|
On June 25 2011 13:18 gosu86 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 12:51 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:11 nufcrulz wrote:
i guess this is going to be BW all over again. I think if foreigners want to compete they really need to adapt the korean training regime. But that'll never happen. It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do. Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time. You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. What? So only NA people have jobs/part-time jobs they have to do along with SC2? Koreans don't have jobs/part-time jobs they have to do along with sc2? Or matter of fact anyone else in the world that is a pro-gamer. Your just making up bs, think before you speak. Your acting like people in Korea have nothing else to do besides gaming. I don't understand all this talk about the NA scene that people want to do good and become a great pro gamer but can't due to certain reasons... job, life, etc... If you want to become a pro gamer and win the big money and sponsors than you better put 100percent into it instead of doing it half ass.
ya 100%
korean work ethic is miles ahead of the west
i mean the so-called best foreigner openly admits he trains 3 hours a day. tyler admitted he basically doesnt practice.
i mean wtf? is there any surprise korea is pulling ahead already
|
On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking.
Koreans dont get paid salarys,foreigns players have salarys they do coaching and streaming to gain more money out of it.But they dont practice which they should do,and they dont take it seriously as a job.Im really disgusted that players get paid salary and travel expenses by teams supportingt these players but the players coach and stream,and forget about their jobs.Teams should consider sacking them.
|
If you want to become a pro gamer and win the big money and sponsors than you better put 100percent into it instead of doing it half ass.
This is not a problem with players it is a problem with management. I like Tyler's personality and I like TL in general but the fact that he says he is not practicing much, yet is being paid salary by TL, has no other job, and is not in school, is retarded. TL needs to impose some standards on their players. It is not just TL all foreigner teams do. That is how "real life" works, you are expected to either work x hours a day or if on salary obtain results up to some level. That is the issue with western pro-gaming in a nutshell.
|
TLDR
Koreans mentality: Works hard > Decent results > Gets recognized by teams or sponsors > Enters a team house or gets salary > Become self sufficient just playing starcraft > Works even hard
Foreigners mentality: Expects to be recognized by teams or sponsors regardless > Enters a team house or gets salary > Become self sufficient just playing starcraft > Maybe work hard
|
On June 25 2011 13:12 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Exactly. It is their fucking job and they can't be bothered to do it 40+ hours a week like most people in "real life" do.
Obviously pro-gaming is a great career, you get everything handed to you for just 3 hours of work a day. That's why there's this HUGGGE influx of progamers- kids want to grow up to doctors, lawyers and progamers. News reports that pro-gaming have lowered the unemployment rate to near 0.
If progamers need to work 40+ hours a week to be successful
-> Then progamers who work less will be less successful
-> They won't be sponsored
--> They will work harder to be successful
--> They will become peopel who work 40+ hours a week
If you look at people like IdrA, who no doubt fuel your anger, then this is shown to be not true.
Then the next hypothesis is that it is an easy career to be a progamer: minimal effort for a reasonable life to be successful
-> Then progaming would be a popular profession
That is immediately untrue. If there are not so many progamers, then there must be a reason for it. If, truly as you say, they get for 3 hours a day what you get for 8 hours a day, then why would you want to do anything else? Obviously that means there is something different.
It is comparing apples to oranges when comparing pro-gaming to other professions. Consider that there are things other than "practice" as in playing. For instance, IdrA says he does not consider laddering practice. That would perhaps his 1-3 hours of laddering outside of practice, while it actually helps subtly. Would thinking about the metagame and watching replays count as practice?
Be careful when you get angry about something, because if you slow down, there is probably a explanation.
|
yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life.
How money works in real life? I don't know if you realize this but 99.9% of the ppl on this website don't support themselves through pro gaming. They know how money works. You either get a job where you are paid hourly wages or you work on salary with an expected outcome for some result. I think it is you that do not understand. If that is how the scene work than from an economical standpoint it should and will die.
|
On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works.
Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day.
And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research.
|
And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research.
grad student and pro-gamer are similar in some ways. you dedicate 60+ hours a week well getting paid very little but the end outcome will be an excellent high paying job if you can show good results. On average it is better for the grad students than the pro-gamers but it is a similar mentality.
|
On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research.
