Honestly, Idra could have straight up won Game 2 with his roach/ling attack. He could've easily sniped the hatch but for some stupid reason attacked the spines, lost some roaches and gave Zenio time to get enough units.
It was his game to win, but he threw it away because the only thing he knows how to do right is macro.
On June 16 2011 12:22 StorkHwaiting wrote: Look, as a master zerg player I think it's really really easy to see how Idra lost.
First game, big map, so ofc Idra goes 15h because he's a greedy macro player. Zenio guesses correctly and simply does a 9p and rapes it. 15h > 14e14p > 9p > 15h is the basic ZvZ dynamic.
Second game, Idra just got 9p so he's scared to go 15h again, so ofc he goes 14e14p which is middle of the road build. Zenio does the same because he's confident he's a better player than Idra. You see how that works? He doesn't go greedy econ build because he thinks he's better. He goes the SAME middle of the road.
Then, Idra diverges into 21/22h roach/ling timing attack. Zenio, with his earlier banes, intelligently identifies what Idra is going for and drops 2 spines and uses banes/lings to ward Idra off long enough to get enough larvae to wipe out the timing attack. Idra was already WAY behind after doing this timing attack! He caught up in drones sure, but Zenio had the same drone count for 2 minutes longer AND got 2 spines out of it AND got baneling nest along with roach tech and got +1 range attack. Quite simply, Idra's timing attack failed.
Then, when things diverged AGAIN, Zenio stayed light on roaches, opting to use more lings and a few banes to conserve gas, and was on 3 gas long before Idra was. So he got way ahead in gas both because less roaches and more gas mining. THEN he dropped a spire and tech switched to muta.
This was not luck. This was not a coinflip. This was not an unavoidable loss. Idra could have easily sent an overseer to scout. Idra easily could have built some speedlings to make a more aggressive attempt to scout Zenio's army composition rather than just relying on roach pokes to see the tip of Zenio's units. Idra had all day to figure out what was going on.
Instead, Idra threw up a third and tried to drone it up and went for the absolutely typical roach/infestor composition.
So basically, Game 2 Zenio had brilliant brilliant counter builds to Idra's 21h roach/ling timing attack, then a brilliant timing attack of his own to hit Idra in the TINY TINY window that a straight up roach mass 3 base infestor build is vulnerable to.
And Idra repeatedly telegraphed what HE had by sending ALL his roaches in his scouting pokes. Thereby giving his opponent more info than he gained with HIS scouting attempts. The epitome of stupid.
i agree w/ most of what you said about g2. idra was the aggressor with roach/ling. iirc he went for zenio's nat hatch, and then he lost his lings to zenio's blings, which snowballed into idra losing all of his roaches. zenio was actually droning up a bit before idra's attack, too.
Yeah, Zenio had like 12-14 more drones than Idra when Idra was massing roaches. Idra wasn't even mining out of his nat when he was prepping for his timing bust. Zenio had a superior build, straight up. His 1 base bane into later expo with mass ling/bane spine defense and NO roach is THE counter to the current popular roach/ling timing attack.
It works out beautifully because even after that, Idra is FORCED into a pure roach army. Why? Because he can't build lings for fear of banes. So he is forced to keep investing gas into army. Whereas Zenio can build 2/3rds the roaches and just augment the rest with lings, seeing as Idra will not make lings for fear of banes.
Knowing this, Zenio gets away with saving gas, and drops that third extractor, yet still manages to be safe due to his previous spines and his eco advantage. At any point, Zenio can choose to transition into 3 base infestor just like Idra, except with +4 infestors due to his gas advantage, or go two base muta timing attack like he did. All options are open to him. It's just a better build. He read Idra like a book.
On June 16 2011 12:09 jj33 wrote: hahahaha moralez,
you are such a moron
zenio outplayed idra so bad in game 2. and yea he's so lucky to beat idra like everytime, maybe zenio should play the lottery.
like i said, I bet you're in bronze. you don't even know what a "build order" win is. newbs like you probably never watched bw and have 0 understanding of rts in general.
Im pretty sure mods will be watching this type of childish comments.
And no Im top 8 masters, maybe you're the one in bronze
lol moralez sorry if we offended you but just because we are bringing up legit arguments against you doesn't mean they are childish :D
I mean come on, if ZvZ is such a coin flip then how come IdrA is 0-6 to Zenio? if ZvZ is a coin flip then why isn't Nestea's GSL ZvZ win-rate 50%? Think before you talk.
