On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol.
Host more major tourneys casted in English then?....
We can't follow these random 1000$ KOTHs and stuff casted in german and expect to know every good European player.
The ESL has 3 tournaments a week with english casts, there are every single week lans in Europe with good players participating, all these lans have english casts. Problem is not casts in german, french, swedish or whatever, it's just that you follow more easily things on your side, just like we don't know every good american players (at least we did not knew them some months ago). Lots of reason for it, your own interest for people of your region and scheduled time of tournaments mainly. But definitely not a lack of streams in english ...
If you were to look up 'troll baiting' in a dictionary 20 years from now, you would probably see a picture of this thread (post-game). Don't feed the "x is better than y!!!11!" trolls please.
On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol.
Yup kinda agree to that. It might also have something to do with the wave of nationalism going through Europe right now as well T_T Most countries have a racist party with atleast 20%+ and some are even run by them. I don't really think there's a EU nationalism though, as there's alot of rivalry between the neighbouring countries, the east and the west etc etc. Simply put, we don't really have the flying eagles soaring the skies in the US that Nony and iNcontrol always talk about ^^ Also most people from the lesser known European countries are pretty desperate for attention :/ (I think I've been asked like 5 times when speaking on skype with different american friends if Sweden was a state in Germany)
On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol.
Host more major tourneys casted in English then?....
We can't follow these random 1000$ KOTHs and stuff casted in german and expect to know every good European player.
lol, kas has been one of the most consistent eu players since beta and same with hasuobs. you don't need an intricate knowledge of the european scene to see who is doing well or not, TL even does tournament roundup every month (iirc) so you can see who is winning all the cups and smaller lans. also most bigger euro tourneys are casted in english as well...
On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol.
I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU.
My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective?
Probably, but they're still human.
I give them a break. I also don't take everything they say as scripture. And I also enjoy their show.
It's possible to do all 3 at once. It's a good show that's not perfect and it features opinions of a group of 4 humans. Nothing more.
It's easy pal, you don't need to be super-human, just invite someone who really follows the EU scene.. not just US players who spent half the time whining about balance and who have no time to follow smaller tournaments.
On April 25 2011 06:17 Manimal_pro wrote: cmon david kim, make hellions 75 minerals so we can have hellion tank vs toss again! i am so tired of medivacs and vikings right now
Blue flame hellions are gosu versus toss. They hard counter their only mineral dump.
Blue flame helions don't counter zealots... only thing they really counter is workers and with a cannon or spine they don't even do this anymore.
Helions are killed waaay too fast in a real fight to deal with the zealots
Zealots are light units and clump up. Because hellions are anti-light splash units, their strength over zealots increases as the number of zealots and hellions gets larger. 10 blue flame hellions versus 10 chargelots is just gross. They should not be getting killed that fast in a real fight, because they can kite away from anything that can hit them.
In a real fight you can't kite zealots... Also zealots are produced much faster, to produce helions at a reasonable rate you need a costly factory and add on...
On April 25 2011 06:37 Euronyme wrote: I don't really think there's a EU nationalism though, as there's alot of rivalry between the neighbouring countries, the east and the west etc etc.
There is no rivalry Germany is involved in, because noone can rival us :D
On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol.
I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU.
My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective?
Probably, but they're still human.
I give them a break. I also don't take everything they say as scripture. And I also enjoy their show.
It's possible to do all 3 at once. It's a good show that's not perfect and it features opinions of a group of 4 humans. Nothing more.
It's easy pal, you don't need to be super-human, just invite someone who really follows the EU scene.. not just US players who spent half the time whining about balance and who have no time to follow smaller tournaments.
Well the problem is that there's like... 1 progamer from the UK, and the rest are faily uncomfortable with English. Sure they can all speak decent English, but often times not very freely.
On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol.
Host more major tourneys casted in English then?....
We can't follow these random 1000$ KOTHs and stuff casted in german and expect to know every good European player.
this
It's just natural that you know the local scene (of your timezone) the best. Kas didn't show anything outside of Europe or in any major tournament. So while most Europeans already knew that he has been the best eu terran for quite some time now, you have to see that it is not nearly as obvious to people who does not follow the EU scene so closely. HasuObs really stepped up his level of play just in the last few months, and nobody would have bet on ThorZain making the top 4 previous to TSL, even though he was kind of recognized with huge potential in the european scene.
If you know it better it's often wiser just to keep it for yourself, the unknowing will learn soon enough and actions speak louder than words.
