|
Arguing and whining in this thread will be met with the hammer. Please enjoy the games and keep this thread on track! |
On April 25 2011 06:45 sqrt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:41 nRoot wrote:
Why are there no pools for recommended games in all the TSL LR threads? >:
For the same reason there are no Recommended Games poll in GSL threads when mods do them. People are voting based on pure biased or other irrelevant stuff, so the mods decided to put games they recommend in the Recommended Games section.
And the mod's recommendations are not biased? :/
I agreed that a lot of votes are stupid but with a little 'experience' you can still get an idea if the games are worth watching or not. In this case, 'bad' information can still be usefull to some extend, while complete lack of any information (as in not mentinóning the games at all) can never be usefull
just make a section for the mods recommendation and one for the normal pools please
|
On April 25 2011 06:45 PhyreHazard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:40 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:34 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:31 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:29 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:27 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote:
What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol. I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU. My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective? Probably, but they're still human. I give them a break. I also don't take everything they say as scripture. And I also enjoy their show. It's possible to do all 3 at once. It's a good show that's not perfect and it features opinions of a group of 4 humans. Nothing more. It's easy pal, you don't need to be super-human, just invite someone who really follows the EU scene.. not just US players who spent half the time whining about balance and who have no time to follow smaller tournaments. Why are you so bent over this, sotg is exactly what it is, pros sharing their opinions.
Then it should be called 'USA PROs sharing their opinions'... really since when calling for more objectivity is a bad thing? I am not against them sharing their opinions, but if what they are saying is causing so much misinformation in the community, shouldn't they do their homework first?
|
On April 25 2011 06:42 caretony wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:32 David451 wrote:On April 25 2011 06:20 caretony wrote:On April 25 2011 06:18 David451 wrote:On April 25 2011 06:17 Manimal_pro wrote:
cmon david kim, make hellions 75 minerals so we can have hellion tank vs toss again! i am so tired of medivacs and vikings right now Blue flame hellions are gosu versus toss. They hard counter their only mineral dump. Blue flame helions don't counter zealots... only thing they really counter is workers and with a cannon or spine they don't even do this anymore. Helions are killed waaay too fast in a real fight to deal with the zealots Zealots are light units and clump up. Because hellions are anti-light splash units, their strength over zealots increases as the number of zealots and hellions gets larger. 10 blue flame hellions versus 10 chargelots is just gross. They should not be getting killed that fast in a real fight, because they can kite away from anything that can hit them. In a real fight you can't kite zealots... Also zealots are produced much faster, to produce helions at a reasonable rate you need a costly factory and add on...
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because I have no problem kiting zealots in a real fight. The rest of my mech army should be positioned beforehand. And sure if you refuse to make production buildings then yeah they'll make more zealots...
|
On April 25 2011 06:54 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:45 PhyreHazard wrote:On April 25 2011 06:40 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:34 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:31 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:29 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:27 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote:
What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol. I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU. My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective? Probably, but they're still human. I give them a break. I also don't take everything they say as scripture. And I also enjoy their show. It's possible to do all 3 at once. It's a good show that's not perfect and it features opinions of a group of 4 humans. Nothing more. It's easy pal, you don't need to be super-human, just invite someone who really follows the EU scene.. not just US players who spent half the time whining about balance and who have no time to follow smaller tournaments. Why are you so bent over this, sotg is exactly what it is, pros sharing their opinions. Then it should be called 'USA PROs sharing their opinions'... really since when calling for more objectivity is a bad thing? I am not against them sharing their opinions, but if what they are saying is causing so much misinformation in the community, shouldn't they do their homework first?
They've had TLO and Jinro on the show. Stop complaining.