So you're using Nestea ( best zerg in the world) to compensate all the others? lol dude just stop trying.
And again, you proove to be a hater im pretty sure calling someone ' moron ' in a middle of a discussion is being childish. Maybe you're childish aswell and dont comprehend this kind of things
so we're not able to argue using the highest level of examples to prove that ZvZ isn't a coinflip when nestea is playing against the other best players in korea?
not even sure what to say at this point
Read what i said about nestea, hes pretty good but hes lost vs other zerg because of coin flips .
Coinflip implies that what Dimaga did was purely luck and not based off what he saw. And you're discrediting Dimaga's win over NesTea.
NesTea was goin Hatch first all the time and Dimaga punished him for it.
And Zenio's 6-0 against Idra is not luck or "coinflip" no matter how much you say it.
Yes and it was purely luck in that game, im not discrediting dimagas win, thats just pure ZvZ logic that you simply dont know.
How was it purely luck? He said in an interview that when he watched many replays Nestea ALWAYS went 15 hatch all the time against zerg. It WAS a build order win, but Dimaga was nearly positive that Nestea would go 15 hatch, so why not punish it?
Please explain how that is luck?
You can't assume in a tournament peoples build just because you watch some replays and in zvz theres so many openings its hard to predict.
Dimaga flipped the coin did an all in nestea did a risky build, dimaga won because of the BO, simple.
bro, that is just one game. how about you sit down and explain to me why Zenio went 6-0 against IdrA? You seem to think that IdrA is the better player and lost to Zenio because of ZvZ's volatility. And yet...Zenio rocked IdrA in every game they played. Tell me why you think that ZvZ is just a *quote* "coin-flip" like you said and try to explain how then it was possible for Zenio to go 6-0 against IdrA. ???
I can't speak for anyone else, but after tonight's games I'm more interested to see if dde can keep improving in season 2 than how idra does in season 2.
It seems like he needs to work on his TvP (have to work on his Ghost play), but his TvZ looks really good, and his TvT had some really nice moments as well.
On June 16 2011 12:33 Harrow wrote: The real coin flip is whether the next post will say...
Heads: Idra is TERRIBLE and is a loser basement dwelling rager with no skill or results to his name, he is so ridiculously overhyped when in reality he's basically a gold-level scrub.
or
Tails: Idra is easily the BEST player outside of Korea (and much better than most of the koreans!) who just wants to play the game the way God intended, his BM is just PR genius and/or a keen understanding of the terrible balance in SC2.
If the coin lands on its side, someone might say that he's a pretty damn good, though not perfect, player who is held back by some issues with the way he approaches the game.
Im pretty sure mods will be watching this type of childish comments.
And no Im top 8 masters, maybe you're the one in bronze
lol moralez sorry if we offended you but just because we are bringing up legit arguments against you doesn't mean they are childish :D
I mean come on, if ZvZ is such a coin flip then how come IdrA is 0-6 to Zenio? if ZvZ is a coin flip then why isn't Nestea's GSL ZvZ win-rate 50%? Think before you talk.
So you're using Nestea ( best zerg in the world) to compensate all the others? lol dude just stop trying.
And again, you proove to be a hater im pretty sure calling someone ' moron ' in a middle of a discussion is being childish. Maybe you're childish aswell and dont comprehend this kind of things
so we're not able to argue using the highest level of examples to prove that ZvZ isn't a coinflip when nestea is playing against the other best players in korea?
not even sure what to say at this point
Read what i said about nestea, hes pretty good but hes lost vs other zerg because of coin flips .
Coinflip implies that what Dimaga did was purely luck and not based off what he saw. And you're discrediting Dimaga's win over NesTea.
NesTea was goin Hatch first all the time and Dimaga punished him for it.
And Zenio's 6-0 against Idra is not luck or "coinflip" no matter how much you say it.
Yes and it was purely luck in that game, im not discrediting dimagas win, thats just pure ZvZ logic that you simply dont know.
How was it purely luck? He said in an interview that when he watched many replays Nestea ALWAYS went 15 hatch all the time against zerg. It WAS a build order win, but Dimaga was nearly positive that Nestea would go 15 hatch, so why not punish it?
Please explain how that is luck?
You can't assume in a tournament peoples build just because you watch some replays and in zvz theres so many openings its hard to predict.