Re-read my post, I edited it and elaborated. I agree with you that players in a position to quit their day job aren't practicing enough. And it's quite sad.
Anyways, I was just responding to the people that were posting that "koreans have better work ethic or work harder." I don't think that is the case at all.
|
Re-read my post, I edited it and elaborated. I agree with you that players in a position to quit their day job aren't practicing enough. And it's quite sad.
OK. Well that was all I was arguing about man, not about people who legitimately have to work on the side etc... of course they won't compete with people who are full time. The problem is there are alot of western players who are supposedly "full time" and their management does not hold them to any kind of practice regime. That is my argument.
|
Lol every match remaining so far has a Korean in it, love it. I hope they keep smashing everyone so foreigners will actually have a reason to practice just as hard.
|
On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research.
Also, please enlighten us on these mystical progamers that are getting mega salaries to be able to quit their day jobs. 99% are doing something else other than progaming to support themselves, whether it's streaming, coaching, real life jobs, or anything else.
Whatever that is, it takes away time from sheer practice, which is what the koreans that live and train in pro-houses are doing.
I think you're severely overestimating just how many people actually are in a situation, especially foreigners, where they are free from all obligations except practicing SC2.
|
I think you guys are arguing about different groups of people.
When comparing the top koreans and foreigners, the koreans likely work much harder and I believe that to be the reason for the skill gap. I also agree that since the top foreigners are on salary, they don't really have much excuse to train little. I'm not saying that they owe it to anybody to train that much, just that I can't think of any competitive sport where the top people don't train like madmen. And when the top foreigners who train little start falling from the top, nobody should be surprised.
NASL Open Tournament OTOH is a tournament comparing lower-level koreans and lower-level foreginers. The korean system makes it so that their lower-level players can also train just as much as the top-level players. Foreigners can't do this however, since they need to support themselves. Thus I wouldn't put any blame on lower-level foreigners for getting crushed in this tournament. It's just a sad reality.
|
On June 25 2011 13:31 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. grad student and pro-gamer are similar in some ways. you dedicate 60+ hours a week well getting paid very little but the end outcome will be an excellent high paying job if you can show good results. On average it is better for the grad students than the pro-gamers but it is a similar mentality.
 If only. It really depends on your subject, though. Studying physics in grad school, for instance, is more lucrative than going into progaming. On the other hand, studying something like archaeology, history, or English doesn't have as good a pay-off. (If anything, progaming's probably more practical than going to grad school in subjects such as those. It kind of sucks, for sure.)
|
On June 25 2011 13:32 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. Re-read my post, I edited it and elaborated. I agree with you that players in a position to quit their day job aren't practicing enough. And it's quite sad.
So you're basically saying that salaried players have no excuse for being bad, but for everyone else, there's good reasoning because they have other shit to do and can't focus their lives entirely on Starcraft 2. Because if so, I think that's fair, no one is really expecting JoeSchmoeStarcraft to start knocking out Koreans, but if you have the financial capacity via team sponsorship and salary, then I do expect you to take the game seriously and not complain about having to compete with people in a more serious environment.
Just wondering, are you salaried at all for Starcraft or are you working a regular job as well?
The Korean eSports scene in general is far ahead of the western scene, with pro-gaming essentially being a recognizable profession, it's growing in the west but we're not quite at the same point as the Koreans in that regard, but I do think that professional players, who are sponsored, particularly if you're salaried should not complain because there are plenty of Korean players who don't have the same privileges and backing that they do, but put in twice the work.
I feel the scene has grown in the west partly because of the player focus on being more personable and doing things like streaming and coaching, but because of this, player skill has suffered. Meanwhile, in Korea, the players focus entirely on improving their game, while GOM has handled all of the production surrounding the players in their own professional manner, even then, I don't think we've gotten to know many of the Korean players, not because of the language barrier really(Cella does fine with limited english), but because many of them don't really do things like streaming, they just focus on their game. In short, the focus of each scene has developed differently, but we're at a point where if westerners want to compete it has to change.
Sorry for the long off topic rant...