They want a person who knows the game's ins and outs, it's not a news channel, or a top 10 list.. In fact the segments where specific players are discussed, or upcoming tournament results are discussed are fairly small. It's like 3 minutes in a 1+ hour show.
|
On April 25 2011 06:18 Lennon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:16 YoungNeil wrote:On April 25 2011 06:10 FliedLice wrote:On April 25 2011 06:07 YoungNeil wrote:On April 25 2011 06:05 FliedLice wrote:On April 25 2011 06:05 damorphy wrote:On April 25 2011 05:58 LetoAtreides82 wrote:
Hasu's pretty good but Naniwa will roll over him easily. Yeah like cruncher would be rolled over as well  . Or like HuK rolled over Hasu  I don't think anybody was expecting that, really. HuK was probably considered a slight favourite, but everybody had already seen too much of his PvP to be confident. Hasu had a pretty strong reputation in PvP coming in as well, so I don't think many people were too surprised about the outcome. I was expecting a 2-1 in either direction, personally. I said that it was relatively even all the time but.... This was the liquibet for that match: TLAF-Liquid`HuK 89% (6860 : 860) Wow. I didn't realize it was that one-sided. Maybe that was the result of a lot of hopeful fanboys. =P (Or the fact that Hasu was relatively unknown outside of Europe, and especially Germany.) I voted for HuK, but if anybody had asked me I'd have said that it was far from a sure thing. Without my Canadian bias, perhaps I would have voted for Hasu. Everyone in the WC3 scene knows Hasu is a big name so labelling him "unknown" outside of Germany is false.
Everybody had been making a big deal of HuK since he won MLG Raleigh, and even more so after he joined Team Liquid and went to Korea. Hasu may not have been truly unknown, but I feel perfectly comfortable saying that compared to HuK, he had a very small share of the spotlight.
|
god could you stop talking about balance?
thorzain smashed MC 3-2 - and thorzain is rly not on top of everything, although he played rly well
Hasu simply played way better than boxer - boxer wasnt able to apply any pressure before going into macro lategame - thats not his strengh at all as we know.
MC played when he was in europe btw - if he wouldve been in korea at that time, thorzains win would obv. be meaningless cause of the "huge imba wtf i cannot move a unit" latency...
Believe it or not - the games wouldve gone into hasus favor (may it be 3-0 or 3-1...) in LAN as well.
Saying hasuobs is a bad player or "toss is imba vs terran" is simply Boxer-Fanboyism - not more and not less.
|
On April 25 2011 06:50 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:48 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:43 Euronyme wrote:On April 25 2011 06:40 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:34 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:31 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:29 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:27 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote:
What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol. I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU. My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective? Probably, but they're still human. I give them a break. I also don't take everything they say as scripture. And I also enjoy their show. It's possible to do all 3 at once. It's a good show that's not perfect and it features opinions of a group of 4 humans. Nothing more. It's easy pal, you don't need to be super-human, just invite someone who really follows the EU scene.. not just US players who spent half the time whining about balance and who have no time to follow smaller tournaments. Well the problem is that there's like... 1 progamer from the UK, and the rest are faily uncomfortable with English. Sure they can all speak decent English, but often times not very freely. They don't need to be pro players. They've already stated that they're not gonna bring in a cohost who's just some random master level guy, as it's a whole different thing when it comes to tournaments and pro level of play. Things work in the highest level that doesn't work on the ladder, and most stuff that works on the ladder doesn't work in pro level of play. TLO is a good choice though imo. He's very unbiased obviously, and he plays both zerg and terran back and forth, which balances out the protoss heavy panel 
It would depend on the type of discussion.. for balance discussions, well of course pro player's opinions are very important... the thing is, the show follows mostly a Sport Center format.. where they ask each host their opinion about every tournament that occurred in the last 7 days... how and why they went the way they did... you really don't need to be a pro to answer those questions, you just need to know all the participant players really well, i.e. you need to follow the scene.
|
On April 25 2011 07:00 DiaBoLuS wrote:
god could you stop talking about balance?
thorzain smashed MC 3-2 - and thorzain is rly not on top of everything, although he played rly well
Hasu simply played way better than boxer - boxer wasnt able to apply any pressure before going into macro lategame - thats not his strengh at all as we know.