Dimaga flipped the coin did an all in nestea did a risky build, dimaga won because of the BO, simple.
bro, that is just one game. how about you sit down and explain to me why Zenio went 6-0 against IdrA? You seem to think that IdrA is the better player and lost to Zenio because of ZvZ's volatility. And yet...Zenio rocked IdrA in every game they played. Tell me why you think that ZvZ is just a *quote* "coin-flip" like you said and try to explain how then it was possible for Zenio to go 6-0 against IdrA. ???
Zenio is clearly better than Idra at zvz, but zvz is a coin flip and many zerg pro players will tell the same.
On June 16 2011 12:28 dave333 wrote: Unfortunately, Idra didn't scout enough. Idra is goddamn good when it comes to standard play. Few players can beat him at that. So the burden is on HIM to scout meticulously against players who deviate from standard play in an attempt to beat him. The other player predicts idras style easily; he can then try to counter it by going with something risky and nonstandard. It is up to Idra to realize to figure out how to be safe against that, OR to take a risk himself.
First game was BO loss, pretty simple. If I were idra though, I probably wouldn't go hatch first, especially without a 9 drone scout. He knows people like to cheese/try to tilt him, he has to play especially safe IMO.
Then again, Zenio is a step above guys like mana, where Idra can play safe and then still catch up and win. Equally matched players in ZvZ does have some build order stuff that needs to be dealt with unfortunately.
There's no such thing as "standard" play. The metagame is changing all the time. Roach/ling timing attack like Idra did is popular right now, but it's by no means "standard" play. It's just what's trendy and predictable right now. A few months ago, 1 base bane/sling wars were "standard" play. It's just rubbish to try to claim Idra is some fantastic gosu "standard" player. He's not. He's predictable. That doesn't make him great.
That's always been his problem as a player. He spends all his time and effort on practicing his execution of a few builds and not enough time on exploring other ones. It's a weakness.
Lexicon aside, Idra is good at these type of common/popular builds and styles. Cause he practices them. However in a tournament setting, he needs to know that what is predictable is....predictable and needs meticulous scouting to work it. Roach infestor is popular right now, it is what Idra is good at cause he practices it a lot, and it was what he was going for. But these popular styles will be suspect to deviations, and if Idra wants to play to his strengths, he has to actively seek out and find out if his opponent is trying to surprise him. He didn't and then lost.
Zenio's build was better, but those mutas didn't have to be gg because well, stockpiling 1300 gas waiting for spire leaves a pretty big window.
On June 16 2011 12:28 dave333 wrote: Unfortunately, Idra didn't scout enough. Idra is goddamn good when it comes to standard play. Few players can beat him at that. So the burden is on HIM to scout meticulously against players who deviate from standard play in an attempt to beat him. The other player predicts idras style easily; he can then try to counter it by going with something risky and nonstandard. It is up to Idra to realize to figure out how to be safe against that, OR to take a risk himself.
First game was BO loss, pretty simple. If I were idra though, I probably wouldn't go hatch first, especially without a 9 drone scout. He knows people like to cheese/try to tilt him, he has to play especially safe IMO.
Then again, Zenio is a step above guys like mana, where Idra can play safe and then still catch up and win. Equally matched players in ZvZ does have some build order stuff that needs to be dealt with unfortunately.
There's no such thing as "standard" play. The metagame is changing all the time. Roach/ling timing attack like Idra did is popular right now, but it's by no means "standard" play. It's just what's trendy and predictable right now. A few months ago, 1 base bane/sling wars were "standard" play. It's just rubbish to try to claim Idra is some fantastic gosu "standard" player. He's not. He's predictable. That doesn't make him great.
That's always been his problem as a player. He spends all his time and effort on practicing his execution of a few builds and not enough time on exploring other ones. It's a weakness.
Lexicon aside, Idra is good at these type of common/popular builds and styles. Cause he practices them. However in a tournament setting, he needs to know that what is predictable is....predictable and needs meticulous scouting to work it. Roach infestor is popular right now, it is what Idra is good at cause he practices it a lot, and it was what he was going for. But these popular styles will be suspect to deviations, and if Idra wants to play to his strengths, he has to actively seek out and find out if his opponent is trying to surprise him. He didn't and then lost.
...AKA Idra is not a great player. A great player is good at a lot of builds, not just the most common ones. You're paraphrasing me and not adding anything new -__-. We all know Idra has good mechanics and control. He has bad preparation, bad star sense, and bad mental fortitude.
