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am i reading this thread wrong or does avilo keep arguing duravi even though they are in basically perfect agreement haha.
I agree with both, I think.
NA/EU pros that are making a salary but no showing to events or not dedicating themselves like it's their real job are retarded. If I owned a team I wouldn't allow a lot of the behavior I see out of these players. It's like they have this huge sense of entitlement, really irks me.
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On June 25 2011 13:44 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. And that's a huge difference. Most pro-gamers or aspiring pros are NOT being paid a salary. Your sole obligation is earning you money. A foreigner practicing 12 hours a day does not guarantee a salary, let alone any money. You can do physics 12 hours a day, you will be paid. A player can practice 12 hours a day and make ZERO. That's the difference that in all your physics glory you seem to not be connecting here... But the prior comments said that Idra and Tyler and maybe some others are being paid a salary? In that case, I concede that I improperly extrapolated from those comments.
Edit: also you don't have to reply three times to the same comment when your first reply contained precisely the data necessary to demonstrate the error I was making :/
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On June 25 2011 13:39 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. Also, please enlighten us on these mystical progamers that are getting mega salaries to be able to quit their day jobs. 99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else. Whatever that is, it takes away time from sheer practice, which is what the koreans that live and train in pro-houses are doing. I think you're severely overestimating just how many people actually are in a situation, especially foreigners, where they are free from all obligations except practicing SC2.
Then 99% of people aren't pro gamers? What more is there to say? I doubt those people who have to live off another full-time job would be good enough to get on a pro korean team and join the house to begin with.
Not to mention koreans also have to deal with the mandatory 2 year military service which can literally break careers.
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The fact that so many Koreans fare well in foreign tournaments is a great sign that the game actually rewards hard work and practice. Certain pros in the west *cough*IdrA*cough* has always talked about the lack of consistency and the "coin flip" nature of SC2, I think this clearly disproves it. Can't wait for a day when we have like literally thousands of super solid players and a certain few are forced to take the game to the next level in order to win.
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99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else.
Then they aren't top level pro-gamers and the 1% will deservedly pass them by.
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On June 25 2011 14:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:39 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. Also, please enlighten us on these mystical progamers that are getting mega salaries to be able to quit their day jobs. 99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else. Whatever that is, it takes away time from sheer practice, which is what the koreans that live and train in pro-houses are doing. I think you're severely overestimating just how many people actually are in a situation, especially foreigners, where they are free from all obligations except practicing SC2. Then 99% of people aren't pro gamers? What more is there to say? I doubt those people who have to live off another full-time job would be good enough to get on a pro korean team and join the house to begin with. Not to mention koreans also have to deal with the mandatory 2 year military service which can literally break careers.
I can't help but think this is very naive. There are plenty of pros that have had trouble performing in the past because of financial issues and because their time was split between playing and work, just because they have to work to sustain themselves doesn't mean they're bad.
Sheth is a good example of someone who had some issues with sustaining himself financially before FXO, All of ROOT Gaming is another example, they had to split their time because despite being the best team in North America, they weren't making money and they weren't getting sponsorships.
It's very naive to think that all you have to do is be good and you'll have the money to focus on Starcraft. You can't get good without practicing, and you can't get practice when you have other things to worry about.
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On June 25 2011 14:26 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 14:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 13:39 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. Also, please enlighten us on these mystical progamers that are getting mega salaries to be able to quit their day jobs. 99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else. Whatever that is, it takes away time from sheer practice, which is what the koreans that live and train in pro-houses are doing. I think you're severely overestimating just how many people actually are in a situation, especially foreigners, where they are free from all obligations except practicing SC2. Then 99% of people aren't pro gamers? What more is there to say? I doubt those people who have to live off another full-time job would be good enough to get on a pro korean team and join the house to begin with. Not to mention koreans also have to deal with the mandatory 2 year military service which can literally break careers. I can't help but think this is very naive. There are plenty of pros that have had trouble performing in the past because of financial issues and because their time was split between playing and work, just because they have to work to sustain themselves doesn't mean they're bad. Sheth is a good example of someone who had some issues with sustaining himself financially before FXO, All of ROOT Gaming is another example, they had to split their time because despite being the best team in North America, they weren't making money and they weren't getting sponsorships. It's very naive to think that all you have to do is be good and you'll have the money to focus on Starcraft. You can't get good without practicing, and you can't get practice when you have other things to worry about.