MC played when he was in europe btw - if he wouldve been in korea at that time, thorzains win would obv. be meaningless cause of the "huge imba wtf i cannot move a unit" latency...
Believe it or not - the games wouldve gone into hasus favor (may it be 3-0 or 3-1...) in LAN as well.
Saying hasuobs is a bad player or "toss is imba vs terran" is simply Boxer-Fanboyism - not more and not less.
Well none's talking about balance, you're probably 2 hours late, or maybe you're just a slow typer
It's all cool bro.
|
On April 25 2011 07:01 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:50 Euronyme wrote:On April 25 2011 06:48 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:43 Euronyme wrote:On April 25 2011 06:40 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:34 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:31 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:29 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:27 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote:
What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol. I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU. My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective? Probably, but they're still human. I give them a break. I also don't take everything they say as scripture. And I also enjoy their show. It's possible to do all 3 at once. It's a good show that's not perfect and it features opinions of a group of 4 humans. Nothing more. It's easy pal, you don't need to be super-human, just invite someone who really follows the EU scene.. not just US players who spent half the time whining about balance and who have no time to follow smaller tournaments. Well the problem is that there's like... 1 progamer from the UK, and the rest are faily uncomfortable with English. Sure they can all speak decent English, but often times not very freely. They don't need to be pro players. They've already stated that they're not gonna bring in a cohost who's just some random master level guy, as it's a whole different thing when it comes to tournaments and pro level of play. Things work in the highest level that doesn't work on the ladder, and most stuff that works on the ladder doesn't work in pro level of play. TLO is a good choice though imo. He's very unbiased obviously, and he plays both zerg and terran back and forth, which balances out the protoss heavy panel It would depend on the type of discussion.. for balance discussions, well of course pro player's opinions are very important... the thing is, the show follows mostly a Sport Center format.. where they ask each host their opinion about every tournament that occurred in the last 7 days... how and why they went the way they did... you really don't need to be a pro to answer those questions, you just need to know all the participant players really well, i.e. you need to follow the scene.
Well the hosts do a brilliant job (atleast imo) of telling how and why things went as they went.. They just say they're surprised when a relatively unknown player who's won like 1 viking cup beats two GSL champions and the old TSL champion.
It's not like it's hindering their analysis in any way. They can still discuss what was showed in the games, even though they can't really comment on what went down in the viking cup.
Speaking of Thorzain ofcourse as an example.
|
On April 25 2011 07:00 YoungNeil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:18 Lennon wrote:On April 25 2011 06:16 YoungNeil wrote:On April 25 2011 06:10 FliedLice wrote:On April 25 2011 06:07 YoungNeil wrote:On April 25 2011 06:05 FliedLice wrote:On April 25 2011 06:05 damorphy wrote:On April 25 2011 05:58 LetoAtreides82 wrote:
Hasu's pretty good but Naniwa will roll over him easily. Yeah like cruncher would be rolled over as well . Or like HuK rolled over Hasu I don't think anybody was expecting that, really. HuK was probably considered a slight favourite, but everybody had already seen too much of his PvP to be confident. Hasu had a pretty strong reputation in PvP coming in as well, so I don't think many people were too surprised about the outcome. I was expecting a 2-1 in either direction, personally. I said that it was relatively even all the time but.... This was the liquibet for that match: TLAF-Liquid`HuK 89% (6860 : 860) Wow. I didn't realize it was that one-sided. Maybe that was the result of a lot of hopeful fanboys. =P (Or the fact that Hasu was relatively unknown outside of Europe, and especially Germany.) I voted for HuK, but if anybody had asked me I'd have said that it was far from a sure thing. Without my Canadian bias, perhaps I would have voted for Hasu. Everyone in the WC3 scene knows Hasu is a big name so labelling him "unknown" outside of Germany is false. Everybody had been making a big deal of HuK since he won MLG Raleigh, and even more so after he joined Team Liquid and went to Korea. Hasu may not have been truly unknown, but I feel perfectly comfortable saying that compared to HuK, he had a very small share of the spotlight.
