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On June 24 2011 03:40 coL.drewbie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 02:09 woob wrote:
kinda bullshit that fanatic would throw a series like that.. not sending out your best players is just lame
kiwikaki ftw Their players were at dreamhack, and the EGMC admins set a date to play on... how is that fnatic's fault? Please try and learn the whole story before you flame Fnatic / coL ok? ty
"Our players are leaving for Dreamhack on Thursday, can we play the match a day earlier?"
hmm that seemed entirely too hard. I feel completely exhausted typing that out. You're right, there was nothing they could have done.
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Reading the sixjax manager's post, Fnatic wasn't secure in the playoffs until KawaiiRice took his first match (and KawaiiRice only took it 2-1). In that case, I don't think they would've purposefully scheduled on a bad date for themselves, as it would be gambling their playoffs spot in case one of their "sure win" matches went sour.
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The EGMC staff should allow the possibility for a deciding match to be played between Sixjax and Complexity given that there were no rules established prior for team acquisitions/roster changes. Complexity should be given the option to decline this match, a decision which would test their ethical fiber as a team. If they are the "better team", what do they have to lose?
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On June 24 2011 04:12 Ganjamaster wrote:
The EGMC staff should allow the possibility for a deciding match to be played between Sixjax and Complexity given that there were no rules established prior for team acquisitions/roster changes. Complexity should be given the option to decline this match, a decision which would test their ethical fiber as a team. If they are the "better team", what do they have to lose?
I don't think anyone ever made the argument that they are the "better team"
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On June 24 2011 04:12 Ganjamaster wrote:
The EGMC staff should allow the possibility for a deciding match to be played between Sixjax and Complexity given that there were no rules established prior for team acquisitions/roster changes. Complexity should be given the option to decline this match, a decision which would test their ethical fiber as a team. If they are the "better team", what do they have to lose?
I don't know what team you play for, but why would any team choose to play that hypothetical match? I'm glad you don't run a league.
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On June 24 2011 04:12 Ganjamaster wrote:
The EGMC staff should allow the possibility for a deciding match to be played between Sixjax and Complexity given that there were no rules established prior for team acquisitions/roster changes. Complexity should be given the option to decline this match, a decision which would test their ethical fiber as a team. If they are the "better team", what do they have to lose?
The admins came to a decision, they decided that the complexity roster will take ROOT's spot, because complexity absorbed ROOT. There doesn't need to be rules established prior, its a pretty simple situation...... like ed said, good thing you are not an admin LOL
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On June 24 2011 04:16 coL.edward wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 04:12 Ganjamaster wrote:
The EGMC staff should allow the possibility for a deciding match to be played between Sixjax and Complexity given that there were no rules established prior for team acquisitions/roster changes. Complexity should be given the option to decline this match, a decision which would test their ethical fiber as a team. If they are the "better team", what do they have to lose? I don't know what team you play for, but why would any team choose to play that hypothetical match? I'm glad you don't run a league.
I do not play for any team, but I have been watching this cup closely (they play at night, thats when I watch).
Because they have integrity, self-respect and more importantly, respect for the fans that deserve to see a fair and competitive tournament. Complexity was not in the tournament to begin with, the ruling allowing it to play in Root´s place is controversial at best (no ruleset established prior to tournament initiation).
If you believe your team is better than Sixjax, what do you have to lose since you will surely win? And in that case no one will be able to put in question the legitimacy of your playoff spot which is indeed questioned right now.
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On June 24 2011 04:28 Ganjamaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 04:16 coL.edward wrote:On June 24 2011 04:12 Ganjamaster wrote:
The EGMC staff should allow the possibility for a deciding match to be played between Sixjax and Complexity given that there were no rules established prior for team acquisitions/roster changes. Complexity should be given the option to decline this match, a decision which would test their ethical fiber as a team. If they are the "better team", what do they have to lose? I don't know what team you play for, but why would any team choose to play that hypothetical match? I'm glad you don't run a league. I do not play for any team, but I have been watching this cup closely (they play at night, thats when I watch). Because they have integrity, self-respect and more importantly, respect for the fans that deserve to see a fair and competitive tournament. Complexity was not in the tournament to begin with, the ruling allowing it to play in Root´s place is controversial at best (no ruleset established prior to tournament initiation). If you believe your team is better than Sixjax, what do you have to lose since you will surely win? And in that case no one will be able to put in question the legitimacy of your playoff spot which is indeed questioned right now.
