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[TSL] Ro32 Day2 - Page 331

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Upset about the results? Want to vent your rage? Use this instead
S.O.L.I.D.
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States792 Posts
March 20 2011 22:22 GMT
#6601
On March 21 2011 07:18 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Show nested quote +
Awesome, just 1 week until Mondragon plays. So hyped for that.


Mondragon? =O

I didn't see him in the player list... can you elaborate?


He placed second in TSL 2 so he's playing. Not much to elaborate, you must have just missed him in the player list.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
March 20 2011 22:22 GMT
#6602
On March 21 2011 07:20 Doppelganger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2011 07:16 Numy wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:13 hugman wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:02 hugman wrote:
@MYM.ClouD:
On Taldarim Morrow scouted the 3-rax and saw all the geysers
I don't remember how much he scouted on Crevasse but probably something similar

It wasn't as blind as you make it out to be

It was blind because you always make the 3 barracks wall if you open FE, then you follow up with any of the common FE build orders. It was blind decision and it turned out right but if Jinro decided to open marine blueflame hellions (like he did for example vs idra in their most recent games) he would have had a build order win. I think these games were terrible and didn't show 10% of the awesomeness this bo3 could have had.

I disagree but w/e we'll never know
That bust in G1 hit before blue flame would've been done, and Morrow had an assload of speedlings


So the Pro Cloud doesn't know his timings well enough to know when the bust would have hit in relation to FE build?

EDIT:

On March 21 2011 07:16 DusTerr wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:09 Mackh wrote:
On March 21 2011 06:52 DwmC_Foefen wrote:
When are the next games btw?


They are no more games planned, only a bunch of useless so-called pro+ Show Spoiler +
cheesers
-gamers and the gratos protoss fighting for some cash, I'am not watching this.

Mc wins because he knows 2 things that no other player left in the tournament knows how to
- he knows how to change his playstyle once in a while
- he knows how to maccro.

Next time invite some real maccro player thx


a majority of the players were not invites, they qualified through the open tournaments. The only player you actually mention (specifically saying he macros) was one of the invited players.


There were 16 invites and 16 qualified through tournaments. So there is no majority.


If I am not mistaken there were 13 invites 16 players from the open Qualifiers and the three best players out of TSL 2


You are correct, I completely forgot about the 3 seedings. Let me change that. Sorry.
Kojaimea
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom277 Posts
March 20 2011 22:22 GMT
#6603
Brilliant games again. I didn't think i'd have my attention held for like 3 and a half hours two days in a row, but you did it!
The riverbed, dried-up, half full of leaves. Us, listening to a river in the trees.
Aflixion
Profile Joined August 2010
United States191 Posts
March 20 2011 22:22 GMT
#6604
On March 21 2011 07:15 MYM.ClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2011 07:13 hugman wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:02 hugman wrote:
@MYM.ClouD:
On Taldarim Morrow scouted the 3-rax and saw all the geysers
I don't remember how much he scouted on Crevasse but probably something similar

It wasn't as blind as you make it out to be

It was blind because you always make the 3 barracks wall if you open FE, then you follow up with any of the common FE build orders. It was blind decision and it turned out right but if Jinro decided to open marine blueflame hellions (like he did for example vs idra in their most recent games) he would have had a build order win. I think these games were terrible and didn't show 10% of the awesomeness this bo3 could have had.

I disagree but w/e we'll never know
That bust in G1 hit before blue flame would've been done, and Morrow had an assload of speedlings

That bust in G1 hits at the same time you get blueflame on hellions. You lose 2 barracks but you hold everything without losing scvs. Again, this series was totally disappointing and I really don't respect Morrow decision to blindly cheese in g1 and g3 in such an important tournament.


Sorry, but Morrow didn't blindly cheese in g1 and g3. He put down the baneling nest AFTER he scouted the CC first build in both games. That's a response designed to punish a risky build, not a blind cheese.
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
March 20 2011 22:23 GMT
#6605
On March 21 2011 07:15 MYM.ClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2011 07:13 hugman wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:02 hugman wrote:
@MYM.ClouD:
On Taldarim Morrow scouted the 3-rax and saw all the geysers
I don't remember how much he scouted on Crevasse but probably something similar

It wasn't as blind as you make it out to be

It was blind because you always make the 3 barracks wall if you open FE, then you follow up with any of the common FE build orders. It was blind decision and it turned out right but if Jinro decided to open marine blueflame hellions (like he did for example vs idra in their most recent games) he would have had a build order win. I think these games were terrible and didn't show 10% of the awesomeness this bo3 could have had.

