• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:09
CEST 02:09
KST 09:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy0GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding0Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage3Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2113 users

[GSL] Up & Down Matches Day 1 - Page 110

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 108 109 110 111 112 116 Next
fatvirgin
Profile Joined September 2010
23 Posts
May 09 2011 16:55 GMT
#2181
On May 10 2011 01:52 Mordiford wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2011 01:41 doihy wrote:
On May 10 2011 00:46 Slimijs wrote:
On May 09 2011 23:57 zerious wrote:
On May 09 2011 23:55 Maenander wrote:
On May 09 2011 22:56 eoLithic wrote:
Nature has its ways. The weaker ones has to go and the strongest remain. I think both Jinro and HuK will fall down from code-A and leave Korea together with Haypro. Honestly, I don`t see any player with enough dedication and methodical approach to the game to keep up with the koreans, except IdrA.

I think it is definitely time to realize that the koreans are one step ahead, and will always be.

I just want the better players to stay, and that is what happened today. Jinro played like a beast a month or so ago though, oh well.

It is not like Jinro and Huk had more success in foreigner tournaments lately, I doubt players like Zenio are one step ahead of the non-korean scene.


I'm pretty sure Zenio would slaughter any foreign terran.


Well

+ Show Spoiler +
Drewbie beat him 2-0 in NASL yestarday


Yea because Drewbie can totally make it through the Code A qualifiers, and then go on to Code S.


He probably could if he put his mind to it and took 6 months out to move to Korea.

What are you trying to imply? GSL is a commitment, some other top players have failed to make it in because they simply take one shot at it and then leave, most of the players in there right now either took the time to consistently work at getting in and staying in, or were a part of GSL early on before the split really pushed weaker players out.

It'd be astounding for anyone to just move to Korea and make their way into Code S in one try at the moment. Even more astounding if they managed to stay in Code S for a following season.


no, just no. It takes an already GOOD player like Idra or Jinro, to stay in Korea for 6 months to qualify. A mediocre player like Drewbie will never qualify. Huk would never qualify if it weren't for a free spot in Code A. There's plenty of Europeans that could qualify, but I'd say Idra is the only NA player that could.
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
May 09 2011 16:56 GMT
#2182
On May 10 2011 01:47 Sandster wrote:
oGs has some insane internet in their team house (they actually offered to let all korean players use their house for international games before), and as such lag should not be a big problem for oGs.Zenio. It probably isn't like playing on LAN, but the effects of lag would be minimal.

I guess you played some games from there otherwise you are assuming
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
Mordiford
Profile Joined April 2011
4448 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-09 17:03:11
May 09 2011 16:58 GMT
#2183
On May 10 2011 01:55 fatvirgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2011 01:52 Mordiford wrote:
On May 10 2011 01:41 doihy wrote:
On May 10 2011 00:46 Slimijs wrote:
On May 09 2011 23:57 zerious wrote:
On May 09 2011 23:55 Maenander wrote:
On May 09 2011 22:56 eoLithic wrote:
Nature has its ways. The weaker ones has to go and the strongest remain. I think both Jinro and HuK will fall down from code-A and leave Korea together with Haypro. Honestly, I don`t see any player with enough dedication and methodical approach to the game to keep up with the koreans, except IdrA.

I think it is definitely time to realize that the koreans are one step ahead, and will always be.

I just want the better players to stay, and that is what happened today. Jinro played like a beast a month or so ago though, oh well.

It is not like Jinro and Huk had more success in foreigner tournaments lately, I doubt players like Zenio are one step ahead of the non-korean scene.


I'm pretty sure Zenio would slaughter any foreign terran.


Well

+ Show Spoiler +
Drewbie beat him 2-0 in NASL yestarday


Yea because Drewbie can totally make it through the Code A qualifiers, and then go on to Code S.


He probably could if he put his mind to it and took 6 months out to move to Korea.

What are you trying to imply? GSL is a commitment, some other top players have failed to make it in because they simply take one shot at it and then leave, most of the players in there right now either took the time to consistently work at getting in and staying in, or were a part of GSL early on before the split really pushed weaker players out.

It'd be astounding for anyone to just move to Korea and make their way into Code S in one try at the moment. Even more astounding if they managed to stay in Code S for a following season.


no, just no. It takes an already GOOD player like Idra or Jinro, to stay in Korea for 6 months to qualify. A mediocre player like Drewbie will never qualify. Huk would never qualify if it weren't for a free spot in Code A. There's plenty of Europeans that could qualify, but I'd say Idra is the only NA player that could.


