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On April 28 2011 21:20 babysimba wrote:
The reason why Alicia lost to that aggression so easily is because he did not build a wall in front of his natural. It might be a mindfk maneuver (cancel nexus 4wg), but losira just went ahead with the aggression anyway.
No it was because he went early stargate. 3gate sentry expand into stargate has massive trouble with roach/ling attacks, especially if you don't scout it and go phoenix (as Alicia did). Not surprisingly really, that build just has a serious lack of units to do actual DPS - until the voids/stalkers are online.
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On April 28 2011 21:18 Ezekyle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 21:15 Aristodemus wrote:On April 28 2011 21:13 BuzZoo wrote:
Like I said. Vastly superior. Because all zerg are godly whereas all protoss are noobs amirite? Well Alicia did just get ripped apart 2-0 in a matchup that heavily favours his race - whether it's due to metagame trends or actual balance issues is irrelevant. So in this case I think we can probably say that yes, Losira was by far the better player in this series.
The point is that the matchup never favored the Protoss race in the first place. It isn't the Protoss race fault that Zerg players took forever to come up with good strategies against Protoss.
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On April 28 2011 21:21 LightWireEX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 21:20 pdd wrote:
Artosis said rushing to DT is the way to counter this build. But how do you scout the build though? When you get hallucinate, scout with your phoenix and see if the Zerg is still on hatchery tech when his 2nd base is saturated. That should be a very good tell. Can some 1 summarize the build missed the games  .
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On April 28 2011 21:21 cyclone25 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 21:18 dubRa wrote:On April 28 2011 21:15 syllogism wrote:On April 28 2011 21:14 dubRa wrote:
Every zerg needs to watch this game They've been doing this build for weeks or a month now at least Ups sorry. But then why doesn't it work for others then Losira? Because there are Protoss players who know how to defend this build. You need a quick robo + immortal. If you go void ray you also need 2-3 cannons. This build was very popular on the EU server some weeks ago but everyone knows how to defend it now. I can give you replays with me doing it LOL
As zerg, you don't go for this build unless he is 1gate stargate expanding or 3gate expanding anyway.
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On April 28 2011 21:19 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 21:17 HolyArrow wrote:On April 28 2011 21:16 Ezekyle wrote:On April 28 2011 21:14 Mios wrote:
how is that possible to beat?
seems like you have to 4 gate or 3 gate pressure or the zerg econ gets way too far ahead Bahahahahahaha. And people say that Zergs are QQers... Psh. There are only a few people QQing here. Compare this to when a Zerg player loses to a Toss player in any LR thread and there's a pretty big difference. Don't fool yourself. You are fooling yourself too, the amount of zerg QQing here is very low, and it is always the sames, please don't generalize.
Me generalize? Hardly. There's truth behind the stereotype of Zerg players QQing the most, just as there is some truth behind any sort of stereotype.
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On April 28 2011 21:20 pdd wrote:
Artosis said rushing to DT is the way to counter this build. But how do you scout the build though?
DT rush is not the answer because it's a reactionnary build to the 3gate sentry expand. If you don't do this build it will not trigger the agression, the zerg will just drone and play defensively with a spore scrawler at the entrance.
Or maybe Artosis is talking about the build MC did in the final against July, fake 3gate expand DT with some sentries to trick your opponent, but if the zerg scoot the dark shrine you are screw.
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On April 28 2011 21:22 Sergeras wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 21:21 LightWireEX wrote:On April 28 2011 21:20 pdd wrote:
Artosis said rushing to DT is the way to counter this build. But how do you scout the build though? When you get hallucinate, scout with your phoenix and see if the Zerg is still on hatchery tech when his 2nd base is saturated. That should be a very good tell. Can some 1 summarize the build missed the games .
It's basic heavy ling/roach pressure on a 3gate expand build from Toss. Really hard to hold.
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On April 28 2011 21:21 LightWireEX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 21:20 pdd wrote:
Artosis said rushing to DT is the way to counter this build. But how do you scout the build though? When you get hallucinate, scout with your phoenix and see if the Zerg is still on hatchery tech when his 2nd base is saturated. That should be a very good tell.
Well Losira made evo chamber before attack so he would be prapared vs. DTs.
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Things are looking good for Nestea to win another GSL.
Sad about Alicia though , Killer pretty much only chance for protoss now, and I don't think hes good enough to win against TOP/Nada.
Funny how zergs praise this roach speedling push as ingenious but 6 gate pushes are all-in. 2 pushes with low tier units, momentarily cutting workers after getting on 2 base, meant to punish/kill other FE builds. Not saying anything about balance, but funny double standards...