I disagree but w/e we'll never know
That bust in G1 hit before blue flame would've been done, and Morrow had an assload of speedlings

That bust in G1 hits at the same time you get blueflame on hellions. You lose 2 barracks but you hold everything without losing scvs. Again, this series was totally disappointing and I really don't respect Morrow decision to blindly cheese in g1 and g3 in such an important tournament.


The third game was questionable. I was looking at the production tab and praying for drones. Then all those lings came... In the deciding match, cross-positions, I really don't get why you would want to rely on your opponent to not defend a bust when you've done it in the two previous games.

But game 1, in a best of three, I think was really smart. Jinro didn't see it coming at all. Don't get why you would ever lose respect for him because of that. StarCraft is a game of hidden information. You have to bluff a certain percentage, otherwise you won't win as much as you should.
Hello=)
nart
Profile Joined March 2011
97 Posts
March 20 2011 22:23 GMT
#6606
A win is a win. Morrow is a smarter player today. A smarter player that wins games is a better player.

Morrow, you deserved it.
DonaldLee
Profile Joined August 2010
586 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-20 22:27:46
March 20 2011 22:23 GMT
#6607
The continuing trend of bashing players for winning is an embarrassment to us all. Is everyone so psychologically fragile that they can't handle a loss from one of their favorite players without making lame excuses and attacking their opponents with both baseless and flat out false insults?

Huk didn't lose because of lag or PvP. He was outplayed in game one, and was less prepared than Hasu in game two on a map he likely has more experience on, seeing as how he plays in the GSL.

Morrow can't macro? What? Are these the first Morrow games people have watched since he switched to Zerg? Morrow is one of the most terrifying macro players in the world, and I doubt he'd have any trouble keeping up with Jinro had the games fallen that way.
Highways
Profile Joined July 2005
Australia6106 Posts
March 20 2011 22:24 GMT
#6608
On March 21 2011 06:40 MYM.ClouD wrote:
Baneling bust off 2 bases is absolutely retarded and overpowered against any FE build who doesn't include fast hellions or fast siege tanks (which is a shit build anyway except for holding and punishing baneling bust). It turns the early game into a coinflip. People calling Morrow "hyper aggressive" or thinking he played well are wrong because anyone, even a silver league player, can pull it off. This just shows how this game is too much about chances and all in and not as skill centered as WC3 and SCBW. I'm very disappointed at SC2.

User was warned for this post


Completely agree that SC2 is a massive coin flip atm.

But to be fair ZvZ in SCBW was just as bad or even worse.

User was warned for this post
#1 Terran hater
Qaatar
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
March 20 2011 22:24 GMT
#6609
On March 21 2011 07:18 mastergriggy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2011 07:14 Qaatar wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:02 hugman wrote:
@MYM.ClouD:
On Taldarim Morrow scouted the 3-rax and saw all the geysers
I don't remember how much he scouted on Crevasse but probably something similar

It wasn't as blind as you make it out to be

It was blind because you always make the 3 barracks wall if you open FE, then you follow up with any of the common FE build orders. It was blind decision and it turned out right but if Jinro decided to open marine blueflame hellions (like he did for example vs idra in their most recent games) he would have had a build order win. I think these games were terrible and didn't show 10% of the awesomeness this bo3 could have had.


So I guess you're in the Incontrol/Idra camp of, "Julyzerg's style is so last month, cheesy, and requires no skill to play."

Except it wins games (got July to the GSL finals), and that's the point? An overwhelming majority of SC2 right now is all about BO wins anyways. No one has the game figured out enough to effectively counter anything in a split second.


BitbyBit.prime's style won games too...I'm sure you and the rest of us would love seeing every Terran do that every game.

It's just like everything else. Let it run it's course, people find counters, and they go out of style. Morrow should be congratulated for finding something that caught Kinro off guard and showing that Starcraft is just as much a mental game as anything else.