Well, I guess we disagree there.

I don't consider Drewbie a mediocre player. SeleCT, one of the top Terrans in NA and probably one of the best foreign Terrans overall failed to qualify, so did Kiwikaki. IdrA got in and stayed in before the league really peaked in terms of difficulty and before some of the weaker players started getting pushed out. I'm pretty sure he could re-qualify if he put in the effort, but I think you're mistaken in thinking he's the only one who could.
fatvirgin
Profile Joined September 2010
23 Posts
May 09 2011 16:58 GMT
#2184
On May 10 2011 01:56 Sclol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2011 01:47 Sandster wrote:
oGs has some insane internet in their team house (they actually offered to let all korean players use their house for international games before), and as such lag should not be a big problem for oGs.Zenio. It probably isn't like playing on LAN, but the effects of lag would be minimal.

I guess you played some games from there otherwise you are assuming


Idra said he played games at the oGs house and still said it was unplayable.

In fact, he said no results from online tournaments NA-KR should be considered.

I'm going to go with him, since like Jinro or Tyler, he's not obligated to say the matches are fair.
Mordiford
Profile Joined April 2011
4448 Posts
May 09 2011 17:01 GMT
#2185
On May 10 2011 01:58 fatvirgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2011 01:56 Sclol wrote:
On May 10 2011 01:47 Sandster wrote:
oGs has some insane internet in their team house (they actually offered to let all korean players use their house for international games before), and as such lag should not be a big problem for oGs.Zenio. It probably isn't like playing on LAN, but the effects of lag would be minimal.

I guess you played some games from there otherwise you are assuming


Idra said he played games at the oGs house and still said it was unplayable.

In fact, he said no results from online tournaments NA-KR should be considered.

I'm going to go with him, since like Jinro or Tyler, he's not obligated to say the matches are fair.


Some players have been complaining more than others, some not at all.

I've yet to hear Sen complain about playing on the NA server and he always performs well. Based on what I've seen, the Korean players on oGs appear to react and micro normally or near-normally in their matches with no indication of lag severely affecting their play.

Even a heavily micro oriented player like MC appears to be able to handle his shit alright.
Kresnik02
Profile Joined April 2011
Brazil36 Posts
May 09 2011 17:08 GMT
#2186
Now i dunno if i should buy the season pass for the next code a/code s. Im going to buy for the super champ.
My english is really bad, sorry about that.
ct2299
Profile Joined February 2011
380 Posts
May 09 2011 17:12 GMT
#2187
On May 09 2011 22:58 shell wrote:
ohh and btw:

oGsMC
IMMvP

also went to code A so it's no shame to loose


God it really bugs me when people get LOSE and LOOSE mixed up.
Also when they get their facts wrong as well... MC is in the up/down matches
Up/Down matches =/= BEING in Code A
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14104 Posts
May 09 2011 17:15 GMT
#2188
;( about jinro
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
shaman6ix
Profile Joined January 2011
Greece212 Posts
May 09 2011 17:16 GMT
#2189
On May 10 2011 01:58 fatvirgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2011 01:56 Sclol wrote:
On May 10 2011 01:47 Sandster wrote:
oGs has some insane internet in their team house (they actually offered to let all korean players use their house for international games before), and as such lag should not be a big problem for oGs.Zenio. It probably isn't like playing on LAN, but the effects of lag would be minimal.

I guess you played some games from there otherwise you are assuming


Idra said he played games at the oGs house and still said it was unplayable.

In fact, he said no results from online tournaments NA-KR should be considered.

I'm going to go with him, since like Jinro or Tyler, he's not obligated to say the matches are fair.


find a more reliable source. Idra is an immature kid who whines all the time about everything - thats his thing.
when evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve
Irrelevant
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2364 Posts
May 09 2011 17:19 GMT
#2190
Correction he only whines about things that aren't in his favor, not being in korea the lag has no effect on him so he doesn't have an extra agenda saying that KR-NA is unplayable if anything it takes credit away from his own wins over KRs while being in NA
bearhug
Profile Joined September 2010
United States999 Posts
May 09 2011 17:20 GMT
#2191
Jinro may want to learn some TvZ from MKP. I know he is a friend of Jinro. Of course, MKP can learn some solid TvT from Jinro for exchange.