And how is this different from the koreans? Nothing I said was wrong. You have to be able to sustain yourself until you actually become a pro gamer, and if you can't sustain yourself while playing sc2 then you're not a pro yet.
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It's very naive to think that all you have to do is be good and you'll have the money to focus on Starcraft.
well, those guys you listed (Sheth, ROOT guys...) DID eventually end up on teams than can support focusing on SC2 full-time; especially FXO in Korea. It just takes time and patience, eventually the cream does rise to the top.  Excuse my lame cliche.
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On June 25 2011 14:33 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 14:26 Mordiford wrote:On June 25 2011 14:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 13:39 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. Also, please enlighten us on these mystical progamers that are getting mega salaries to be able to quit their day jobs. 99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else. Whatever that is, it takes away time from sheer practice, which is what the koreans that live and train in pro-houses are doing. I think you're severely overestimating just how many people actually are in a situation, especially foreigners, where they are free from all obligations except practicing SC2. Then 99% of people aren't pro gamers? What more is there to say? I doubt those people who have to live off another full-time job would be good enough to get on a pro korean team and join the house to begin with. Not to mention koreans also have to deal with the mandatory 2 year military service which can literally break careers. I can't help but think this is very naive. There are plenty of pros that have had trouble performing in the past because of financial issues and because their time was split between playing and work, just because they have to work to sustain themselves doesn't mean they're bad. Sheth is a good example of someone who had some issues with sustaining himself financially before FXO, All of ROOT Gaming is another example, they had to split their time because despite being the best team in North America, they weren't making money and they weren't getting sponsorships. It's very naive to think that all you have to do is be good and you'll have the money to focus on Starcraft. You can't get good without practicing, and you can't get practice when you have other things to worry about. And how is this different from the koreans? Nothing I said was wrong. You have to be able to sustain yourself until you actually become a pro gamer, and if you can't sustain yourself while playing sc2 then you're not a pro yet.
Like I mentioned earlier, eSports is much more widespread and acceptable in Korea, it's growing fast in the west, but most of the players are actually somewhat older as they continue the scene from BW where they were once again behind.
If you look at a lot of the players that get taken in, they are quite young and teams aren't afraid of picking up untested players with little to no results, in Korea. To get on a pro team in the western scene right now, particularly one that will provide for you, you generally need some kind of results or you need to be VERY lucky or VERY promising.
If Pokebunny, for example, went to his parents(who I have no knowledge of, they could very well be very accepting) and said, "Hey, I want to become a pro-gamer and play 12 hours a day", I'm sure it'd be a much tougher sell in the west than it would be in Korea. The cultures are different...
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To get on a pro team in the western scene right now, particularly one that will provide for you, you generally need some kind of results or you need to be VERY lucky or VERY promising.
no way! sound like real sports leagues!
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On June 25 2011 14:39 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 14:33 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 14:26 Mordiford wrote:On June 25 2011 14:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 13:39 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:
[quote]
That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. Also, please enlighten us on these mystical progamers that are getting mega salaries to be able to quit their day jobs. 99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else. Whatever that is, it takes away time from sheer practice, which is what the koreans that live and train in pro-houses are doing. I think you're severely overestimating just how many people actually are in a situation, especially foreigners, where they are free from all obligations except practicing SC2. Then 99% of people aren't pro gamers? What more is there to say? I doubt those people who have to live off another full-time job would be good enough to get on a pro korean team and join the house to begin with. Not to mention koreans also have to deal with the mandatory 2 year military service which can literally break careers. I can't help but think this is very naive. There are plenty of pros that have had trouble performing in the past because of financial issues and because their time was split between playing and work, just because they have to work to sustain themselves doesn't mean they're bad. Sheth is a good example of someone who had some issues with sustaining himself financially before FXO, All of ROOT Gaming is another example, they had to split their time because despite being the best team in North America, they weren't making money and they weren't getting sponsorships. It's very naive to think that all you have to do is be good and you'll have the money to focus on Starcraft. You can't get good without practicing, and you can't get practice when you have other things to worry about. And how is this different from the koreans? Nothing I said was wrong. You have to be able to sustain yourself until you actually become a pro gamer, and if you can't sustain yourself while playing sc2 then you're not a pro yet. Like I mentioned earlier, eSports is much more widespread and acceptable in Korea, it's growing fast in the west, but most of the players are actually somewhat older as they continue the scene from BW where they were once again behind. If you look at a lot of the players that get taken in, they are quite young and teams aren't afraid of picking up untested players with little to no results, in Korea. To get on a pro team in the western scene right now, particularly one that will provide for you, you generally need some kind of results or you need to be VERY lucky or VERY promising.If Pokebunny, for example, went to his parents(who I have no knowledge of, they could very well be very accepting) and said, "Hey, I want to become a pro-gamer and play 12 hours a day", I'm sure it'd be a much tougher sell in the west than it would be in Korea. The cultures are different...
uh yeah great point
how do you think real athletes get on teams?