On June 16 2011 12:22 StorkHwaiting wrote: Look, as a master zerg player I think it's really really easy to see how Idra lost.
First game, big map, so ofc Idra goes 15h because he's a greedy macro player. Zenio guesses correctly and simply does a 9p and rapes it. 15h > 14e14p > 9p > 15h is the basic ZvZ dynamic.
Second game, Idra just got 9p so he's scared to go 15h again, so ofc he goes 14e14p which is middle of the road build. Zenio does the same because he's confident he's a better player than Idra. You see how that works? He doesn't go greedy econ build because he thinks he's better. He goes the SAME middle of the road.
Then, Idra diverges into 21/22h roach/ling timing attack. Zenio, with his earlier banes, intelligently identifies what Idra is going for and drops 2 spines and uses banes/lings to ward Idra off long enough to get enough larvae to wipe out the timing attack. Idra was already WAY behind after doing this timing attack! He caught up in drones sure, but Zenio had the same drone count for 2 minutes longer AND got 2 spines out of it AND got baneling nest along with roach tech and got +1 range attack. Quite simply, Idra's timing attack failed.
Then, when things diverged AGAIN, Zenio stayed light on roaches, opting to use more lings and a few banes to conserve gas, and was on 3 gas long before Idra was. So he got way ahead in gas both because less roaches and more gas mining. THEN he dropped a spire and tech switched to muta.
This was not luck. This was not a coinflip. This was not an unavoidable loss. Idra could have easily sent an overseer to scout. Idra easily could have built some speedlings to make a more aggressive attempt to scout Zenio's army composition rather than just relying on roach pokes to see the tip of Zenio's units. Idra had all day to figure out what was going on.
Instead, Idra threw up a third and tried to drone it up and went for the absolutely typical roach/infestor composition.
So basically, Game 2 Zenio had brilliant brilliant counter builds to Idra's 21h roach/ling timing attack, then a brilliant timing attack of his own to hit Idra in the TINY TINY window that a straight up roach mass 3 base infestor build is vulnerable to.
And Idra repeatedly telegraphed what HE had by sending ALL his roaches in his scouting pokes. Thereby giving his opponent more info than he gained with HIS scouting attempts. The epitome of stupid.
Quoting again just so everyone can see this post. Great summary, StorkHwaiting.
lol moralez sorry if we offended you but just because we are bringing up legit arguments against you doesn't mean they are childish :D
I mean come on, if ZvZ is such a coin flip then how come IdrA is 0-6 to Zenio? if ZvZ is a coin flip then why isn't Nestea's GSL ZvZ win-rate 50%? Think before you talk.
So you're using Nestea ( best zerg in the world) to compensate all the others? lol dude just stop trying.
And again, you proove to be a hater im pretty sure calling someone ' moron ' in a middle of a discussion is being childish. Maybe you're childish aswell and dont comprehend this kind of things
so we're not able to argue using the highest level of examples to prove that ZvZ isn't a coinflip when nestea is playing against the other best players in korea?
not even sure what to say at this point
Read what i said about nestea, hes pretty good but hes lost vs other zerg because of coin flips .
Coinflip implies that what Dimaga did was purely luck and not based off what he saw. And you're discrediting Dimaga's win over NesTea.
NesTea was goin Hatch first all the time and Dimaga punished him for it.
And Zenio's 6-0 against Idra is not luck or "coinflip" no matter how much you say it.
Yes and it was purely luck in that game, im not discrediting dimagas win, thats just pure ZvZ logic that you simply dont know.
How was it purely luck? He said in an interview that when he watched many replays Nestea ALWAYS went 15 hatch all the time against zerg. It WAS a build order win, but Dimaga was nearly positive that Nestea would go 15 hatch, so why not punish it?
Please explain how that is luck?
You can't assume in a tournament peoples build just because you watch some replays and in zvz theres so many openings its hard to predict.
Dimaga flipped the coin did an all in nestea did a risky build, dimaga won because of the BO, simple.
bro, that is just one game. how about you sit down and explain to me why Zenio went 6-0 against IdrA? You seem to think that IdrA is the better player and lost to Zenio because of ZvZ's volatility. And yet...Zenio rocked IdrA in every game they played. Tell me why you think that ZvZ is just a *quote* "coin-flip" like you said and try to explain how then it was possible for Zenio to go 6-0 against IdrA. ???