Being in the spotlight =/= seeing the players PLAY and comparing their skill.
Look at the games they play, watch their replays and how good they are.
You guys see things like
- He was a BW legend
- He was/is in korea
- He won xyz tourney (not seeing HOW and vs WHOM they did)
Over the actual games they played - how their playstyles are in the exact matchups etc.
this is why HuK vs HasuObs was a clear 50/50 match to me for example - and i was pretty sure hasuobs should take out Boxer as well.
But i also know, that the final will most likely be Kas vs Naniwa.
|
Some more detail into this Thor/Hellion argument over mass marauder late game...
1) If you take HP * DPS / cost... the Thor is the 2nd best mobile unit in the game at 37.5...for comparison ultras are best at 41. Marauders are 16.8 (no stim...but even with stim, Thors are better)
2) In late game, Thors cut through armor and shield upgrades. So say they do 30 damage to stalkers and the stalker gets a shield upgrade, the upgrade only reduce damage to 29...long story short is that Thors makes toss defensive upgrades (and double forge) obsolete.
3) Thor armor is very effective vs toss because not only does it aid SCV healing trains, but very few toss units do ~20+ damage vs toss (when due to Blizzard rounding defensive upgrades become ineffective. Immortals do...but they can be taken out by strike cannons and mineral sink units like marines.
4) If Terran focuses on armory upgrades instead of engineering bay upgrades not only do they get one of the most cost effective attack upgrades in the game ( in terms of increased aggregate DPS / upgrade cost for Thors) but can save money by just purchasing armor and attack upgrades while Toss have to purchase attack/armor/shield upgrades to match.
5) Terran players are finding themselves 200 capped late game with money sitting in the bank. Thors cost only 6 supply which is far more supply efficient compared to marauders at 2 supply.
6) The advantage Toss has in late game is AOE and chargelots, but thors are largely immune to AOE and hellions are the hard counter to zealots (especially in large groups and with micro, but they are the counter)
7) The wonderful thing about marauders is their cost effectiveness...but when you factor in the indirect costs they need to survive in late game (engineering upgrades/stim/slow/medivacs/vikings for the colossi/ghosts for the HT's)...they're just not that effective...
8) Marauders are very gas cheap which means you need to produce a lot of SCV's to harvest a lot of minerals. With thors you don't need to produce as many SCV's which means you can push sooner, save minerals for non-SCV's,slow down expanding to a safer rate, and can save supply for getting to a better 200 max army.
9) Toss doesn't have a strong counter to Thor's...only voids/carriers and vikings can quickly take these out. Immortals again are good...but not until the strike cannon arrives .
10) Only weakness with Thor/rine/hellion is that it can take a little time to develop but using mineral sink units like hellions/rines/bunkers you can buy the time you need to produce enough Thors to iron our the shared cost of the armory and factory (especially on big maps). In fact because you don't need all the fancy upgrades and support units (viking/dropship/ghost) you can actually make a very slick timing push off of 2 base right when Toss is weak and trying to overtech while grabbing their third base.
|
On April 25 2011 06:58 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:54 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:45 PhyreHazard wrote:On April 25 2011 06:40 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:34 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:31 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:29 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:27 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote:
What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol. I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU. My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective? Probably, but they're still human. I give them a break. I also don't take everything they say as scripture. And I also enjoy their show. It's possible to do all 3 at once. It's a good show that's not perfect and it features opinions of a group of 4 humans. Nothing more. It's easy pal, you don't need to be super-human, just invite someone who really follows the EU scene.. not just US players who spent half the time whining about balance and who have no time to follow smaller tournaments. Why are you so bent over this, sotg is exactly what it is, pros sharing their opinions. Then it should be called 'USA PROs sharing their opinions'... really since when calling for more objectivity is a bad thing? I am not against them sharing their opinions, but if what they are saying is causing so much misinformation in the community, shouldn't they do their homework first? They've had TLO and Jinro on the show. Stop complaining. They want a person who knows the game's ins and outs, it's not a news channel, or a top 10 list.. In fact the segments where specific players are discussed, or upcoming tournament results are discussed are fairly small. It's like 3 minutes in a 1+ hour show.