I hope Thorzain or NightEnd can win it, both of them seem like pretty cool guys and are really good players.
|
On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research.
And that's a huge difference. Most pro-gamers or aspiring pros are NOT being paid a salary. Your sole obligation is earning you money. A foreigner practicing 12 hours a day does not guarantee a salary, let alone any money.
You can do physics 12 hours a day, you will be paid. A player can practice 12 hours a day and make ZERO. That's the difference that in all your physics glory you seem to not be connecting here...
|
On June 25 2011 13:44 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. And that's a huge difference. Most pro-gamers or aspiring pros are NOT being paid a salary. Your sole obligation is earning you money. A foreigner practicing 12 hours a day does not guarantee a salary, let alone any money. You can do physics 12 hours a day, you will be paid. A player can practice 12 hours a day and make ZERO. That's the difference that in all your physics glory you seem to not be connecting here...
I dont get what your trying to express, so what do you suggest foreigners do then
|
Well done ThorZaiN and CLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide 
|
And that's a huge difference. Most pro-gamers or aspiring pros are NOT being paid a salary. Your sole obligation is earning you money. A foreigner practicing 12 hours a day does not guarantee a salary, let alone any money.
What you seem to not be understanding is that there are more foreigners who DO get paid salaries in SC2 than there are koreans. I understand your argument and agree 100% for the ones that don't, but you are ignoring everyone on EG, TL, etc... rosters. When you have so many salaried players with no obligation for their practice hours what do you expect to happen in the pro scene?
|
On June 25 2011 13:47 Benga wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 13:44 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:27 iostream wrote:On June 25 2011 13:20 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 13:11 Klamity wrote:On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. I don't think you can read. He clearly pointed out two players who do NOT have to do some sort of job to support themselves. Starcraft IS their job. Perhaps starting up is more difficult, but nothing prevents the top foreigners from grinding away like the Koreans aside from sheer will. This really boils down to your seeming bitterness at not having the same opportunity. Unfortunately, talent can't be achieved through talking. yeah...i'm just gonna re-quote myself. It must be great to be a forum warrior and not understand anything about the scene or how money works in real life. On June 25 2011 13:04 avilo wrote:On June 25 2011 12:58 Duravi wrote:It will only not happen because as said in this thread multiple times by people, the majority of foreigners don't have the backing or support to play 8-12 hours a day like the korean progamers do.
Most foreigners that are trying to be progamers have real jobs/part-time jobs that they have to do along with SC2, so it takes away from practice time.
You can't adapt the regimen if you have to work all day. That is a bunch of bullshit. Most of the korean players don't even have salary, while all the top foreigners do. Idra is on salary practicing 3 hours a day. Tyler is on salary, how much do u think he practices? The problem is that management in the west refuses to hold foreigners to a schedule like most jobs in the entire fucking world do. It is extremely frustrating, you can see the results in Huk, more foreigners need to follow his lead. It also doesn't help that EG has been preaching this "korea is not the place to be" bullshit for several months now. I don't think you understand how real life works. Alright, avilo, please enlighten us why having a salary which is a) with no strings attached and b) large enough to allow you to quit your day job is not enough to give you the freedom to practice 8-12 hours a day. And before you requote yourself again, I know how "real life" works. I am a graduate student who gets paid a salary large enough to live on. My sole obligation is to do physics, and that is literally all I do, and nothing gets in the way of me dedicating myself entirely to my research. And that's a huge difference. Most pro-gamers or aspiring pros are NOT being paid a salary. Your sole obligation is earning you money. A foreigner practicing 12 hours a day does not guarantee a salary, let alone any money. You can do physics 12 hours a day, you will be paid. A player can practice 12 hours a day and make ZERO. That's the difference that in all your physics glory you seem to not be connecting here... I dont get what your trying to express, so what do you suggest foreigners do then
Keep practicing as much as possible obviously! It's just naive for people to think that foreigners will be able to practice as many hours as korean players that are living in pro-houses, and try to claim that "foreigners don't work as hard." The cultures are entirely different, and the korean scene for starcraft in general is already established.
And even "salaried foreigners" for the most part cannot just support themselves from that, so assuming that they are not working hard is sort of absurd imo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
