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On June 24 2011 08:01 1Eris1 wrote:
Really questionable decisions by Slayer's coaches. DRG just beat one of the top 5 terran in the world in a bo5 and then lost to a mediocre (compared to code S players) protoss in the GSL qualifiers, but slayers decides to throw terran players at him instead of protoss players. Idk, MMA obviously could beat him, but I think a protoss would have been a much better decision then ganzi
except ganzi most definitely should have won that game
they have like 2 protoss and both are way, way worse than ganzi
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Is it worth the 25$ price tag? I said I woun't pay that much but ... no NASL so I have nothing to watch.
Thanks
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On June 24 2011 08:01 1Eris1 wrote:
Really questionable decisions by Slayer's coaches. DRG just beat one of the top 5 terran in the world in a bo5 and then lost to a mediocre (compared to code S players) protoss in the GSL qualifiers, but slayers decides to throw terran players at him instead of protoss players. Idk, MMA obviously could beat him, but I think a protoss would have been a much better decision then ganzi
Hero isn't bad. He is much better than the protoss players of slayers, except for Alicia but he was out already. See could have sent out Min but DonRaeGu stated that his ZvZ is as good as his ZvT, so their decisions were the right ones. Maybe they shouldn't have sent Alicia out first, but that's it.
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I will be honest and say that I personally think MMA is overrated.
Go watch his MLG replays and watch him get supply blocked again and again. His mechanics are weak and though his apm is high, most of it is probably spam. His "drop" play is a hindrance. Let me explain why:
1. Drops are used to be cost in effective in the sense that you disrupt economy or pick off weak points that you can't access otherwise. When you try to do this, you must try to pinpoint weak points. MMA skips this step and just drops at locations that are not only predictable, but aren't the zerg's weakpoints. In addition, even when mutas are out and the zerg has complete map control, he still drops. MMA is banking on the opponent to make mistakes, in which is not dependant on MMA's skills, but rather his opponent's skills to react.
2. His style usually gets him a fast 3rd. Dropping leaves him open to aggression. Watch July vs him on metropolis where july abuses a strong timing where MMA is extremely weak. Though July lost that game, MMA was behind after the aggression.
So his strategies rely on his opponent to "not know" what he is doing in addition to the opponent making mistakes. His play is hardly what you call solid.
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On June 24 2011 08:01 1Eris1 wrote:
Really questionable decisions by Slayer's coaches. DRG just beat one of the top 5 terran in the world in a bo5 and then lost to a mediocre (compared to code S players) protoss in the GSL qualifiers, but slayers decides to throw terran players at him instead of protoss players. Idk, MMA obviously could beat him, but I think a protoss would have been a much better decision then ganzi
Problem is, they brought Alicia as the vanguard. Frozen would have probably wilted to the pressure if he took over Ganzi's place, and Ganzi was doing a way better job than both MMA and BoxeR, keeping DRG trapped in two bases. Ganzi would have won the match for SlayerS if he didn't slip up on the tank and marine positions during that critical moment when DRG rolled in his zerglings, roaches and banelings, and he knows it, which is why he was so upset when the match ended.
MMA might have been able to win if he took down the spire with drops as soon as he noticed DRG was opting for mutalisks (he tried with a multi-drop counter-attack while DRG was flying his mutalisks all over the place, but obviously it was too late as there were too many mutalisks out to begin with).
Eitherway it was a very close match, much like last season's finals, but with DRG pulling the win at the ace match instead of the otherway around. Props to DRG for the reverse-allkill, but I still want SlayerS to win this.
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Yeah I was sort of surprised Alicia wasn't saved as a sniper for DRG since ZvP is his weaker match up.
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On June 24 2011 08:04 PET wrote:
Is it worth the 25$ price tag? I said I woun't pay that much but ... no NASL so I have nothing to watch.
Thanks
Team leagues are always amazing and this one looks pretty damn good so far. If you don't want to pay the 25$ for the team league, the regular league is starting up soon for 10$. I'd recommend either one considering GOM does starcraft 2 better than anybody.
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On June 24 2011 08:14 WindCalibur wrote:
I will be honest and say that I personally think MMA is overrated.