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On June 25 2011 14:42 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +To get on a pro team in the western scene right now, particularly one that will provide for you, you generally need some kind of results or you need to be VERY lucky or VERY promising. no way! sound like real sports leagues!
Not exactly, because if you have some talent and you want to go pro in some sport, there are ways to do it through college etc, not the case for professional gaming as far as I'm aware in the west. My point is simply, it's harder to get going in NA and the west in general than it is in Korea, just because of the acceptance and prevalence of eSports culture. They have everything setup already.
The salaried and top players in the west don't really have an excuse to be underperforming, but it's naive to assume that if you're good, you'll automatically be taken care of, you can't get good without practicing, and you can't practice without some level of support. I believe that the Korean scene is a little more eager about snatching up potential for salaried or lodged training than in the west.
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On June 25 2011 14:39 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 14:33 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 14:26 Mordiford wrote:On June 25 2011 14:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 13:39 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:
[quote]
That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. Also, please enlighten us on these mystical progamers that are getting mega salaries to be able to quit their day jobs. 99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else. Whatever that is, it takes away time from sheer practice, which is what the koreans that live and train in pro-houses are doing. I think you're severely overestimating just how many people actually are in a situation, especially foreigners, where they are free from all obligations except practicing SC2. Then 99% of people aren't pro gamers? What more is there to say? I doubt those people who have to live off another full-time job would be good enough to get on a pro korean team and join the house to begin with. Not to mention koreans also have to deal with the mandatory 2 year military service which can literally break careers. I can't help but think this is very naive. There are plenty of pros that have had trouble performing in the past because of financial issues and because their time was split between playing and work, just because they have to work to sustain themselves doesn't mean they're bad. Sheth is a good example of someone who had some issues with sustaining himself financially before FXO, All of ROOT Gaming is another example, they had to split their time because despite being the best team in North America, they weren't making money and they weren't getting sponsorships. It's very naive to think that all you have to do is be good and you'll have the money to focus on Starcraft. You can't get good without practicing, and you can't get practice when you have other things to worry about. And how is this different from the koreans? Nothing I said was wrong. You have to be able to sustain yourself until you actually become a pro gamer, and if you can't sustain yourself while playing sc2 then you're not a pro yet. Like I mentioned earlier, eSports is much more widespread and acceptable in Korea, it's growing fast in the west, but most of the players are actually somewhat older as they continue the scene from BW where they were once again behind. If you look at a lot of the players that get taken in, they are quite young and teams aren't afraid of picking up untested players with little to no results, in Korea. To get on a pro team in the western scene right now, particularly one that will provide for you, you generally need some kind of results or you need to be VERY lucky or VERY promising. If Pokebunny, for example, went to his parents(who I have no knowledge of, they could very well be very accepting) and said, "Hey, I want to become a pro-gamer and play 12 hours a day", I'm sure it'd be a much tougher sell in the west than it would be in Korea. The cultures are different...
who's being the naive one here now? You think korean parents are willing to just go ahead and accept the fact that their child wants to give up education and try to play games for the rest of their life? There's a ton of pros who had parents that were against their kid trying to be a pro gamer and it was only until they proved they were good enough that they finally accepted it. Boxer and marineking just to name a few. Korean culture isn't focused around gaming, it's heavily focused around education and success and becoming a gamer means you're giving that up.
Korean teams have tryouts, and even though some of them don't have tournament results when they join a team, they have ladder success which is basically the same thing for any NA player.