Hope Jinro get better and back to top soon!
We are dusts in the vast cosmic arena. Need to make the most out of life when we still have it.
SirDuke
Profile Joined October 2010
United States239 Posts
May 09 2011 17:21 GMT
#2192
figured id put it in spoilers so no one gets pissed, but i feel obliged to do so.
+ Show Spoiler +
NOOOOOOO JINROOOOO!!!!!!!
Wanna turn up the heat?
Technique
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands1542 Posts
May 09 2011 17:22 GMT
#2193
On May 10 2011 01:58 Mordiford wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2011 01:55 fatvirgin wrote:
On May 10 2011 01:52 Mordiford wrote:
On May 10 2011 01:41 doihy wrote:
On May 10 2011 00:46 Slimijs wrote:
On May 09 2011 23:57 zerious wrote:
On May 09 2011 23:55 Maenander wrote:
On May 09 2011 22:56 eoLithic wrote:
Nature has its ways. The weaker ones has to go and the strongest remain. I think both Jinro and HuK will fall down from code-A and leave Korea together with Haypro. Honestly, I don`t see any player with enough dedication and methodical approach to the game to keep up with the koreans, except IdrA.

I think it is definitely time to realize that the koreans are one step ahead, and will always be.

I just want the better players to stay, and that is what happened today. Jinro played like a beast a month or so ago though, oh well.

It is not like Jinro and Huk had more success in foreigner tournaments lately, I doubt players like Zenio are one step ahead of the non-korean scene.


I'm pretty sure Zenio would slaughter any foreign terran.


Well

+ Show Spoiler +
Drewbie beat him 2-0 in NASL yestarday


Yea because Drewbie can totally make it through the Code A qualifiers, and then go on to Code S.


He probably could if he put his mind to it and took 6 months out to move to Korea.

What are you trying to imply? GSL is a commitment, some other top players have failed to make it in because they simply take one shot at it and then leave, most of the players in there right now either took the time to consistently work at getting in and staying in, or were a part of GSL early on before the split really pushed weaker players out.

It'd be astounding for anyone to just move to Korea and make their way into Code S in one try at the moment. Even more astounding if they managed to stay in Code S for a following season.


no, just no. It takes an already GOOD player like Idra or Jinro, to stay in Korea for 6 months to qualify. A mediocre player like Drewbie will never qualify. Huk would never qualify if it weren't for a free spot in Code A. There's plenty of Europeans that could qualify, but I'd say Idra is the only NA player that could.


Well, I guess we disagree there.

I don't consider Drewbie a mediocre player. SeleCT, one of the top Terrans in NA and probably one of the best foreign Terrans overall failed to qualify, so did Kiwikaki. IdrA got in and stayed in before the league really peaked in terms of difficulty and before some of the weaker players started getting pushed out. I'm pretty sure he could re-qualify if he put in the effort, but I think you're mistaken in thinking he's the only one who could.

And so did jinro, twice...
If you think you're good, you suck. If you think you suck, you're getting better.
ct2299
Profile Joined February 2011
380 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-09 17:27:15
May 09 2011 17:23 GMT
#2194
*sigh* sad to see Jinro lose, he was my last legitimate hope for TL in Korea.
As a team though, besides him and Ret (who has been playing quite well in NASL lately):
Tyler has been slumping like crazy lately, HuK probably won't last past the up/down matches, TLO well the guy has always been "creative" but not that consistent, and then there's Haypro which I shouldn't really have to elaborate on.

Cmon Jinro! Keep it up! You can smash Code A and make it back into Code S.
leungwk01
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1260 Posts
May 09 2011 17:25 GMT
#2195
I'm not really surprised that jinro is down to code A, he hasn't be performing well lately along with the majority of liquid players.
And I'm gonna say that either jinro or Huk so going to be in code B by the end of next season.
ct2299
Profile Joined February 2011
380 Posts
May 09 2011 17:26 GMT
#2196
On May 10 2011 01:47 Sandster wrote:
oGs has some insane internet in their team house (they actually offered to let all korean players use their house for international games before), and as such lag should not be a big problem for oGs.Zenio. It probably isn't like playing on LAN, but the effects of lag would be minimal.