As I said above, it's pretty much Sports Center format. Yeah, you need to know the game and have some pro to comment on the ins and outs of it, but more than anything you need someone who has a good idea of where the skills of each player is with respect to every other player, and for that you just need to watch them play.
|
Personally i'm just very happy that europe get such a good showing and maybe in the futur european players will get the respect they deserve.
|
On April 25 2011 07:06 Fungal Growth wrote:
8) Marauders are very gas cheap which means you need to produce a lot of SCV's to harvest a lot of minerals. With thors you don't need to produce as many SCV's which means you can push sooner, save minerals for non-SCV's,slow down expanding to a safer rate, and can save supply for getting to a better 200 max army.
exactly what thorzain did, he took his expansion really late compared to MC.
|
On April 25 2011 07:05 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:01 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:50 Euronyme wrote:On April 25 2011 06:48 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:43 Euronyme wrote:On April 25 2011 06:40 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:34 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:31 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:29 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:27 s4life wrote:
[quote]
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol. I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU. My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective? Probably, but they're still human. I give them a break. I also don't take everything they say as scripture. And I also enjoy their show. It's possible to do all 3 at once. It's a good show that's not perfect and it features opinions of a group of 4 humans. Nothing more. It's easy pal, you don't need to be super-human, just invite someone who really follows the EU scene.. not just US players who spent half the time whining about balance and who have no time to follow smaller tournaments. Well the problem is that there's like... 1 progamer from the UK, and the rest are faily uncomfortable with English. Sure they can all speak decent English, but often times not very freely. They don't need to be pro players. They've already stated that they're not gonna bring in a cohost who's just some random master level guy, as it's a whole different thing when it comes to tournaments and pro level of play. Things work in the highest level that doesn't work on the ladder, and most stuff that works on the ladder doesn't work in pro level of play. TLO is a good choice though imo. He's very unbiased obviously, and he plays both zerg and terran back and forth, which balances out the protoss heavy panel It would depend on the type of discussion.. for balance discussions, well of course pro player's opinions are very important... the thing is, the show follows mostly a Sport Center format.. where they ask each host their opinion about every tournament that occurred in the last 7 days... how and why they went the way they did... you really don't need to be a pro to answer those questions, you just need to know all the participant players really well, i.e. you need to follow the scene. Well the hosts do a brilliant job (atleast imo) of telling how and why things went as they went.. They just say they're surprised when a relatively unknown player who's won like 1 viking cup beats two GSL champions and the old TSL champion. It's not like it's hindering their analysis in any way. They can still discuss what was showed in the games, even though they can't really comment on what went down in the viking cup. Speaking of Thorzain ofcourse as an example.
Well, KAS was tearing the EU scene dude, he was not just winning a viking cup here and there.. the thing is, neither of those guys KNEW that, because they just don't have the time to go and watch EU tournaments. Not having information would obviously hinder anyone's analysis, and this was not exception.
|
On April 25 2011 06:12 Fungal Growth wrote:
Do think we are seeing somewhat antiquated tactics from Boxer. Marauders are good early/mid game units but not late game when toss catches up on tech and has AOE units out. What's the counter to this? Not tanks...their splash is ineffective vs the fatter stalkers who don't clump nor for the squirrely zealots who don't stay together like say marines. Key is Thors with blue flamers and marines as minerals sinks.
Thors > Colossi
Thors could care less about HT's and AOE units in general
Thors < Chargelots...but blue flamers >>> chargelots
Thors > Stalkers
Thors < Immortals ...but strike cannons >> immortals
Thors > Phoenix
Thors < Voids...but just a few vikings >>> voids
I predict this will be the future for terran vs toss in macro maps... Early pressure hellion/rine to bank time for the Thors to be produced...then once a critical mass of thors completes send in a thor army with SCV train to win the game (intermixed with hellion harassment of protoss expansions during the mid-late game). With the money saved from not producing so many dropshops, vikings (thors will take out colossi) and racks/engineering bay upgrades, terran can put their money into vehicle weapons and armor which are very sick upgrades.