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On June 25 2011 14:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 14:39 Mordiford wrote:On June 25 2011 14:33 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 14:26 Mordiford wrote:On June 25 2011 14:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 13:39 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:
[quote]
I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:
[quote]
That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. Also, please enlighten us on these mystical progamers that are getting mega salaries to be able to quit their day jobs. 99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else. Whatever that is, it takes away time from sheer practice, which is what the koreans that live and train in pro-houses are doing. I think you're severely overestimating just how many people actually are in a situation, especially foreigners, where they are free from all obligations except practicing SC2. Then 99% of people aren't pro gamers? What more is there to say? I doubt those people who have to live off another full-time job would be good enough to get on a pro korean team and join the house to begin with. Not to mention koreans also have to deal with the mandatory 2 year military service which can literally break careers. I can't help but think this is very naive. There are plenty of pros that have had trouble performing in the past because of financial issues and because their time was split between playing and work, just because they have to work to sustain themselves doesn't mean they're bad. Sheth is a good example of someone who had some issues with sustaining himself financially before FXO, All of ROOT Gaming is another example, they had to split their time because despite being the best team in North America, they weren't making money and they weren't getting sponsorships. It's very naive to think that all you have to do is be good and you'll have the money to focus on Starcraft. You can't get good without practicing, and you can't get practice when you have other things to worry about. And how is this different from the koreans? Nothing I said was wrong. You have to be able to sustain yourself until you actually become a pro gamer, and if you can't sustain yourself while playing sc2 then you're not a pro yet. Like I mentioned earlier, eSports is much more widespread and acceptable in Korea, it's growing fast in the west, but most of the players are actually somewhat older as they continue the scene from BW where they were once again behind. If you look at a lot of the players that get taken in, they are quite young and teams aren't afraid of picking up untested players with little to no results, in Korea. To get on a pro team in the western scene right now, particularly one that will provide for you, you generally need some kind of results or you need to be VERY lucky or VERY promising. If Pokebunny, for example, went to his parents(who I have no knowledge of, they could very well be very accepting) and said, "Hey, I want to become a pro-gamer and play 12 hours a day", I'm sure it'd be a much tougher sell in the west than it would be in Korea. The cultures are different... who's being the naive one here now? You think korean parents are willing to just go ahead and accept the fact that their child wants to give up education and try to play games for the rest of their life? There's a ton of pros who had parents that were against their kid trying to be a pro gamer and it was only until they proved they were good enough that they finally accepted it. Boxer and marineking just to name a few. Korean culture isn't focused around gaming, it's heavily focused around education and success and becoming a gamer means you're giving that up. Korean teams have tryouts, and even though some of them don't have tournament results when they join a team, they have ladder success which is basically the same thing for any NA player.
Did I say any of the things you just assumed I said?
I simply said it's easier, gamer culture is more accepted in Korea, eSports in general really.
The only player that I can think off who was picked up based on their potential alone as a salaried player for a western team is Major. There are dozens of players in pro-houses who are under the age of 20 in Korea, SlayerSGolden is like 15 years old and is living in a pro-house, it is much more acceptable in Korea.
We're getting there in the west, but it's not really comparable yet.
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On June 25 2011 14:44 Geolich wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 14:39 Mordiford wrote:On June 25 2011 14:33 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 14:26 Mordiford wrote:On June 25 2011 14:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 13:39 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:
[quote]
I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:
[quote]
That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. Also, please enlighten us on these mystical progamers that are getting mega salaries to be able to quit their day jobs. 99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else. Whatever that is, it takes away time from sheer practice, which is what the koreans that live and train in pro-houses are doing. I think you're severely overestimating just how many people actually are in a situation, especially foreigners, where they are free from all obligations except practicing SC2. Then 99% of people aren't pro gamers? What more is there to say? I doubt those people who have to live off another full-time job would be good enough to get on a pro korean team and join the house to begin with. Not to mention koreans also have to deal with the mandatory 2 year military service which can literally break careers. I can't help but think this is very naive. There are plenty of pros that have had trouble performing in the past because of financial issues and because their time was split between playing and work, just because they have to work to sustain themselves doesn't mean they're bad. Sheth is a good example of someone who had some issues with sustaining himself financially before FXO, All of ROOT Gaming is another example, they had to split their time because despite being the best team in North America, they weren't making money and they weren't getting sponsorships. It's very naive to think that all you have to do is be good and you'll have the money to focus on Starcraft. You can't get good without practicing, and you can't get practice when you have other things to worry about. And how is this different from the koreans? Nothing I said was wrong. You have to be able to sustain yourself until you actually become a pro gamer, and if you can't sustain yourself while playing sc2 then you're not a pro yet. Like I mentioned earlier, eSports is much more widespread and acceptable in Korea, it's growing fast in the west, but most of the players are actually somewhat older as they continue the scene from BW where they were once again behind. If you look at a lot of the players that get taken in, they are quite young and teams aren't afraid of picking up untested players with little to no results, in Korea. To get on a pro team in the western scene right now, particularly one that will provide for you, you generally need some kind of results or you need to be VERY lucky or VERY promising.If Pokebunny, for example, went to his parents(who I have no knowledge of, they could very well be very accepting) and said, "Hey, I want to become a pro-gamer and play 12 hours a day", I'm sure it'd be a much tougher sell in the west than it would be in Korea. The cultures are different... uh yeah great point how do you think real athletes get on teams?