Matchups play a huge part in team games, this bolted statement is your attempt to force a reaction and it's rather silly. I could just as easily say, if Sixjax really believes they're better than EG, why don't we throw them in as well, What if I think Sixjax got lucky!?(I don't). If they REALLY think their team is better than EG, why not play again, they'll surely win, right?
Awarding arbitrary rematches with the challenge of, "If you're really better, you'll just win again" is really dumb. Why should they have to? Why not have everyone from 3rd to 6th play again? I mean, if they're better they'll win again right? It's not that simple, the results should stand, arbitrary rematches are unfair.
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On June 24 2011 04:04 hydra21 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 03:40 coL.drewbie wrote:On June 24 2011 02:09 woob wrote:
kinda bullshit that fanatic would throw a series like that.. not sending out your best players is just lame
kiwikaki ftw Their players were at dreamhack, and the EGMC admins set a date to play on... how is that fnatic's fault? Please try and learn the whole story before you flame Fnatic / coL ok? ty "Our players are leaving for Dreamhack on Thursday, can we play the match a day earlier?" hmm that seemed entirely too hard. I feel completely exhausted typing that out. You're right, there was nothing they could have done.
Fenix just moved to Arizona and wasn't available to play, which is also the same reason he forfeited his NASL playoff game. IefNaij couldn't play earlier. Stop trying to assume things when you don't actually know anything that's going on behind the scenes.
If we played earlier than Thursday, we would have only had 2 players (me and KawaiiRice) instead of 4.
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On June 24 2011 04:28 Ganjamaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 04:16 coL.edward wrote:On June 24 2011 04:12 Ganjamaster wrote:
The EGMC staff should allow the possibility for a deciding match to be played between Sixjax and Complexity given that there were no rules established prior for team acquisitions/roster changes. Complexity should be given the option to decline this match, a decision which would test their ethical fiber as a team. If they are the "better team", what do they have to lose? I don't know what team you play for, but why would any team choose to play that hypothetical match? I'm glad you don't run a league. I do not play for any team, but I have been watching this cup closely (they play at night, thats when I watch). Because they have integrity, self-respect and more importantly, respect for the fans that deserve to see a fair and competitive tournament. Complexity was not in the tournament to begin with, the ruling allowing it to play in Root´s place is controversial at best (no ruleset established prior to tournament initiation). If you believe your team is better than Sixjax, what do you have to lose since you will surely win? And in that case no one will be able to put in question the legitimacy of your playoff spot which is indeed questioned right now.
dude.. if by the rules a team has advanced over another team, they have no obligation and nothing to prove by having to play a tiebreaker. For example, in tournaments higher level players often receive byes, get put into higher seeds, etc. If they are the higher level player shouldn't they "prove themselves" by playing through all the scrubs, a la MLG open bracket? of course not there's no reason to have to play more games when one has already earned a spot.
all in all Complexity has advanced according to the rules of EGMC, and though it is an awkward scenario they do not have any reason to doubt that they earned their spot. no one is claiming sixjax or col are better than one another; this is just one tournament.
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On June 24 2011 04:41 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 04:04 hydra21 wrote:On June 24 2011 03:40 coL.drewbie wrote:On June 24 2011 02:09 woob wrote:
kinda bullshit that fanatic would throw a series like that.. not sending out your best players is just lame
kiwikaki ftw Their players were at dreamhack, and the EGMC admins set a date to play on... how is that fnatic's fault? Please try and learn the whole story before you flame Fnatic / coL ok? ty "Our players are leaving for Dreamhack on Thursday, can we play the match a day earlier?" hmm that seemed entirely too hard. I feel completely exhausted typing that out. You're right, there was nothing they could have done. Fenix just moved to Arizona and wasn't available to play, which is also the same reason he forfeited his NASL playoff game. IefNaij couldn't play earlier. Stop trying to assume things when you don't actually know anything that's going on behind the scenes. If we played earlier than Thursday, we would have only had 2 players (me and KawaiiRice) instead of 4.