...and that's exactly my point? I don't care about what politically correct players always say about "showing good games." All of these guys are playing professionally to win money. Yes, in the near future, this high eco aggression style from Zerg will be figured out, but until then, it's as viable as any other "strategy."

Perhaps MorroW did it more blindly than July, or perhaps they both know some timings (perhaps even 5 seconds before blue flame). I haven't seen the replays yet, but it might not be as blind as you think.
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
March 20 2011 22:24 GMT
#6610
On March 21 2011 07:22 Aflixion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2011 07:15 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:13 hugman wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:02 hugman wrote:
@MYM.ClouD:
On Taldarim Morrow scouted the 3-rax and saw all the geysers
I don't remember how much he scouted on Crevasse but probably something similar

It wasn't as blind as you make it out to be

It was blind because you always make the 3 barracks wall if you open FE, then you follow up with any of the common FE build orders. It was blind decision and it turned out right but if Jinro decided to open marine blueflame hellions (like he did for example vs idra in their most recent games) he would have had a build order win. I think these games were terrible and didn't show 10% of the awesomeness this bo3 could have had.

I disagree but w/e we'll never know
That bust in G1 hit before blue flame would've been done, and Morrow had an assload of speedlings

That bust in G1 hits at the same time you get blueflame on hellions. You lose 2 barracks but you hold everything without losing scvs. Again, this series was totally disappointing and I really don't respect Morrow decision to blindly cheese in g1 and g3 in such an important tournament.


Sorry, but Morrow didn't blindly cheese in g1 and g3. He put down the baneling nest AFTER he scouted the CC first build in both games. That's a response designed to punish a risky build, not a blind cheese.


That's not what he means...

It's possible to counter banelings even if you have gone fast CC. Morrow couldn't really know if Jinro was doing this or not. Hence it's a gamble on Morrow's part.
Hello=)
DaCruise
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark2457 Posts
March 20 2011 22:24 GMT
#6611
On March 21 2011 07:15 MYM.ClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2011 07:13 hugman wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:02 hugman wrote:
@MYM.ClouD:
On Taldarim Morrow scouted the 3-rax and saw all the geysers
I don't remember how much he scouted on Crevasse but probably something similar

It wasn't as blind as you make it out to be

It was blind because you always make the 3 barracks wall if you open FE, then you follow up with any of the common FE build orders. It was blind decision and it turned out right but if Jinro decided to open marine blueflame hellions (like he did for example vs idra in their most recent games) he would have had a build order win. I think these games were terrible and didn't show 10% of the awesomeness this bo3 could have had.

I disagree but w/e we'll never know
That bust in G1 hit before blue flame would've been done, and Morrow had an assload of speedlings

That bust in G1 hits at the same time you get blueflame on hellions. You lose 2 barracks but you hold everything without losing scvs. Again, this series was totally disappointing and I really don't respect Morrow decision to blindly cheese in g1 and g3 in such an important tournament.


First: game 2 was absolutely amazing from both players

Second: The only one that 100% knows whether he was in the blind or not is Morrow. Maybe he has been watching a lot of Jinro games and builds lately. Maybe he has encountered a similar opening from terrans a ton of times before.
I´m 99% sure he knew EXACTLY what Jinro was doing
onPHYRE
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria923 Posts
March 20 2011 22:25 GMT
#6612
People need to stop flaming MorroW for beating Jinro in this way... He did what he had to do to win.
Livin' this life like it was written.
phisku
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Belgium864 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-20 22:25:52
March 20 2011 22:25 GMT
#6613
aaaah morrow allways putting the abusives strat in the spot light, first 5 rax reaper taking idra then baneling bust taking jinro.
If i'd play zerg i would use it as much as possible before any nerf ^^ like i did with the 5 rax reaper.
Promises
Profile Joined February 2004
Netherlands1821 Posts
March 20 2011 22:25 GMT
#6614
Indeed BitByBit's style won him games... but i wouldnt blame him for that, I'd blame his opponents. It would not mean I'd like his playstyle, but I do not blame him for using something that is apparantly effective against those people. Now, I think its fairly rediculous to compare Morrow to BitByeBit, as Morrow has played a shitton of straight up good games in a variety of tournaments. He just had a counter to Jinro's build, and used it. In the end, a great player tho he is, Jinro can only blame himself for losing to it (as I'm sure he does, he's a great guy). Don't get all butthurt because the guy you (and I for that matter) wanted to see advance didnt make it, it happens.
I'm a man of my word, and that word is "unreliable".
PlaGuE_R
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
France1151 Posts
March 20 2011 22:26 GMT
#6615
please stop bringing july zerg into this, that guy is terrible plain and simple. he got to the finals through an easy bracket by stringing 6 pools and all ins and got facerolled the second he faced an opponent that doesnt crumble to all ins.