Let me know when they start offering Starcraft 2 in our high schools, where talent scouts can come pick you for their college team. Then you can shine and be drafted into a professional team.
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On June 25 2011 15:02 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 14:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 14:39 Mordiford wrote:On June 25 2011 14:33 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 14:26 Mordiford wrote:On June 25 2011 14:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 13:39 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:
[quote]
I don't think you can read.
He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job.
Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will.
This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:
[quote]
I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. Also, please enlighten us on these mystical progamers that are getting mega salaries to be able to quit their day jobs. 99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else. Whatever that is, it takes away time from sheer practice, which is what the koreans that live and train in pro-houses are doing. I think you're severely overestimating just how many people actually are in a situation, especially foreigners, where they are free from all obligations except practicing SC2. Then 99% of people aren't pro gamers? What more is there to say? I doubt those people who have to live off another full-time job would be good enough to get on a pro korean team and join the house to begin with. Not to mention koreans also have to deal with the mandatory 2 year military service which can literally break careers. I can't help but think this is very naive. There are plenty of pros that have had trouble performing in the past because of financial issues and because their time was split between playing and work, just because they have to work to sustain themselves doesn't mean they're bad. Sheth is a good example of someone who had some issues with sustaining himself financially before FXO, All of ROOT Gaming is another example, they had to split their time because despite being the best team in North America, they weren't making money and they weren't getting sponsorships. It's very naive to think that all you have to do is be good and you'll have the money to focus on Starcraft. You can't get good without practicing, and you can't get practice when you have other things to worry about. And how is this different from the koreans? Nothing I said was wrong. You have to be able to sustain yourself until you actually become a pro gamer, and if you can't sustain yourself while playing sc2 then you're not a pro yet. Like I mentioned earlier, eSports is much more widespread and acceptable in Korea, it's growing fast in the west, but most of the players are actually somewhat older as they continue the scene from BW where they were once again behind. If you look at a lot of the players that get taken in, they are quite young and teams aren't afraid of picking up untested players with little to no results, in Korea. To get on a pro team in the western scene right now, particularly one that will provide for you, you generally need some kind of results or you need to be VERY lucky or VERY promising. If Pokebunny, for example, went to his parents(who I have no knowledge of, they could very well be very accepting) and said, "Hey, I want to become a pro-gamer and play 12 hours a day", I'm sure it'd be a much tougher sell in the west than it would be in Korea. The cultures are different... who's being the naive one here now? You think korean parents are willing to just go ahead and accept the fact that their child wants to give up education and try to play games for the rest of their life? There's a ton of pros who had parents that were against their kid trying to be a pro gamer and it was only until they proved they were good enough that they finally accepted it. Boxer and marineking just to name a few. Korean culture isn't focused around gaming, it's heavily focused around education and success and becoming a gamer means you're giving that up. Korean teams have tryouts, and even though some of them don't have tournament results when they join a team, they have ladder success which is basically the same thing for any NA player. Did I say any of the things you just assumed I said? I simply said it's easier, gamer culture is more accepted in Korea, eSports in general really. The only player that I can think off who was picked up based on their potential alone as a salaried player for a western team is Major. There are dozens of players in pro-houses who are under the age of 20 in Korea, SlayerSGolden is like 15 years old and is living in a pro-house, it is much more acceptable in Korea. We're getting there in the west, but it's not really comparable yet.
If you didn't say anything that I said then what was the point of saying it? You're saying that it's more accepted, but then agree with me that parents don't accept the idea of their child becoming a progamer? It's not easier unless you're good enough. Any 15 year old pro gamer in Korea didn't get there by not going to school and just playing sc2 all day. They had the same responsibilities as anyone else in NA and had to get good enough alone to be picked up by a pro team -- these were GM level players before they were picked up.