I love how people try and downplay the lag. Sure, oGs may let people use it, but maybe it goes from completely unbearable to not as bad. I highly doubt the "effects of lag would be minimal". That's a statement full of assumptions. How do you know how bad the lag is at the other houses, better than the other houses is all relative to how bad the internet in the other houses is.
ct2299
Profile Joined February 2011
380 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-09 17:26:58
May 09 2011 17:26 GMT
#2197
.
quiet noise
Profile Joined May 2011
599 Posts
May 09 2011 17:28 GMT
#2198
Think positive; Naniwa is probably going to win the road to korea and get a seed into code A. He is going to melt up some faces.
Mordiford
Profile Joined April 2011
4448 Posts
May 09 2011 17:29 GMT
#2199
On May 10 2011 02:26 ct2299 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2011 01:47 Sandster wrote:
oGs has some insane internet in their team house (they actually offered to let all korean players use their house for international games before), and as such lag should not be a big problem for oGs.Zenio. It probably isn't like playing on LAN, but the effects of lag would be minimal.


I love how people try and downplay the lag. Sure, oGs may let people use it, but maybe it goes from completely unbearable to not as bad. I highly doubt the "effects of lag would be minimal". That's a statement full of assumptions. How do you know how bad the lag is at the other houses, better than the other houses is all relative to how bad the internet in the other houses is.


Your assumptions are as good as ours at the end of the day.

I used to play DotA on NA from Pakistan and after I got an internet upgrade, I was surprisingly doing fine with little to no-issue.

I don't know how bad the latency situation is, but based on what I'm seeing in these games, the Korean players aren't missing a beat in terms of micro and reaction time that I would attribute to lag, and when they do mess something up because of lag, it is fairly obvious and noticeable.
ct2299
Profile Joined February 2011
380 Posts
May 09 2011 17:29 GMT
#2200
On May 10 2011 00:29 MechKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2011 00:21 PartyBiscuit wrote:
On May 10 2011 00:00 Beefwipe wrote:
On May 09 2011 23:53 shaman6ix wrote:
On May 09 2011 23:06 tdt wrote:
On May 09 2011 22:56 eoLithic wrote:
Nature has its ways. The weaker ones has to go and the strongest remain. I think both Jinro and HuK will fall down from code-A and leave Korea together with Haypro. Honestly, I don`t see any player with enough dedication and methodical approach to the game to keep up with the koreans, except IdrA.

I think it is definitely time to realize that the koreans are one step ahead, and will always be.

I just want the better players to stay, and that is what happened today. Jinro played like a beast a month or so ago though, oh well.

West don't have best players there. NaNi, Thor, Hasu, Dimaga, Strelok, kas and many others I think would be S class.

idra too of course. He was getting higher every season and is playing better than ever now.


What? Are you aware of the Code-S level of play? Hasu, Strelok would never ever get there. Kas has the skill and he could if he trained 24/7 but he lacks strong mentality and thats extremely important when it comes to stage matches.. Thor has a lot to prove yet, dont get carried away from his results in online matches he had a week to prepare for. NaNi and Dimaga are the only ones who i could see in Code-S after 2 or 3 months in Korea.


Are you aware of the Code-S level of play?

A lot of top Europeans would easily play in Code S, I can only think of a few Americans but the Europeans are definitely there skill-wise.


A few of the top Europeans could compete in Code S (and be about mid-tier), a lot could (maybe) compete in Code A. TSL shows that given enough preparation, a lot of Europeans can create very strong customized builds for their opponents and win decisively, the GSL World Championships showed that with little preparation they still can get slaughtered just as easily. I do agree almost nobody in the NA server could compete in Code S though.

I actually disagree. Given enough time, I think that a Kiwikaki, a TT1, a Major/Terran/Kitty, an Incontrol, a Tyler, a Drewbie etc. could all compete at least in code A. They would have to stay in korea for a LONG time though. They couldn't just fly over and compete in code S, although I bet a few europeans could.


Code A has no money, if you're going to be a perennial Code A all-star your better off putting your efforts elsewhere.
Kiwikaki, Terran, InControl could do Code A well. Not sure about the others you mentioned though to be honest.
Prev 1 108 109 110 111 112 116 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#76
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft460
JuggernautJason94
CosmosSc2 44
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5253
Artosis 661
Sexy 39
NaDa 22
Dota 2
monkeys_forever618
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1093
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox958
AZ_Axe137
PPMD32
Other Games
summit1g14973
Day[9].tv779
shahzam649
C9.Mang0272
ViBE76
Maynarde55
ROOTCatZ19
minikerr7
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick919
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 40
• davetesta32
• OhrlRock 3
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 28
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV969
• Noizen20
League of Legends
• Doublelift4477
Other Games
• Scarra881
• Day9tv779
• imaqtpie743
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 51m
Kung Fu Cup
10h 51m
Replay Cast
23h 51m
The PondCast
1d 9h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 23h
WardiTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.