, they can literally counter all Zerg Tier 3, plus infestors. Seriously, don't just herp derp watch Koreans play and blindly follow whatever they do like gospel without putting some thought into your own words first. Thank you. | ||
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vnlegend
United States1389 Posts
On July 28 2011 09:40 MrDudeMan wrote: It's also a common zerg complaint that 2rax is extremely strong, yet every terran player still does it given the chance. I don't quite understand what you are saying here, just because mass ghosts are not experimented with does not mean they are not a viable solution. If that was the way SC2 worked, then every zerg would be going mass infestors instead of just a few. The reason why destiny's infestor/broodlord is so strong is because it plays to his advantages, micro. Rain could have played the games where he lost far better then he did. Infestors are just as fragile as ghosts are. If they are out of position or pull too far ahead they get destroyed by tank fire/emp's. Destiny does not even get detection, and he doesn't have incredibly superb eyesight to spot cloaked ghosts. It's odd that no terran players queue up emps similarly to how destiny queues up infested terrans. Right. Except infestors are used as a defensive unit while it's the brood lords that are moving ahead to kill stuff. The Infestors just chill in the back to fungal vikings/marines that try to snipe the brood lords. The only times Destiny used them on the offense was burrowed to spawn mass Infested Terrans. If the Zerg sees any ripples coming towards its army, bam! fungal = dead ghosts. Ghosts can't even take out all of the Infestor's energy, needs like 2-3 hits to fully drain. Infestors are big, they don't clump like marines or templars/sentries. Infestors on defense can always get away by fungal'ing whatever's coming towards it. You'd have to be an idiot to constantly run your infestors into tank lines, not that the tank would be attacking the infestor anyway because it's too busy attacking Broodlings or unsieging and running away. Anyway I'm gonna try to figure out my own counter to this. Maybe instead of vikings I make mass ghosts to snipe the Broodlords while in range protected by tanks. Even so, 2 suicidal infestors can kill all the ghosts. Or I cheese the Zerg to death so they never make it to mass Infestors. | ||
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MrDudeMan
Canada973 Posts
On July 28 2011 09:45 Bagi wrote: I'm not denying mass ghost has potential, thats why my first reply on the subject was to ask for replays. I wanna see it and learn to do it myself, because I've only really failed miserably with it. What annoys me are people who just go "god these pro players are so dumb, JUST BUILD GHOSTS". The situation is far more complicated than that. It is more complicated then just massing ghosts, but the same applies to destinys build. Winning with mass infestors in ZvT is not an easy A click strat, your micro has to be better then your opponents. Its even harder in ZvP. Also, rain made poor decisions with the ghosts he made. | ||
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shr0ud
Finland222 Posts
On July 28 2011 09:45 Moralez wrote: Hilarious post. Destiny won because today he was the better player simple as that. Please, are you actually telling me it takes a better player to win with mass infestors? Hilarious post, indeed. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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eourcs
United States459 Posts
On July 28 2011 09:35 kedinik wrote: Here is the verbal flowchart that most terrans don't even really attempt, and which handles mass infestor/brood lord really well. 1) Cloak a single ghost 2) Walk forward 3) Snipe overseers if any still alive 4) Snipe broodlords and emp infestors 5) Return to step one when first ghost runs out of energy or dies I hope you do know that fungal reveals cloaked units, so unless the zerg is blind, ghosts alone shouldn't be able to do half the things you said. I don't think infestors are imbalanced, but stop trying to make it seem like it's really simple to beat them. If it was, there would be no top terrans complaining about them and that is currently not the case. | ||
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
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Mifec
Croatia31 Posts
On July 28 2011 09:51 shr0ud wrote: Please, are you actually telling me it takes a better player to win with mass infestors? Hilarious post, indeed. Yes because you totally don't need crazy good micro for those infestors and 1 EMP totally doesn't fuck your whole army up if they are clumped right? | ||
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