I guess it was just a bum-fuck of a time for the players on Fnatic, still very rough to see as a spectator(not specifically just this match) but to see some of the walkovers in general, such as during the Mouz match as well. It's understandable that people get slightly annoyed.
But you're right, we don't know the exact situation and circumstances of your players at the time so it's not really fair to go ape-shit. I just hope you guys can get your team together for future matches. When Fnatic is there, they're really a team to be reckoned with so it's a shame for spectators and fans to see walkover matches.
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On June 24 2011 04:43 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 04:28 Ganjamaster wrote:On June 24 2011 04:16 coL.edward wrote:On June 24 2011 04:12 Ganjamaster wrote:
The EGMC staff should allow the possibility for a deciding match to be played between Sixjax and Complexity given that there were no rules established prior for team acquisitions/roster changes. Complexity should be given the option to decline this match, a decision which would test their ethical fiber as a team. If they are the "better team", what do they have to lose? I don't know what team you play for, but why would any team choose to play that hypothetical match? I'm glad you don't run a league. I do not play for any team, but I have been watching this cup closely (they play at night, thats when I watch). Because they have integrity, self-respect and more importantly, respect for the fans that deserve to see a fair and competitive tournament. Complexity was not in the tournament to begin with, the ruling allowing it to play in Root´s place is controversial at best (no ruleset established prior to tournament initiation). If you believe your team is better than Sixjax, what do you have to lose since you will surely win? And in that case no one will be able to put in question the legitimacy of your playoff spot which is indeed questioned right now. dude.. if by the rules a team has advanced over another team, they have no obligation and nothing to prove by having to play a tiebreaker. For example, in tournaments higher level players often receive byes, get put into higher seeds, etc. If they are the higher level player shouldn't they "prove themselves" by playing through all the scrubs, a la MLG open bracket? of course not there's no reason to have to play more games when one has already earned a spot. all in all Complexity has advanced according to the rules of EGMC, and though it is an awkward scenario they do not have any reason to doubt that they earned their spot. no one is claiming sixjax or col are better than one another; this is just one tournament.
My point is that CoL earned nothing since CoL was not even in the tournament to begin with as they came in to substitute ROOT. But ROOT won many of their games with players who were never party of CoL (Kiwikaki, Slush). This happened NOT BECAUSE OF THE RULES, but because the EGMC admins decided it was the proper course of action (they are entirely within their right to take any decision they see fit). This decision ended up being very negative fo Sixjax. Given they already made a decision and would be wrong to go back on it, they should give CoL and Sixjax the option of playing a tiebreaker if they both agree, since it would be fair to Sixjax who got effectively shafted by the admin decision of transferring ROOTs wins to CoL in the conditions stated prior.
It is just because of this particular situation that I think a tiebreaker is in order. In no way do I disagree with the seeding system of any other tournament. I just think that the fates of teams should be decided in the game and not by an arbitrary decision by admins when there is no ruling established for these kinds of scenarios.