Zenio is clearly better than Idra at zvz, but zvz is a coin flip and many zerg pro players will tell the same.
The only coin flip imo is in the first 10-15 supplys, after those decisions are made there is no more "coinflipping" than any other match up. Even during that first 10-15 supply, theres a high chance you can avoid losing to a blind counter by sending an early drone and/or getting a lucky scout with your overlord.
Take G1 for example, IdrA was FE against a 9/10pool in close positions, he still managed to hold it due to a) Good decision making with cancelling the hatch, and b) good micro
10pool vs FE is pretty much as blind counter or "coinflip" as you can get, and yet he defended it fine and didn't really fall behind and lose the game until later.
As others have said, the "coinflip" arguement is a cop out.
On June 16 2011 12:21 Jibba wrote: It saddens me that the 'gg talk' is still the driving conversation topic. :/ We've had this debate for probably a year now, since HDH made an overinflated issue out of it, and there's really nothing left to discuss.
The bigger story is just that in ZvZ, a match where IdrA is by all means awesome, he got completely worked by Zenio. That's what people should be talking about, Zenio's excellent play.
When Jaedong got his quick spire vs Stork in G2 on Katrina at the EVER 2007 finals, the discussion wasn't about it being a stupid all in or anything else. It was HOLY FUCK JAEDONG IS THE GODDAMN MAN THAT WAS AMAZING, and that's what this discussion should be imo.
I pretty much said this earlier, It's sad .
The SC2 crowd has a lot of chobos. SC1 crowd was winnowed down to mostly hardcore fans who appreciate the game and the skill involved in playing it. Nowadays, there's lots of casual tards running around TL who are more interested in building up cults of personality rather than actual analysis of the game. Likely because they're unable to analyze it.
I just think it's a shame. Because it's so extremely painful getting anything constructive out of a LR thread these days. These things used to be great, but now you have to make your way through 50 bad posts to find 3 good ones. I don't mind people not understanding the game, that is completely reasonable. But when you try and educate them on it and they just refuse to listen to you it gets annoying. I can completely understand people disagreeing with me or others, but when they can't put up a decent argument to why their opinion is right and mine is wrong. That's just stupid and fills up the entire thread with shit that just doesn't need to be there.
TL in the BW days was so serious about quality posting and quality control. It's a shame as we got bigger (which i know we did need to happen because i remember Kennigit and Victor mentioning it) standards have had to slip because of the sheer amount of new people.
I think the lack of english commentators and analysts had a huge effect on weeding out the ignorant and casual. Brood War games spoke for themselves. You got excited because of the specifics within the game. You had to have a moderate understanding of the game to enjoy it.
Though I love English casts, it seems to have the effect of turning off critical thinking skills in some viewers.
So you're using Nestea ( best zerg in the world) to compensate all the others? lol dude just stop trying.
And again, you proove to be a hater im pretty sure calling someone ' moron ' in a middle of a discussion is being childish. Maybe you're childish aswell and dont comprehend this kind of things
so we're not able to argue using the highest level of examples to prove that ZvZ isn't a coinflip when nestea is playing against the other best players in korea?
not even sure what to say at this point
Read what i said about nestea, hes pretty good but hes lost vs other zerg because of coin flips .
Coinflip implies that what Dimaga did was purely luck and not based off what he saw. And you're discrediting Dimaga's win over NesTea.
NesTea was goin Hatch first all the time and Dimaga punished him for it.
And Zenio's 6-0 against Idra is not luck or "coinflip" no matter how much you say it.
Yes and it was purely luck in that game, im not discrediting dimagas win, thats just pure ZvZ logic that you simply dont know.
How was it purely luck? He said in an interview that when he watched many replays Nestea ALWAYS went 15 hatch all the time against zerg. It WAS a build order win, but Dimaga was nearly positive that Nestea would go 15 hatch, so why not punish it?
Please explain how that is luck?
You can't assume in a tournament peoples build just because you watch some replays and in zvz theres so many openings its hard to predict.
Dimaga flipped the coin did an all in nestea did a risky build, dimaga won because of the BO, simple.
bro, that is just one game. how about you sit down and explain to me why Zenio went 6-0 against IdrA? You seem to think that IdrA is the better player and lost to Zenio because of ZvZ's volatility. And yet...Zenio rocked IdrA in every game they played. Tell me why you think that ZvZ is just a *quote* "coin-flip" like you said and try to explain how then it was possible for Zenio to go 6-0 against IdrA. ???