Go watch his MLG replays and watch him get supply blocked again and again. His mechanics are weak and though his apm is high, most of it is probably spam. His "drop" play is a hindrance. Let me explain why:
1. Drops are used to be cost in effective in the sense that you disrupt economy or pick off weak points that you can't access otherwise. When you try to do this, you must try to pinpoint weak points. MMA skips this step and just drops at locations that are not only predictable, but aren't the zerg's weakpoints. In addition, even when mutas are out and the zerg has complete map control, he still drops. MMA is banking on the opponent to make mistakes, in which is not dependant on MMA's skills, but rather his opponent's skills to react.
2. His style usually gets him a fast 3rd. Dropping leaves him open to aggression. Watch July vs him on metropolis where july abuses a strong timing where MMA is extremely weak. Though July lost that game, MMA was behind after the aggression.
So his strategies rely on his opponent to "not know" what he is doing in addition to the opponent making mistakes. His play is hardly what you call solid.
His high apm comes from constantly cycling of production buildings. His late game macro (once >3 bases, not adding any more supply depots and production buildings) is close to perfect. I remember seeing his replay against july. He constantly switches to raxes to produce more marines while controlling 2 drops and moving his main army at the same time. While he was cleaning up july's remaining army at the final moments, he was still adding more rines in his raxes while his rines are being microed back to kite banelings -_-
His drops do not bank on the opponent making mistakes. He is definitely the best terran out there who utilise drops. You do not see him dropping just for the sake of forcing his oppoenent into a game of multi-tasking. Everytime he does multi-pronged drops, he will force zerg's army to split up, allowing his main army to move to clean up creep tumours and push up the tank line in a very safe manner. He will continue to drop til his main army manages to set up a semi-contain, forcing zerg to attack it in a very non-cost effective way. Not to mention, with his great multi-tasking, all his marines drops will be focus firing on banelings and mutas, to keep the muta count low. Why do you think so many zergs have fallen to him when they already knew his preferred tactics in mid-late game. The only ways zerg can stop him is to first have a large enough economic advantage, either start being aggressive with its higher food count and pin MMA back into his base preventing his forces from spreading thin, or invest in static defences that do not require food thus allowing zerg army to concentrate its forces to slow down advance of terran's army.
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No0o0o. I banked too much on Slayers and MMA.
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This was definitely worth staying up for an extra 7 hours to watch. GGs, fairly even as far as the final score goes.
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On June 24 2011 08:04 PET wrote:
Is it worth the 25$ price tag? I said I woun't pay that much but ... no NASL so I have nothing to watch.
Thanks
The first day was worth it alone. This format with the 7 different matchups every time is so much more exciting than a Bo3 or 5 with the same players. Absolutely worth it.
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On June 24 2011 08:04 PET wrote:
Is it worth the 25$ price tag? I said I woun't pay that much but ... no NASL so I have nothing to watch.
Thanks
Gom does starcraft 2 better than anyone else so yes 25$ is worth it, the GSTL lasts 2 and a half months,for 25$ that is worth it and fair.
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It's probably around 100 hours of content for $25. Probably worth it, although I still feel it should have been $19.99.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
What races GuineaPig get in his games?
I didn't watch this, but it seemed obvious that Alicia should of been the DRG sniper. Opening Protoss does seem to be a strong choice, but DRG is so good versus Terran and Slayers only has 1 good Protoss so Alicia really should have been played for the snipe. Failing that, they should have thrown Min in there and hoped for one of those famed "Coin Flip" losses that Zerg's have been harping on about. First major tactical error from Cella I've seen since the GSTL has been running.
On the plus side, I properly love these tactical discussions about this format. It's really interesting, and has a lot of depth as to being clever. I think it is perfectly possible to win a team league match with a less than superior team through the right strategy.
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On June 24 2011 09:01 babysimba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 08:14 WindCalibur wrote:
I will be honest and say that I personally think MMA is overrated.