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On June 24 2011 04:58 Ganjamaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 04:43 EchelonTee wrote:On June 24 2011 04:28 Ganjamaster wrote:On June 24 2011 04:16 coL.edward wrote:On June 24 2011 04:12 Ganjamaster wrote:
The EGMC staff should allow the possibility for a deciding match to be played between Sixjax and Complexity given that there were no rules established prior for team acquisitions/roster changes. Complexity should be given the option to decline this match, a decision which would test their ethical fiber as a team. If they are the "better team", what do they have to lose? I don't know what team you play for, but why would any team choose to play that hypothetical match? I'm glad you don't run a league. I do not play for any team, but I have been watching this cup closely (they play at night, thats when I watch). Because they have integrity, self-respect and more importantly, respect for the fans that deserve to see a fair and competitive tournament. Complexity was not in the tournament to begin with, the ruling allowing it to play in Root´s place is controversial at best (no ruleset established prior to tournament initiation). If you believe your team is better than Sixjax, what do you have to lose since you will surely win? And in that case no one will be able to put in question the legitimacy of your playoff spot which is indeed questioned right now. dude.. if by the rules a team has advanced over another team, they have no obligation and nothing to prove by having to play a tiebreaker. For example, in tournaments higher level players often receive byes, get put into higher seeds, etc. If they are the higher level player shouldn't they "prove themselves" by playing through all the scrubs, a la MLG open bracket? of course not there's no reason to have to play more games when one has already earned a spot. all in all Complexity has advanced according to the rules of EGMC, and though it is an awkward scenario they do not have any reason to doubt that they earned their spot. no one is claiming sixjax or col are better than one another; this is just one tournament. My point is that CoL earned nothing since CoL was not even in the tournament to begin with as they came in to substitute ROOT. But ROOT won many of their games with players who were never party of CoL (Kiwikaki, Slush). This happened NOT BECAUSE OF THE RULES, but because the EGMC admins decided it was the proper course of action (they are entirely within their right to take any decision they see fit). This decision ended up being very negative fo Sixjax. Given they already made a decision and would be wrong to go back on it, they should give CoL and Sixjax the option of playing a tiebreaker if they both agree, since it would be fair to Sixjax who got effectively shafted by the admin decision of transferring ROOTs wins to CoL in the conditions stated prior. It is just because of this particular situation that I think a tiebreaker is in order. In no way do I disagree with the seeding system of any other tournament. I just think that the fates of teams should be decided in the game and not by an arbitrary decision by admins when there is no ruling established for these kinds of scenarios.
Alright, let's say they play the rematch and Sixjax wins by somehow beating coL's 2v2 team, then what? That's an unfair rematch advantage, the 2v2 team is the same, why do they get that advantage that no other team gets? Would you just want the single matches replayed? Why give Sixjax the advantage, they're not the only team that lost to ROOT. What about games where someone other than Kiwikaki won, but Kiwikaki lost, should Complexity get those points back and get a chance those points back to see if they can come up ahead? No matter what you do, someone is going to get screwed...
This way, it's just circumstance rather than a direct screw-over, Sixjax didn't qualify based on their performance in this case, changing the switch for Complexity at this point would be a royal dick move, this stipulation should have been made when they were offered the replacement spot, not when they're qualified for the playoffs.
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I think it was a fair decision to give Root's win to complexity. Its Sixjax's fault for not securing their playoff spot during the league. They depended on other teams to win/lose and it cost them, even though the odds were looking in their favor, they cant blame Fnatic for not putting their best line up.
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On June 24 2011 05:06 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 04:58 Ganjamaster wrote:On June 24 2011 04:43 EchelonTee wrote:On June 24 2011 04:28 Ganjamaster wrote:On June 24 2011 04:16 coL.edward wrote:On June 24 2011 04:12 Ganjamaster wrote:
The EGMC staff should allow the possibility for a deciding match to be played between Sixjax and Complexity given that there were no rules established prior for team acquisitions/roster changes. Complexity should be given the option to decline this match, a decision which would test their ethical fiber as a team. If they are the "better team", what do they have to lose? I don't know what team you play for, but why would any team choose to play that hypothetical match? I'm glad you don't run a league. I do not play for any team, but I have been watching this cup closely (they play at night, thats when I watch). Because they have integrity, self-respect and more importantly, respect for the fans that deserve to see a fair and competitive tournament. Complexity was not in the tournament to begin with, the ruling allowing it to play in Root´s place is controversial at best (no ruleset established prior to tournament initiation). If you believe your team is better than Sixjax, what do you have to lose since you will surely win? And in that case no one will be able to put in question the legitimacy of your playoff spot which is indeed questioned right now. dude.. if by the rules a team has