Zenio is clearly better than Idra at zvz, but zvz is a coin flip and many zerg pro players will tell the same.
The only coin flip imo is in the first 10-15 supplys, after those decisions are made there is no more "coinflipping" than any other match up. Even during that first 10-15 supply, theres a high chance you can avoid losing to a blind counter by sending an early drone and/or getting a lucky scout with your overlord.
Take G1 for example, IdrA was FE against a 9/10pool in close positions, he still managed to hold it due to a) Good decision making with cancelling the hatch, and b) good micro
10pool vs FE is pretty much as blind counter or "coinflip" as you can get, and yet he defended it fine and didn't really fall behind and lose the game until later.
As others have said, the "coinflip" arguement is a cop out.
Hm yes the early game is a coin flip not only the first 10-15 supply, the rest isnt.
I dont have anything against idra but im happy to see him losing to someone he bmed and spoke so poorly of. Zenios clearly a better playe atm, you cant go 0-6 vs someone and pin it on matchup volatility.
lol moralez sorry if we offended you but just because we are bringing up legit arguments against you doesn't mean they are childish :D
I mean come on, if ZvZ is such a coin flip then how come IdrA is 0-6 to Zenio? if ZvZ is a coin flip then why isn't Nestea's GSL ZvZ win-rate 50%? Think before you talk.
So you're using Nestea ( best zerg in the world) to compensate all the others? lol dude just stop trying.
And again, you proove to be a hater im pretty sure calling someone ' moron ' in a middle of a discussion is being childish. Maybe you're childish aswell and dont comprehend this kind of things
so we're not able to argue using the highest level of examples to prove that ZvZ isn't a coinflip when nestea is playing against the other best players in korea?
not even sure what to say at this point
Read what i said about nestea, hes pretty good but hes lost vs other zerg because of coin flips .
Coinflip implies that what Dimaga did was purely luck and not based off what he saw. And you're discrediting Dimaga's win over NesTea.
NesTea was goin Hatch first all the time and Dimaga punished him for it.
And Zenio's 6-0 against Idra is not luck or "coinflip" no matter how much you say it.
Yes and it was purely luck in that game, im not discrediting dimagas win, thats just pure ZvZ logic that you simply dont know.
How was it purely luck? He said in an interview that when he watched many replays Nestea ALWAYS went 15 hatch all the time against zerg. It WAS a build order win, but Dimaga was nearly positive that Nestea would go 15 hatch, so why not punish it?
Please explain how that is luck?
You can't assume in a tournament peoples build just because you watch some replays and in zvz theres so many openings its hard to predict.
Dimaga flipped the coin did an all in nestea did a risky build, dimaga won because of the BO, simple.
bro, that is just one game. how about you sit down and explain to me why Zenio went 6-0 against IdrA? You seem to think that IdrA is the better player and lost to Zenio because of ZvZ's volatility. And yet...Zenio rocked IdrA in every game they played. Tell me why you think that ZvZ is just a *quote* "coin-flip" like you said and try to explain how then it was possible for Zenio to go 6-0 against IdrA. ???
Zenio is clearly better than Idra at zvz, but zvz is a coin flip and many zerg pro players will tell the same.
Zenio is better and that is why he won. Thank you. That is all we wanted, none of that coin flip crap. Heck, even IdrA is good at ZvZ and he even stated during the MLG that he has an easier time against Z opponents because he is simply better than them. He saw ret, slush, and other Zs as easy targets. He wasn't scared because he knew it wasn't going to be a 50-50 split.
Lol at people saying Zenio is coinflippy. Did you even watch the games they played before, he straight 2-0'd IdrA in macro games, and in one he was extremely behind and still crushed IdrA. But I guess everything is a "build order loss", because IdrA is too awesome to lose any standard games.
On June 16 2011 12:49 nalgene wrote: What did dde and zenio do in game3 ?
dde hid a 2nd rax, bunker rushed, nearly killed hatch but didn't quite manage it, lost everything, tried to fly rax back to ramp to wall, too slow, speedlings in base, gg.
Don't try and read that out loud without taking a breath.
Zenio also did a great flank with his banelings to kill Idra's speedlings when he did Roach/Ling timing push. Without that he might have been overwhelmed. He simply outmicroed Idra, despite playing with lag.
And how can playing "standard" be anything good, in a strategy game? Zenio had the better strategy and tactics in both games.
EPT
.