On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol.
I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU.
My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective?
Probably, but they're still human.
I give them a break. I also don't take everything they say as scripture. And I also enjoy their show.
It's possible to do all 3 at once. It's a good show that's not perfect and it features opinions of a group of 4 humans. Nothing more.
It's easy pal, you don't need to be super-human, just invite someone who really follows the EU scene.. not just US players who spent half the time whining about balance and who have no time to follow smaller tournaments.
Why are you so bent over this, sotg is exactly what it is, pros sharing their opinions.
On April 25 2011 06:41 nRoot wrote: Why are there no pools for recommended games in all the TSL LR threads? >:
For the same reason there are no Recommended Games poll in GSL threads when mods do them. People are voting based on pure biased or other irrelevant stuff, so the mods decided to put games they recommend in the Recommended Games section.
On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
It's an individual competition, having a fellow countryman in the semi finals doesn't make you better at this game or better than (for example) any American. You have not more in common with them than to people outside of Europe, so please stop to adorn yourself with borrowed plumes and just grant the individual players the respect they deserve....
Great post. I always avoid LR threads following EU victories over KR players because the amount of smug that comes rolling in is ridiculous. I realize that it's simply a product of Korean dominance in BW, but it's still really annoying. Celebrating a player's win is one thing, but going around celebrating/gloating about how there are no Koreans in the semifinals just feels rather... hollow, I guess would be the right word. It's incredibly tiring seeing people base their reactions to match outcomes on the nationalities of the players.
On April 25 2011 06:33 Chicane wrote: So many scrubs in this thread...
Who cares if you live in a closer vicinity than someone else to a specific player. Do you have nothing to be proud of in your own life that you have to take pride in such arbitrary things such as a nationalities results in a SC2 tournament, and make it public? The same thing goes for WC3 vs BW. If you preferred one game, why bother taking pride in a player that was a pro in that game winning... just appreciate the players as people.
On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol.
I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU.
My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective?
What influence do they have over the results of the game? Hmmm....
Yeah... that's right.
I think you just randomly typed something there trying to make sense but failed. Please RTFP before posting such dribble.
On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol.
Host more major tourneys casted in English then?....
We can't follow these random 1000$ KOTHs and stuff casted in german and expect to know every good European player.
this
It's just natural that you know the local scene (of your timezone) the best. Kas didn't show anything outside of Europe or in any major tournament. So while most Europeans already knew that he has been the best eu terran for quite some time now, you have to see that it is not nearly as obvious to people who does not follow the EU scene so closely. HasuObs really stepped up his level of play just in the last few months, and nobody would have bet on ThorZain making the top 4 previous to TSL, even though he was kind of recognized with huge potential in the european scene.
If you know it better it's often wiser just to keep it for yourself, the unkowning will learn soon enough and actions speak louder than words.
Well I'm very much so European, and I had no clue Kas would be able to beat Nada, and I had no clue Thorzaine would go past the ro32. I think the biggest factor is that we don't see many Koreans in international tournaments, atleast not often enough to really form an opinion. Basically I think they were just a little overhyped.
On April 25 2011 06:02 Gaius Baltar wrote: A lot of people have been talking about how SC1 progamers, not WC3 progamers, are the ones succeeding at SC2.
Now let's take a look at this here TSL3. Korean SC1 players, European and NA SC1 players, and European WC3 players all entered. All that remains are four European WC3 players. Honestly, I think their macro has caught up, and perhaps their micro and creativity is starting to shine through.
I'm not saying they're dominant, just that they've truly arrived and are here to stay. Thoughts?
The biggest tournaments GSL, Assembly, Dreamhack, MLG are still almost exclusively dominated by BW players.
People have no sense of perspective, this is just one online tournament. The only WC3 player to really prove anything yet at the top level are Naniwa and maybe Moon.
I still think that in order to really prove you're at the top level you need to go to Korea and make something happen in the GSL. Like in all sports anyone can beat anyone on their day and especially when players play as many games as they do in SC2, but consistancy and winning major tournaments are what really seperate the best from the rest, which is why MC is so clearly the best player playing the game right now.