advanced over another team, they have no obligation and nothing to prove by having to play a tiebreaker. For example, in tournaments higher level players often receive byes, get put into higher seeds, etc. If they are the higher level player shouldn't they "prove themselves" by playing through all the scrubs, a la MLG open bracket? of course not there's no reason to have to play more games when one has already earned a spot. all in all Complexity has advanced according to the rules of EGMC, and though it is an awkward scenario they do not have any reason to doubt that they earned their spot. no one is claiming sixjax or col are better than one another; this is just one tournament. My point is that CoL earned nothing since CoL was not even in the tournament to begin with as they came in to substitute ROOT. But ROOT won many of their games with players who were never party of CoL (Kiwikaki, Slush). This happened NOT BECAUSE OF THE RULES, but because the EGMC admins decided it was the proper course of action (they are entirely within their right to take any decision they see fit). This decision ended up being very negative fo Sixjax. Given they already made a decision and would be wrong to go back on it, they should give CoL and Sixjax the option of playing a tiebreaker if they both agree, since it would be fair to Sixjax who got effectively shafted by the admin decision of transferring ROOTs wins to CoL in the conditions stated prior. It is just because of this particular situation that I think a tiebreaker is in order. In no way do I disagree with the seeding system of any other tournament. I just think that the fates of teams should be decided in the game and not by an arbitrary decision by admins when there is no ruling established for these kinds of scenarios. Alright, let's say they play the rematch and Sixjax wins by somehow beating coL's 2v2 team, then what? That's an unfair rematch advantage, the 2v2 team is the same, why do they get that advantage that no other team gets? Would you just want the single matches replayed? Why give Sixjax the advantage, they're not the only team that lost to ROOT. What about games where someone other than Kiwikaki won, but Kiwikaki lost, should Complexity get those points back and get a chance those points back to see if they can come up ahead? No matter what you do, someone is going to get screwed... This way, it's just circumstance rather than a direct screw-over, Sixjax didn't qualify based on their performance in this case, changing the switch for Complexity at this point would be a royal dick move, this stipulation should have been made when they were offered the replacement spot, not when they're qualified for the playoffs.
No, because the other teams are not tied with Complexity. It is this tie, in my opinion, that makes sixjax eligible for a tiebraker. If the other teams were tied with CoL, then by all means they should also have a tiebraker.
It is most likely that the admins did not foresee the possibility of a playoff spot tie including CoL when they took that decision, now is the time for them to make it right by at least offering the possibility of a tiebreaker to be played. It does not have to be team on team, it could just be a Bo7 ACE match or whatever format they prefer to make it feasible.
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On June 24 2011 04:41 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 04:04 hydra21 wrote:On June 24 2011 03:40 coL.drewbie wrote:On June 24 2011 02:09 woob wrote:
kinda bullshit that fanatic would throw a series like that.. not sending out your best players is just lame
kiwikaki ftw Their players were at dreamhack, and the EGMC admins set a date to play on... how is that fnatic's fault? Please try and learn the whole story before you flame Fnatic / coL ok? ty "Our players are leaving for Dreamhack on Thursday, can we play the match a day earlier?" hmm that seemed entirely too hard. I feel completely exhausted typing that out. You're right, there was nothing they could have done. Fenix just moved to Arizona and wasn't available to play, which is also the same reason he forfeited his NASL playoff game. IefNaij couldn't play earlier. Stop trying to assume things when you don't actually know anything that's going on behind the scenes. If we played earlier than Thursday, we would have only had 2 players (me and KawaiiRice) instead of 4.
Your story literally makes no sense.
Why couldn't Sen play?
He had to leave to go to dreamhack on thursday
Well why couldn't he play a day earlier?
because Fenix was in Arizona
What does that have to do with anything?
lefNaij is on the team yet he can only play 1 hour a week
Uh huh...err... What about Nightend? Why couldn't he play a match earlier in the week?
He's new
Why does that matter?
*cricket*
Wait, wtf is going on?
Stop pretending you are able to comprehend the super complicated shit that happens that you will never know about...
What about TT1?
He's in the twilight zone... and there's really bad lag from the Twilight zone...
This is really strange. Why did everything have to be played on the same day? You had a week why didn't you just schedule matches for when players were available?
We didn't get favorable omens from the gods until Thursday
Ok time out.... So what you're saying is Sen couldn't play earlier because he magically no longer exists... NightEnd couldn't play earlier because he too magically no longer exists...Fenix couldn't play the ace because even though he knew an ace match had to be played since he was in the losing 2v2 he figured I am just going to log off screw my team... and you thought oh well I'm just the team manager I can't do anything about that... and Kawaii was playing a match against destiny for something else, and because the apocalypse was coming after that match everyone would be dead and he wouldn't be able to play the match... so you had to play. That about right?
User was warned for this post
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On June 24 2011 05:19 Xeris wrote:
You're correct!