Also, no one is being salaried here. I don't think they have to pay for housing and food afaik, but unless you're fruitdealer or trickster (although not anymore since they left) you don't get paid unless you win tournaments. July even said he was sustaining himself off of his 2nd place GSL result.
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I would like to point out that there are about 175 Korean SC2 players who, while most not salaried, all live in team houses that cover all their living expenses. These players, including up-and-coming players, can spend all their time practicing.
Although many foreign teams do provide salary, the amount players are paid is not public knowledge. However, it has been made clear by members of the community that the majority of foreign players do not make enough money solely from team salary and tournament winnings alone to support themselves. Because of the lack of real team houses for most of the foreigners, it is difficult for any but the most famous or skillful to afford to practice full time and need to coach, stream, or work to supplement their income. This inability for most to afford to practice with the same kind of regiment as Koreans is a main cause in the disparity in skill-level. Although there may be some foreigners who could afford to spent all their time practicing yet don't, it's not fair to disparage the majority of foreign players who do not have the financial stability to avoid all other work.
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On June 25 2011 10:22 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 10:20 Defacer wrote:
Can anyone recommend some games to watch from the Open? I'm at work during the day and seriously don't have time to watch all the games.
Where's Motbob when you need him?
On vacation.
D'oh!
Seriously, you deserve the time off.
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On June 25 2011 12:32 StyLeD wrote:Wow holy crap, with players like that there's no way I'm skipping out on any day of the tournament. edit: All the more sweeter for those NA player remaining. Cream of the crop....anyways, the foreigner count will be maintained by those in Europe and stuff. I don't mind that there's no NA players, even though this is hosted in NA.
Holy shit. OGS, Slayers. Shit just got REAL!
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On June 25 2011 15:03 cwp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 14:44 Geolich wrote:On June 25 2011 14:39 Mordiford wrote:On June 25 2011 14:33 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 14:26 Mordiford wrote:On June 25 2011 14:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:On June 25 2011 13:39 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:
[quote]
I don't think you can read.
He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job.
Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will.
This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:
[quote]
I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. Also, please enlighten us on these mystical progamers that are getting mega salaries to be able to quit their day jobs. 99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else. Whatever that is, it takes away time from sheer practice, which is what the koreans that live and train in pro-houses are doing. I think you're severely overestimating just how many people actually are in a situation, especially foreigners, where they are free from all obligations except practicing SC2. Then 99% of people aren't pro gamers? What more is there to say? I doubt those people who have to live off another full-time job would be good enough to get on a pro korean team and join the house to begin with. Not to mention koreans also have to deal with the mandatory 2 year military service which can literally break careers. I can't help but think this is very naive. There are plenty of pros that have had trouble performing in the past because of financial issues and because their time was split between playing and work, just because they have to work to sustain themselves doesn't mean they're bad. Sheth is a good example of someone who had some issues with sustaining himself financially before FXO, All of ROOT Gaming is another example, they had to split their time because despite being the best team in North America, they weren't making money and they weren't getting sponsorships. It's very naive to think that all you have to do is be good and you'll have the money to focus on Starcraft. You can't get good without practicing, and you can't get practice when you have other things to worry about. And how is this different from the koreans? Nothing I said was wrong. You have to be able to sustain yourself until you actually become a pro gamer, and if you can't sustain yourself while playing sc2 then you're not a pro yet. Like I mentioned earlier, eSports is much more widespread and acceptable in Korea, it's growing fast in the west, but most of the players are actually somewhat older as they continue the scene from BW where they were once again behind. If you look at a lot of the players that get taken in, they are quite young and teams aren't afraid of picking up untested players with little to no results, in Korea. To get on a pro team in the western scene right now, particularly one that will provide for you, you generally need some kind of results or you need to be VERY lucky or VERY promising.If Pokebunny, for example, went to his parents(who I have no knowledge of, they could very well be very accepting) and said, "Hey, I want to become a pro-gamer and play 12 hours a day", I'm sure it'd be a much tougher sell in the west than it would be in Korea. The cultures are different... uh yeah great point how do you think real athletes get on teams? Let me know when they start offering Starcraft 2 in our high schools, where talent scouts can come pick you for their college team. Then you can shine and be drafted into a professional team.
oh youre right, i forgot that SC2 or BW is a part of the Korean curriculum
idiot.
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EPT
