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On July 28 2011 09:14 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 09:10 a5mod wrote:Because ghosts are actually a big investment, and are also units that are very fragile. And infestors are free and doesn't get annihilated in one shot by everything right ? Terran already needs tanks and medis. They dont have any barracks with tech labs on usually. Getting ghosts is much more difficult for terran than getting infestors for zerg.
Against mass infestors many medivacs are useless. You only need enough to drop around the map. For direct battles they cannot save Bio from 2 fungals.
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On July 28 2011 09:12 integrity wrote:
as a hater of destiny. i feel the need to come here to tell him gratz. very nice showmatch
GTFO! We don't don't like your kind around here.
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I think Rain would have won if he'd just spread his vikings. Or bio.
But well done to Destiny for winning!
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On July 28 2011 09:08 vnlegend wrote:
Lackluster series really. Destiny seemed like a one trick pony just abusing one unit every single game. I'd be interested in seeing how Koreans approach a counter to this mass Infestor style. Infestors already do well vs marines, now they can kill vikings/armored units too, with MUCH higher dps.
+ Show Spoiler +Destiny beat Bomber with mass, mass infestors. Bomber couldn't adapt, lost.
A week later Destiny played Ace (also from Star Tale) in the same online event, the GeForce ProAm.
Presumably Bomber told him "This guy just masses infestors, metagame the shit out of him."
Mass upgrades, mass zealot and lots of fast HT's and a few archons mixed in. Could not have had a more perfect anti-ling/infestor comp.
Steven simply had much, much better positioning and micro when they engaged. Took a big lead early when superior micro saw Ace's army massacred, used his advantage to macro up and pressure. Ace couldn't recover.
It's not like "being really really good at all aspects of the game" is a gimmick.
Admittedly, it helps that lots of protoss and terran are simply bad at dealing with infestors but the tools are there.
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On July 28 2011 09:15 ShaperofDreams wrote:
many butt-hurt bronzes in the thread....
great and intense series, well played Rain, congrats Destiny! Very good patience/panic control there.
many fanboy zergs in the thread who say anyone who dislikes destiny's playstyle is bronze....
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On July 28 2011 09:12 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 09:11 wats0n wrote:On July 28 2011 09:01 Skydancer wrote:
Destiny is really strong but he almost play every game the same way... Why do people keep saying this? He beat Bomber with mutalisks and Puzzle with ultras. Haters are gonna hate I guess but do people think you can just build one unit and beat code s Koreans? are you kidding? just because you add onto ling infestor when you can afford it doesn't mean it's not the same build (usually 15 minutes into the game when destiny is just taking his 3rd on 44 drones)
He beat Bomber with mutalisks one game not infestors.
It doesn't matter how he wins. Every player is expected to use their race to achieve victory. I find it hilarious that bronze idiots on the interwebz think infestors win games yet they could never do it.
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On July 28 2011 09:10 a5mod wrote:Show nested quote +Because ghosts are actually a big investment, and are also units that are very fragile. And infestors are free and doesn't get annihilated in one shot by everything right ?
I have a feeling replying to you is a mistake, but where exactly did I imply that?
When protected by broodlords, infestors do get much harder to reach. Thats the whole point of the unit composition. Ghosts only have tanks to protect them, who sadly cannot hit air.
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On July 28 2011 09:10 lunchforthesky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 09:08 vnlegend wrote:
Lackluster series really. Destiny seemed like a one trick pony just abusing one unit every single game. I'd be interested in seeing how Koreans approach a counter to this mass Infestor style. Infestors already do well vs marines, now they can kill vikings/armored units too, with MUCH higher dps.
Why isn't Nestea using them more eh? Nestea's too busy winning hundreds of thousands of $$$ to watch Destiny stream I guess.
Well Nestea used it against Ensnare in Ro16.
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On July 28 2011 09:15 ShaperofDreams wrote:
many butt-hurt bronzes in the thread....
great and intense series, well played Rain, congrats Destiny! Very good patience/panic control there.