Glad we cleared that up :D
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On June 24 2011 05:19 Xeris wrote:
You're correct!
LOL he needs a schedule of all fnatic's players lives before he will believe u xeris TT
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On June 24 2011 05:14 Ganjamaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 05:06 Mordiford wrote:On June 24 2011 04:58 Ganjamaster wrote:On June 24 2011 04:43 EchelonTee wrote:On June 24 2011 04:28 Ganjamaster wrote:On June 24 2011 04:16 coL.edward wrote:On June 24 2011 04:12 Ganjamaster wrote:
The EGMC staff should allow the possibility for a deciding match to be played between Sixjax and Complexity given that there were no rules established prior for team acquisitions/roster changes. Complexity should be given the option to decline this match, a decision which would test their ethical fiber as a team. If they are the "better team", what do they have to lose? I don't know what team you play for, but why would any team choose to play that hypothetical match? I'm glad you don't run a league. I do not play for any team, but I have been watching this cup closely (they play at night, thats when I watch). Because they have integrity, self-respect and more importantly, respect for the fans that deserve to see a fair and competitive tournament. Complexity was not in the tournament to begin with, the ruling allowing it to play in Root´s place is controversial at best (no ruleset established prior to tournament initiation). If you believe your team is better than Sixjax, what do you have to lose since you will surely win? And in that case no one will be able to put in question the legitimacy of your playoff spot which is indeed questioned right now. dude.. if by the rules a team has advanced over another team, they have no obligation and nothing to prove by having to play a tiebreaker. For example, in tournaments higher level players often receive byes, get put into higher seeds, etc. If they are the higher level player shouldn't they "prove themselves" by playing through all the scrubs, a la MLG open bracket? of course not there's no reason to have to play more games when one has already earned a spot. all in all Complexity has advanced according to the rules of EGMC, and though it is an awkward scenario they do not have any reason to doubt that they earned their spot. no one is claiming sixjax or col are better than one another; this is just one tournament. My point is that CoL earned nothing since CoL was not even in the tournament to begin with as they came in to substitute ROOT. But ROOT won many of their games with players who were never party of CoL (Kiwikaki, Slush). This happened NOT BECAUSE OF THE RULES, but because the EGMC admins decided it was the proper course of action (they are entirely within their right to take any decision they see fit). This decision ended up being very negative fo Sixjax. Given they already made a decision and would be wrong to go back on it, they should give CoL and Sixjax the option of playing a tiebreaker if they both agree, since it would be fair to Sixjax who got effectively shafted by the admin decision of transferring ROOTs wins to CoL in the conditions stated prior. It is just because of this particular situation that I think a tiebreaker is in order. In no way do I disagree with the seeding system of any other tournament. I just think that the fates of teams should be decided in the game and not by an arbitrary decision by admins when there is no ruling established for these kinds of scenarios. Alright, let's say they play the rematch and Sixjax wins by somehow beating coL's 2v2 team, then what? That's an unfair rematch advantage, the 2v2 team is the same, why do they get that advantage that no other team gets? Would you just want the single matches replayed? Why give Sixjax the advantage, they're not the only team that lost to ROOT. What about games where someone other than Kiwikaki won, but Kiwikaki lost, should Complexity get those points back and get a chance those points back to see if they can come up ahead? No matter what you do, someone is going to get screwed... This way, it's just circumstance rather than a direct screw-over, Sixjax didn't qualify based on their performance in this case, changing the switch for Complexity at this point would be a royal dick move, this stipulation should have been made when they were offered the replacement spot, not when they're qualified for the playoffs. No, because the other teams are not tied with Complexity. It is this tie, in my opinion, that makes sixjax eligible for a tiebraker. If the other teams were tied with CoL, then by all means they should also have a tiebraker. It is most likely that the admins did not foresee the possibility of a playoff spot tie including CoL when they took that decision, now is the time for them to make it right by at least offering the possibility of a tiebreaker to be played. It does not have to be team on team, it could just be a Bo7 ACE match or whatever format they prefer to make it feasible.
its not a tie man, coL has 17 pts and sixjax has 16 ( this has been said about 5 times in the last couple pages, learn to read thx )
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EPT