Go watch his MLG replays and watch him get supply blocked again and again. His mechanics are weak and though his apm is high, most of it is probably spam. His "drop" play is a hindrance. Let me explain why:
1. Drops are used to be cost in effective in the sense that you disrupt economy or pick off weak points that you can't access otherwise. When you try to do this, you must try to pinpoint weak points. MMA skips this step and just drops at locations that are not only predictable, but aren't the zerg's weakpoints. In addition, even when mutas are out and the zerg has complete map control, he still drops. MMA is banking on the opponent to make mistakes, in which is not dependant on MMA's skills, but rather his opponent's skills to react.
2. His style usually gets him a fast 3rd. Dropping leaves him open to aggression. Watch July vs him on metropolis where july abuses a strong timing where MMA is extremely weak. Though July lost that game, MMA was behind after the aggression.
So his strategies rely on his opponent to "not know" what he is doing in addition to the opponent making mistakes. His play is hardly what you call solid. His high apm comes from constantly cycling of production buildings. His late game macro (once >3 bases, not adding any more supply depots and production buildings) is close to perfect. I remember seeing his replay against july. He constantly switches to raxes to produce more marines while controlling 2 drops and moving his main army at the same time. While he was cleaning up july's remaining army at the final moments, he was still adding more rines in his raxes while his rines are being microed back to kite banelings -_- His drops do not bank on the opponent making mistakes. He is definitely the best terran out there who utilise drops. You do not see him dropping just for the sake of forcing his oppoenent into a game of multi-tasking. Everytime he does multi-pronged drops, he will force zerg's army to split up, allowing his main army to move to clean up creep tumours and push up the tank line in a very safe manner. He will continue to drop til his main army manages to set up a semi-contain, forcing zerg to attack it in a very non-cost effective way. Not to mention, with his great multi-tasking, all his marines drops will be focus firing on banelings and mutas, to keep the muta count low. Why do you think so many zergs have fallen to him when they already knew his preferred tactics in mid-late game. The only ways zerg can stop him is to first have a large enough economic advantage, either start being aggressive with its higher food count and pin MMA back into his base preventing his forces from spreading thin, or invest in static defences that do not require food thus allowing zerg army to concentrate its forces to slow down advance of terran's army.
Overlord spread and mutas counter drops. You are banking on the fact that the zerg does not see the drop or does not split his forces correctly. His macro being perfect? Watch some sc1 for perfect macro. No one in sc2 has remotely close to perfect macro. I hardly see someone like bomber drop down supplies but people like MMA does. So if MMA has perfect macro, someone like bomber, who has better macro, must be god? Doesn't make sense to me.
Drop play is good, sure, but what if the zerg pinpoints your drops with good map awareness and responds perfectly? Do you still think his drops will be nearly as effective? People were underestimating Polt and saying that Polt will get 4-0ed thinking that MMA's play is flawless. But guess what, Polt was the one who analyzed MMA well and completely steamrolled MMA. Give some zerg time to study MMA's style for a while and I can almost assure you that his drop play won't be nearly as effective or great as many people think.
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I'm a bit confused about FXO's situation. Will Sheth be competing? I noticed FXO left for SK shortly before Sheth did his charity stream run.
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DRG is just a beast - his macro + micro just seems so good as well as his decision making.
Its a pity he didn't make code a (& code S). I would love to see more of his games. His baneling landlines are just as good as Nesteas (not just his games last night but vs scforu in the special tournament).
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On June 24 2011 10:00 zor.au wrote:
DRG is just a beast - his macro + micro just seems so good as well as his decision making.
Its a pity he didn't make code a (& code S). I would love to see more of his games. His baneling landlines are just as good as Nesteas (not just his games last night but vs scforu in the special tournament).
How did he get knocked out from the Code A run? Cheesed by toss or is his ZvP weak?
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On June 24 2011 10:04 Sixes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 10:00 zor.au wrote:
DRG is just a beast - his macro + micro just seems so good as well as his decision making.
Its a pity he didn't make code a (& code S). I would love to see more of his games. His baneling landlines are just as good as Nesteas (not just his games last night but vs scforu in the special tournament).
How did he get knocked out from the Code A run? Cheesed by toss or is his ZvP weak?
knocked out by oGsHero who is code a++ material.
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ST vs FXO... oh 4:0 I call it.
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EPT