Just because someone doesn't like your favourite player, doesn't mean they're in bronze. But congrats Destiny.
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On July 28 2011 09:06 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 08:58 akalarry wrote:On July 28 2011 08:56 Bagi wrote:On July 28 2011 08:52 akalarry wrote:
watching this game is like watching colossus/stalker/sentry vs roach/hydra
pros should know how to adapt and learn. it's not rocket science or anything. does he REALLY think vikings can counter infestor/brood lord and can get ghosts 25 min into the game. You've been talking alot about these ghosts, how about sharing some replays/VODs where ghosts dominate? Whenever I see terrans get ghosts, they end up largely ineffective or not worth the cost. Might as well spam vikings/marines at their army and hope it breaks instead. Some terran pros I've heard say ghosts aren't really that effective of an counter, since they get easily sniped by fungals and BL fire. Also tbh I would be interested in learning ghost use. Currently I can't pull it off at all. even if terran gets ghosts, i still think zerg is way stronger. but how can you NOT get ghosts in that situation?????????? that's my point. not that ghosts would be op against that composition just think about it. Because ghosts are actually a big investment, and are also units that are very fragile. One mistake and it's a ton of minerals/gas down the drain that could've been more vikings and marines instead. Ghosts just haven't proven to be worth it when you can get equally good or better results by making more vikings and spreading them out. If your marines/vikings get caught by fungal, its less of an issue since they are pretty cheap and you have the tech for them anyway. Ghosts are just an alternative "counter" that sometimes pays off but usually doesn't. If you're gonna admit ghosts aren't the key to countering that unit comp, then you really shouldn't be rambling here about them either, at least not in that tone.
rofl i cant believe you actually wrote this.
you really think marine/tank/viking will beat broodlord/infestor? (let alone 100 zerglings) ghosts haven't been proven? find me ONE game where terran wins with just marine/tank/viking against this build where the zerg didn't play sloppy.
did you watch the games? rain could've easily emped every single clumped up infestor with cloak.
i never said ghosts aren't the key. I said even with ghosts, i think zerg has the advantage. however it is 10x better with ghosts than without.
nevermind i think you're trolling
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On July 28 2011 09:16 Dragar wrote:
I think Rain would have won if he'd just spread his vikings. Or bio.
But well done to Destiny for winning!
I don't think so. He tried that several times but Destiny was way too fast with his fungals. So there was no actual way that rain could have won or yes it was but he tried his very best but that last game destiny just played really well. It shocked me actually how he came back that game O.o
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Gratz Destiny, I'm kinda pissed I missed this showmatch though... 
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I'm kind of curious what Rain's practice looks like since his team swap. He's in the kind of nether world between Korean or foreign. None the less, good games. Destiny has improved a lot. I'm not a fan of him or his style of play, but I can't deny that he's getting results.
On July 28 2011 09:15 justinpal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 09:12 integrity wrote:
as a hater of destiny. i feel the need to come here to tell him gratz. very nice showmatch GTFO! We don't don't like your kind around here.
Was that an intentional double negative or are you just retarded?
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On July 26 2011 22:36 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 22:26 Gao Xi wrote:
Destiny is going to win, more because Rain is bad. Yeah, just a longtime code S player, he must suck horribly. The infestor-masser whose biggest achievement is having a popular stream will surely beat him.
This is toooooooooo sweeeeeeeeetttttttttttttttt
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On July 28 2011 09:17 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 09:15 ShaperofDreams wrote:
many butt-hurt bronzes in the thread....
great and intense series, well played Rain, congrats Destiny! Very good patience/panic control there. many fanboy zergs in the thread who say anyone who dislikes destiny's playstyle is bronze....
Just one 
Anyone that thinks "abusive play-style" is a thing just doesn't get it. As apposed to what, a nice, kindhearted play-style that gives your opponent plenty of time to think and beat you? We must all hate Boxer (bw boxer), MC and Nestea for their "abusive play-styles" then, and oh god what about Savior and Bisu?