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On April 28 2011 21:21 DZK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 21:18 zocktol wrote:
Yeah he was definitly QQing and not asking for advic, at least it seems to me to be that way.
I am wondering myself, i do not think, that a DTrush is the right answer to that build.
Anybody got any idea how to stop this early aggression, without falling behind in economy? I'm not 100% sure but i think he'd of been fine had his first voidray been in the fight from the beginning and if he had made another voidray instead of a phoenix(which I guess would require him scouting the push in the first place).
Might be but Void Rays seem rather bad against Zerglings. Maybe wall, get a quick Robo and chrono out an Immortal and warp in Zealots to deal with the Zerglings?
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Alicia's build definitely was not risky. Three gate sentry expand is the safest opening you can do against zerg, assuming that we all acknowledge that one-basing isn't viable.
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On April 28 2011 21:18 zocktol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 21:16 Ezekyle wrote:On April 28 2011 21:14 Mios wrote:
how is that possible to beat?
seems like you have to 4 gate or 3 gate pressure or the zerg econ gets way too far ahead Bahahahahahaha. And people say that Zergs are QQers... Yeah he was definitly QQing and not asking for advic, at least it seems to me to be that way. I am wondering myself, i do not think, that a DTrush is the right answer to that build. Anybody got any idea how to stop this early aggression, without falling behind in economy?
Throwing up more cannons maybe? With better forcefields, Alicia could have held it I think..
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On April 28 2011 21:23 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 21:21 LightWireEX wrote:On April 28 2011 21:20 pdd wrote:
Artosis said rushing to DT is the way to counter this build. But how do you scout the build though? When you get hallucinate, scout with your phoenix and see if the Zerg is still on hatchery tech when his 2nd base is saturated. That should be a very good tell. Well Losira made evo chamber before attack so he would be prapared vs. DTs.
Yes, but not his army. If there's a DT slicing away at all of your roaches your instinct is to run away, not continue pushing.
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It would be cool if Nestea won another GSL. Then he'd cement himself up there with MC and MVP as also having 2 GSL wins, and everything will be right in the world.
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On April 28 2011 21:19 Zuor wrote:
Nestea has a great chance of reaching the finals tbh. Crushing ZvZ until the RO4. Hoping for a Nada vs Nestea finals. ^_^
Haha that's my exact bet in my pool's brackets.
On April 28 2011 21:19 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Lol lets compare zerg qq to toss qq!
Zerg QQ if a zerg looses to a toss its 50+ pages of pure whine in the LR threads
Toss looses you find one or two comments of QQ
Don't make blind ridiculous statements...
Anyway GG by Losira! maybe now zergs will stop QQing about balance...
I hate to add fuel to the fire (for the record, I don't even play Zerg), but the problem with that statement is that every time a Zerg wins against another race, we get 50+ pages of pure whine about Zerg whine.......
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On April 28 2011 21:21 LightWireEX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 21:20 pdd wrote:
Artosis said rushing to DT is the way to counter this build. But how do you scout the build though? When you get hallucinate, scout with your phoenix and see if the Zerg is still on hatchery tech when his 2nd base is saturated. That should be a very good tell.
I dunno, a straight up dt rush is cheesy and if you wait until hallu you can't switch to dt tech in time.
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On April 28 2011 21:22 SKtheAnathema wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 21:20 usethis2 wrote:
Disappointing games, to be honest. Not sure why they got so high recommendation mark. I like both the players but this wasn't exactly what I hoped for. WTF Alicia. How can someone be so good at PvT yet seemingly hopeless in PvZ? I don't get it.
he's not hopeless in pvz.. his last 3 wins before this match were against the best zergs ever. losira just had an outstanding punishing build against him this time. they were good matches because they were very educational for zerg
vs Nestea - 4 gate against a greedy build from Nestea
vs Losira (GSTL) - Losira tried to all-in baneling bust him
vs Zenio - imba map
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On April 28 2011 21:23 Gondlem wrote:
Alicia's build definitely was not risky. Three gate sentry expand is the safest opening you can do against zerg, assuming that we all acknowledge that one-basing isn't viable.
The 3gate part wasn't risky, no. The blind followup of stargate-phoenix was very, very risky.
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Probably this means that protoss will have to be less greedy early game.. which will give zerg more advantage going into the late game. I think 3gate sentry expand with no cannon (or a very late cannon), as Alicia did in the first game is just way too greedy. It's sad to see him go out because he's a really good player and he didn't really get a chance to show his skill apart from in desperate defending.
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Well, Alicia didn't see that attack coming at all. The voidray wasn't even out (and not crono boosted) when the attack started. I don't know if he could have hold it anyway but all the bad things came together.
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EPT