Jinro should have learned from Game 1 and gone for siege tech instead of trying to rush to medivacs with reactors.

MorroW's play was lackluster, 1 dimensional and boring which is why i don't like watching him play. reaper rush, baneling bust...wow.
TLO FIGHTING | me all in, he drone drone drone, me win - SK.MC | JINROLLED! | KraToss for the win
Kvothe
Profile Joined September 2010
201 Posts
March 20 2011 22:27 GMT
#6616
I think Jinro just hasn't had as much practice lately against the two base baneling busts, combine that with poor scouting and he really didn't have much of a chance. You rarely see Korean zergs play the style that Morrow showed, except July/Kyrix.

Disappointing for Jinro, but I'm sure he will be practicing against that now.
dunc
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands1105 Posts
March 20 2011 22:27 GMT
#6617
On March 21 2011 07:26 PlaGuE_R wrote:
please stop bringing july zerg into this, that guy is terrible plain and simple. he got to the finals through an easy bracket by stringing 6 pools and all ins and got facerolled the second he faced an opponent that doesnt crumble to all ins.

Jinro should have learned from Game 1 and gone for siege tech instead of trying to rush to medivacs with reactors.

MorroW's play was lackluster, 1 dimensional and boring which is why i don't like watching him play. reaper rush, baneling bust...wow.


What a horrible post.

Yeah man, July is bad. LOL.

User was warned for this post
butch
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium684 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-20 22:28:22
March 20 2011 22:28 GMT
#6618
On March 21 2011 07:26 PlaGuE_R wrote:


MorroW's play was lackluster, 1 dimensional and boring which is why i don't like watching him play. reaper rush, baneling bust...wow.

guess he got second @ assembly with banebust only...
Marauder Die Die
mastergriggy
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1312 Posts
March 20 2011 22:28 GMT
#6619
On March 21 2011 07:24 Qaatar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2011 07:18 mastergriggy wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:14 Qaatar wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:02 hugman wrote:
@MYM.ClouD:
On Taldarim Morrow scouted the 3-rax and saw all the geysers
I don't remember how much he scouted on Crevasse but probably something similar

It wasn't as blind as you make it out to be

It was blind because you always make the 3 barracks wall if you open FE, then you follow up with any of the common FE build orders. It was blind decision and it turned out right but if Jinro decided to open marine blueflame hellions (like he did for example vs idra in their most recent games) he would have had a build order win. I think these games were terrible and didn't show 10% of the awesomeness this bo3 could have had.


So I guess you're in the Incontrol/Idra camp of, "Julyzerg's style is so last month, cheesy, and requires no skill to play."

Except it wins games (got July to the GSL finals), and that's the point? An overwhelming majority of SC2 right now is all about BO wins anyways. No one has the game figured out enough to effectively counter anything in a split second.


BitbyBit.prime's style won games too...I'm sure you and the rest of us would love seeing every Terran do that every game.

It's just like everything else. Let it run it's course, people find counters, and they go out of style. Morrow should be congratulated for finding something that caught Kinro off guard and showing that Starcraft is just as much a mental game as anything else.



...and that's exactly my point? I don't care about what politically correct players always say about "showing good games." All of these guys are playing professionally to win money. Yes, in the near future, this high eco aggression style from Zerg will be figured out, but until then, it's as viable as any other "strategy."

Perhaps MorroW did it more blindly than July, or perhaps they both know some timings (perhaps even 5 seconds before blue flame). I haven't seen the replays yet, but it might not be as blind as you think.


It wasn't blind really, but I don't think it's gonna work again. Whoever is playing Morrow next will probably put a bit more emphasis on scouting and had Jinro done that, Morrow would have been defeated.
Write your own song!
relyt
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1073 Posts
March 20 2011 22:28 GMT
#6620
Im so sad Jinro lost . Oh well I can still root for Tyler!
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