I agree with you about mech but you're wrong about protoss counters to Thor, mass Thors just own everything but carriers due to low air damage vs armored and Carriers Massive prevents splash.
a +3 upgraded thor takes 50!!!! hits from a Zealot to kill him. Meanwhile 3 Thor one shot a Zealot.
Thor > Zealot
Thor > Colossus one shot with strike cannon
Thor > immortal on shot with cannon
Thor > lol @ VR who clump
Etc
Trust me I've done about 20 games now knowing my friend would go mass thor beforehand and got crushed.. 40 Zealots doesnt matter, 30 VR doesnt matter vs 8-10 Thor.
Here is the math from the man himself Thorzain
On April 11 2011 01:41 Thorzain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 01:30 Rabiator wrote:
Zealot damage: 8*2 = 16 damage ->
27 hits from a Zealot to kill a Thor without any upgrade difference
29 hits with 1 more armor for the Thor compared to the offensive Zealot upgrades
31 hits with 2 more armor for the Thor compared to the offensive Zealot upgrades
34 hits with 3 more armor for the Thor compared to the offensive Zealot upgrades
You can't count it as 8*2 - armor = damage. You must count it as (8-armor)*2 = damage. So armor upgrades are even better against zealots than what you described. 29 34 40 50. If the toss goes zealot heavy and without attack upgrades, Thor's health is effectively 552 if I upgraded +2 armor as I did vs Tyler.
|
On April 25 2011 06:10 MadVillain wrote:
Attacking units Toss can viably and offensively use against terran:
colossus 9 range
zealots w/charge
stalkers w/blink
sentries w/forcefields
void rays
dark templars, especially late game
high templars, you saw the series
dont see many immortals
For Terran against Toss:
marines w/stim
marauders w/stim + slow
ghosts
vikings (doesn't really count since they're useless if collosus aren't there)
mech is very risky and is incredibly slow, besides thors blow and tanks vs blink stalkers? lol
so 2 out of 3 tier 3 units that toss can build and none for terran
just seems like toss has way more options, especially late game
watch thorzain vs mc series =) there you can watch what Terran is up to!
|
On April 25 2011 06:46 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:33 Chicane wrote:So many scrubs in this thread... Who cares if you live in a closer vicinity than someone else to a specific player. Do you have nothing to be proud of in your own life that you have to take pride in such arbitrary things such as a nationalities results in a SC2 tournament, and make it public? The same thing goes for WC3 vs BW. If you preferred one game, why bother taking pride in a player that was a pro in that game winning... just appreciate the players as people. On April 25 2011 06:31 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:29 MrSexington wrote:On April 25 2011 06:27 s4life wrote:On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote:
What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol. I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU. My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective? What influence do they have over the results of the game? Hmmm.... Yeah... that's right. I think you just randomly typed something there trying to make sense but failed. Please RTFP before posting such dribble.
What did you have trouble comprehending?
|
Great games today, looking forward to the next round. Hasu was a beast.
Btw, why do people feel inclined to root for who they view as the favorites. My liquibets are usually the player I feel is less likely to win, it makes it more interesting.
I read something about a LAN in New York. Does anybody know if this is an event that people can attend, and if so, where it is?
(P.S. Protoss is obviously imbalanced because Naniwa beat Cruncher.... (;
|
On April 25 2011 06:13 allowicious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 06:12 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Rooting for Thorzain. Don't want to see a PvP Finals. It won't be a PvP finals regardless... the TvT and PvP semifinals are on opposite sides of the bracket, so the final is a guaranteed TvP
Semifinals on opposite sides of the bracket, you say?
How fascinating! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