The fact is that if cannons were buffed or something and cannon rushing had a 80% win-rate nearly every single pro would cannon rush. We are actually really blessed that SC2 is so balanced (remember 150 mineral cost spawning pools in bw? or smart reavers?).
I don't mean bronze literally I mean as a way of thinking.
And yes i am a Destiny fan-boy I admit, but I am also a Rain fan-boy and 99% of players' fan-boy because I have good will towards all of them.
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On July 28 2011 09:19 akalarry wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 09:06 Bagi wrote:On July 28 2011 08:58 akalarry wrote:On July 28 2011 08:56 Bagi wrote:On July 28 2011 08:52 akalarry wrote:
watching this game is like watching colossus/stalker/sentry vs roach/hydra
pros should know how to adapt and learn. it's not rocket science or anything. does he REALLY think vikings can counter infestor/brood lord and can get ghosts 25 min into the game. You've been talking alot about these ghosts, how about sharing some replays/VODs where ghosts dominate? Whenever I see terrans get ghosts, they end up largely ineffective or not worth the cost. Might as well spam vikings/marines at their army and hope it breaks instead. Some terran pros I've heard say ghosts aren't really that effective of an counter, since they get easily sniped by fungals and BL fire. Also tbh I would be interested in learning ghost use. Currently I can't pull it off at all. even if terran gets ghosts, i still think zerg is way stronger. but how can you NOT get ghosts in that situation?????????? that's my point. not that ghosts would be op against that composition just think about it. Because ghosts are actually a big investment, and are also units that are very fragile. One mistake and it's a ton of minerals/gas down the drain that could've been more vikings and marines instead. Ghosts just haven't proven to be worth it when you can get equally good or better results by making more vikings and spreading them out. If your marines/vikings get caught by fungal, its less of an issue since they are pretty cheap and you have the tech for them anyway. Ghosts are just an alternative "counter" that sometimes pays off but usually doesn't. If you're gonna admit ghosts aren't the key to countering that unit comp, then you really shouldn't be rambling here about them either, at least not in that tone. rofl i cant believe you actually wrote this. you really think marine/tank/viking will beat broodlord/infestor? (let alone 100 zerglings) ghosts haven't been proven? find me ONE game where terran wins with just marine/tank/viking against this build where the zerg didn't play sloppy. did you watch the games? rain could've easily emped every single clumped up infestor with cloak. nevermind i think you're trolling
Yet funnily enough you couldn't point me a single game where ghosts were effective. Speaks volumes of how much you actually know.
It's a common terran complaint that you have to do serious damage in the early/midgame to be able to deal with zerg in the lategame. Does that constitute as sloppy play from the zerg? Maybe, but terran simply cannot compete in equal situations. For example, I just watched Empire.Kas beat Catz in a BO5 showmatch last week, where many games included BL/infestor. He didn't build a single ghost, but instead outmaneuvered his opponent from the start, then overran him with marine/viking. Guess he's just another terran noob who doesn't know how to use ghosts, hmm?
You really should consider cutting down on the rofl's and trolling accusations though, makes you look like a little brat.
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On July 28 2011 09:14 Skydancer wrote:
Actually if Terran stop to refuse to use Ghost or Raven and learn to use them they will be the perfect counter to that build. 2 good emp while cloacked will shut down all the infestor capacity. Without that Broodloard and Ling will be stomped by Viking, Tank, Rine.
But if T still say only : Oh no Ghost they're not cost efficiant.... (and they are) infestor OP, they will lose everytime. ;-) But hey they're Terran they want to use MAX 3 unit in every MU.
I'm sorry but 2 emps will never shut down a mass infestor strat in the slightest ever since the emp nerf
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On July 28 2011 08:52 SuperPhresh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 08:50 On_Slaught wrote:
Am I seeing things or did Destiny not have any detection AGAIN? A single stealthed ghost should have countered that army. Destiny usually doesn't get detection. He seems to prefer using FG on stealth units instead. o_o
Thats because ghosts can easily snipe overseers.
FG is better.
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EPT