??? Dreamhack last year, IEM Europe, UGC, Gadget Show, Gathering, MLG Dallas (top 3 Warcraft players) Dreamhack this year had one WC3 player invite (Sjow) and u can hardly say the invites were skill based (Tlo, Huk...). GSL is a really really dumb example to compare Wc3 vs BW cos there are only very few korean Wc3 player playing Sc2. (essentially Moon, Lyn, Soccer and Check are the only one who switched who were somehow notable in Warcraft) Iem World finals had 2 Warcraft players in the top 4. Copenhagen Games had 2 Warcraft players in the top 4. You also have to note that the difference between BW and SC2 is much smaller than the diffenrence between Warcraft and BW and therefore the players needed a little bit more time to get used to SC2.Which is why I think we had much more BW players in the tournaments shortly after the game was published. Nowadays I dont think there is any difference between BW and WC3 players. All of them are playing the same game...
I don't want to really bother in this discussion, but to exclude the heavy warcraft 3 player count in early SC2 because they aren't as notable as Lyn or Moon is a pretty dumb argument (i.e. just a quick count, you skipped Maka, Zenio, Violet). By that logic you can really only look at the WC3 player results of people like Madfrog or Grubby since those are the "notables"...right now all the considered "WC3 pros" compose a lot of players who played it at 'some' competitive level (i.e. Kiwikaki). SC2 beta and early SC2 last September had a LOT of WC3 players (who aren't notable though) but still dominated the early scene before fading out. I would also go on to say that if you say BW was more poplular in Korea so their WC3 players aren't notable, BW was pretty much dead in Europe, so their BW players aren't "notable" either.
I should have included Violet sorry, but Maka or zenio were just some random Koren amateurs (to me at least, unless I am missing something in their wc3 history ^^)
I dunno what early Wc3 player count in the beta ur referring to :O (Korea ?) Iirc Susiria, EVE, Remind and Focus played sc2 in the beta, but all of them went back to warcraft or stopped playing.
the only players in the foreign scene that come to mind are madfrog and lucifron who went inactive by now. (lucifron is still laddering though)
I only referred to koreans wc3 players as "notable" to clarify how "unfair" the comparison BW<>WC3 in regards to Korea is. I probably should have worded that differently though ...
On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol.
I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU.
My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective?
Probably, but they're still human.
I give them a break. I also don't take everything they say as scripture. And I also enjoy their show.
It's possible to do all 3 at once. It's a good show that's not perfect and it features opinions of a group of 4 humans. Nothing more.
It's easy pal, you don't need to be super-human, just invite someone who really follows the EU scene.. not just US players who spent half the time whining about balance and who have no time to follow smaller tournaments.
Well the problem is that there's like... 1 progamer from the UK, and the rest are faily uncomfortable with English. Sure they can all speak decent English, but often times not very freely.
On April 25 2011 06:21 PhiLtheFisH wrote: What's up with all that eu nationialism? I mean, even ordinary nationalism is kind of retarded, but still maybe understandable (for some people), this on the other hand....
I think it's compensation for so much ignorance around here regarding the EU scene, rather than nationalism per se. I mean 90% of people picking Huk over HasuObs or the absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG saying that Kas would lose 3-0 Nada -- that made me lol -- and the legions of bots agreeing with them kinda was too much for some people -- me included, and I am not even from europe lol.
I think the "absolutely uninformed hosts of SotG" picking Nada had more to do with them loving Nada and less to do with their ignorance of EU.
My point is, if your opinion will affect so many people, shouldn't you make an effort to at least be objective?
Probably, but they're still human.
I give them a break. I also don't take everything they say as scripture. And I also enjoy their show.
It's possible to do all 3 at once. It's a good show that's not perfect and it features opinions of a group of 4 humans. Nothing more.
It's easy pal, you don't need to be super-human, just invite someone who really follows the EU scene.. not just US players who spent half the time whining about balance and who have no time to follow smaller tournaments.
Well the problem is that there's like... 1 progamer from the UK, and the rest are faily uncomfortable with English. Sure they can all speak decent English, but often times not very freely.
They don't need to be pro players.
They've already stated that they're not gonna bring in a cohost who's just some random master level guy, as it's a whole different thing when it comes to tournaments and pro level of play. Things work in the highest level that doesn't work on the ladder, and most stuff that works on the ladder doesn't work in pro level of play. TLO is a good choice though imo. He's very unbiased obviously, and he plays both zerg and terran back and forth, which balances out the protoss heavy panel
When I want to keep updated on players from other parts of the world, I look at the TLPD, and read the "tournament round-up" articles featured in the News section.
I don't really follow the EU scene but thanks to these amazing resources I have a good idea of Kas', Thorzain's , Hasu's, etc. skill level and playstyle.
EPT
