On March 29 2011 22:10 Cranberries wrote: Best 8 Koreans (IMO):
Nestea MVP MC LosirA MMA July San Alicia
Don't understand why MKP isnt on that list when MVP is. They are both insane players slumping.
MKP is still very talented and easily top5 in the world when he's in form.
Anyway you will see tomorrow!
MKP's unit control is slightly better, but MVP is superior in every other aspect IMO.
I think MarineKing's decision making/micro are second to none though I agree mvp is superior in every other aspect. MarineKing knows this as well considering in the finals he didn't even seem to try.
One 2-0 against Leenock was pretty much the only thing I saw out of MKP. MVP lost to some really good Protoss players, and he made up for it pretty well in the GSTL showing that he can play a very strong game against Tester and almost bringing it all back for IM against SlayerS.
Tester is by the worst Protoss in the GSL.. I honestly don't think that should be any indication. It still hurts my head when I think about the way he's been playing since s1
Did you watch his GSTL game? Both players played very beautifully. MVP also knocked out a couple other Protosses in the GSTL, though I forget which players.
I saw it and I thought it was a pretty good game yes, but compared to all the Protoss out there these days Tester is easily second/third tier. Same with Genius, who I've always been a fan of since he made macro Protoss work so well he has just not kept up with the newer players.
Keep in mind Tester has been on the cutting edge of PvX builds for a while. The now nerfed pylon/cannon block was his (thanks a lot, lol), and he was using colossi/phoenix PvT long before it was popular in the metagame (think back to some all-star tournament *name eludes me* where he won a great game vs Nada on LT)
Yeah he has done a lot for the race and is very inventive.. he's not always the best at performing them though. I loved him a lot in beta and he used to be very good but like I said above he just hasn't kept up with the newer players who are improving rapidly.
Agree x100. I'd be so happy if he started coaching. The concept of Tester's strategies with Alicia calibre control is scary.
On March 29 2011 22:21 Durp wrote: San was actually a good choice (if it had been chosen) given team World having 4 zergs.
His PvZ is absolutely BEAST: he's beaten NesTea and Sen without making a single colossus in either game, or winning with early pressure attacks. Reflect on the PvX matchup for a moment and take in how impressive that actually is.
There are a lot of protoss players not making colossus at the moment just watch some of the recent TSL games.
Yes, but how many of them are beating NesTea and Sen? My point was moreso that he's doing it, effectively, against the best zergs the game has to offer. + Show Spoiler +
carriers v Sen and archon toilet v Nestea? he wins for baller points alone
For foreign protoss beating koreans doing the same look at FXO. I dont get your point of it being so different as I said its part of the protoss play at the moment.
It's a real buzz-kill to read that so many posters are sadly complaining about the players that were not selected for Korea, instead of cheering for the Korean team that actually won. Whomever they would have selected could have won or could have lost. Same goes for the World Allstars. Last time I checked SC2 had not produced a Bonjwa (yet), so all you can say in my humble opinion: The Korean Team won, it was not a walkover and the World Allstars showed a solid performance.
MVP is a near-perfect player. He may not be on top of every aspect, but he has no obvious weakness. MKP may have the best unit control/micro in the world, and he is very decisive. But he has some weaknesses which is the main reason of him being less consistent.
On March 29 2011 22:15 Qaatar wrote: Ryung and Min should replace San and July.
Oh come on, stop drinking the Kool-Aid. You want to crown Min as a top 8 player after just 2 televised games? Ryung after 7? Really? Over people like HongUn and Rainbow who have appeared in every single GSL?
...because I said I don't judge on results, but on how impressive they played. All I see from July is macro that isn't as efficient as it could be, and questionable decision making. Results don't mean everything, especially in this volative as fuck game. Kas doesn't have very many results in offline tournaments either, but everyone knows his strength in play as pretty much the best T in Europe.
Granted, there's an inherent ability to perform live that is a huge factor, but i think Ryung and Min have proved that they can perform under pressure (GSTL).
But don't results mean everything when you're playing for money in a tourney? Pro-gamers get paid to play. They get paid to win too. And on the subject of what entertains fans, people have different tastes of what is entertaining and what is not.
Leaving Nestea till last was a good idea though, he's such a good clutch game player ... He wins nearly everything that can be considered "make or break."
I'm curious as to what foreigner lineup people would find optimal. It's pretty easy to name a solid Korea lineup since the scene is so... contained, I guess you could say. But the foreigner scene is all over the place.
I'd definitely have WhiteRa and Sen in there, and seeing Dimaga's performance today, I'd have him in there too. Jinro really should be there since he always looked very solid and definitely had an off-day today.
On March 29 2011 22:25 edwrodrig wrote: My Korea team : -IMNestea -IMMVP -IMLosira -Slayers_MMA -Slayers_Alicia -ST_Ace -oGsMC -oGsSupernova
word probably bomber or mkp instead of ace
Ace doesn't impress me all that much TBH. I'd throw Bomber or Ryung in Ace's place.
Unless Bomber was suffering from a serious case of nerves when Ryung played him, Bomber looked COMPLETELY outclassed by Ryung.
I don't think that it was nerves. Bomber pulled out an INSANELY epic base race against MMA the match before, and Ryung came in and just crushed his soul. Maybe Bomber was tired? Either way, Ryung is SO impressive. If Mvp didn't surprise him with BC's, that game was Ryung's to win.
On March 29 2011 22:25 edwrodrig wrote: My Korea team : -IMNestea -IMMVP -IMLosira -Slayers_MMA -Slayers_Alicia -ST_Ace -oGsMC -oGsSupernova
word probably bomber or mkp instead of ace
Ace doesn't impress me all that much TBH. I'd throw Bomber or Ryung in Ace's place.
Unless Bomber was suffering from a serious case of nerves when Ryung played him, Bomber looked COMPLETELY outclassed by Ryung.
I don't think that it was nerves. Bomber pulled out an INSANELY epic base race against MMA the match before, and Ryung came in and just crushed his soul. Maybe Bomber was tired? Either way, Ryung is SO impressive. If Mvp didn't surprise him with BC's, that game was Ryung's to win.
I really felt like MMA totally had the game in the bag, but didn't handle Bomber's base trade attempt properly at all. Indeed, MMA said in a post-match interview that he got excited at the prospect of an all-kill and made some huge errors in judgment. Just food for thought
On March 29 2011 22:15 Qaatar wrote: Ryung and Min should replace San and July.
Oh come on, stop drinking the Kool-Aid. You want to crown Min as a top 8 player after just 2 televised games? Ryung after 7? Really? Over people like HongUn and Rainbow who have appeared in every single GSL?
...because I said I don't judge on results, but on how impressive they played. All I see from July is macro that isn't as efficient as it could be, and questionable decision making. Results don't mean everything, especially in this volative as fuck game. Kas doesn't have very many results in offline tournaments either, but everyone knows his strength in play as pretty much the best T in Europe.
Granted, there's an inherent ability to perform live that is a huge factor, but i think Ryung and Min have proved that they can perform under pressure (GSTL).
We may have to just disagree when it comes to July. He knows what he can do with any number of drones, so when he builds them, it feels like he has a plan already. July vs Moonglade today, showed pretty good decision making, roaches when he needed them, drones to follow up, roaches for the win. Also, he's laying a pretty impressive foundation for some mindgames. The guy can attack at any time, and fast. Try preparing for that. Had he busted Jinro early, we would have had pages of people going, "LOLOLOL saw that coming a mile away, Jinro should have been prepared." Jinro built the wall but July flew over it earlier than Z usually comes in with mutas.
On March 29 2011 22:15 Qaatar wrote: Ryung and Min should replace San and July. I don't want to judge based on results, but off of playing ability from games. While I love July, he hasn't been impressive at all, and San is solid but not spectacularly good.
Ryung's TvT and TvP are both extremely solid, and Min is just a macro monster with a good head for strategy. Both just qualified for Code A, btw. I don't think half of the guys on this list could do that (although, a good amount of luck is involved due to the inherent volatility of the game). :D
I call a troll on this one...
Nope...stop looking at results and look at his playstyle. It's not sustainable, and unless he evolves, who knows? You honestly think I'm trolling when I just typed two paragraphs on WHY a couple of other Koreans have impressed me further? How about looking past one sentence?
Edit: this is not an appeal to authority, but many other progamers have criticized July as well. They must all be jealous and/or trolling?
No matter his style, saying that he hasn't performed impressive given the opponents he's taken down and his 2nd place in GSL, is just silly.
Maybe his style is gonna be figured out and he'll have to come up with soemthing new, but that is just as true for oGsMC as it is for July. Now if you have decided that MC hasn't impressed you either I guess you are just impossible to impress.
On March 29 2011 22:34 Zorgaz wrote: Seriously 4 terrans in this. Not one of them won a single game.
Why does the terrans seem to falter in all the major tourneys?! Just check latest IEM or GSL...
The only place terrans seem to excel at is the top of the ladder xd.
Steady up Terrans. Show them the Metal Fist!
Sure i can enjoy ZvP, ZvZ and PvP, to some extent. But TvT is seriously the most entertaining mirror. And TvZ is my favorite matchup.
Maybe Goody and Kas will change that perception for you...and watch out in the next GSL. The new wave of Terrans like MMA and Ryung will be crushing face.
On March 29 2011 21:51 Pughy wrote: Well I guess a consolation prize is that if the World AllStars were to have a real fight with the Korean's, the Koreans would get beat the fuck up
You kidding? NaDa is ripped as fuck, and NesTea is ridiculously tall. It wouldn't be that lopsided
It'd be a pretty fair fight.
Of course it wouldn't be a fair fight. Look at the Korean team MKP, anypro...Foreigners got Dimaga, Jinro, TT1.
DId you see that picture? Nestea towered over everyone. And no, I don't think it was perspective. So Dimaga and Jinro will take Nada and Nestea. Everyone else will free for all.
On March 29 2011 22:29 Piski wrote: Some pro korean fans are complaining that this wasn't the best korean lineup. Yes I agree there was few players that was missing but the same goes for word allstar team. At least I would definately change few names there.
Tbh I don't even care how the result ended up. I just love the fact that it was such a great series and nobody can say that foreigners are a walkover.
They have no reason to complain when a player most people wouldn't have put on their own list of top foreigners (TT1) won 2 games.
That's a representation of what I would like to see in this community, but people get too carried away with this koreans vs foreigners shit... I don't think players on either side actually care all that much about that... sigh
The showmatch was called "Korea vs. the World"....
So what? Does that make it okay to player bashing now? Just take a look in this thread if you don't know what I'm talking about...
Get the fuck over yourself, this is a sport. I bet if you saw someone paying out Kobe you wouldnt be pissed off about it. Why? Since its all passion. I fucking hated Korea tonight, but i still respect every single one of them, its all part of the fun and the passion. Its not mean, its not rude, it what a fucking world championship is about, them vs us
Get the fuck out... that's not the attitude we want around here... Seriously? "I fucking hated Korea tonight"? Seriously dude? I cannot name one instance where this kind of attitude would be acceptable...
EPT
It feels July outshine MC this lil tourny? ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/jpXH1.jpg)
